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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.27 02:05:00 -
[1]
So I had this idea.
Why not a system for stock options in EVE? I could calculate prices and sell them.
Discuss.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
Taurequis
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Posted - 2006.06.27 13:08:00 -
[2]
Ok,
First and probably most important question....
Wtf is a stock option? 
Best Regards,
Taurequis
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robacz
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Posted - 2006.06.27 13:12:00 -
[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_option
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Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders |
Erfnam
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Posted - 2006.06.27 14:14:00 -
[4]
It's something that doesn't make much sense in the game until CCP improves the stock management and functionality.
Recruiting
Casino - Monitor Thread |
Dr Slaughter
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Posted - 2006.06.27 14:25:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Dark Shikari
So I had this idea.
Why not a system for stock options in EVE? I could calculate prices and sell them.
Discuss.
and while they're at it the devs can add other derivatives and futures too... sometime after Kali2 perhaps as part of the contract system
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Taketa De
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Posted - 2006.06.27 15:01:00 -
[6]
If you don't have a working exchange system... any system of deriatives based on items traded at said exchange would be kind of silly.
Tho, tbh... a futures market on minerals would be kind of cool!
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The Advanced Drone Control Panel. |
Taketa De
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Posted - 2006.06.27 15:21:00 -
[7]
Thinking on it a bit more... creating an options system is actually easier then a working stock system.
For the options system, one central autority that is trusted (calling it Exchange from here on) could set the whole thing up and since the value of options is based on another value (and not just illusionary hand waving stock reports like it is possible with stocks here) it has more clearly defined rules and a clearer system behind it.
All the trading could be done via a web interface (in realtime). Cashing in on options can't be automated however unless it is ISK only.
There are a few problems:
1. There is no ingame item for options, so some people might have even more of a trust issue then with stocks.
2. The Exchange would have to be able to freeze and hold ISK (or possibly assets or stocks) for all market participants and then it's up to them to either allow trading on margins or just for the covered amount.
3. For a market to be healthy it needs enough market participants... for something like this that most people would consider esoteric that may be a problem. Designated Market Makers could help with that however.
4. When issuing call options, your potential loss is limitless so it may be hard for the Exchange in some situations. So if the have to force buy to cancel out the issued Options because they aren't covered anymore... with the problem in point 3 they put themselves out on a limb. If there is only 1 issuer for instance and the loss has gone beyond what is covered and the other side doesn't want to sell the call options they aquired yet the exchange couldn't close down the trade with a buy since nobody is selling. That would mean a possibly large financial loss for the exchange if they couldn't get the issuer to cough up the difference. (No laws in eve that can make them)
With multiple issuers and market participants this becomes less of a problem.
5. American (Caldari) or European (Gallente) style Options?.
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The Advanced Drone Control Panel. |
Taketa De
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Posted - 2006.06.27 15:33:00 -
[8]
And why I think a comodities exchange that allows one to issue and buy futures on minerals, moon minerals, ice... would be "better":
(Specially if done by CCP, which would be quite possible)
1. It's usefull to produces (who can fix the price they want to buy minerals at to prduce)
2. It's usefull to miners (who can fix the price they want to sell minerlas at)
3. It's usefull to Alliances (who can secure a suppy of what they need long term this way)
4. Speculators can still do their thing (who can make very nice ISK)
5. It may allow some really great manipulations and heists. Not as bad as in RL where you can buy out all produces of say silver contractually and so manipulate the price, but some people may still pull some impressive stunts that actually affect the game in a meaningfull way.
The problem here again is that future trading typically happens on margins where you need either the commodity or enough ISK to cover. However since it's a usfull tool (and not just a speculation gimmik) it may have enough market activity to allow automated buys and sells when people get out of their covered range.
It would also be easier to implement in code then a stock or derivative exchange.
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The Advanced Drone Control Panel. |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.27 16:01:00 -
[9]
I don't think there would be that much of an issue.
For example, I could sell options good for 1 month to buy EMFI shares at 14k a piece. The option would cost 1k ISK a piece. In a month, if EMFI shares had gone up to 16k, the option-buyer could exercise his options and make 1k per share total profit.
If you wanted to make it so that any party could sell options, not just a highly trusted party, you could have them put their shares in escrow with a broker (like with the current EGSE).
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
EMFi Manager
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Posted - 2006.06.27 19:09:00 -
[10]
Actually, covered (non-transferable) short-term call options with isk-for-share excercise are pretty easy to implement for EMFI on her own stocks. And if someone is interested I will beta test this.
For example: I hold 100's of BMBE, BMBE is about to issue dividends in 1 week, this could be the make or break moment for BMBE, 7% dividends and the stock will finally skyrocket, 3-5% again and not much will happen. You could play with this by investing 520m in 10 BMBE shares and maybe resell for 550-600m
Or you could buy 100 options for "BMBE @52 15/07/2006" for 100M if BMBE trades for around 55-60m on the 13th you excercise your option and buy them for 52 and resell for 56 immediately. Or you offer EMFI to buy the options back for 300M.
I agree this could be done totally on a website (the exchange) with holding the shares / isk in colleteral (theoretically making the options transferrable) or by a trusted party (who locks her own shares/isk to cover the options)
I will offer call options that expire on the 14th of each month on all shares (but EMFI shares) that I hold in portfolio from now on. If there is ennough people that like this service I may publish standardized pricelists.
Alt of Naphtalia
Visit my investment site |
Ulle
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Posted - 2006.06.27 19:55:00 -
[11]
I remember this topic being discussed few months ago (and probably even before, but I wasn't here so I can't remember ;) ):
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=314598
just in first days of the shares/IPO/scams wave. It's curious to see that from there to today players have done a lot of that without waiting for ingame tools, so I wouldn't be the slightest surprised if players could make their own version of commodities futures and stock options, and be successful too
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.27 22:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: EMFi Manager
I will offer call options that expire on the 14th of each month on all shares (but EMFI shares) that I hold in portfolio from now on. If there is ennough people that like this service I may publish standardized pricelists.
Sweet.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
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