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David Coverdale Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:21:00 - [1] - Quote With the dramatic drop of reproc efficiency, does the new patch make it actually impossible to continue the life of a solo high-sec self-efficient miner-refiner? It seems that without a POS and the most expensive of refining implants, selling raw ore is now more profitable than even high-skilled reprocessing. Prove me wrong, please!
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:29:00 - [2] - Quote David Coverdale wrote: With the dramatic drop of reproc efficiency, does the new patch make it actually impossible to continue the life of a solo high-sec self-efficient miner-refiner? It seems that without a POS and the most expensive of refining implants, selling raw ore is now more profitable than even high-skilled reprocessing. Prove me wrong, please! It will take more training and a better implant but you can get equivalent ore refining yield with Crius. The ore pricing you are talking about might be because some players are going to want compressed ore instead of refined ore now.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 3922	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:31:00 - [3] - Quote There isn't much difference in yield/ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4770202#post4770202 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4780736#post4780736 There is increased demand for compressed high-quality (10%) ores.
Pheusia Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 105	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:32:00 - [4] - Quote David Coverdale wrote: With the dramatic drop of reproc efficiency, does the new patch make it actually impossible to continue the life of a solo high-sec self-efficient miner-refiner? It seems that without a POS and the most expensive of refining implants, selling raw ore is now more profitable than even high-skilled reprocessing. Prove me wrong, please! You might note that the mineral content of all ores has been boosted to compensate. Is that all the proof you need or do you want more?
Camel1001 Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:33:00 - [5] - Quote The worst thing with all this Crius stuff is that now you can not get more then ~78% efficiency without playing with POSes and other things. And even with then you will never be 100%. In fact, it frustrates me deeply. Yes, i know about bigger amount of minerals etc. Doesn`t matter. Bad idea.
Pheusia Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 106	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:58:00 - [6] - Quote Camel1001 wrote: The worst thing with all this Crius stuff is that now you can not get more then ~78% efficiency without playing with POSes and other things. And even with them you will never be 100%. In fact, it frustrates me deeply. Yes, i know about bigger amount of minerals etc. Doesn`t matter. Bad idea. So you're ending up with the same amount of minerals from a given amount of time spent mining but that's not good enough for you? Sorry buddy, in that case I can't help you other than perhaps to suggest sitting in a corner and holding your breath until you get what you want.
Cournal JackoNeil The Ascended Academy 0	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:02:00 - [7] - Quote Refining in null with a outpost is awesom though. It's a win for null sec mining
Promiscuous Female GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 421	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:11:00 - [8] - Quote no, just sell your compressed ore and buy minerals from the market with the proceeds you will get more minerals this way because the ore is worth more to people who have access to nullsec refineries than you can refine it for sell compressed ore only
Katherine Raven ALTA Industries Intergalactic Conservation Movement 155	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:29:00 - [9] - Quote Camel1001 wrote: The worst thing with all this Crius stuff is that now you can not get more then ~78% efficiency without playing with POSes and other things. And even with them you will never be 100%. In fact, it frustrates me deeply. Yes, i know about bigger amount of minerals etc. Doesn`t matter. Bad idea. The numbers were adjusted the way they were to get rid of using modules for ore compression which never made any sense and was a stupid mechanic. Now Ore compression is king for exporting from HS to null. The yields on ore were increased, and the ore amount needed for a stack to refine reduced to 100. There might be miniscule differences in returns pre-crius and post-crius, but they are minimal. The fact that you see you are only getting %78 yield doesn't really mean much, the output is roughly the same. No one will get %100 yield on anything anywhere, which never made any sense anyways.
Brock Nelson 685	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:31:00 - [10] - Quote Promiscuous Female wrote: no, just sell your compressed ore and buy minerals from the market with the proceeds you will get more minerals this way because the ore is worth more to people who have access to nullsec refineries than you can refine it for sell compressed ore only Uhh...can...can I squeeze em? Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Qoi Exert Force 17	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:38:00 - [11] - Quote Just online a POS one a month (only costs 10 fuel blocks), online a compression array, compress everything, unanchor and offline again, sell in market hub. No fuel cost overhead, requires no industry skills. Let the manufacturers handle the reprocessing, it will improve their logistics if they only have to transport compressed ore and not minerals. Everyone wins! (Of course you need a moon for that. might want to team up with some people, since a compression array can compress virtually infinite ore.)
Camel1001 Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:46:00 - [12] - Quote Katherine Raven wrote: No one will get %100 yield on anything anywhere, which never made any sense anyways. May be, but I am a perfectionist in spirit, and it is painful for me ;)
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 3558	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:28:00 - [13] - Quote Qoi wrote: Just online a POS one a month (only costs 10 fuel blocks), online a compression array, compress everything, unanchor and offline again, sell in market hub. No fuel cost overhead, requires no industry skills. Let the manufacturers handle the reprocessing, it will improve their logistics if they only have to transport compressed ore and not minerals. Everyone wins! (Of course you need a moon for that. might want to team up with some people, since a compression array can compress virtually infinite ore.) It's also a handy storage space for ore, if you're, for example, mining in a system with no station. 20 million m3 iirc. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Careby 204	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:45:00 - [14] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: It's also a handy storage space for ore, if you're, for example, mining in a system with no station. 20 million m3 iirc. It's pretty hard to fill up. Just when I nearly had it filled, I clicked Compress and it was almost empty again. Sarcasm is OP
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2272	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:55:00 - [15] - Quote A propos such "ninja" compressing at POS, forgive my ignorance but is it enough to have small tower and compression array and dump all ore in it with orca or whatever, compress, unload back to ship, rince and repeat until all ore is compressed? Or would I need to have storage structure whatever its name is to act as a input - output for compression array? Asking for a friend, you know... :) Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 3558	Posted - 2014.07.23 14:36:00 - [16] - Quote Schmata Bastanold wrote: A propos such "ninja" compressing at POS, forgive my ignorance but is it enough to have small tower and compression array and dump all ore in it with orca or whatever, compress, unload back to ship, rince and repeat until all ore is compressed? Or would I need to have storage structure whatever its name is to act as a input - output for compression array? Asking for a friend, you know... :) It's, iirc, a massive storage facility for ore. you could keep dumping orca loads into it, and it'd laugh at you. You can then compress the stacks and take the loads out. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2272	Posted - 2014.07.23 14:49:00 - [17] - Quote Thanks Steve. I got back to devblog for closer look at pictures of compression array and it indeed has 20mil m3 ore/ice hold so tower + array is enough for compression purposes. For some reason I thought it acts only as a "service" and ore needs to be stored separately in another structure (never owned a POS before but now I kind of start thinking about it). Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 1110	Posted - 2014.07.23 16:12:00 - [18] - Quote Camel1001 wrote: Katherine Raven wrote: No one will get %100 yield on anything anywhere, which never made any sense anyways. May be, but I am a perfectionist in spirit, and it is painful for me ;) I'm more open with the fact that I suffer from OCD and that less than perfect really irks me ;) But I see the changes as a chance for recovery ... CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Jarnis McPieksu Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 510	Posted - 2014.07.23 16:17:00 - [19] - Quote David Coverdale wrote: With the dramatic drop of reproc efficiency, does the new patch make it actually impossible to continue the life of a solo high-sec self-efficient miner-refiner? It seems that without a POS and the most expensive of refining implants, selling raw ore is now more profitable than even high-skilled reprocessing. Prove me wrong, please! Capital builders will want to buy ore (or compressed ore, to be more exact). They will be the bulk buyers of materials. They will take care of refining in 0.0 where they get more minerals out of the ore. Stop refining, start compressing - a small POS and a bit of equipment, can even be turned offline between compressing cycles to save fuel, nobody can shoot at it anyway unless they wardec you first, giving you plenty of time to take the POS down.
David Coverdale Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.07.23 18:24:00 - [20] - Quote Jarnis McPieksu wrote: Capital builders will want to buy ore (or compressed ore, to be more exact). They will be the bulk buyers of materials. They will take care of refining in 0.0 where they get more minerals out of the ore. Stop refining, start compressing - a small POS and a bit of equipment, can even be turned offline between compressing cycles to save fuel, nobody can shoot at it anyway unless they wardec you first, giving you plenty of time to take the POS down. That seems like a decent advice. But is there any guide on building this small ore compressing-oriented POS without additional costs? Just for the goal of stockpiling ore, compressing it and its future sale on the market.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 177	Posted - 2014.07.23 19:13:00 - [21] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: There isn't much difference in yield: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4770202#post4770202 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4780736#post4780736 There is increased demand for compressed ore, especially high-quality (10%) ores. With the jump fuel increases, I expect compressed ices to come into high demand as well. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content.
Camel1001 Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.07.23 19:26:00 - [22] - Quote Jarnis McPieksu wrote: Stop refining, start compressing A piece of advice, really.
Steijn Quay Industries 563	Posted - 2014.07.23 19:56:00 - [23] - Quote David Coverdale wrote: Jarnis McPieksu wrote: Capital builders will want to buy ore (or compressed ore, to be more exact). They will be the bulk buyers of materials. They will take care of refining in 0.0 where they get more minerals out of the ore. Stop refining, start compressing - a small POS and a bit of equipment, can even be turned offline between compressing cycles to save fuel, nobody can shoot at it anyway unless they wardec you first, giving you plenty of time to take the POS down. This seems like a decent advice. But is there any guide on building this small ore compressing-oriented POS without additional costs? Just for the goal of stockpiling ore, compressing it and its future sale on the market. only costs are fuel for the amount of time that the POS is online. basically, empty moon, POS, compression array, freighter (ideally but could use an Itty V, just a PITA)
Jarnis McPieksu Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 511	Posted - 2014.07.23 20:17:00 - [24] - Quote David Coverdale wrote: Jarnis McPieksu wrote: Capital builders will want to buy ore (or compressed ore, to be more exact). They will be the bulk buyers of materials. They will take care of refining in 0.0 where they get more minerals out of the ore. Stop refining, start compressing - a small POS and a bit of equipment, can even be turned offline between compressing cycles to save fuel, nobody can shoot at it anyway unless they wardec you first, giving you plenty of time to take the POS down. This seems like a decent advice. But is there any guide on building this small ore compressing-oriented POS without additional costs? Just for the goal of stockpiling ore, compressing it and its future sale on the market. Small tower, any type, whichever has the cheapest fuel blocks. Compression array. Fuel blocks, charters (depend on which empire area you are anchoring). Nothing else is needed. You can toss up some defensive modules if you think you want to defend the tower, but the smart way is to just pull it down if a wardec appears and keep it offline when not compressing. If you fear that someone suicide ganks the compression array, unanchor it between uses and store it in a station. Ore is stockpiled in a station and freightered in, dropped into array, click, compressed, freightered to market.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 3954	Posted - 2014.07.23 20:18:00 - [25] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: There is increased demand for compressed ore, especially high-quality (10%) ores. With the jump fuel increases, I expect compressed ices to come into high demand as well. I have my doubts about ice demand, as nulsec has a lot of ice, and of higher quality too. However nulsec does lack low-end minerals in bulk, needed for capitals.
Katherine Raven ALTA Industries Intergalactic Conservation Movement 160	Posted - 2014.07.24 15:54:00 - [26] - Quote David Coverdale wrote: Jarnis McPieksu wrote: Capital builders will want to buy ore (or compressed ore, to be more exact). They will be the bulk buyers of materials. They will take care of refining in 0.0 where they get more minerals out of the ore. Stop refining, start compressing - a small POS and a bit of equipment, can even be turned offline between compressing cycles to save fuel, nobody can shoot at it anyway unless they wardec you first, giving you plenty of time to take the POS down. This seems like a decent advice. But is there any guide on building this small ore compressing-oriented POS without additional costs? Just for the goal of stockpiling ore, compressing it and its future sale on the market. I think you might need to clarify what you mean on "without additional costs." You'll have to buy the small tower, and the array, and at least a bit of fuel, but seeing as refining is instant now you can do all your refining with only burning 1 hour of fuel. I'm not sure what you mean about trying to avoid additional costs, what costs are you referring too?
David Coverdale Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.07.24 15:59:00 - [27] - Quote Katherine Raven wrote: I think you might need to clarify what you mean on "without additional costs." You'll have to buy the small tower, and the array, and at least a bit of fuel, but seeing as refining is instant now you can do all your refining with only burning 1 hour of fuel. I'm not sure what you mean about trying to avoid additional costs, what costs are you referring too? Just need the simplest and cheapest of high-sec starbases only to stack and compress ore: no refining needed.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 194	Posted - 2014.07.24 16:05:00 - [28] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: I have my doubts about ice demand, as nulsec has a lot of ice, and of higher quality too. However nulsec does lack low-end minerals in bulk, needed for capitals. Ice product supply isn't just driven driven by the availability of resources, it's driven by the amount of work done by miners to harvest said ice products too. Unless there's suddenly an upswing in ice mining, demand for ice products will be going up relative to the current supply of ice products. I agree re: low-end minerals. I expect the compressed ore market to take off in hisec as well. I think a smart miner will get into both. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content.
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2294	Posted - 2014.07.24 17:18:00 - [29] - Quote David Coverdale wrote: Katherine Raven wrote: I think you might need to clarify what you mean on "without additional costs." You'll have to buy the small tower, and the array, and at least a bit of fuel, but seeing as refining is instant now you can do all your refining with only burning 1 hour of fuel. I'm not sure what you mean about trying to avoid additional costs, what costs are you referring too? Just need the simplest and cheapest of high-sec starbases only to stack and compress ore: no refining needed. Today I set up sth like this: small tower + compression array, simple as fapping. It took me longer to figure out where to put those frakking charters than hauling stuff in and anchoring/onlining. At least that was a start but then hauled in corp hangar, maintenance bay and reprocessing array because why da frakk not! Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
Ramcath Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2014.07.24 20:13:00 - [30] - Quote The only thing that bothers me about all of this is the fact that I grinded so many missions for so many different npc corps just so I could refine in their stations at no cost. This resulted in me being able to make BILLIONS at a time because I lost no ore, and my only costs were buying/shipping, and I grinded so many missions that I had access to almost every station in one specific Region. With that being said, this is the nice thing about Eve. They're looking to improve all the time, the gameplay, and not punish players but what this update brings is me having to take an extra step out of my shell, getting a POS, compressing ore, and making a living that way. It brings me further into Eve, more experience, etc., and for this I truly can't be upset. I've never had a POS, have no idea how to truly go about it, but it seems as though it won't be that difficult. Long story short I appreciated this thread and reading what everyone had to say, it was good advice from everyone and great links as well. I'll hopefully be set up in a week or so with the POS and buying ore to compress, so if anyone needs large quantities of compressed ore just let me know in game and maybe I can work something out with you. Thanks everyone, great thread! Ram

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