You clearly know more than us. Please enlighten us.

More fancy screenshots here.

And right, training Leadership skills for a Command ship, which uses Links and Boosts, is certainly deadweight.

And if you actually read the skills and not just the number, you'd appreciate his point. It's deadweight skills almost certainly on a wild off-map. Before it was like ... Mechanics, HACs etc

You don't NEED links on a CS - they are highly capable straight up fighters. And if you want to nitpick, the likes of an Eos REQUIRING the shield boosts is just dumb. Or the nighthawk needing to boost all those well known caldari armor tanks.

Perhaps if command ships become more common, the availability of links will go up, not just through alts but also active command ships, and people will stop complaining about links.

And if you actually read the skills and not just the number, you'd appreciate his point. It's deadweight skills almost certainly on a wild off-map. Before it was like ... Mechanics, HACs etc

You don't NEED links on a CS - they are highly capable straight up fighters. And if you want to nitpick, the likes of an Eos REQUIRING the shield boosts is just dumb. Or the nighthawk needing to boost all those well known caldari armor tanks.

The vast majority of people who train the link skills on a character that's not being trained specifically as a link alt will never see any benefit from them whatsoever. This is different from training Cruiser V. People do not fit gang links to combat ships, they fit gang links to ships that are going to park right next to a POS shield or hang out at a safespot in an unprobeable setup.

You'll notice when I made the comparison to capital ships, I didn't include stuff like Drone Interfacing V or Advanced Weapon Upgrades V. Those skills actually do something for your character.

Please show me which LINK skills are on the list.
There is..... One.

Not the five you are trying to pretend are there. ONE!

The other four skills are leadership skills which benefit any gang.

And if you actually read the skills you would know that they DON'T NEED TO TRAIN LINK SKILLS (Other than the Link Specialist to IV).
They only need to train the LEADERSHIP skills that work without any modules on the ship, in any ship you are flying.

Additionally since Links are on a Cha map, the Leadership skills are not a wild off-map for any serious leadership pilot, they are part of the actual map plan.

Finally, you didn't just need to train BC V before to fly CS. You needed the correct Cruiser V as well for each race. So you actually had to train even more skills to V before.

So.... No, your an idiot, normally I wouldn't be so blunt but you are berating others for something you are failing at even more.
Command Ships are fine as they are.

I understand ccp needs a system to keep people playing for years, but what's more fun and engaging: having more toys to play with, or playing several weeks of (mostly) skill queue online when you're a bit bored of running around in frigs and dessies so you're waiting those 40-50 days or so for hacs/t2 medium weapon systems to finish training?

You clearly know more than us. Please enlighten us.

More fancy screenshots here.

And right, training Leadership skills for a Command ship, which uses Links and Boosts, is certainly deadweight.

you act like links is the only use for command ships? i agree with the OP i can fly every combat ship except dictors and heavy dictors and ofc command ships it is ******** that i should train almost all leadership skills to 5 just to sit in it, there is realy no defence for this.

and speaking of this why isnt mining director 5 needed to inject orca or rorqual skills????? because lvl 1 is enough for those ships! i would love to fly command ships without links so tell me why i need to train a **** ton of skills that i dont want/need ???

Orca, requirements.
Mining Foreman V.

Hey, would you look at that, the equivalent leadership skill IS NEEDED
Who'd have thought.

i am talking about DIRECTOR learn to read

to specify as reading isnt your strong suit:
for orca and rorqual you only need mining foreman 5 and mining director 1 for a command ship you need 2 leadership skills @5 and the link skill also @5 that is over 3 times the time sink

Except you don't need the link skills at 5, you don't even need the link skills at 1 for a Command Ship.
You need Warfare specialist at IV, that's the ONLY link skill on the Command Ship requirements.

Mining Director = Link skill. which is NOT on Command Ships at V, or any level for the 4 primary link skills.
Mining Foreman = LEADERSHIP skill, which IS on the Command Ships.

You telling me to learn to read when you fail so badly, hilarious.

What is more rewarding? Being able to fly every common ship in EVE within 1 year or having something to train for and long for for a very long time with a satisfying "Skill Training Completed" after many months of eager waiting? I personally find the latter a whole lot more appealing.

And what is so terrible about flying in Frigs and Desis? FW people do it as the bread and butter every day and don't seem to be too sad about it. In fact, they don't even seem to want to fly something else. Ganking is also only done in destroyers and cheap cruisers/battlecruisers.

A shorter training time for the ship itself also makes especially the newer players use it before they are even remotely capable of properly using it. The ships themselves are not the important part of the training, the myriad of the support skills is what distinguishes the ships capabilities and makes them great. In regard to this I wonder if the OP is just after more Officer spawns in High sec.

damn.... i was wrong

Personal taste I guess, but to me simply waiting for a couple of weeks to pass isn't particularly rewarding. I prefer achievements requiring dedication and practice, such as becoming a quick and effective logi pilot or succesfully handling a 1v3 against similar size ships.

I love frigs and dessies and will probably continue to use them for years to come. They're just not the proper tool for certain jobs.

My point is, I can and will wait patiently for my new toys to train. But who's benefiting from the wait?

Me: I'll fly what I can and maybe go to the beach some more if I don't feel like undocking an af for the 10,000th time.

My mates: will have one less pilot in their hac gang.

My enemies: will have one less dude to shoot at.

Industrialists/traders: will have one less derpy pilot buying ishtars or guardians after he whelps them.


Just sayin that month-long timesinks (especially for relatively common gear) on average decrease, rather than increase, most people's enjoyment of this cool game.

you act like links is the only use for command ships? i agree with the OP i can fly every combat ship except dictors and heavy dictors and ofc command ships it is ******** that i should train almost all leadership skills to 5 just to sit in it, there is realy no defence for this.

and speaking of this why isnt mining director 5 needed to inject orca or rorqual skills????? because lvl 1 is enough for those ships! i would love to fly command ships without links so tell me why i need to train a **** ton of skills that i dont want/need ???

@Rivr Luzade

I wasn't referring to CS specifically, I was making a wider comment on lvl 5 prereqs for T2 ships and weaponry.

HACs are just an example since they're T2 and fairly common in the current lowsec meta.

So, speaking of HACs, how would flying them with racial Cruiser 4 (instead of 5, if it were possible) be 'terrible piloting'? Wouldn't it be roughly equivalent to flying them with HAC 4 instead of 5, which I'm sure many people already do with acceptable effectiveness?

could support taking armour skills off minni/caldari,
shield off amarr/gallente,
e-war off minni/gallente,
skirmish off caldari/amarr

but just like needing propulsion jamming and some science skills for hictors, it makes sense to require leadership skills for command ships.

The leadership skills only benefit your gang if you're the only one in the gang to have them, otherwise they do nothing.

But seriously, be honest here. If you only looked at characters created after the patch that changed the command ship skill requirements, and compared the number of pilots that can fly a command ship to the number of pilots that can fly, say, marauders or hictors, (which have similar prereqs in terms of # of raw SP) you don't think that the number of CS pilots wouldn't be a third of the other two categories or less?

People fly 100+ fleets of Tengus. People fly 100+ fleets of Ishtars. You're never going to see a 100+ Vulture fleet, even though it's similar in power level and application to the former two ships.