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Open Season on Indy pilots in Empire!!!

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Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:43:00 - [91] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Bhaal Well, adding fines does not change those tools one bit. If you can't afford it, don't ******* do it... Nothing wrong with trying to curb asshats from running rampant in high sec for the petty version of this crime. It should be in the hands of the players Bhaal. If they are dumb enough to make themselves a juicy and easy target, they deserve to die. They can prevent it, but they don't They don't need pandering to, they need educating. Then maybe we need to get rid of all fines for criminals in RL? I make myself a juicy target for carjackers everyday... I see nothing wrong with making them pay for their actions in high sec space. They can still win if they are smart, and select the right target. The situation now is you have a bunch of copycats doing this because the loss is too insignificant. Up the risk. If you're going to go after a 20 bill BPO, or even a boat filled with mega/zyd, a couple hundred mill risk is not that much... A deterrent is sorely needed. It would leave that "career" to those that are really good at it, not every retard who can stand a bit of sec loss... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
cant spell	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:46:00 - [92] Just to summerize this thread so far .... - Player pirates and players that prey off others within the game think that there is nothing wrong with the game as it is. - There are a few older players that have the view that something should be done to discourage this more while inside empire. - Some players (probably the people inside empire being the ones preyed on) think thats its a completely unfair system as it stands and needs changing. There's also a few details that seem to have got exaggerated/changed: - Although I titled this thread "Open Season on Indies" .. it was meant to mean open season on all people who play in empire in defenceless ships and was targeted at the game mechanic's making it so easy for peoplt to pirate and get away with it. In 0.0 systems, they are controlled (or attempted to be controlled) by alliances and as such are policed by them, Empire on the other hand is suppose to be for the smaller groups/single player who are unable to fully protect themselves but still want to play the game. The ability to pirate in empire that is becoming more apparent is going to stop people being able to play this way and still enjoy the game. - For the people that have said "you haven't said what you lost or how" well I haven't lost anything, I've been playing since beta and tend to know how to avoid loosing ships but when I got to hear about this going on I wanted to say something as I believe if it continues it will have a negative effect on the empire community as a hole. People play eve in lots of different ways, for the people who put down others by saying they play he game stupidly, open your eyes and try looking at it from a diferent point of view.... this game has done so well because of its diversity, taking away the safety (and I'm not saying make it impossible to blow someone up, just asking for a "just" penalty) of empire means you are taking away some peoples game play. oh... nice ryhm you made there Avon ... but easy to just stand there saying "shutup whinning" when you are a member of probably one of the strongest forces in Eve with little or no need to worry about such issues....
R3dSh1ft	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:47:00 - [93] Boost hauler hitpoints so they can't be one-volleyed Sick of these threads now ______________________________________
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:47:00 - [94] Wait .. I thought this was a game, not real life? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:48:00 - [95] Originally by: R3dSh1ft Boost hauler hitpoints so they can't be one-volleyed Sick of these threads now They already exist. Next. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
R3dSh1ft	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:50:00 - [96] not talking about t2 haulers remember when cruisers got a boost? do the same for haulers... ______________________________________
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:51:00 - [97] Originally by: Avon Wait .. I thought this was a game, not real life? Since when can common sense about breaking the law not enter into a game? Fines would not eliminate the ability to grief in this manner you find so precious Avon, it would simply be a deterrent for every Joe Shmo to start playing this way... If it was up to you, we'd still be playing the beta version of EVE, and we'd still have only 3000 simultaneous players all griefing each other to hell and back... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:52:00 - [98] Originally by: cant spell oh... nice ryhm you made there Avon ... but easy to just stand there saying "shutup whinning" when you are a member of probably one of the strongest forces in Eve with little or no need to worry about such issues.... Yup, we use loads of special game mechanics to protect us from the unwanted actions of other players. Oh wait, we don't. It isn't like I have always been in BoB either, so don't even try to bring that in as a factor, because it isn't. I used to have a nice hauler alt (now since departed) who faced all these issues. Got attacked a fair few times, but never killed. It isn't impossible, hell, it isn't even hard. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Fly Catcher	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:52:00 - [99] Too easy for them, too many of them. Maybe paranoid but I chose not to take some implants upto Jita to see the buy prices the other day because I was in a kessie, and even a couple of +3 implants is a good result for such an easy kill. The bar is too low - if you are carrying hundreds of mils worth then fine, you should be more careful, but if carrying relatively lowly items is considered risky then you've gone too far. I've been shot at in a Viator before btw, by sopme kessies - must have thought I was an it4, only had some hangar crap I was relocating with too (50m maybe).
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:53:00 - [100] The issue is one of balance, not one of the base mechanics behind it. You can argue that the treshold at which it's worth suiciding a BS in high sec is too low atm, and argue for it to be made somewhat higher. However, as soon as you argue for it to be made so high that no more high sec piracy will take place, you are in all effect arguing for removal of the possibility, and that makes yours an argument agaionst the basic security system, not the balancing of it. It's the latter I disagree with, much like it's the case with all the whines about the war system. The former however, I can agree with. It's rather silly that you technically would have to haul everythign worth over 50m in a ship that can withstand the suicide of a BS, and everything over 100m in one that can withstand the suicide of two... etc. So yes, balance issue, let's talk. Feature issue ? Stop whining. Old blog
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:55:00 - [101] You all can waaa waaa waaa as much as you like but you will never stop suicide ganks. The mother of all suicide ganks is greed. n00b in 3 days old alt in hauler cant possess > 200M worth of loot. Vets who are lazy to haul 50M a time to hubs and want to haul one month's worth of loot amounting to billions in a week's old alt deserve to be ganked. Bhaal's proposal to deter suicide ganks is nice on paper. In practice, high stake gankings are bound to happen because people become more daring to store more stuffs into "Gank Me" ships. Moral of the story. Dont be greedy. Greed is bad mmmm'kay? Tell that to those Hawk resellers after Hawk update. Do multiple hauls. Dont try to quickly sell stuffs in Jita. Greedy gankers will ignore you if you arent greedy yourselves. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
cant spell	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:55:00 - [102] Originally by: Avon Wait .. I thought this was a game, not real life? your so witty.... exactly! play for fun, as in everyone gets to have some and not just you....
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.29 10:56:00 - [103] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Avon Wait .. I thought this was a game, not real life? Since when can common sense about breaking the law not enter into a game? Fines would not eliminate the ability to grief in this manner you find so precious Avon, it would simply be a deterrent for every Joe Shmo to start playing this way... If it was up to you, we'd still be playing the beta version of EVE, and we'd still have only 3000 simultaneous players all griefing each other to hell and back... We would? Just because people get upset does not make this griefing. It isn't, no matter how much you want it to be. This is a game about player interaction. Game mechanics should only be in place when there is no other practical option, and that is not the case here. Now, stop with the insults and stick to the subject, k? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:03:00 - [104] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 29/06/2006 11:05:06 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Rod Blaine I agree. 200m is a nice figure, if you remove insurance from concord-deaths you end up with a figure of about 100m. Add a penalty of another 100m for stealing from a victims' can and you're about there. I'd rather have the penalty on the stealing then the penalty on the shooting ebcause then it allows a lower treshold for auiciding just to cause damage, which is imo a very valid gameplay option when it concerns ingame enemies, evne if it's not used much. If the thief is an alt, fining it would make no difference. Sure it would, negative wallet -> account sub suspension it's no biggie tho, if it wont work simply double the fine for the killing. I'm pretty convinced thee's something of a balance issue at wwork here. I still don't beleive in protection for the idiots that haul 3b in assets in a badger I tho, don't worry Old blog
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:09:00 - [105] Originally by: Rod Blaine Sure it would, negative wallet -> account sub suspension Doesn't happen like that now. Are you proposing a system where I could have my account suspended after having a ship reimbursed, and the insurance payout removed? Ultimately the question is, is this a situation which the victims have no control over, and so game mechanics are required to protect them? I say no. Personally I think it is all a bit sad, but that doesn't mean it should be patched out of the game. I can think of occasions where ganks would still happen (and rightly so), even if it was unprofitable. However, NPC corps vs Starter corps is a whole new topic. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:12:00 - [106] Edited by: Bhaal on 29/06/2006 11:16:12 Quote: I'd rather have the penalty on the stealing then the penalty on the shooting ebcause then it allows a lower treshold for auiciding just to cause damage, which is imo a very valid gameplay option when it concerns ingame enemies, evne if it's not used much. Ore thieves & macro miner vigilantes would be put out of business however... Unless the game can distinguish between a jet can and a PC loot can? Also would not want fines for looting PC cans in 0.0, lol Killing just to damage the player, that's what corp war is for... (I know the NPC corp issue, that's a different topic) ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Novarei	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:30:00 - [107] ssdd --------------------
Zillazuki	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:40:00 - [108] From a storyline/RP point of view it makes no sense that Concord wouldn't step up their security measures in light of these recent incidents. Someone within their organisation would look at the situation and think "hmmm, we really should increase our response to these criminal acts". It is their responsibility to ensure that people have as safe passage through Empire space as possible and if they are failing at their job then they are accountable. With all the resources at their disposal they should be able to do something.
Donna Divine	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:48:00 - [109] Originally by: Zillazuki From a storyline/RP point of view it makes no sense that Concord wouldn't step up their security measures in light of these recent incidents. Someone within their organisation would look at the situation and think "hmmm, we really should increase our response to these criminal acts". It is their responsibility to ensure that people have as safe passage through Empire space as possible and if they are failing at their job then they are accountable. With all the resources at their disposal they should be able to do something. From an RP standpoint concord isn't a police force, but a stability force desinged to keep the empires from getting into one-another's hair. Concord isn't there to prevent stuff from blowing up, it's there to prevent political situations from blowing up. It's like the UN, not like your local cops. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gilded Goose Brokerages Trading to order.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:49:00 - [110] Originally by: Donna Divine Originally by: Zillazuki From a storyline/RP point of view it makes no sense that Concord wouldn't step up their security measures in light of these recent incidents. Someone within their organisation would look at the situation and think "hmmm, we really should increase our response to these criminal acts". It is their responsibility to ensure that people have as safe passage through Empire space as possible and if they are failing at their job then they are accountable. With all the resources at their disposal they should be able to do something. From an RP standpoint concord isn't a police force, but a stability force desinged to keep the empires from getting into one-another's hair. Concord isn't there to prevent stuff from blowing up, it's there to prevent political situations from blowing up. It's like the UN, not like your local cops. And Concord is very corrupted. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
fire 59	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:54:00 - [111] Originally by: Zillazuki From a storyline/RP point of view it makes no sense that Concord wouldn't step up their security measures in light of these recent incidents. Someone within their organisation would look at the situation and think "hmmm, we really should increase our response to these criminal acts". It is their responsibility to ensure that people have as safe passage through Empire space as possible and if they are failing at their job then they are accountable. With all the resources at their disposal they should be able to do something. They'd also want to make the public more aware of what they can do to help them do there job effectively, ie dont walk about with your wallet hanging out, don't walk to and from the bank with billions on you without security or measures taken beforehand. Can't expect them to do eveerything for you, have to use your own initiative to survive also Iron and G eat babie's , my views are my own, they do not refect my corp or my alliance
Kamikazi ONE	Posted - 2006.06.29 11:55:00 - [112] A couple of things I'd like to see changed that would help the hauler defend themselves, and not affect balance too much. 1) If you are locked by another ship you should be able to attempt to jam their targetting without you being flagged as the attacker. 2) If you are fired on by a ship, all members of your gang/escorts should be to fire at the attacker without being ganked by Concord. Also, sort of related to this topic : How much protection does a hauler need in order to survice long enough for Concord to arrive and gank the attackers ? If you fill the MIDs on a Mammoth with extenders you can get about 3.5k shields, is that enough in most situations ?
Prestis	Posted - 2006.06.29 12:42:00 - [113] Edited by: Prestis on 29/06/2006 12:42:46 Quote: From a storyline/RP point of view it makes no sense that Concord wouldn't step up their security measures in light of these recent incidents. Someone within their organisation would look at the situation and think "hmmm, we really should increase our response to these criminal acts". It is their responsibility to ensure that people have as safe passage through Empire space as possible and if they are failing at their job then they are accountable. With all the resources at their disposal they should be able to do something. From an RP perspective, CONCORD should turn up 20 minutes late and solve about 5% of all crimes in total, just like real police forces!
Cheyenne Shadowborn	Posted - 2006.06.29 13:55:00 - [114] Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 29/06/2006 13:55:39 Originally by: Donna Divine blowing up, it's there to prevent political situations from blowing up. It's like the UN, not like your local cops. Yeah. Its like the UN that nukes you when you accidentially squash someone else's empty coke can on the street. Go Concord! ----------------------------------------------------- "At least freelancer keeps the physics realistic." -- SINKFIST
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.06.29 14:08:00 - [115] take a secure can, fill it up with 100k junk BMs(the secure can prevents DB load when you open the trunk for day to day use). place in indy. the fill indy with megacyte and be on your way. now this has a twofold effect, the first and most important is that cargo scanners see past the cans so there is a chance that their scan window will fill with BMs. second is the nasty suprise if they blow up the indy when they ***** the loot can. though this is considered an exploit but then again its their choice to suicide gank and get stuck looting the BMs.
Donna Divine	Posted - 2006.06.29 14:12:00 - [116] "though this is considered an exploit " correct, dn't be surprised when you lose your cargo AND get a GM paying you a visit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gilded Goose Brokerages Trading to order.
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.29 14:18:00 - [117] Originally by: Donna Divine From an RP standpoint concord isn't a police force, but a stability force desinged to keep the empires from getting into one-another's hair. Hey I was just thinking about this argument from last thread about highsec gank griefers when I was passing by some gate near Oursulaert and lots of CONCORD ships around - they were named CONCORD Police Officer, CONCORD Police Commander etc. So they are not police but they call themselves police, do I understand it correctly? Maybe there is a CONCORD division which is designated to keep peace in space and maybe there is also police division which is supposed to keep highsec systems safe from criminals? ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.06.29 14:20:00 - [118] Team Concord: Galaxy Police......
Dreamdancer	Posted - 2006.06.29 14:47:00 - [119] Just a little FYI specs.... Friend in my corp took an alt out and purposely attacked someone and got blown up by Concord in 1.0 and 0.5 and timed it. 8-9 seconds for Concord to show up in 1.0. 16-18 seconds in 0.5 sec. Now considering the max toughness of an indy, even with plates, a Raven is gonna pop that sucker easily in 0.5 before he himself is popped. All for increasing the penalties for "high sec" crimes and making Concord tougher as like the OP said many players are a lot more skilled these days. (the person that was attacked was someone willing part of the experiment)
Helen Tranter	Posted - 2006.06.29 14:47:00 - [120] Originally by: cant spell Open Season on Indy pilots in Empire!!! It seems to becoming a trend to pirate in empire by running suicide camp operations. Pirates are camping gates, scanning cargo holds looking for valuable cargo's, when they find one they blow the ship up and because Concorde is slow and now compared to the current ships/char skills so week, they are able to do this before they get blown up by Concorde. Basically this is how they are doing it... - Building a ship on the cheap - Equipping it with tech1 equipment and any loot they have lying around - Insure it to the max - Go camp a gate with a friend that is scanning all Indies that pass bye Get CCP to make scanning count as agression so you are only allowed to scan war targets, but then there would be no point to useing ship scanners and many players would loose out on some good fun. This form of pirating makes it risky for peeps useing weak alt haulers. Plate your our haulers up, you have enough low slots Helen

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