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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
387
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Posted - 2014.07.27 13:57:00 -
[91] - Quote
Armitrage Outamon wrote:Brutus Crendraven wrote:Hi,
I was pleased to see an overhaul of the manufacturing but shocked to see one significant change that affects wormhole life.
How could there be a cost to running jobs in Wormhole space? Concord etc do not provide any protection in lawless unknown space. They contribute nothing and therefore should attract nothing.
So imagine my suprise when a copy job costs ISK! It doesn't directly say Tax, therefore how do I attribute the cost?
WH is a tax haven with additional risks, WH space is lawless and lastly, is WH space being marginalised out of the game. I say this due to the ever decreasing active players due to mechanic changes.
No jump gates no beacons no police no cost Sign, and the next thing is why are the installation costs for jobs substracted from the corps research account and not from your personal?
Because they're usually corp jobs and should be subtracted from the corp account. An option to use personal account for certain situations would be nice though. |
Red Teufel
Phobia.
383
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Posted - 2014.07.27 14:51:00 -
[92] - Quote
Imagine how broken it would be in the current system to not get taxed in a WH. just imagine the only way to make a decent profit was in WH space. EvE would die and the economy would tank. |
HerrBert
V0LTA Triumvirate.
471
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 15:23:00 -
[93] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:Imagine how broken it would be in the current system to not get taxed in a WH. just imagine the only way to make a decent profit was in WH space. EvE would die and the economy would tank.
What a world we could imagine... Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
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Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
83
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Posted - 2014.07.27 15:52:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Flippant Remark Then
CCP Fozzie wrote: Damage Control - Too Little Too Late.
Your little magic elves "Teams", the infinite assembly lines, and the System Wide based tax assessment are the three features you forced down our throats which I find the most infuriating in this last release.
The magical "teams" are a horrible idea and whoever thought of them should feel bad. Instead there should have been a series of collaborative tools to let Industrialists be able to work in their individual cells yet harness other related operational cells in constructive manners. (i.e. ability to que subcomponents, minerals w/ delivery schedules, and ongoing payment cycles etc).
The infinite Assembly Lines are just a terrible thing no matter how you cut it. I am sorry Fozzie but I am not buying your excuses at all for this. Here you are acting like CCP provided the myriad of lines out of the goodness of their hearts in order to enable economy of scale production. However this flies straight in the face of what CCP previously stated. In the overhyped ramp up to Crisus there were the fun discussions about the vital need to spread industry out across a larger portion of EVE because only a relatively small portion of EVE NPC stations were being utilized for a large portion of production. The introduction of Infinite Assembly Lines flies straight in the face of this objective.
I understand the idea of having adjusted fees for use in stations... NPC or Outpost. However this fee should be determined based on utilization in JUST that one station/outpost. Why do costs for a POS go up because a station on the other end of the solar system is being overworked? That reeks of the result of poorly generalized coding. Additionally POS, are being perpetually paid via their fuel costs. Making POS owners double pay is just a slap in the face, be it HS, LS, NPC 0.0, SOV, or WH. (Now if POS owners wish to pay an ISK fee for an OPTIONAL PREMIUM Rushed Service... that would be another issue.)
If you want to start the whole "lets pay for support staff" angle though I am fully on board, but only if it is universally applied. By your own logic, ships should charge 1% of their value each time you shift them from Packaged to Assembled form. Also ships that never dock, should probably have ongoing monthly sustainment Fees. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1389
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Posted - 2014.07.27 17:28:00 -
[95] - Quote
There shouldn't even be POS's in wormholes. The Tears Must Flow |
Shevai Asan
The Night Crew The Night Crew Alliance
63
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Posted - 2014.07.27 17:37:00 -
[96] - Quote
Fozzie's Wall of Text:
Quote:It is true that the fact that some other areas of the game (such as starships) do not require upkeep costs and this represents an inconsistency, but adding upkeep costs to ships would not be a beneficial change to the gameplay of EVE at this time.
Next expansion! Whoooo! Heard it here first!
Vaju Enki wrote:There shouldn't even be POS's in wormholes.
If they did'nt want people living in WH space; all they had to do was goto the line of code that allows one to anchor and then turn on a tower in the system.
They didn't, and the glorious 'sandbox' of EVE rushed to fill the void. Now they have to accept that the players made something out of their nothing. Oh no! They created their own content. For shaaaaaame.
Nice bait, would reply again. =] |
Carlos Agathon
Grumpy Bastards No Response
9
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Posted - 2014.07.27 17:48:00 -
[97] - Quote
ITT: Indy-carebears whining a lot and quality posting by those who don't do industry.
I, for one, already look forward to getting the best teams for my starships once they are implemented. More damage, speed and tank, just by spending a bit of money. It's gonna be awesome! |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
801
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Posted - 2014.07.27 18:02:00 -
[98] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Marox Calendale wrote: But why did you do this awkward way using the corp wallet instead of taking the money directly from the Person who is installing the Job?
The industry team in Game of Drones are actually adding the ability to pay for starbase jobs with your personal wallet at the moment. They'll have it implemented as soon as possible. This better be optional... yes? Speaking of options... there are almost none in the current industry UI. Is this a fundamental shift in CCP's thinking of reducing option and settings menu so the client is less scary to noobies? Are we moving towards one size fits all UI? Or is this just the result of a last minute production and better UI, options, settings will follow soon?
Yes it will be optional, you will be able to select either personal or corporation wallet for jobs, provided you have access to the corporation wallet. Otherwise just personal wallet. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Mizhir
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
66278
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Posted - 2014.07.27 18:12:00 -
[99] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Marox Calendale wrote: But why did you do this awkward way using the corp wallet instead of taking the money directly from the Person who is installing the Job?
The industry team in Game of Drones are actually adding the ability to pay for starbase jobs with your personal wallet at the moment. They'll have it implemented as soon as possible. This better be optional... yes? Speaking of options... there are almost none in the current industry UI. Is this a fundamental shift in CCP's thinking of reducing option and settings menu so the client is less scary to noobies? Are we moving towards one size fits all UI? Or is this just the result of a last minute production and better UI, options, settings will follow soon? Yes it will be optional, you will be able to select either personal or corporation wallet for jobs, provided you have access to the corporation wallet. Otherwise just personal wallet.
Just noticed your sig. LOL One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere Republic of the 5phere
859
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Posted - 2014.07.27 18:38:00 -
[100] - Quote
Though i don't particularly care all that much about this added cost to manufacturing, it's small potato's really, I do agree that it makes no sense for wh-space. Its concord for highsec, but unions for wormholes? I'd be kicking these guys out the nearest airlock, it's my damn solar system after all.
Wormhole industry is already on hardcore mode with all the logistics and hassle that comes with anyone mass producing items, to the point where most people do it elsewhere. I guess that applies even more so now, far easier from a POS a few jumps from a trade hub. I would have thought it would be obvious to simply not apply it to wormhole space. But then, i guess that's too much hassle for CCP.
Not that I care about a small extra payment, i personally think these industry changes are pretty awesome. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
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Alundil
Isogen 5
604
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Posted - 2014.07.27 21:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:Imagine how broken it would be in the current system to not get taxed in a WH. just imagine the only way to make a decent profit was in WH space. EvE would die and the economy would tank. No - THAT ^ would be most excellent. It would provide a lot of "content" :)
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Amber Patoria
Rolled Out
767
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Posted - 2014.07.27 22:34:00 -
[102] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Just noticed your sig. LOL Everyone's doing it tough lately.
Never turn down good ISK just to flail around on a pole.
Get-á #shrekt-á
Meta-á - Excessive use of the word 'meta' is totally the new meta |
Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
168
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Posted - 2014.07.28 04:04:00 -
[103] - Quote
Kellie Dusette wrote:
Rod of Dusette Summoning
Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes? You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
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Trinity Griffin
Clann Fian
6
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Posted - 2014.07.28 04:48:00 -
[104] - Quote
When will parking meters be implemented for the workers? |
Ruse Lander
M. Corp Engineering Fatal Ascension
18
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Posted - 2014.07.28 05:25:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:For one thing, the primary goal behind the cost scaling has nothing to do with sinking ISK from the economy (ISK supply growth has remained well within a healthy range both before and after Crius). CCP Fozzie wrote:The upshot for Wormhole dwellers is that every installation in the game has at least some level of operating cost under the new system, and that the lower per-system population of Wormholes means that these costs will generally be much lower in Wormholes than in most other areas of space.
I can't speak to the mechanics behind the curtain but the following makes me wonder if player sovereignty and POS's (which as I am told didn't have these costs pre-crius) have any purpose anymore (at least in Null-Sec):
POST-CRIUS 2014.07.28 04:59:38Manufacturing-2,344 ISK1,492,505,953 ISKManufacturing job fee between Ruse Lander and Secure Commerce Commission (Job ID: 230880787)
PRE-CRIUS 2014.07.20 15:04:53Researching Time Efficiency-104,166 ISK1,571,669,562 ISKTime efficiency research job fee between Ruse Lander and Fatal Holdings (Job ID: 229784739)
This is a case where the players built and/or maintain the structures as well as the systems in which they are located. There is no NPC faction controlling the systems in which they are located and yet an NPC faction is now the source of fees that were paid to the sovereignty controlling player corp.
But like I said, I don't know if this is a 'typo' and the isk is still going to the proper entity or not.
~btw - 'isk supply growth' is called inflation --- inflation cheapens the efforts of those earning it. |
Kemptiss
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
2
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Posted - 2014.07.28 11:21:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Marox Calendale wrote: But why did you do this awkward way using the corp wallet instead of taking the money directly from the Person who is installing the Job?
The industry team in Game of Drones are actually adding the ability to pay for starbase jobs with your personal wallet at the moment. They'll have it implemented as soon as possible.
Is this code for "in a couple months, when we really find the time"? |
Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
15090
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 11:30:00 -
[107] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:Kellie Dusette wrote:
Rod of Dusette Summoning
Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes? Is black, very large and when gripped firmly can be felt pulsing softly with mysterious, dark energies.
Legend speaks of an ability to also glow in the dark under certain rare conditions, such as the nearby presence of Jack Miton.
Gÿá Part-time wormhole pirate | GÖí Full-time super model WH Blog | #420roloswag | Bio |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
524
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 13:23:00 -
[108] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Hatshepsut IV wrote:Kellie Dusette wrote:
Rod of Dusette Summoning
Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes? Is black, very large and when gripped firmly can be felt pulsing softly with mysterious, dark energies. Legend speaks of an ability to also glow in the dark under certain rare conditions, such as the nearby presence of Jack Miton.
Where do I acquire one of these? Or do I have one built in already? If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Alundil
Isogen 5
606
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 14:27:00 -
[109] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:Kellie Dusette wrote:
Rod of Dusette Summoning
Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes? And multiple speeds, no doubt.
I'm right behind you |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
524
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 14:34:00 -
[110] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Hatshepsut IV wrote:Kellie Dusette wrote:
Rod of Dusette Summoning
Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes? And multiple speeds, no doubt.
I only know how to go fast. I call it "Thukker Style" If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
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HerrBert
V0LTA Triumvirate.
471
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Posted - 2014.07.28 15:03:00 -
[111] - Quote
Now recognize yo Gallo, jus caus thuks take roadkill like yo doesnt mean thuks be rep for Da Tribe! Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
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Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
524
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Posted - 2014.07.28 15:05:00 -
[112] - Quote
HerrBert wrote:Now recognize yo Gallo, jus caus thuks take roadkill like yo doesnt mean thuks be rep for Da Tribe!
wat If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
HerrBert
V0LTA Triumvirate.
471
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Posted - 2014.07.28 15:08:00 -
[113] - Quote
Wat fixed it for you Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
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QT McWhiskers
Hard Knocks Inc.
415
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 04:29:00 -
[114] - Quote
No I fixed that for you bert. |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
203
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 07:09:00 -
[115] - Quote
The more I read about this stupid pay the workers think the more I want to unsub my accounts. 400,000k to put in some components. What ever happened to robotics? Thought EVE was based in the future. What about the choice of hiring slower lower paid workers instead.. some of the lore explanations in the name of balancing or scaling lately have been plain stupid. Can't wait to be paying for oil changes and window cleaning fees on my tengu. RIP EVE.
I put a tower up before Crius thinking it was going to be awesome. Now it needs to be taken down. AOE2 HD $20 on steam, got on it people! Better than paying $1000 per year for eve IMO.
Brb installing free to play games. |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
526
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:25:00 -
[116] - Quote
Senn Denroth wrote:The more I read about this stupid pay the workers think the more I want to unsub my accounts. 400,000k to put in some components. What ever happened to robotics? Thought EVE was based in the future. What about the choice of hiring slower lower paid workers instead.. some of the lore explanations in the name of balancing or scaling lately have been plain stupid. Can't wait to be paying for oil changes and window cleaning fees on my tengu. RIP EVE.
I put a tower up before Crius thinking it was going to be awesome. Now it needs to be taken down. AOE2 HD $20 on steam, got on it people! Better than paying $1000 per year for eve IMO.
Brb installing free to play games.
So just don't do indy or just wait until they unfuck WHs for indy like is it really that hard?
AOE2? pls. fuckin casuals, everyone knows it's all EU4 all day. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Larisma
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.07.30 09:35:00 -
[117] - Quote
Oooooh Dusette girls! Can I join your posse |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
531
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 13:11:00 -
[118] - Quote
Larisma wrote:Oooooh Dusette girls! Can I join your posse
You aren't pretty enough tbf // Maybe one day with a resculpt and hours spent playing Barbie. Dusette is just too beautiful, especially Candi If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
496
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Posted - 2014.07.30 15:19:00 -
[119] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hard caps on slots scale poorly as the game population grows over time, rely on values dictated by us instead of reacting to player behavior organically, and create the frustrating situation where sometimes the game tells you that you simply can't do the kind of industry you want right now. A soft cap would instead allow players to choose whatever cost level is acceptable to them, based on their other goals and motivations. Quite the contrary.
Speaking from a W-space perspective, where we live out of POSes and we have access to only what we bring in the system, hard caps on industry slots scales as much as you (the resident) wants it to scale. While I do agree that having to interact with each individual structure to access the slots it manages is cumbersome as the number of structures increase, there is no scaling problem. We also have to install individual modules to perform specific manufacturing tasks: one facility for drones, various ones for ships, one for modules and rigs, one for ammo, etc.
If we have 10 manufacturing slots in a structure, that allows us to run 10 jobs simultaneously. Previously, not all jobs would run for 24 hours, so you could queue jobs to take advantage of that. But let's just assume that one facility is sufficient for one industrial character and all slots were normalized to 10. If you need more slots, you add more facilities. If the slots in a POS were pooled together, whereby you access one structure to interact with all slots, it would be better and you could directly see how things scaled.
At some point, you reach a decision point: adding any more facilities means you will need to reduce your defensive capabilities. This is something it seems you guys were hoping for with the module stacking thing, even though that really only penalizes W-space. This is the point where hard decisions are made, whether to stop adding indy facilities, or whether to reduce defenses, or whether to add another tower to the system.
Only at really large numbers of people crammed into a really small system with very few moons do you become cramped. And then you can still move elsewhere.
In Hisec, you can still have the unlimited slots concept, just charging more for additional slots as they are used; costs would naturally be higher the closer to Jita you are. The cost scaling makes sense in Hisec. It just doesn't make sense in W-space (or Sov Null, but they have so many carrots right now I've given up arguing for them).
CCP Fozzie wrote:The upshot for Wormhole dwellers is that every installation in the game has at least some level of operating cost under the new system, and that the lower per-system population of Wormholes means that these costs will generally be much lower in Wormholes than in most other areas of space. There is another nerf to W-space built into the new system regarding teams. Neighboring systems in K-space benefit from the presence of these teams; so a Nullsec group could charge increase rental fees for prime real estate that has teams available from nearby systems and constellations AND taking advantage of the teams themselves ... double-dipping.
In W-space, you have to win the bid and have that team in your system or you get nothing. So not only does Lowsec and Nullsec get some of the lowest installation costs in the game, as does W-space, but they also get to benefit from neighbors hiring teams. That alone should justify the removal of cost scaling for W-space.
I would have been very satisfied with keeping industry slots when operating out of POS facilities, keeping the scaling according to number of facilities while modifying the UI to merge slots into one window. If you are rewriting and merging Station/Outpost code with POS code, making stations a special case of POSes, then stations could have a special exception to provide unlimited slots with cost scaling in effect. Then the tradeoff: unlimited capacity and complete safety vs cost savings while limited in capacity with potential risk of loss.
All of the features in this recent release are useful in certain circumstances. They are just not all useful in every situation in the game, like just about anything else. One size almost never fits all.
I'm arguing against the ISK sink in W-space because it doesn't make sense, no matter how you try to justify it (let's be intelligent adults for a moment, oki?) But if you refuse to re-assess the compounded disadvantages you are throwing at w-space, relying solely on the argument that we share some of the lowest ISK sink costs in game, then we will adjust. It may mean we do less industry, or we have tighter margins, or maybe fewer industry alt accounts, but we will adjust.
As stated, the cost will just get pushed to the consumer: the one who turns the ISK faucet and fills up his buckets with ISK.
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Larisma
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.07.30 17:03:00 -
[120] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:Larisma wrote:Oooooh Dusette girls! Can I join your posse You aren't pretty enough tbf // Maybe one day with a resculpt and hours spent playing Barbie. Dusette is just too beautiful, especially Candi
Dunno I'd say im pretty bangable |
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