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Lilith Shea
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 19:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I've been doing PI for awhile now but so far my process has been mostly HULK SMASH!!! Mine everything I can, if a factory runs out it runs out I'll supply it when I log in and restart my programs, etc. etc.
I think it's about time I really understand how PI works, the mechanics or resource regeneration, and production chain efficiency. First a little background about my PI. Usually I PI for POS fuel, always in demand, makes my POS self reliant, I mine my own ice so no importing required, so on and so forth. I have Command Center Upgrades 5, remote Sensing 5, Planetology 4, Adv Planetology 3, and have field 6 planets. Here is the chain I normally use for P3 production
Extractor -> Launchpad -> Basic Industry -> Adv Industry -> Adv Industry -> Launchpad
I'm not quite sure how best to extract resources, it is better to strip mine out a planet and store the excess in silos, rinse repeat everyday so I never run out. Or would it be better to mine just enough to maintain 100% uptime on my factories so I can avoid depleting a hotspot. To answer this I have the question. Is it possible to setup an extraction program where I've found a happy medium between the resources incoming and factories producing so all I have to do is restart the program, minimal extractor head relocation. Can you get to a point where you balance your number of factories and resource extraction so you never have to relocate the heads, just restart the program for another day?
With production and harvesting planets which is more reliable. Typically my setup is 5 harvesting 1 production. But is it better to produce P1 on my harvesting planet before transferring to my production planet (to save on space and free up workload to allow for more P3 production.) Or would it be better to strip mine 5 harvesting planets and give all the work to a production planet (gives the production a vast amount of resources so it never runs out.) Is it more efficient to have 5 pure harvesting planets and 1 pure production planet or should they all share at least the P0 to P1 work and production makes P2 and P3?
As far as transferring resources on the planet, I'd like to make use of Silos to stockpile resources. Normally I run extractor to command center to factories to launchpad. It works just fine but if I don't get a chance to log in my programs will stop and production will cease. To combat this I feel that using SIlos to stockpile resources is the best decision. The only problem I've run across is the whole no storage to storage transfer. I've never used SIlos before and I don't want to waste a ton of ISK moving buildings and re-creating links. How can I get from the silo to launchpad without the use of expedited transfer?
I don't care about producing a million units of POS fuel a day, I just want to get my yield as high as possible with no extractor head adjustment (or a minimum), and 100% factory uptime. |

Leoric Firesword
Dark Fusion Industries
35
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 20:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
I do:
extractor->silo->factories (P1)->launchpad
I tend to try to keep my silos 1/2 to 3/4 full of product, keeps me from having to move heads, and if I miss a day I don't always empty out the silo since silos hold considerably more PI than the command center (I never link the command center to anything)
you can do an expedited transfer from a silo to a launch pad or vice versa I do this sometimes when I have to move extractor heads far away from my base.
for my robotics setup its 4 extraction planets, 1 factory planet (P2 and P3) |

Lilith Shea
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 20:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Leoric Firesword wrote:I do:
extractor->silo->factories (P1)->launchpad
I tend to try to keep my silos 1/2 to 3/4 full of product, keeps me from having to move heads, and if I miss a day I don't always empty out the silo since silos hold considerably more PI than the command center (I never link the command center to anything)
you can do an expedited transfer from a silo to a launch pad or vice versa I do this sometimes when I have to move extractor heads far away from my base.
for my robotics setup its 4 extraction planets, 1 factory planet (P2 and P3)
But how about a silo in between the factory and the launchpad? Essentially 1 silo holds the raw components, 1 silo holds P1. Yea I know about expedited transfer but I want to avoid that in this setup. Looks like your planet setup is pretty similar to what I have now, I just wasn't sure if this is optimal.
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Starden Arnolles
Phoibe Enterprises
19
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 21:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
No expert as I just started but I do:
Extractors->Silo->Command Center->two different Basic Industry->Advanced Industry->Silo
Launchpad is there for when enough of the end product is garnered to justify a launch. |

Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
52
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
You shouldn't go from factory to factory, buffer it with some sort of storage like silos or launch pad. You can't create routes between storage faculties. You can create a route that spans multiple links. So always route productto storage and then to the next factory. |

Starden Arnolles
Phoibe Enterprises
19
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 01:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thank you for that suggestion. I will make those changes the next time around. |

Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
92
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 08:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Personally I believe there are 2 ways to run PI. The lazy way and the hard way. (Lazy, I choose you. )
The lazy way is to produce P2 on each planet and leave it at that (maybe 1 Factory planet for multiple accounts or P3 products) . Each planet has 2 Extractors , and Factories to produce the P2 parts. I personally use 3 of each (3 Basics for each P1 and 3 Advanced to product P2) , then its just a matter of finding a balance between the two P0 extraction .
Extractor -> Launch Pad -> Basic Factory -> Launch Pad -> Advanced Factory-> Launch Pad
This limits the amount of work you have yo do. Very little PI moving, Very compact product , No expediting . With the 3X3 set-up I run you can get 300+ P2 units per planet per day.
The not lazy method is to produce P1 and move that to Factory planets. Even a bad planet will fill a launch pad in 3 days with 6+ basic factories. Then you just need a tonne of Silos, Factories and Launch pads on the factory planet to taste.
Extractor -> Launch Pad -> Basic Factory -> Launch Pad |

Lilith Shea
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 13:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aerie Evingod wrote:You shouldn't go from factory to factory, buffer it with some sort of storage like silos or launch pad. You can't create routes between storage faculties. You can create a route that spans multiple links. So always route productto storage and then to the next factory.
You can go from factory to factory if you go from a basic to an advanced. The basic has a 30 minute cycle time and the advanced 60 minute. The advances needs 40 input and basic outputs 20. So every 2 cycles of a basic = 1 advanced. After 4 cycles your advanced will always be producing and have a full hopper for the next cycle. Assuming your basic doesn't stop that is.
Andrew Indy wrote:Personally I believe there are 2 ways to run PI. The lazy way and the hard way. (Lazy, I choose you. )
The lazy way is to produce P2 on each planet and leave it at that (maybe 1 Factory planet for multiple accounts or P3 products) . Each planet has 2 Extractors , and Factories to produce the P2 parts. I personally use 3 of each (3 Basics for each P1 and 3 Advanced to product P2) , then its just a matter of finding a balance between the two P0 extraction .
Extractor -> Launch Pad -> Basic Factory -> Launch Pad -> Advanced Factory-> Launch Pad
This limits the amount of work you have yo do. Very little PI moving, Very compact product , No expediting . With the 3X3 set-up I run you can get 300+ P2 units per planet per day.
The not lazy method is to produce P1 and move that to Factory planets. Even a bad planet will fill a launch pad in 3 days with 6+ basic factories. Then you just need a tonne of Silos, Factories and Launch pads on the factory planet to taste.
Extractor -> Launch Pad -> Basic Factory -> Launch Pad
I agree lazy all the way, but I also want max efficiency =\ with 3 basic and 3 advanced that leaves open too many cycles not producing anything. You could get away with 2 basic and 2 advanced which frees up more cpu/pg for more extractors. I also use my launchpad as a main hub, but I don't know how to incorporate silo storages for resource/product overflow/holding. I was thinking about Extractor -> Silo -> Basic Factory (P1) -> Silo -> Command Center (don't know if this counts as a storage) -> Launchpad. I haven't had a chance to try it out but doesn't that technically break the storage to storage limit and still stay within the 6 routes maximum?
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Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
52
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 14:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lilith Shea wrote:Aerie Evingod wrote:You shouldn't go from factory to factory, buffer it with some sort of storage like silos or launch pad. You can't create routes between storage faculties. You can create a route that spans multiple links. So always route productto storage and then to the next factory. You can go from factory to factory if you go from a basic to an advanced. The basic has a 30 minute cycle time and the advanced 60 minute. The advances needs 40 input and basic outputs 20. So every 2 cycles of a basic = 1 advanced. After 4 cycles your advanced will always be producing and have a full hopper for the next cycle. Assuming your basic doesn't stop that is.
The problem with that is if the advanced factory buffer is full and the basic finishes first then you lose those basic factory products, especially an issue if one raw material is in excess of another. Factories can also get out of sync by the nature in which they move raw materials and products. |

Lilith Shea
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 14:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aerie Evingod wrote:Lilith Shea wrote:Aerie Evingod wrote:You shouldn't go from factory to factory, buffer it with some sort of storage like silos or launch pad. You can't create routes between storage faculties. You can create a route that spans multiple links. So always route productto storage and then to the next factory. You can go from factory to factory if you go from a basic to an advanced. The basic has a 30 minute cycle time and the advanced 60 minute. The advances needs 40 input and basic outputs 20. So every 2 cycles of a basic = 1 advanced. After 4 cycles your advanced will always be producing and have a full hopper for the next cycle. Assuming your basic doesn't stop that is. The problem with that is if the advanced factory buffer is full and the basic finishes first then you lose those basic factory products, especially an issue if one raw material is in excess of another. Factories can also get out of sync by the nature in which they move raw materials and products.
Hrm, didnt think the game took into account transfer time of finished products =\ ok yea then in that case a buffer between the 2 would definitely be necessary. The new optimum route would be:
Extractor -> Silo -> Basic -> Silo/Command/Launchpad -> Adv Factory -> Command Center -> Launchpad
Extractor Strips, Silo hold excess P0, Basic 100% up time, S/C/L acts as buffer for "transport lag", Adv 100% up time, Command to hold excess P2, Launchpad for main P2 holding. This should be the minimum required structures, so I can focus on maximizing the extractor heads. |

Lilith Shea
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 14:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Does anyone know anything about reaching a balancing point between planet resource generation and my extraction rate?
No matter if it regens real time or only at server restart there should theoretically be a point where no extractor movement is necessary and just a program refresh needed.
BTW, when I say no extractor movement, I mean moving the heads around and the program length is fie, I just dont want to have to destroy my extraction unit and rebuild it and its link and routes. |

Li Quiao
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
60
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 16:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lilith Shea wrote: Extractor -> Launchpad -> Basic Industry -> Adv Industry -> Adv Industry -> Launchpad
Better to just route everything through the launchpad: Extractor -> Launchpad -> Basic Industry -> Launchpad -> Adv Industry -> Launchpad -> Adv Industry -> Launchpad
That way you've got a buffer to hold any overage if you're not in balance.
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Lilith Shea
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 16:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Li Quiao wrote:Lilith Shea wrote: Extractor -> Launchpad -> Basic Industry -> Adv Industry -> Adv Industry -> Launchpad
Better to just route everything through the launchpad: Extractor -> Launchpad -> Basic Industry -> Launchpad -> Adv Industry -> Launchpad -> Adv Industry -> Launchpad That way you've got a buffer to hold any overage if you're not in balance.
Agreed, but I don't want a launchpad full of all types of product. I was hoping to incorporate the silos so I don't have a launchpad full of P0 waiting to be used and no room for my P1 or P2. Plus it looks nicer and more organized :-p |

Zaxix
Long Jump.
392
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 18:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've recently been using a multiple planet setup. I have 5 planets per character (2 characters atm), 2 are factory planets, 3 are extraction planets. I'm in nosec, so the outputs are much greater than hi/losec.
On the factory planets, I use 3 spaceports, 6 adv factories, and 12 basic. Two of the spaceports hold P0 (one for each type used) and the third handles all P1 and P2 materials, plus a little extra P0 as buffer if I don't log on in time to refill everything.
The extraction planets are 2 sets of 1 extractor and 1 spaceport (4 facilities total). They chase hotspots and at 945000 ISK, they are cheaply replaced if I move to a new hotspot.
To start things off, I extracted for a weekend to build up an initial supply of P0. Then I built the factories and fed them the P0. I let it go over night to build a P1 stockpile. Then I cranked up the advanced factories. This leaves me with a buffer of a few hours worth of P1 materials if I don't log in at the right time. I stayed on top of the extraction for 3 weeks (i'm in week 4 now) to maximize my stockpile of P0. Once I've got a good buffer supply of P0, I'll give the extraction planets longer run times (e.g. a week or two) to slowly backfill the reserves at about the daily rate of factory planet consumption, but without the daily extraction upkeep. I've currently built up about a 14-day buffer for 24 adv processors. Once I have command center 5 (next week), I can increase the amount of materials stored on the factory planets so that I only have to refill things once every two days. I expect to reach the point where my total time spent maintaining the operation will be around 2 or 3 hrs a week max, spread out over many days.
Just another way to do it. Trying to do everything on a single planet leaves you in the position of having to worry about equilibrium and all that jazz. This method gets you past the point of needing to deal with equilibrium at all. Bokononist
-á |

Lilith Shea
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 19:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:I've recently been using a multiple planet setup. I have 5 planets per character (2 characters atm), 2 are factory planets, 3 are extraction planets. I'm in nosec, so the outputs are much greater than hi/losec.
On the factory planets, I use 3 spaceports, 6 adv factories, and 12 basic. Two of the spaceports hold P0 (one for each type used) and the third handles all P1 and P2 materials, plus a little extra P0 as buffer if I don't log on in time to refill everything.
The extraction planets are 2 sets of 1 extractor and 1 spaceport (4 facilities total). They chase hotspots and at 945000 ISK, they are cheaply replaced if I move to a new hotspot.
To start things off, I extracted for a weekend to build up an initial supply of P0. Then I built the factories and fed them the P0. I let it go over night to build a P1 stockpile. Then I cranked up the advanced factories. This leaves me with a buffer of a few hours worth of P1 materials if I don't log in at the right time. I stayed on top of the extraction for 3 weeks (i'm in week 4 now) to maximize my stockpile of P0. Once I've got a good buffer supply of P0, I'll give the extraction planets longer run times (e.g. a week or two) to slowly backfill the reserves at about the daily rate of factory planet consumption, but without the daily extraction upkeep. I've currently built up about a 14-day buffer for 24 adv processors. Once I have command center 5 (next week), I can increase the amount of materials stored on the factory planets so that I only have to refill things once every two days. I expect to reach the point where my total time spent maintaining the operation will be around 2 or 3 hrs a week max, spread out over many days.
Just another way to do it. Trying to do everything on a single planet leaves you in the position of having to worry about equilibrium and all that jazz. This method gets you past the point of needing to deal with equilibrium at all.
I really like your setup and this is more in line with what I wanted to make mine into. Least amount of work possible to still produce a passive income steam. I might try something similar to this on my planets. Thanks
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Zaxix
Long Jump.
392
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
To clarify, the first part of the plan is not passive and does mean you need to log in twice a day to empty the extraction spaceports into the Customs Office and one of those times you have to empty it to a hauler. You can skip this step if you buy your first few weeks of materials. It will also work a little differently if you create P3/P4 with the hitech processors along with the P1 production. I'm doing pure P2 atm, so I'm maximizing with that in mind.
Results will vary greatly by where you're doing the PI. In nosec or WH, the volume from a single extractor with 10 heads is sufficient to pump out enough of one of the necessaryP0's for one whole factory planet (assuming you're chasing white spots and red zones). I use 2 to build a really big buffer. I imagine with the buffering of production, you could actually chase all kinds of different P0 materials on planets and feed a full P4 production chain.
Good luck! Bokononist
-á |

Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
92
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 08:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Working with P0 is a pain though. its so large that you have to more it all the time. At least do P1 on each planet.
Better off just having less factory planets and just have Double the number of Advanced Factories on the factory planet.
Quote:I agree lazy all the way, but I also want max efficiency =\ with 3 basic and 3 advanced that leaves open too many cycles not producing anything. You could get away with 2 basic and 2 advanced which frees up more cpu/pg for more extractors. I also use my launchpad as a main hub, but I don't know how to incorporate silo storages for resource/product overflow/holding. I was thinking about Extractor -> Silo -> Basic Factory (P1) -> Silo -> Command Center (don't know if this counts as a storage) -> Launchpad. I haven't had a chance to try it out but doesn't that technically break the storage to storage limit and still stay within the 6 routes maximum?
In a WH or good plant in Low/HS 3 and 3 can work with extra P0 left over. Some not so much.
Most of my planets have 7 basic and 3 Advanced and the Extra P1 is used to run a second P2 planet that only extracts 1 type of P0 (ice planet making Enriched uranium)
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