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Duels, Hostages, Blasters and Kill Rights

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Azda Ja BUMP POW 43	Posted - 2014.07.28 12:05:00 - [1] - Quote So something interesting happened earlier today that has left me a little confused. I found most of my answers, but the evelopedia seems a little bare bones information wise, and I haven't had much luck google fu-ing what I want to know. This is what happened: When I log in, my fellow newbie corp-mate, says that he's being held hostage after fighting a duel. I was unsure of what he meant at first, but quickly realized he was scramed somewhere in Rens in his pod after getting his ship blown up. No big deal I think. Turns out the guy has had him scrammed for a long time, and just won't pod him, they're just sitting there. I wasn't there when the duel happened, but according to my corp mate, the other person had some problems with his english and assumed my corp mate insulted him. I don't know what happened, but I wanted to help my corp mate out of his less than pleasant situation. I looked up the ship he had lost to determine what the other guy was flying, just a rocket fit Condor. No problem for 8 blasters on a Catalyst. I quickly fit up the ship, walk my corp mate through the plan: we would fleet up, I warp on top of him and the Condor, scram, web and blast him, I'd get Concorded, but my corp mate would be free, and we'd get petty petty revenge . The less fun option was having my corp mate self destruct. The plan works perfectly, my corp mate is free, we got revenge, I get blasted by Concord and go dock up to wait out the timer. I am soon informed that I have a one million ISK bounty on my head and that the Condor pilot's kill right has been made available to "everyone for 0 ISK". This doesn't really worry me, the bounties in EVE seem to be more for giggles than anything, and having people shoot at me doesn't seem like a problem, especially since I fly on the cheap. So with that said, what I can't really understand is, how was the Condor pilot able to keep my corp mate scramed for so long? When I looked up duels I came up with this: "Rules of Engagement Participants have five minutes from acceptance of the duel to begin battle. As soon as a single volley is fired, the timer is reset and will remain paused as long as there is active combat. Each pause in the exchange of fire will restart the timer, and each shot fired with pause it once more. A duel ends when exchange of fire ceases for more than five minutes, allowing the timer to run out, concluding the limited engagement period. Ship destruction does not end the limited engagement, and players can therefore pod kill each other within the parameters of a duel." Now, my corp mate made it clear that he was this guy's hostage for much longer than 5 minutes. That's the main source of confusion for me here. According the the above, if no shots are fired for more than 5 minutes, the duel ends. Does having a scram on a pod somehow count as "exchange of fire"? If so, that's quite a broad definition. The only other thing I can think of at this point is that the Condor pilot would fire off a single rocket from time to time on the pod to keep the timer running, then again, pods are fragile, and I doubt that that could be kept up for long. I also have a question regarding the Kill Right mechanic. If I understand correctly, when someone activates the kill right, I receive a suspect flag for a period of time and can be shot sans Concord intervention. Also, once/if I am killed while the kill right suspect timer is running, the kill right holder can no longer engage me without consequences. However, if the kill right is available to everyone, does that mean everyone gets to kill me once? Or everyone has a chance to be the person to complete the kill right? If it's the latter, or a variation of it, it seems like Kill Rights are just a nuisance and not really anything to worry about. Then again even the first might not be a big deal, I sat on the Rens undock for 5 minutes earlier in a Merlin and had no trouble. I apologize in advance if I missed the answer in a very obvious place, like in front of my nose, but I couldn't quite find the answers I was looking for. Also thank you in advance to those who satisfy my curiosity . Newbie looking to grow and learn to PvP with other newbies? Join BUMP POW today!
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 3258	Posted - 2014.07.28 12:14:00 - [2] - Quote Ewar such as scrams, neuts ect,ect are hostile mods and count as "shots" with regards the engagement timer. "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything
Forest Archer Pandora Sphere Disavowed. 130	Posted - 2014.07.28 12:19:00 - [3] - Quote The first shot fired is any aggressive module in this case a warp scram/disrupt. As for kill rights anyone can activate them and fire on you but few people look for people what I would do is have a corp mate activate it and kill you in a noob ship and dock as the kill right is free and won't be cleared until you lose a ship or like 45 days. But you could lose a big ship because of it I killed an orca mining in HS because of a kill right then prodded him. Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if your in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post
Summer Isle Autumn Industrial Enterprises 44	Posted - 2014.07.28 12:20:00 - [4] - Quote EWAR refreshes the cycle. In a case like your corp-mate's, you can always self-destruct your pod. Better yet, set up an overview tab with only planets and customs offices (an Escape tab) and spam warp when you realize your ship isn't getting out. You can at least save a pod that way. Regarding the kill right, yes, someone can right-click you and activate it and legally shoot you. Since it's zero ISK, just undock in a Rookie ship and have a corp-mate activate it and destroy your ship.
Azda Ja BUMP POW 44	Posted - 2014.07.28 12:23:00 - [5] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Ewar such as scrams, neuts ect,ect are hostile mods and count as "shots" with regards the engagement timer. They should probably reword the rules in that case. Shots fired makes it seem like it's reserved to anything that deals damage to you. Maybe something like: "A duel ends when all hostile interaction has ceased for more than five minutes, allowing the timer to run out, concluding the limited engagement period." That would be clearer. Forest Archer wrote: Have a corp mate activate it and kill you in a noob ship and dock as the kill right is free and won't be cleared until you lose a ship or like 45 days. That's a great Idea, I'll be sure to do that. Newbie looking to grow and learn to PvP with other newbies? Join BUMP POW today!
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2324	Posted - 2014.07.28 12:48:00 - [6] - Quote Oh, those sweet moments when something gets lost in translation. Anybody remembers "mate"-gate? :) BTW: good thinking on your part OP to suicide yourself for freedom of your corpie. People like you make this horrible game exciting and great. Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
Patrick Yaa Starcade Group Elemental Tide 11	Posted - 2014.07.28 13:40:00 - [7] - Quote Nowhere in the Rules of engagement are shots listed as the requirement for an ongoing combat. "as long as there is active combat" - The rest of the ROE is badly phrased, but this is the key part. active combat is when offensive modules/drones are activated towards the opposing party. Apart from that, Summer Isle explained the Killright stuff pretty good :) //EDIT: really nice story btw :P :)
Elmonky Titans of The Short Bus Universal Consortium 90	Posted - 2014.07.28 13:41:00 - [8] - Quote I heard that Han shot first. Back on topic, what a great story - taking one for the team will leave your corp mate endebted to you ...right up to the point that you AWOX him and steal his corpse for reasons
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 1637	Posted - 2014.07.28 16:01:00 - [9] - Quote +1 for great story and an excellent young CEO EVE Online: Death-o-meter
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting 1403	Posted - 2014.07.28 16:17:00 - [10] - Quote Nice read and a creative application of Crimewatch 2.0.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4214	Posted - 2014.07.28 16:33:00 - [11] - Quote As with for instance suicide ganking attempts (Criminal actions) and logoff timers, Limited Engagement look for 'shots'. This means ANY offensive module and is thus not limited to guns or launchers. EWAR modules are also considered 'shots' on a target. So technically you can keep someone in a duel just by a scram (as you and the corpy found out) but a noobship with a point or ammoless guns can keep any ship from disappearing if someone logs off. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Azda Ja BUMP POW 53	Posted - 2014.07.28 19:24:00 - [12] - Quote Schmata Bastanold wrote: Oh, those sweet moments when something gets lost in translation. Anybody remembers "mate"-gate? :) What is this "mate"-gate of which you speak? I'm curious and no one but you has mentioned it so far. STORY TIME! Thanks for the encouragement though . So far this is the only "negative" thing I've experienced so far in the community, and it wasn't that negative to be honest, it gave me another fun story to tell and I get to feel like a badass, despite the ease of the act. Apparently the complaints regarding ganking being a tool of evil sociopaths I've been seeing from time to time, perhaps didn't take into account "justice ganking", and it's applications in hostage "negotiations". Newbie looking to grow and learn to PvP with other newbies? Join BUMP POW today!
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2333	Posted - 2014.07.28 19:55:00 - [13] - Quote Well, I don't remember exactly who said what and how big drama exactly was but approx 2 years ago some dude went all postal over word "mate" used by some other dude. I guess that was an example of language barrier and google derping with translation so basically what was intended was "mate" as guy, dude, etc. but was received as "mate" in sexual kind of way. Maybe J'Poll or somebody else from regulars can give more details but I remember there was few funny cases of idiots vomiting hate over forums because of it. Or maybe I got it completely wrong? I was pretty much still fresh back then so maybe I missed some subtle details of this whole clusterfrakk. I haz a linky :) Search for more "eve online mate 2012" if you like :) Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4219	Posted - 2014.07.28 20:15:00 - [14] - Quote Schmata Bastanold wrote: Well, I don't remember exactly who said what and how big drama exactly was but approx 2 years ago some dude went all postal over word "mate" used by some other dude. I guess that was an example of language barrier and google derping with translation so basically what was intended was "mate" as guy, dude, etc. but was received as "mate" in sexual kind of way. Maybe J'Poll or somebody else from regulars can give more details but I remember there was few funny cases of idiots vomiting hate over forums because of it. Or maybe I got it completely wrong? I was pretty much still fresh back then so maybe I missed some subtle details of this whole clusterfrakk. I haz a linky :) Search for more "eve online mate 2012" if you like :) I know who that was, was there at that time with an alt....it was glorious. Every day after that, anybody in RvB closed their chat with the word Mate Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 563	Posted - 2014.07.28 20:57:00 - [15] - Quote heh, back when I was a rookie some guy can flipped my alt, so I blew him up, then suicide ganked his pod. He still had a timer so I only got shot by station guns and not concord. Kinda went wtf just happened at that. far more fun to learn aggro mechanics first hand, that said they made them easier to understand and now I don't understand them You can trust me, I have a monocole
Nikolai Lachance Happy Wheels Logistics 133	Posted - 2014.07.28 21:33:00 - [16] - Quote Whenever someone makes a kill right on you available to everyone for free or cheap, they are basically throwing it away, because it becomes trivial to have an alt or friend activate it and blow you up in a noob ship. Let that be a lesson... if you have kill rights on someone, don't make it publicly available for free or cheap. Make it cost some decent isk, or limit its availability to people who aren't likely to help the victim clear it easily.
Azda Ja BUMP POW 55	Posted - 2014.07.29 00:02:00 - [17] - Quote UPDATE: Drunk FC Azda strikes again, after promising to get kill rights activated by a corp mate and losing a newb ship I instead lost a Merlin I was taking out for a corp roam. I ended up jumping to Kamela in my pod to pick up a Talwar I lost an hour later after we roamed forEVER looking for a good fight. Instead, we barreled into an Omen and a Stabber. We were bored. And as I type we are about to attempt to complete our first "mercenary contract". Play upbeat and motivating distorted rock guitar music here. Newbie looking to grow and learn to PvP with other newbies? Join BUMP POW today!
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 3283	Posted - 2014.07.29 01:38:00 - [18] - Quote Azda Ja wrote: UPDATE: Drunk FC Azda strikes again, after promising to get kill rights activated by a corp mate and losing a newb ship I instead lost a Merlin I was taking out for a corp roam. I ended up jumping to Kamela in my pod to pick up a Talwar I lost an hour later after we roamed forEVER looking for a good fight. Instead, we barreled into an Omen and a Stabber. We were bored. And as I type we are about to attempt to complete our first "mercenary contract". Play upbeat and motivating distorted rock guitar music here. drunken roam best roam o7 "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything
L'ouris Have Naught Subsidiaries 185	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:05:00 - [19] - Quote All questions answered it seems, but wanted to thank you for sharing these stories. Every one keeps the bitter at bay :)
Elmonky Titans of The Short Bus Universal Consortium 93	Posted - 2014.07.29 06:48:00 - [20] - Quote I want this thread to continue. OP has an engaging way of telling a short story worth my time. +1 to all
Azda Ja BUMP POW 67	Posted - 2014.07.29 08:30:00 - [21] - Quote Schmata Bastanold wrote: Well, I don't remember exactly who said what and how big drama exactly was but approx 2 years ago some dude went all postal over word "mate" used by some other dude. I guess that was an example of language barrier and google derping with translation so basically what was intended was "mate" as guy, dude, etc. but was received as "mate" in sexual kind of way. Maybe J'Poll or somebody else from regulars can give more details but I remember there was few funny cases of idiots vomiting hate over forums because of it. Or maybe I got it completely wrong? I was pretty much still fresh back then so maybe I missed some subtle details of this whole clusterfrakk. I haz a linky :) Search for more "eve online mate 2012" if you like :) I finally went though and read about the "mate" war. Wow. Just...wow. I tip my hat to those RvB guys, that must have been a fantastic "war" to be a part of. Speaking of which... Update deux: As a result of our "mercenary contract" being completed (a hulk gank), the target corporation declared war on our friend, and business partner. We've joined in on the war effort and will get a taste of EVE war mechanics now. Despite now pulling off a few successful ganks, I do prefer lowsec frigate fighting so far. But, I'm hoping the war that resulted from the gank will provide some fun/interesting shenanigans. More news after this commercial break. Newbie looking to grow and learn to PvP with other newbies? Join BUMP POW today!
Areen Sassel 16	Posted - 2014.07.29 14:36:00 - [22] - Quote Nikolai Lachance wrote: Let that be a lesson... if you have kill rights on someone, don't make it publicly available for free or cheap. Make it cost some decent isk, or limit its availability to people who aren't likely to help the victim clear it easily. Also, a high-value one is a nuisance to get rid of. Stooge around in a shuttle, people just think it's a scam (they think the killright belongs to your mate who will split the proceeds). Pitch it right and the victim can spend the best part of a month never wanting to undock anything high-value because of the killright... pitch it just right, and get that plus a spot of delicious revenge and cash near the end of the month.
Azda Ja BUMP POW 68	Posted - 2014.07.30 08:03:00 - [23] - Quote I've been researching how Wars work in high sec. I came upon this guide on an EVE blog. According to the writer, Wars started for "revenge" as is the case here, can usually last a pretty long time, and involve many many participants as the war goes on. I was wondering if anyone here could shed some light on their experiences with similar situations, and or point me to any non obvious resources I should take a look at. Someone in game, was kind enough to give me a couple of guides to read last night, and I'd like to add to my reading list. Thanks again! Oh and: UPDATE 3: First blood has been spilled. A corp mate and our wardecced friend killed the CEO's Procurer and podded him. Unfortunately I had to log off a half an hour before the War officially started since I was falling asleep at my keyboard, so I missed the action . This may end up being pretty fun though. Newbie looking to grow and learn to PvP with other newbies? Join BUMP POW today!
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2386	Posted - 2014.07.30 08:15:00 - [24] - Quote C'mon, you got that one who mines under wardec? You lucky bastard :) Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
Velicitia Arma Artificer 2442	Posted - 2014.07.30 09:45:00 - [25] - Quote Schmata Bastanold wrote: C'mon, you got that one who mines under wardec? You lucky bastard :) That said miner declared himself, no less!!! One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 3326	Posted - 2014.07.30 11:06:00 - [26] - Quote Last week was orca week for us. I was genuinely surprised at the amount of mining that goes on under war Dec, hell go look at my kill board, the last two kills on it were war tagets afk mining that my Corp mate literaly stumbled across. "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything

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