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JimChuD
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Posted - 2006.06.27 11:18:00 -
[1]
hi,
i wanted to ask about high sec pos's and attacking them.
Recently My corp found an unprotected t2 producing pos.
To which we decided to attack the pos after a discussion with a corp mate about if it was able to be done.
To which we got a small fleet and marched off to destroy the pos. I didn't get any Concord messages on my account but got the agression timer to the corp as if it was a crime no different to taking from someone's can or shooting someone in a 0.4 and below.
We sat and after an hr or so i departed, we were nearly through the shield. i came back to find my corp mates telling me a GM had come along and recharged the shield?
the reason was that you can't attack a high sec pos?
i must add at this point the pos owner and his alts were at the POS with a few friends ramming us side to side to attempt to stop us firing. due to them not being in the same corp as the alts they were unable to to fire upon us.
now i always beleived stations and POS's were attackable wherever they were and it was down to the discretion of the owner to protect the station or pos? like attacking neutral or negative standing convoys outside a station.. as the station doesnt go active on you..? in game mechanics and such..
also why didnt concord go active if that wasn't the case?
im pretty sure the GM was contacted Directly and no petition made...? specially due to the reaction time...
i have never read of this being a bug or exploit and from previous conversations with POS owners and such they have all said its in game mechanics.
Regards
Sig must be under 24000 bytes - Cathath ([email protected]) |
Xiano
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Posted - 2006.06.27 11:31:00 -
[2]
Hi JimChud,
Others who have tested this have found that it does warn you that concord will attack, although as you found out, they don't.
Perhaps you didn't receive the warning because you have turned them off?
The GM was petitioned, and it took about an hour or so for the GM to respond.
The other characters were not my alts, they were friends.
Perhaps some clarification is needed from a dev?
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JimChuD
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Posted - 2006.06.27 12:04:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Xiano
Hi JimChud,
Others who have tested this have found that it does warn you that concord will attack, although as you found out, they don't.
Perhaps you didn't receive the warning because you have turned them off?
The GM was petitioned, and it took about an hour or so for the GM to respond.
The other characters were not my alts, they were friends.
Perhaps some clarification is needed from a dev?
i appreciate your response,
i checked and on my account which i dont have it alert however my girlfriend has the alerts come up and she didnt get the response however she may have been typing and pressed return at the time thus not seeing it..
i presumed the alts due to one of the people that turned up (Deodoktor)i have read bits and bobs about him being a very well off T2 Producer etc.. and due to the POS being a T2 building POS i presumed that it was his alt's corp or an alt corp.
i agree i think there needs be some clarification on this matter? i personally dont think they should be protected as they are able to protect themselves.
Sig must be under 24000 bytes - Cathath ([email protected]) |
Eskona Runningstar
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Posted - 2006.06.27 12:57:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 27/06/2006 12:58:19
Originally by: JimChuD
(...)
i agree i think there needs be some clarification on this matter? i personally dont think they should be protected as they are able to protect themselves.
The GM response and the Concord warning box should be enough clarification - the devs intention is that Concord should be defending that station. On top of that the POS owner buys Starbase Charters from the faction that holds sovereignty - I would interpret this as the POS being under Empire protection.
If you want to take out a high-sec POS, declare war on the corp, then destroy it.
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Xiano
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Posted - 2006.06.27 13:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Eskona RunningstarIf you want to take out a high-sec POS, declare war on the corp, then destroy it.[/quote
Don't tell him that! 
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Jimmy Tudeski
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Posted - 2006.06.27 13:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Eskona Runningstar
...
If you want to take out a high-sec POS, declare war on the corp, then destroy it.
0.4 ist NOT high-sec sector. if anybody atack you in 0.4 system on belts, concord don't help you. why GM must be help POS in 04??? if it was 05 and below system i unterstand it, but for 04... sorry.
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Xiano
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Posted - 2006.06.27 14:10:00 -
[7]
It was in 0.7
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Blighter
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Posted - 2006.06.27 16:00:00 -
[8]
Concord should still not step in.
It is the responsibility of the POS owner to defend their POS, either through ships and gangs, or POS guns.
But yes, simply War decc the corp, then you are free to take down their POS as you see fit.
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Xiano
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Posted - 2006.06.27 16:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Blighter
Concord should still not step in.
It is the responsibility of the POS owner to defend their POS, either through ships and gangs, or POS guns.
I would also like to take this opportunity to point out it is the responsibility of the ship owner to defend their ship through guns on their ship.
What crap!
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Eskona Runningstar
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Posted - 2006.06.27 17:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Blighter
Concord should still not step in.
It is the responsibility of the POS owner to defend their POS, either through ships and gangs, or POS guns.
(...)
Its a POS in high-security space. The POS owner forfeits moon mining rights and reaction capability to be able to operate that POS. Its pretty hard to make a profit from a POS without moon mining or reactions, so no reward = no risk is applicable.
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War Drumb
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Posted - 2006.06.27 19:46:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Its a POS in high-security space. The POS owner forfeits moon mining rights and reaction capability to be able to operate that POS. Its pretty hard to make a profit from a POS without moon mining or reactions, so no reward = no risk is applicable.
aye and the fact that they have to buy contracts to run it should tell you that there is an added cost to the site. I agree that a POS in high secure space should be under the protection of concord unless you are at war.
But what about .04 space? You still need the contracts and you cant moon mine... what does the POS do there?
Don't fret precious I'm here, step away from the window... Go back to sleep... Lay your head down child I won't let the boogeyman come, Counting bodies like sheep To the rhythm of the war drums |
JimChuD
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Posted - 2006.06.28 11:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Eskona Runningstar
Originally by: Blighter
Concord should still not step in.
It is the responsibility of the POS owner to defend their POS, either through ships and gangs, or POS guns.
(...)
Its a POS in high-security space. The POS owner forfeits moon mining rights and reaction capability to be able to operate that POS. Its pretty hard to make a profit from a POS without moon mining or reactions, so no reward = no risk is applicable.
the post you quoted is the way i kind of see it.
You pay for the charters... These charters are basically like a land lease... no different to renting land to have a property on. nothing more.. no different to what you have to pay when buy a flat or apartment.
it is not to pay for protection, if that was the case you would have to pay concord! however you dont so you would just get protection from cadari navy or fed navy etc. NOT concord!
making money from a high sec pos is very easy! depends on what you do with the POS. as it is in high sec your correct in the thought that you cant moon mine. however you can happily build at the POS, you can research, copy etc there which is easy to make the money back on... i know a few people that do that infact the pos that was attacked was!
and if that was the case noone would bother!
POS are basically starbases no different to the stations in game... all these stations have THEIR OWN guns for protection.. and all stations in theory would have to have charters no different to anyone else.
In empire though it is illegal to attack someone, i dont see why it is illegal to attack a structure like a station. It is not attacking anyone directly and if you have a starbase you should set it up in mind that someone will attack the starbase so it will need defenses. like every other station in empire.
POS's are for people with money who want to use them to protect their own space via sovernty or to make money on via Moon Mining, Reactions, Production or Research.
if you buy a pos i dont see why you shouldnt have to protect it wherever it is. and i dont see why they should not be able to be attacked anywhere regardless of war.
Sig must be under 24000 bytes - Cathath ([email protected]) |
Daqinson
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Posted - 2006.06.28 11:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xiano
It was in 0.7
wait wait wait, you can place a POS in a .7 now? What have the Devs done? *tears start*!
Lol did you see that guy!! Who comes to a fleet battle in a shuttle? What a nub |
JimChuD
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Posted - 2006.06.28 12:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Daqinson
Originally by: Xiano
It was in 0.7
wait wait wait, you can place a POS in a .7 now? What have the Devs done? *tears start*!
thats what we want to know :P
*puts hand up*
excuse me mr dev sir..
Compromise - Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be |
Eskona Runningstar
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Posted - 2006.06.28 12:47:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 28/06/2006 12:52:47
Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 28/06/2006 12:47:55
Originally by: JimChuD
Originally by: Eskona Runningstar
Originally by: Blighter
Concord should still not step in.
It is the responsibility of the POS owner to defend their POS, either through ships and gangs, or POS guns.
(...)
Its a POS in high-security space. The POS owner forfeits moon mining rights and reaction capability to be able to operate that POS. Its pretty hard to make a profit from a POS without moon mining or reactions, so no reward = no risk is applicable.
the post you quoted is the way i kind of see it.
You pay for the charters... These charters are basically like a land lease... no different to renting land to have a property on. nothing more.. no different to what you have to pay when buy a flat or apartment.
(...)
So the POS owner has the legal right to have a POS in that location. If he is not an outlaw or did any other crimes he (and all his property) is protected by Concord in high-sec therefore. After all, anchored secured containers are also protected by Concord, arent they?
But seriously, I dont see a problem here at all - the GM boosted the shields, so obviously you attacking that POS without being attacked by Concord is against the rules. Instead of continueing to moan about it, just pay the war dec fee and attack the POS.
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Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.28 13:26:00 -
[16]
this is annoyng.... what is the name of the corp and where is it :D we will tkae the job of beating that pos to the ground by declaring war!
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
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