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I've tried, but my cyclone.... Sucks (Setup Needed)

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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.06.29 00:20:00 - [1] Okay everyone, I have another character who's name shall remain anonymous. He has a ridiculous amount of gunnery skills. He is cough a sniper. However, I would like to get my cyclone setup to take on other BC's. I'm working towards T2 autocannons, as right now he's an artillery specialist. I tried two setups against a friends ferox (3ml skillpoint toon). He was using a passive tank and I was setup as a pirate. Disclaimer: I fit with what I had at the time (In other words some of the items listed could have been swapped for T2) Setup 1: Highs 5 720mm Howitzer II's (w/ Titanium Sabot M and then Quake M the next time around) 3 Medium Nos I's (II's available) Meds 1 medium shield booster II 1 Inv. field (II not available) 1 Web 1 Scram (X1) 1 Active tracking enhancer II (forgot the name) Lows 3 RCU II 1 Capacitor Relay With this setup the medium shield booster was not nearly enough to match his dmg and my tank couldn't hold out. I didn't even come close to breaking his tank, I just wasn't doing enough damage with 100-200 per shot. Not to mention, the nosses didn't even break his cap (he was running a passive tank so what would he care anyways). Setup 2: Highs 5 220mm 'Named' Autocannons 3 Medium Nos I Meds 1 Large Shield Booster II 1 Inv. Field 1 Web 1 Scram 1 Active tracking enhancer II (forgot the name) Lows 2 RCU II 2 Gyrostab II On this setup I wasn't doing NEARLY enough damage to break his tank. In the end he broke mine and I lost the battle to half armor. I think I got his shields to 44% (which isn't even to the optimal shield boosting percentage ) I know there are alot of factors that come into play because the first time we fought I ended up breaking his tank, but he swapped a few modules and was able to sustain the same damage the next time. So does anyone have any suggestions for me? Thanks in advance.
Frezik	Posted - 2006.06.29 00:53:00 - [2] Never use a cap power relay when shield tanking. It reduces your boost ammount. Also, the large shield boosters are typically used on cruiser-sized ships (XLarge are for BS). Here's a setup based on yours, but replaces some of the lows with power diagnostics (which boost powercore and cap) and puts in a large shield booster. Note that I haven't actually tried this in game. HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 253 \| 24] 720mm Howitzer Artillery II > [ 253 \| 24] 720mm Howitzer Artillery II > [ 253 \| 24] 720mm Howitzer Artillery II > [ 253 \| 24] 720mm Howitzer Artillery II > [ 253 \| 24] 720mm Howitzer Artillery II > [ 200 \| 25] Medium Nosferatu II > [ 200 \| 25] Medium Nosferatu II > [ 200 \| 25] Medium Nosferatu II MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 165 \| 115] Large Shield Booster II > [ 0 \| 40] Invulnerability Field I > [ 1 \| 30] Warp Scrambler I > [ 1 \| 25] Stasis Webifier I > [ 1 \| 35] Tracking Computer II LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 0 \| 17] Power Diagnostic System II > [ 0 \| 17] Power Diagnostic System II > [ 0 \| 17] Reactor Control Unit II > [ 0 \| 17] Reactor Control Unit II ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.29 00:57:00 - [3] simple rule you should take note of if your solo, you need decent dmg output! so a min of 2dmg mods is pretty much manditory if ur in a gang and u are one of the damage dealers u need at least 2 dmg mods the only thime u should not fit 2 dmg mods or more, is if u have less than 2 slots, or ur pirmary task isnt dmg, ie tackling frigs, or ecm boats ect so after all that. FIT 2 DMG MODS -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.06.29 01:06:00 - [4] LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 0 \| 17] Power Diagnostic System II > [ 0 \| 17] Power Diagnostic System II > [ 0 \| 17] Reactor Control Unit II > [ 0 \| 17] Reactor Control Unit II So could I swap one of each of these for Gyrostab II's (For more dmg?)
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.06.29 01:10:00 - [5] And on T2 ammo... This shows that you get a cap BONUS to using the T2 ammo, however I remember seeing that it is a velocity penalty and a cap penalty to use the T2 ammo. Are the penalties worth the dmg?
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.29 01:14:00 - [6] tbh u want ac, since they can get 15km falloff and some 2.5km optimal giving u effective range of 17.5km which is perfect for 20km desrupter range. -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.06.29 01:24:00 - [7] Why the hell are there fitting mods on your cyclone in the first place? You can't remotely run out of grid with Engineering IV, and thats 45k SP. 2x Gyrostab / 1x Damage Contrl / 1x WCS or just 3x Gyro in those lows. Your mids are also atrocious - what the christ is that tracking computer doing there for your autocannons? Swap it and the weaksauce T1 invul out for multispectrals, and there you go. You now beat down any other battlecruiser in your sleep. Oh, and EWar drones if you're a real jerk. Seriously though, you should be winning it even without Ewar in the equation with an amp in the tracking computer slot and the fixed lows.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.06.29 01:32:00 - [8] Edited by: LUGAL MOP''N''GLO on 29/06/2006 01:31:53 ^^ Gonna try it all 5 720mm Howi II's AND 3 med nosses won't fit without some fitting mods in the lows (For this toon).
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.06.29 03:52:00 - [9] RCUs don't give cap recharge, although PDUs would. Still a PDU doesn't compare to a damage control as far as adding survivability goes (your major incoming is the triple nos anyway, while it lasts) - and it's really not very worthwhile if you don't need the fitting. Also not being reliant on cap recharge lets you swap out 1x multispec for an MWD when necessary.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.06.29 03:58:00 - [10] I'll try to fit it with 3 Gyros and a damage control when I get back to my computer. I doubt I will be able to fit the 720's with no PDU's though. I'll let you know how it goes.
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.06.29 03:59:00 - [11] I thought it would go without saying that 720s are a terrible idea. The autocannon setup is the only one I commented on, talking about the artillery option would just give me a brain aneurism.
Voculus	Posted - 2006.06.29 04:38:00 - [12] I haven't seen anything that will definitively break that Ferox tank. Can such an assurance even be possible, given the Cyclone's extremely poor damage output? Should he be using 220mm or 425mm? What type of ammo?
Copine Callmeknau	Posted - 2006.06.29 04:51:00 - [13] Use AC's -- Solo setup (AB) 5x 220mm AC (use dual 180's if you need more fitting room) 3x Med nos 10MN AB 20KM Scram Large shield booster 2x Invuln 3x Gyrostab Damage control -- Solo (no AB) 5x 220mm (d 180's if you need more fitting room) 3x med nos 20KM scram Thermal hardener Kinetic Hardener EM Hardener Large shield booster 3x Gyrostab Damage control -- Gang setup (ie, you have someon to tackle for you) 5x 220mm (d180's if you need more room to fit) 3x med nos Large shield booster Thermal Hardener EM Hardener Kinetic Hardener Shield boost amp 3x Gyrostab Damage control -- ------- See the idiot walk, see the idiot talk
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.06.29 06:09:00 - [14] owning now, the 3 gyrostab II's REALLY helped the dmg. We did a test in an asteroid belt. He was 25km away from the warp-in point, I warped in and approached him with a MWD, jammed him as he was trying to warp out rammed him and hit him with: 5 220mm carbine autos 3 Medium NOS II's 1 MWD 1 20km scram 1 Large Shield Booster II 2 Multispecs 1 Damage Control 3 Gyrostab II's Thanks guys
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.06.29 07:07:00 - [15] So I did the math and it seems that I'm only doing roughly 100dps to my friend's ferox (after resistances). Is there a way to figure out raw dps without being einstein? The Maths 1.5 seconds per shot 30-40 dmg per shot Every 3 seconds 60-80dmg X 5 AC's = 115 AVG DPS
F4ze	Posted - 2006.06.29 08:03:00 - [16] Just show info on a fitted gun, take the damage multiplier, multiply it with the amount of damage your ammo does, divide by the rate of fire.
O8535510N	Posted - 2006.06.29 08:30:00 - [17] Not that it really matters, but a few weeks ago I was doing one of those missions next to a stargate and some guy warped in with his Ferox and started stealing my cans. So I shot at him. I was in my PvE Cyclone. Which is nothing special by any means, but has a pretty decent passive shield tank. So I chased him off at 46km, chased him off meaning that I broke his shields, and then he left, and warped back AGAIN at 9km!!! and I chased his ass off again! and then I apologized for the smack I had been talking and we were all friends and he gave my stuff back. I don't really know what a good Ferox would be like, not since I have gotten good with my Cyclone setup. But this is the setup I use for doing missions, and it has chased off at least one guy of questionable skill. 4x720mm Prototype Siege Cannon I (Proton M) 1x250mm Gallium (Proton S) 2x XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bays (Havoc) 1x 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Bay (Sabretooth) 1x 'Anointed' EM Hardener 1x V-M15 Multispectral 1x Ditrigonal Thermal Barrier 2x Large Azeotropic Ward (forgot exactly what it's called) 2x reactor diagnostics, they both have different names, the ones that give bonuses to everything 1x tracking enhancer 1x pricey gyro Drones -- 4x Hammerhead I (3 used at one time, not enough drone skills yet.) that's the PvE setup, it can do any mission with no problems at all, as long as you set it up before hand with the proper two hardeners, like Angel Extravaganza, you fit explosive and kinetic hardeners along with the Invuln Field and then you basically have nothing to fear from anything in the whole mission. I used to fight from 45km but now it's more like 25, since then I can use all 8 of my weapons, instead of just the artillery and the heavy missiles. Hell if someone is under 9km and they don't move much you can still paste em with the artillery. This setup doesn't have any of the pirate necessities, like the web or the scram or whatever but in any case, it broke a Ferox. And the dude fighting me didn't even come close to breaking my tank. So whatever, this setup is pretty decent. Just an idea to try and work off of. Really, if you put on an MWD/AB, a web, and a scram, I don't see how you could have any tank worth anything at all. Probably better in any case if you were going to go pirating would be to have a friend with an inty or something do the jamming and whatnot while you hammer him with your ship.
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.06.29 09:24:00 - [18] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO So I did the math and it seems that I'm only doing roughly 100dps to my friend's ferox (after resistances). Is there a way to figure out raw dps without being einstein? The Maths 1.5 seconds per shot 30-40 dmg per shot Every 3 seconds 60-80dmg X 5 AC's = 115 AVG DPS DPS taking resists into account looks much worse than without. My Cyc does about 238.5 DPS (EMP) without drones, which is much better than if you take resists into account =p Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
d'hofren	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Testicular Testes I thought it would go without saying that 720s are a terrible idea. The autocannon setup is the only one I commented on, talking about the artillery option would just give me a brain aneurism. A correctly setup 720 II Cyclone will two volley an indy and insta pop frigs. All while holding a passable tank or running a couple of multispecs. Very nice when working in a gang. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Galactic Exploration and Mining - Web and T II Shop
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.06.29 23:46:00 - [20] Edited by: LUGAL MOP''N''GLO on 29/06/2006 23:49:38 Originally by: F4ze Just show info on a fitted gun, take the damage multiplier, multiply it with the amount of damage your ammo does, divide by the rate of fire. My ammo does 6hp of explosive and 12hp of kinetic OR 9.6 base shield damage and 14.4 base armor damage... How do I add those into the equation? EDIT: Oh Oh, and does that take into account the three gyrostab II's I'm running?
voidvim	Posted - 2006.06.30 00:17:00 - [21] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO EDIT: Oh Oh, and does that take into account the three gyrostab II's I'm running? nope gyrostabs add more damage after the other bonus's but you get less bonus after the first damage modual, so the third modual will give hardly any bonus.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.06.30 01:25:00 - [22] anyone know how to add the penalties for stacking mods and such?
Copine Callmeknau	Posted - 2006.06.30 01:59:00 - [23] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO anyone know how to add the penalties for stacking mods and such? Gyros effect the guns, not the ammo. Show info on the gun and tell us the RoF and damage mod, then we can tell you how much dps you've got. For instance, my cyclone has 5 guns/3 gyros with RoF of 1.49 seconds, and 3.784 damage mod. Hail ammo does 6 kinetic and 24 explosive. I'll break the calculations down into a step by step process, normally you can just go [damagemod][damage]/[RoF][nGuns]=[dps] 3.784 * 30 = 113.52 damage per shot. 113.52 / 1.49 = 76.19 dps per gun. 76.19 * 5 = 381 dps With my crap drone skills (DI 4, Combat Drone 3) and hammerhead I's I get. Damage mod of 3.312, RoF of 2, 12 thermal damage. On hobgoblins I get damage mod of 3.312, RoF of 2, 7.5 thermal damage. 3.312 * 12 = 39.74 damage per shot 39.74 / 2 = 19.87 dps per hammerhead 19.87 * 3 = 59.61 dps for hammerheads -- 3.312 * 7.5 = 24.84 per shot 24.84 / 2 = 12.42 dps per hobgoblin 12.42 * 2 = 24.84 dps for hobgoblins -- 24.84 + 59.61 = 84.45 dps for drones 381 + 84.45 = 465.45 dps with below average skills. ------- See the idiot walk, see the idiot talk
Benglada	Posted - 2006.06.30 03:02:00 - [24] you said your ammo was doing 10 kinetic 6 exp? wtf? use EMP M 70% of the times and the other closerange ammo thats mostly explosive. i think emp M does 25 base damage so its doing basically twice your damage...... --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Copine Callmeknau	Posted - 2006.06.30 03:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Benglada you said your ammo was doing 10 kinetic 6 exp? wtf? use EMP M 70% of the times and the other closerange ammo thats mostly explosive. i think emp M does 25 base damage so its doing basically twice your damage...... He's using Titanium sabot for some reason. Benglada is right, use EMP M for shields, Fusion M for armour, and Phased Plasma against T2 Amarr. This will maximise your dps. ------- See the idiot walk, see the idiot talk
kessah	Posted - 2006.06.30 04:37:00 - [26] Edited by: kessah on 30/06/2006 04:38:27 3x Heavy Launchers t2 5x 220 auto's t2 5x EW mods (you can fit an AB in there, mwd even? cant remember been awhile since i used it) then fit a 1600mm plate, 1\2med reppers, and a nano adaptive\dmg mod. Its understandable u wana utilise its meds for tanking but in all fairness 5 slots just aint enuf to tank and tackle. Ive fully brought down battleships with this setup it isnt pretty but it gets the job done. -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eve-files.com/media/0604/Forever_pirate.wmv[/ur
M00dy	Posted - 2006.06.30 14:00:00 - [27] Artillery is usually only good for NPCing and Gate Camping. They have low Damage over Time.
Nicocat	Posted - 2006.06.30 14:39:00 - [28] Edited by: Nicocat on 30/06/2006 14:39:32 My Cyclone setup dices Feroxes. 5 'scout' 425mm autocannons 3 'arbalest' assault launchers (for those ever-so-pesky interceptors) 1 10MN AB (names) 1 20km warp jammer 2 hardeners (invulns or specific hardeners, depending on target area) 1 L shield booster 3 gyrostab 2 1 extra slot (often a damage control) Eats Feroxes, chews up AFs (in practice, not in actual engagements yet ;) ), rips mining ops composed of cruisers in half. I love my Cyclone. Only lost one when I was tricked into a fight with a Domi. ---------------------------- The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass. -Alexi Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me!
Lumel	Posted - 2006.06.30 15:15:00 - [29] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO My ammo does 6hp of explosive and 12hp of kinetic OR 9.6 base shield damage and 14.4 base armor damage... Others have already said it, but I'll reinforce the point. You're using the wrong ammo. Use EMP. Not only does it have the highest overall damage, it does a high amount of EM damage AND a high amount of explosive damage. You can theoretically swap out for fusion once you get to armor, but basically you're good to go with EMP. It hoses your optimal range, but ACs don't have much optimal anyways, all you really care about is falloff. --- Knowledge won't help us understand
Hysenthlay	Posted - 2006.06.30 15:45:00 - [30] ditch the nos and add 3x heavy missile. swap to ac's use drones ferox has a badass passive tank. so you will want to load up on the raw dps. ____________________________ Silflay Hraka U Embleer Rah

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