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Flying in formation?

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Eyari	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:00:00 - [1] Not sure this should go into the idea lab, because I don't know if it has much utility in-game...so wanted to see what general thought of it... I was thinking about one of the more recent Eve trailers (E3 I think) which had some Ravens flying together, looking like they were doing some jinking or other small manuevers. Somehow, this spawned the idea in my head that flying in formation is very difficult other than: "Orbit", "Keep at...", "Approach", etc. I do missions with some friends of mine, and in general, it helps to fly as a unit. With various levels of Navigation skills, various ships and ship fittings, this ends up being a bit more of a challenge than it's worth. We end up just parking in space around whoever is tanking, and then crawl to the next acceleration gate. And, unless I missed the memo, I don't know of a way to numerically designate a ship velocity (click on the arc and pray is all I know...). So...two things...the Idea (TM), then the Question (TM). My idea was something like a formation tool / overview / etc interface. The gang (or squad, since there's supposedly more fleet commander control coming in Kali sometime) leader could pick a formation arrangement and a ship spacing. Speed would have to default to the lowest common denominator (Earth & Beyond cheesed this, by doing an average of the ship velocities...I don't think upping a ship's velocity should happen just from flying in formation). Frigates or other faster ships could either be designated as "escort" or just as part of the formation, and fly on the outer-most portion of the formation. Being in the formation is an optional toggle...if you aren't the leader, you click the toggle, and your ship autopilots into position. Double-clicking anywhere deactivates the toggle, giving you control of your ship again. I'm sure there are some other features or whatnot that could be fleshed out, but...on to the Question... Is this something that would be useful in the grand scheme of things? I can see some utility for group mission running and arguably escorting cargo haulers. I think that we already have the gang warp capability, but we have no gang impulse complement. I could see a group warp alignment functionality, that would be useful in PvP and PvE. What I don't know is if this would be useful outside of this, hence not worth the trouble. Would formations, either for large or small ships be useful in fleet operations? In wolf-packs? In smaller gangs? Is this purely an aesthetic feature? Would the linked-flying code create more lag than is worth it? Just wondering what others thought...I'm not entirely of the opinion that "Eve MUST have this feature", just thought it might add to things.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:36:00 - [2] EVE had formations early on, including skills. It didn't work out and been removed later on totally, including the skills. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:39:00 - [3] Here is a thought: Pilot B sets keep distance from pilot a at 1k Pilot C sets the same from pilot B Pilot D does the same from C Etc...etc...etc.... Any half trained pilot can then keep in formation while pilot A does all the flying. This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it.
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:41:00 - [4] Edited by: Twilight Moon on 27/06/2006 16:42:15 Originally by: Flyyn Here is a thought: Pilot B sets keep distance from pilot a at 1k Pilot C sets the same from pilot B Pilot D does the same from C Etc...etc...etc.... Any half trained pilot can then keep in formation while pilot A does all the flying. If you do that you get a Congo line. Can't say I remember many historical fights that use the congo formation as a favoured battle strategy. On the other hand, on a firday night after far too many drinks, its almost perfect. --------------------- Sig to come soonish.
Minsc	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:24:00 - [5] I would be happy if they could just make it so that gang warp waited till everyone was ready to warp until actually activating warp, would make it easier to keep a fleet or hauler/escort together on long flights. Would be cool to have different formations that would give advantages and disadvantages in fleet battles as well though.
000Hunter000	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:51:00 - [6] indeed, have another option for gangwarping where all the ships wait till the last one is alligned and at the right velocity before warping, also having the gang slow down to the slowest warpspeed might be a good idea (so everybody arrives at the same destination simultaniously) On the other hand we also used gangwarp as emergency exit where the gangleader warps our mininggang away whilst the combatwing remains behind, then the above would not work as well. Banner will be updated shortly
Heritor	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:54:00 - [7] Quote: also having the gang slow down to the slowest warpspeed might be a good idea It does Always where your seatbelt, its far harder for the aliens to abduct you!
Bentguru	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:55:00 - [8] An option to fly in different formations would be cool, but it wouldn't be very useful tactically. The only advanatage I could really think of would be something along the wingman philosophy: Have another frigate behind the lead frig that targets and destroys anybody attacking his wingman (based on the idea of small optimals and the attacking frig getting behind the lead because he's following him). -- New Petition Inc Vid This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn Look! Christmas colors!-ReverendM
Nex Angelus	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:51:00 - [9] Edited by: Nex Angelus on 27/06/2006 18:52:18 This is something I've been trying to achive for a long time, but noone seems to be intressted in it. Personally, I'd like it to be some skill involved, so, no pre-made formation-stuff/skill for me please... However, setting up a formation flying-team, with a few skilled pilotes is one of my small dreams, so if anyone is intressted in putting a air-(space?) areobatics-team together, send me a mail
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Twilight Moon If you do that you get a Congo line. We did that as a gate once whilst waiting for people to join up. I think it was on the Easter bunny hunt road-trip. Might have a fraps of it. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Akkarin Pagan	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:59:00 - [11] Edited by: Akkarin Pagan on 27/06/2006 19:00:48 Originally by: Twilight Moon Edited by: Twilight Moon on 27/06/2006 16:42:15 Originally by: Flyyn Here is a thought: Pilot B sets keep distance from pilot a at 1k Pilot C sets the same from pilot B Pilot D does the same from C Etc...etc...etc.... Any half trained pilot can then keep in formation while pilot A does all the flying. If you do that you get a Congo line. Can't say I remember many historical fights that use the congo formation as a favoured battle strategy. On the other hand, on a firday night after far too many drinks, its almost perfect. In the Battle of Trafalgar, Lord Admiral nelson used a pair of congo lines to split the enemy fleet, before his ships turned and broadsided the opposing fleet into oblivion Akkarin EDIT: Of course this isn't much use in the EvE environment where all your ships guns can fire at any given target from any angle.
Culmen	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:01:00 - [12] Edited by: Culmen on 27/06/2006 19:05:52 Originally by: Twilight Moon Can't say I remember many historical fights that use the congo formation as a favoured battle strategy. a congo line was actually standard naval formation for a long time see: Battle of Trafalgar specifically this picture Conga Conga Conga also The battle of yalu river line astern means, conga line, and the chinese didnt do it and got pwned and and this is a general article on the conga line formation Linkage The battle of jutland [HUGE IMAGE WARNING] --------------------- Carebear, Until i get my missile skill training done
Culmen	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Culmen on 27/06/2006 19:03:55 doh! Akkarin beat me to it thats what you get when you actually research your posts! and what the heck is wrong with the forums settings --------------------- Carebear, Until i get my missile skill training done
Wrayth Osu	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:09:00 - [14] The idea being that naval ships from that time, had all there guns facing out the sides, and by being in a line formation, they were never in each others line of fire. P.S. Woot, I beat the blue robots to a thread :) _____________________________ Nukem from orbit... It's the only way to be sure.
Akkarin Pagan	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Culmen Edited by: Culmen on 27/06/2006 19:08:00 doh! Akkarin beat me to it thats what you get when you actually research your posts! Well it is nice to get some kind of revenge on an ASCN pilot (ex Tribal SOuls member) lol
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:39:00 - [16] EVE's currently lacking any reason to use positional movement past range and high/low transversal. Guns in EVE do not have an arc of fire. You're not harder to hit when your Raven shows his side, nor are you easier to hit when you face the opponent. Ah, I can't find that old skill list with the formations. There have been a few of them. Naval vessels used to even change from having the enemy at port to starport and back to protect their crews while they were reloading the guns on the side pointing away from the enemy. Get some hits on the port and some on the starport side of the ship is much better than taking all damage on one side. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:00:00 - [17] it makes sense /signed. Would especially like to see basic formations, like 'keep object at x km'
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:20:00 - [18] You can set your own 'warp in at', 'keep at' and 'orbit at' distances using the overview. Undock. Click once on a sentry or anything within range. Right click on the 'warp in at', 'keep at' or 'orbit at' icon up in the overview. Enter your preferred distance in meters. Accept and be happy. One of the problems with 'keep at' and 'orbit at' are that they're pretty stupid. Situation: A----B-C A: enemies, approaching B: trying to keep the distance, moving to the right C: You, trying to keep the distance, but not perfectly aligned. You will slowly be overtaken by B, ending between A and B, trailing B. If it tried to keep the angle between B and C fixed, it would be better. 'orbit at' doesn't put you into a tangential orbite from your current heading towards the target. It drops your ship back into the plane, giving two points where you have very low transversal to anything not trying to orbit you at closest range. Yes, EVE isn't really done in 3D. It 'prefers' to fall back into 2D whenever possible. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.

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