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Raider Ray
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.07.03 12:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
In my honest opinion as a pvp noobie is that there is practically no incentive to solo pvp apart from the adrenaline rush and the occasional loot (Which itself can be rare since its solo and that valuable targets are often guarded).
Maybe because the word "solo" pvp (solo player versus player) often implies a fair game between two individuals and 2 characters only, which is quite improbable considering that even solo players have alts scouting or doing logi for them.
So, a player could think:
- Due to the fact that losing ships means losing them for good, the amount of theorycrafting one needs to be involved in in order to suvive solo or in any out-of-station activity whatsoever can be so much that eve ends up being a numbers game and that's not everybody's cherry.
- Player gets a shiny little ship after doing missions(which imo is the worst pve content i've seen in a game) and he wants to experience some pvp. His shiny frigate gets popped, insurance convers a little part of it, noobie gets thrown off. He sees that his time investment of a few days explodes in seconds. Decides to be a carebear or quit.
- Player feels that just flying up to a miner and ganking him, thus taking his ship from existence does not feel satisfying or gratifying. It feels more like a gank, an activity which is usually frowned upon in other mmos.
TLDR:
Players may avoid solo pvp because:
- Mistakes are too punishing.
- Game is too complicated.
- Killing unaware players feels like ganking to them |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
940
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Posted - 2014.07.03 12:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Raider Ray wrote:TLDR:
Players may avoid solo pvp because:
- Mistakes are too punishing.
- Game is too complicated.
- Killing unaware players feels like ganking to them Agree, but other players love it for exactly the same reasons.
I'll also add that many corps, including my own, always honor 1v1s if agreed upon in advance. That's another way of finding 1v1s for a new soloist. Though I personally dislike arranged 1v1s, I prefer dealing with the risk of being blobbed. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7034
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 12:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
Personally, I don't play an MMO to "solo" anything (except a DED 10/10 'cause I'm greedy lol). I've been forced into Solo situations before (though until last week, never on this particular character before, I accidentally killed a Stratios with my Gila lol), won some, lost some.
I'm not trying to denigrate the great and skillful solo PVPrs in the game when I say this, but solo pvp doesn't excite me because i don't have a damn thing to prove to anyone in this video game lol. I see myself as a 'soldier' rather than a 'gladiator'.
Some people find it fun to know they are defeating (aka "are better than") another game player. I grew out of that phase when I was like 12 playing Karate Champ in the Mall Arcade. The fact that I suck at flying a space ship really has nothing to do with it, I suck at everything (according to current and past wives).
For me, it's like that with all pvp. I like to win/survive as much as the next guy, but I don't feel this burning need to undock and slaughter ships solo like many of my space-mates do. When I go on a corp or alliance roam or join a defense fleet, I'm more doing so to to help out my bros and to pay my 'space-dues" than I am to get epeen stroking killmails.
The only pvp I really like for the sake of liking it is Fleet Fights (aka 'blobbing') when it results in some kind of big tangible gain or memorable consequence. At the next fanfest I think i'm gonna get a Tat that is a picture of a monkey spamming "F1" 
Years ago when I was in (the original) Atlas Alliance I participated in the "Battle of C-J" where we took that system from it's long time owners, Red Alliance. THAT was fun to me. I was also in several big battles in the DRF/NC war and such. I used to FC 100 man fleets in Faction Warfare and was present in Tama the 1st time Pandemic Legion dropped capital ships on everyone.
THAT kind of epic "pvp" is what I like, small scale stuff is, well, small scale. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
47
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Posted - 2014.07.03 12:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Soloing is for masochists.
The entity which has the most DPS, most Logi power, most speed, and most EWAR has an overwhelming advantage. The easiest way to achieve this is to fly with friends. A soloist, even with links and boosts, is at a disadvantage. So if they don't carefully pick their engagement targets, or are engaged against their will, they will lose.
Most soloists (especially aspiring ones) find themselves losing more than winning. That is difficult to stomach, and many stop doing it as a result.
It is a natural response to persistent failure.
However, some of us accept that we are going to lose more fights than we win, and will probably lose the ISK war over a long enough timeline too. What keeps us coming back is the few instances where you win despite the odds. Few things match that satisfaction, and the glory doesn't have to be shared.
Yesterday I went 3 v 1 in my Scythe Fleet Issue and won for the first time. The adrenaline surge kept me awake all night. Can't wait for the next one.
lol
There are thousands and thousands of solo pilots who win more than lose, have been doing it for years. They are not the ones to come on forums to cry about "solo PVP is dead/impossible/links/plex prices/grrgoons/learning implants/clone costs", nor do they give a **** about their killboards- for these people the whole point behind flying out is to compete, and ultimately win.
Reason for not flying solo, like for most things in EVE, is irrational fear for imaginary space pixels combined with low self esteem and confidence. |
Raider Ray
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.07.03 12:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quote:
lol
There are thousands and thousands of solo pilots who win more than lose, have been doing it for years. They are not the ones to come on forums to cry about "solo PVP is dead/impossible/links/plex prices/grrgoons/learning implants/clone costs", nor do they give a **** about their killboards- for these people the whole point behind flying out is to compete, and ultimately win.
Reason for not flying solo, like for most things in EVE, is irrational fear for imaginary space pixels combined with low self esteem and confidence.
I dont wanna start a fight but here it goes,
Those imaginary pixels you talk about trigger real emotions in the form of excitement, sadness, adrenaline rush to name a few, just like any hobby or activity.
These emotions along with the fact that playing pixels involve real life time investment to get from point A to point B in this game, make it more that enough to justify being a PVE carebear if thats what makes a person happy. To make it more clear, if a player feels nothing from losing a titan which takes tremendous dedication and time to achieve, then in all due respect that's an indication of sociopathic behavior. And no offence by saying this but the way you expressed your as quoted above shows just that, combined with low self esteem and confidence. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
47
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Posted - 2014.07.03 12:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Raider Ray wrote:Quote:
lol
There are thousands and thousands of solo pilots who win more than lose, have been doing it for years. They are not the ones to come on forums to cry about "solo PVP is dead/impossible/links/plex prices/grrgoons/learning implants/clone costs", nor do they give a **** about their killboards- for these people the whole point behind flying out is to compete, and ultimately win.
Reason for not flying solo, like for most things in EVE, is irrational fear for imaginary space pixels combined with low self esteem and confidence.
I dont wanna start a fight but here it goes, Those imaginary pixels you talk about trigger real emotions in the form of excitement, sadness, adrenaline rush to name a few, just like any hobby or activity. These emotions along with the fact that playing pixels involve real life time investment to get from point A to point B in this game, make it more that enough to justify being a PVE carebear if thats what makes a person happy. To make it more clear, if a player feels nothing from losing a titan which takes tremendous dedication and time to achieve, then in all due respect that's an indication of sociopathic behavior. And no offence by saying this but the way you expressed your opinion as quoted above shows just that, combined with low self esteem and confidence.
Of course they trigger emotions, that's why EVE is over ten years old, but I was talking about one specific, irrational one of them gaining control over your actions.
Perhaps it's easier to think of the fact that EVE is a game, and even in the game terms you are never losing anything irreplaceable (well, except those who possess tourney prize ships... some also fight in them btw) , or even "dying" as we're immortal capsuleers- EVE is like a parachute. Parachute allows you to experience free fall without dying, but only if you let go of your fear and jump. Solo combat lets you experience intensive fight against another person, without really hurting anyone or any property.
But only if you let go of your fear and fight.
On an unrelated note, one really important thing to realise for an aspiring solo pilot is that 99% of the time you can indeed control the outcome of the fight. And in the rare occasions when dying was not in your hands, it's ok to lose, no sad. In essence you are fighting yourself, in a never-ending battle to become better. immediately after getting UNFAIRLY BLOBBED by 79 PL T3 titans with 4 OGBs and neutral logi carriers every pilot feels a moment of rage and everything is the fault of everyone else, but once you calm down you realise you made a small error somewhere along the way.
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Pepper Solette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
421
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Posted - 2014.07.03 12:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:In the end, if you decide to play solo, remember:
You are a hunter.
A predator.
You should move like one and act like one.
Plan your approach as well as you plan your battle. Planning the approach will not be time consuming as you become more experienced.
You should know your prey well: when they are active, where are they active, how many of them you can expect....
Patience is the best virtue in EVE. Smart writing and advice.
I used to solo out of Mara. I pirated off the Piekura gate and tried to hit as much as i could purely for the lols. But by watching the guys that would sit in the top belt and pretend to rat, whilst they had a fleet of friends sitting in the next system, i soon learned who and what i could kill.
After a while i got braver and started to scout down the Hasama-Mushikegi pipe. Sometimes i could get a guy or two, but other times i got smashed. I will admit though that having a scout on the second screen saved my ass more than once through there. Whether i am still classed as a solo player according to a purist i neither know or care. That was solo enough to me.
Solo can be awesome fun as the achievement is yours alone. But i rather like the small gang stuff as you are sharing the highs and lows with others.
-áMiko Sunji:-á "There is no better way to find out if you can swim, than swimming for your life."
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Tricia Killnu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2014.07.03 13:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
Risk
My experience leans towards seeing that people are more risk averse than risk takers.
Solo PVP is alot of risk. This character does not do alot of solo, mostly scouting when she was in pvp corps for other people.
But in FW you are more likely to run across a solo PVP fight than you would in null.
All the same it does feel better knowing your more likely to win with a gang of 10 to 20. But getting a fight during such an op is harder.
Flying solo and randomly hitting gates or sitting at a gate waiting for a solo to jump into you does still happen, though not as frequent as I would like.
Yes flying solo is for masochists. But Pain can be quite pleasurable in the right circumstance
Sometimes you just have to realized you undocked and you suck. . . |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
764
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Posted - 2014.07.03 13:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
It comes down to "Why do anything solo when I can do it with friends"
Sure, burning around solo can be fun, but, burning around with a few friends on voice is more fun, plus then it is not just you overestimating the power of the rifter.....although, this increases the chance that someone is ss'ing, streaming, or recording it, or will otherwise remember it in future.....so, on 2nd thoughts, fly solo, the ooopses are all private then :)
Fluffy Bunny Pic! |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
4136
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Posted - 2014.07.03 13:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
As long as you count the ship you undock in already lost, you're good to go.
For me though it takes some whiskey as well. But the guys who were talking about the 'rush' weren't kidding. Sometimes adrenalin burns right through my drunkeness! |
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1353
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Posted - 2014.07.03 13:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Solo has no point. I like it for the fights themselves, but it's an utterly pointless and costly actitivy. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
944
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Posted - 2014.07.03 13:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Solo has no point. I like it for the fights themselves, but it's an utterly pointless and costly actitivy. Such as playing videogames? |
Jenni LaCroix
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.07.03 13:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
So far some interesting answers, but many of which I knew were coming "solo not fun, because much more fun to play with friends, etc etc"
I have to correct the above phrase. Have the people that state solo is no fun, actually tried it out? But for real, not just throwing 1-2 fail fits into the meat grinder and then "ah screw this crap, it sucks", and bugger off to only continue play with "friends".
I do both, but I must say, I like somewhat more to play solo, nothing against my buddies but, I personally, maybe am to sentimental, but constantly flying in a group of 3-4 guys to kill 1 person, sometimes 2, gets so boring. I had 4 v 1 encounters in solo that I actually won, and killing brawling with an incursus while flying one myself, is just so much more fun than flying and picking those fights you know you will win anyway.
Don't know if people know what I mean, but perhaps some people do understand. Still, the point is what discourages it and so far I have seen some interesting answers. |
Raider Ray
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 13:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Solo has no point. I like it for the fights themselves, but it's an utterly pointless and costly actitivy. Such as playing videogames?
Would you elaborate on what non income earning type of activity is considered worthwhile? |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
944
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Posted - 2014.07.03 13:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Raider Ray wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Solo has no point. I like it for the fights themselves, but it's an utterly pointless and costly actitivy. Such as playing videogames? Would you elaborate on what non income earning type of activity is considered worthwhile? For me? Man, that's a long list! You'll excuse me if I give just a few examples:
Sex.
Eating.
Drinking.
Pissing & shitting.
Shitposting.
Singing.
Dancing.
Going to the beach.
Actually, gotta go to the beach just now.  |
Remiel Pollard
The Vigilance Institute
3734
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Posted - 2014.07.03 14:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Raider Ray wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Solo has no point. I like it for the fights themselves, but it's an utterly pointless and costly actitivy. Such as playing videogames? Would you elaborate on what non income earning type of activity is considered worthwhile? For me? Man, that's a long list! You'll excuse me if I give just a few examples: Sex. Eating. Drinking. Pissing & shitting. Shitposting. Singing. Dancing. Going to the beach. Actually, gotta go to the beach just now.
You forgot channel surfing.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7036
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 14:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Raider Ray wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Solo has no point. I like it for the fights themselves, but it's an utterly pointless and costly actitivy. Such as playing videogames? Would you elaborate on what non income earning type of activity is considered worthwhile?
pvp?
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Jenni LaCroix
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.07.03 14:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Another thing that I am curious about is what people think regarding the "scores" in this game. Ok, we know by know that CCP for some reason, has no own killboards, and third party killboards are used. Some record some random useless 5 mio isk POS module as a kill, other killboards do for some reason not record epic solo kills, and so on...
So what do people look at in terms of kill boards? Just kills ? So I go and grind as many POSes as possible and then I am considered to be with the elite with the top ranks? So how does the scoring work here? I am sure many people do not care about scores and just enjoy the game but let's be honest, it's nice to have a great killboard, but what makes it great? POS module kills by the thousands ? This I am very curious about, and why CCP does not make its own killboard goes beyond my knowledge as well. Why make kill reports then? If often you are the top damage dealer and you do not even get the kill, and some 3rd party killboard posts it (or not as is often Battleclinic's case), so CCP might as well make their own. |
Magormor
Neon Incorporated
404 Alliance Not Found
20
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Posted - 2014.07.03 14:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
What disscoureges me...
Lets take this as a base example:
It is often hard enough to fight 1v4 in relatively matched ships. Like 1 T1 Cruiser, vs 3 T1 Cruiser + Frig.
EWAR
But when the 4 bring an arbitrator, and you are in a gunship, or 3 kiting ships and a Keres, or Kitsune....you see the trend.
Dedicated Ewar will always screw up solo bad, because 100% of the EWAR is on the only ship that would have a chance of removing the EWAR.
Logi
Sometimes the locals know you, and know you are solo. Yet then they form up the 4 man with a Logi. As a solo pilot you don't have the DPS to break a logis reps on others and if he is at least a decent logi he will be protected always.
Links
I don't fly with links, and when I face a group that brings links to kill me it is a pain. Not only am I outnumbered but each ships performance would exceed mine. This can be circumvented if you can lure the 4 man gang out of the system they have links set up in. So it is by far not as bad as the other 2 listed. Also if I did start bringing links it would even the fight a bit more.
Yet for some reason I still solo PVP some days. The feeling of winning a 4v1 is great.
For people who say solo is pointless I disagree. When You fly with 3 other people it can be hard to get a fight. People dont want to engage in "Fair" fights often. When you fly solo you are basically guaranteeing that you will get a fight. Everyone wants to kill a solo guy because you are very engageable! |
Remiel Pollard
The Vigilance Institute
3737
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 14:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jenni LaCroix wrote:Another thing that I am curious about is what people think regarding the "scores" in this game. Ok, we know by know that CCP for some reason, has no own killboards, and third party killboards are used. Some record some random useless 5 mio isk POS module as a kill, other killboards do for some reason not record epic solo kills, and so on...
So what do people look at in terms of kill boards? Just kills ? So I go and grind as many POSes as possible and then I am considered to be with the elite with the top ranks? So how does the scoring work here? I am sure many people do not care about scores and just enjoy the game but let's be honest, it's nice to have a great killboard, but what makes it great? POS module kills by the thousands ? This I am very curious about, and why CCP does not make its own killboard goes beyond my knowledge as well. Why make kill reports then? If often you are the top damage dealer and you do not even get the kill, and some 3rd party killboard posts it (or not as is often Battleclinic's case), so CCP might as well make their own.
I used to have a teacher, Mr Brocco, he was my business teacher in 10th grade. He told me once, if you're keeping score, it's because you feel like you need to. When you're actually doing well, though, and you feel like you're achieving something, you won't feel like you need to.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
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Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union
The Predictables
892
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Posted - 2014.07.03 14:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
I'm going to be flat out honest with you. I suck at pvp, I need lots of friends.
You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam.-á |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1356
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 14:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
Same things discourage me from solo PvP as from group PvP: its pointlessness and boredom in EVE. In other games I can either acquire items and/or fun in PvP. EVE version of PvP is exactly the opposite of "fun" term and losing ships isn't exactly fun either. |
Bucklin Fondue
Newbs Fighting Back
45
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Posted - 2014.07.03 14:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Well I'm just a 12 mil SP pilot and only account but I love doing solo fights. Granted my kill board is abysmal but it's just to much fun to care about that. But isk is my biggest obstacle, I just can't afford to fly the ships, modules and implants others do. But it feels that much better when I do win one. |
Remiel Pollard
The Vigilance Institute
3737
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Posted - 2014.07.03 14:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Same things discourage me from solo PvP as from group PvP: its pointlessness and boredom in EVE. In other games I can either acquire items and/or fun in PvP. EVE version of PvP is exactly the opposite of "fun" term and losing ships isn't exactly fun either.
EVE isn't other games, and permaloss is one of its core tenets. You will lose ships in PVE as well and never get them back.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
581
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
When I want to solo I play Silent Hunter -- I play eve to fly in a gang with friends. |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
311
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Solos fine people are just bad and want free wins.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Serene Repose
1422
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'd like to preface my remarks with a lengthy list of my enviable qualifications before I address this issue. Also, I'd like to present my copious provenance as a computer gamer so all will understand I'm not a poser pretending to have expertise in an area with which I have but a cursory connection.
However, I have no such list or qualifictions. Ain't that a beeyatch?
I don't like to PvP 'cause I'm bored to the bone with PvP. I began with waterballoons and mudballs with my four brothers as targets - moved into 17 years of various sports girls just aren't supposed to play as they mess with the menstrual cycle (not a myth, btw), and capped that with 12 years of tournament chess.
To tell you the truth, I'm fried with beating opponents into submission and robbing them of all they have. Believe it or not, even this can get old. But, you kids, keep on enjoying yourselves. If you work fast you may have a hope to match my trail of wanton destruction and glorious success on the field and off.
TYVM Have a nice day.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Thomas Abernathy
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
69
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Posted - 2014.07.03 16:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
There is no "Solo PvP" in EvE...
But good luck trying....
"Fighting CCD since 2139" |
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
70
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Posted - 2014.07.03 16:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:A lot of people try solo PVP. They quickly realize, however, that CCP has decided they don't really care for it much and have been changing the combat mechanics over the years to discourage it. At this time, it's just not worth the trouble to do. And that's a shame as I like a little one on one every once in a while. Mr Epeen 
Solo PvP, in any MMO, but especially a sandbox is not really a sane design goal, it is in direct conflict with diversity (e.g. 100s of different ships).
As soon as you start encouraging 1v1 someone is going to want the battleships balanced with the frigates  |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
21
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Posted - 2014.07.03 16:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
Risk averseness.
Not wanting to deal with the fact someone bested them 1v1.
Being concerned with their kill-board green-ess
I don't think there are other reasons why a PvPer wouldn't at least try to solo and see what's what, toss a couple dozen frigs around to get a feel for it. Once they tried, simple reason, they didn't like it and prefear to do something else, altough i find it difficult to believe spinning a shipin a hangar waiting for that perfect fleet to be ready can be more fun eh. |
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