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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
349
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Posted - 2014.07.30 19:03:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Val Karan wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:Didnt run it for l9ng time but I remem er blaping that scarlet pirate every time she show up what is difference in when she dies she will be in next pocket again and again? You get an implant drop if you kill her one pocket early. She will not appear in the next pocket, and the mission is considered complete. You can kill her in the second room if you're fast enough, for an implant and 5M bounty. She reappears in the third room for another 5M bounty and no implant in this case that she's killed in room 2. She does not reappear in the final room, correct.
I popped her in 3rd room and got implant.
Maybe you are thinking 3rd room instead of 4th? |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
349
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Posted - 2014.07.30 19:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Ireland VonVicious wrote:Well the bouncers I wouldn't use anyway.
Typical resist profile is 41 exp 61 therm. Ie any range you can get bouncers to track is game/set/match to bouncers over gardes. Quote:
As far as the beserkers I replaced with my Gecko.
According to your numbers it would be 402.38 landible dps due to resist. Gecko only seeing 358.6. (( I have not confirmed that your numbers are correct. ))
That would show the Beserkers as better if they were in a pure resist only bubble but they are not.
Either way they are only used for things that get under the Gardes.
Most things that get under the Gardes are small.
The Gecko has slightly better tracking. Has slower orbit speed which helps land the hits. Has further opt range. Which helps tracking and allows it to shoot sooner. It is also slightly faster cutting down on flight time. I enjoy busting it out v.s. other groups too if a frig gets under the Gardes. Which is where it Well out performs the Beserker in every way.
So yes it takes a hit on the resist factor v.s. angels compared to beserkers but more than makes up for it in other areas.
It also has a much better survivability factor. Plus it has that cute bunny on it. Hard to pass that up.
I use to run Beserkers but in practice while in game the Gecko has proven to me to be the better choice. Back to EFT for you!
You are talking about effects in the order of a couple of percent which are mostly provided to compensate for the low rate of gecko hit sampling and the resulting adverse affect on applied dps given small buffers of frigates. (Ie all gecko misses from a rattlesnake cause target survival where as heavy drones misses often don't, and particularly don't from a domi). And no eft will not give you insight into discrete effects. Another discrete effect is npc cruiser buffer size.
I don't switch my drones for each mission. Waste of time. So I stick with the Gecko as my heavy. Garde, Curators for sentries and hornets for lights.
Plus this is the dread scarlet. Not about to drop one of my other sentries for bouncers just to get slightly better for one of the 4 rooms. It can be worth it to swap for some mission but I don't even bother. I'll give up the 1 min just not to have the hassle. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
425
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Posted - 2014.07.30 19:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
I do not include travel times as I usually chain missions. Also, I don't worry too much about declining missions as I have over 8.0 standings with most of the corps I mission for, and I can easily earn back the standing loss. You can kill Scarlett in the 2nd room, but it may not flag the mission complete. However, when you go into the third room she will be there for you to kill again. So you can get 2 bounties for her + the implant.
BTW, Smash the Supplier is easy mode. Kill the shipyards and you don't have to worry about the respwans. The tags you can farm from that mission are very noice. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
156
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Posted - 2014.07.30 19:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Val Karan wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:Didnt run it for l9ng time but I remem er blaping that scarlet pirate every time she show up what is difference in when she dies she will be in next pocket again and again? You get an implant drop if you kill her one pocket early. She will not appear in the next pocket, and the mission is considered complete. You can kill her in the second room if you're fast enough, for an implant and 5M bounty. She reappears in the third room for another 5M bounty and no implant in this case that she's killed in room 2. She does not reappear in the final room, correct. I popped her in 3rd room and got implant. Maybe you are thinking 3rd room instead of 4th? If you fail to kill her in room 2 you do get another chance at the implant in room 3. What I said in the quote, and what happened with you, are only mutually exclusive within the same run. |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
took me 80 minutes in a raven last night
-it was my first time I have ever run it -i got guristas every pocket. i hate jamming -i ran out of scourge cruise missiles - i wasnt optimally tanked for guristas so took more damage than ideal - i dont have t2 weapons -loot is pretty poor, bounty is decent
im sure next time i will do better
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
54
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Posted - 2014.07.31 13:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:That's cute, the video is sped up. Edit: judging by the jam timer i could guess its sped 100% rather than 50% Confirming 100% effective speed up, using hardener timers. 2.5 seconds per hardener timer. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1053
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Posted - 2014.08.02 04:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tam Arai wrote: -i got guristas every pocket. i hate jamming
FoF missiles for the win. |
stoicfaux
5229
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Posted - 2014.08.02 05:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
/me dusts off some spreadsheets...
Vargur kill all (rubicon 1.1): 29m:40s (in mission) + 4:32 (travel: 1 jump away, 71.26 AU) = 34:12. ~110M* per "hour" in loot, salvage, etc., at 2,000 isk/LP 26:15 + 4:30 (1 jump, 86.32 AU) = 30:45 ~115M* * Minus a smidgen due to reprocessing nerf.
Mach Blitzing (pre-Rubicon warp speed): 2:04 + 4:16 (1 jump, did not record AU) = 6:20. ~241M* per "hour" (740M isk if you only count mission time.)
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
353
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Posted - 2014.08.02 06:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think the point of the per hour is you got to be able to make it for a whole hour.
But the Mach time was nice.
Vargue seems a good chunk slower than the RS on full clear. The loot seems very high. Must have been back when loot was worth a lot more. |
stoicfaux
5229
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Posted - 2014.08.02 17:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:I think the point of the per hour is you got to be able to make it for a whole hour.
But the Mach time was nice.
Vargue seems a good chunk slower than the RS on full clear. The loot seems very high. Must have been back when loot was worth a lot more. You're missing the point. One would expect a 1500 to 1733 DPS Rattlesnake with long optimals to significantly outperform a always-in-falloff 1100 DPS Vargur.
The 26 minutes for a Rattlesnake versus the Vargur's ~28 minutes means that the Rattlesnake has a serious problem with applied DPS.
When you add in the Vargur's ability to travel at 2.9 AU/s due to being able to use a warp speed rig (which the RS must use for missile/drone rigs) and a warp speed implant in the #6 slot (a slot the RS has to use for a missile damage implant,) combined with the Vargur being able to loot/salvage on the go (tractors, MTU, salvage drones) while the RS has to spend ten minutes futzing around in a Noctis, then the Rattlesnake's "huge" DPS advantage becomes "meh" in the context of mission running.
It's not that the Rattlesnake is bad. It's not that the Rattlesnake's DPS allows it to run some missions noticeably faster than a Marauder. The problem is that a 1500-1700 DPS Rattlesnake should perform like a 1500-1700 DPS ship. Which it doesn't.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
353
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Posted - 2014.08.02 18:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
I think you miss the point that their is nothing that can out perform it on full clear.
Diminishing returns is expected when in the last few percent of perfecting.
Also I said it could have been done a little faster in same fit I got a bit sloppy on the run.
I think it's performing as intended.
For full clear the noctis is needed just to have the cargo size and enough MTU's to drop and run.
I carry 5 MTU's on my RS and try to grab 2 missions at a time before redock to save warp time. No space is cargo for the amount of loot I grab up per run. Mauraders are cherry pickers. I want it all!
I'll take the Maurader v.s. MTU / Noctis challege any day on that. I don't see the Mauraders doing it any faster. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
63
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Posted - 2014.08.02 23:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:i find it cute how he describes the scarlet mission as the toughest. Ok it needs omni tank and omni damage, but the toughest standard mission is still serp and guri blockade l4 and from the epic arcs it is showtime (hope i remember it correct). blocadese/gu is more annoying than tough wiht a mjd/sniper fit. guristas bs will still hit you at 130km but damage is not so hard to tank even with just a couple of resists as long as you stay out of bc/cruiser/frigate range, serp are blaster fitted so not a problem. even switching to an ab via yurth the far gates remains annoying. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
63
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Posted - 2014.08.02 23:31:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:I think you miss the point that their is nothing that can out perform it on full clear.
if you know how to manage your mjd a kronos/paladin can be as good or better, depending on mission, probably you're still thinking about old marauders pre bastion/mjd with tractor bonuses. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1055
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
You use a Rattlesnake to blitz.
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
353
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Posted - 2014.08.03 03:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:Ireland VonVicious wrote:I think you miss the point that their is nothing that can out perform it on full clear.
if you know how to manage your mjd a kronos/paladin can be as good or better, depending on mission, probably you're still thinking about old marauders pre bastion/mjd with tractor bonuses.
I'm not and would rather use RS MJD fit over a current Marauder.
I don't see a Marauder pulling this off at this speed as just discussed with the Vargur. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
353
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Posted - 2014.08.03 03:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:You use a Rattlesnake to blitz.
Not I. I burn through missions too fast and have long sessions when I run them. The declines by running too fast will hurt more than spending time to complete. It's only isk per hour if you can keep it up for a full hour and I'm after 2-3 hour sessions. When playing in such a manner blitz turns to fail rather quickly. |
stoicfaux
5230
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote: Loot total was 33,540,000
No awsome drops happend during this run that would have spiked the loot numbers.
33.5M in loot is a huge amount. By comparison, my Vargur numbers show 10.1M and 6.4M in loop (as per the in-game estimator.) Which means you probably got a really good implant drop and/or a lot of meta 4 items. The loop fairy either favored you heavily or disfavored me heavily. (Or the Vargur really needs to hang around and loot everything.)
Quote: Reward total was 3,700,000 Grand total was 66,290,876
Time taken to complete mission 25 mins. Total time loot/salvage in Noctis was 10 mins. Putting in 5 mins of flight time and using that lag to go toward flight time too as needed you get roughly 40 mins.
Mission pays out over 4000 LP if you have social skills trained and you can convert that as you see fit.
I was a bit laggy on the playing and believe 1-2 mins could be shaved off the mission time in the same ship.
Long story short, it took the Rattlesnake (23m to 25m) + 5 min travel time + 10 min Noctis run = 38 to 40 minutes to do a full clear. My two Vargur runs in-mission times averaged 28 minutes. We add in 5m of travel time giving us 33m, which is 5 to 7 minutes faster than the RS+Noctis. I'm pretty sure that the Vargur could have cleared the field of loot and salvage in 5-7 minutes. Add in the Vargur's faster warp speed of 2.9 AU/s (2.2 base, warp speed rig, 10% warp speed implant,) and we could add another minute or two for the Vargur to loot.
Ergo, your Rattlesnake + Noctis combo wasn't faster than a Vargur.
Now as for the Rattlesnake's impressive DPS: If we look at just the time spent in mission, your run was 23 to 25 minutes. The average in-mission time of my two Vargur runs was 28M. So that means your 1,733 1,694* DPS Rattlesnake has 51% more raw DPS than my 1,123 DPS Vargur. However, you're only clearing the mission * 12% faster using your 25 minute number * 16% faster using 24 minutes * 21% faster using 23 minutes
Again, the Rattlesnake's impressive EFT DPS numbers don't translate well into actual applied DPS.
* Your 1,733 DPS number didn't include reload times. Your correct DPS number is 1,694.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
353
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Posted - 2014.08.03 17:16:00 -
[48] - Quote
Well that is it's max number. It's using sentries most of the time so yes when using Gardes the DPS does drop a bit. Also you reload between each room. Only exception is last room but I hit reload as I ran up an extra 30k on the first bonus spawn.
I don't think your Vagur could clear it in the time stated had it full looted/salvaged. I'd bet on not even close. It really doesn't even have the option due to lack of cargo space. It's like a partial blitz that you ran hard to compare it to a kill and loot/salvage every last thing run.
Had one 8 mil implant but nothing else was loot fairy.
I think it's just that I went through all those BS bonus spawns at the end. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
163
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Posted - 2014.08.03 17:33:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I don't think your Vagur could clear it in the time stated had it full looted/salvaged. I'd bet on not even close. It really doesn't even have the option due to lack of cargo space. It's like a partial blitz that you ran hard to compare it to a kill and loot/salvage every last thing run.
All marauders have gigantic cargo holds so uh....
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
353
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Posted - 2014.08.03 17:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
For a BS they sure do. But it's only still about half what is needed when that mission is spewing and you full loot it. Expect a warp out and back in. |
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Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax3
71
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Posted - 2014.08.03 18:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
The Maurauders have quality of life issues going for them, tank, e-war immunity , salvage/loot while makeing more wrecks, good damage application, generous fitting parameters. They are the mission ships that have it all.
The Rattlesnake has a lot of EFT dps which it has issues applying, very tight fitting which causes trade offs in the mid slots for tank or damage aplication. Now the Rattlesnake is a good mission ship but the Maurauders are the apex lvl4 mission runner . |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
353
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
They don't have better tanks. RS is pretty EWAR resistant. Fof's and agressive drones. Over time I don't think they make or loot more wrecks.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70554-MWD-L4-Rattlesnake-1733-DPS-with-implants.html
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70136-Rattlesnake-Kronos-Optimal-L4-Missioner.html#msg1022660
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70551-MTU-Noctis.html
Those might help explain.
Mach and Mars are the only ships in the same sport.
Mach for blitz. Mars for cherry picking. RS / Noctis for full clears.
If one of you draws the dread scarlet give it a go. See how long it takes to clear all bonus waves and loot/salvage entire mission. |
stoicfaux
5231
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote: Had one 8 mil implant but nothing else was loot fairy.
That 20 mil light in the loot/salvage you came up with for that 7 mins time it would hopefully take is rather telling.
It's most likely the loot fairy. My spreadsheet has three AE runs, two of the runs (which included bonus room) resulted in 6.7M and 9.2M in loot. The 3rd run (sans bonus room) was 31.0M in loot.
tl;dr - More data points are needed.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1152
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Ireland VonVicious wrote: Had one 8 mil implant but nothing else was loot fairy.
That 20 mil light in the loot/salvage you came up with for that 7 mins time it would hopefully take is rather telling.
It's most likely the loot fairy. My spreadsheet has three AE runs, two of the runs (which included bonus room) resulted in 6.7M and 9.2M in loot. The 3rd run (sans bonus room) was 31.0M in loot. tl;dr - More data points are needed. Weren't they discussing Dread Pirate Scarlet, not AE. Or was that just a typo?
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
353
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
I've done the Dread Scarlet enough times to know it's not out of whack. Atleast a dozen times ran in a full kill/loot manner.
It would seem if it was a loot fairy as you called it you need to make better friends with it. |
stoicfaux
5233
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Posted - 2014.08.03 23:23:00 -
[56] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Ireland VonVicious wrote: Had one 8 mil implant but nothing else was loot fairy.
That 20 mil light in the loot/salvage you came up with for that 7 mins time it would hopefully take is rather telling.
It's most likely the loot fairy. My spreadsheet has three AE runs, two of the runs (which included bonus room) resulted in 6.7M and 9.2M in loot. The 3rd run (sans bonus room) was 31.0M in loot. tl;dr - More data points are needed. Weren't they discussing Dread Pirate Scarlet, not AE. Or was that just a typo? My bad for not being clear. The implication was that if I can see a similar huge variation in AE's loot, then the huge variation we're seeing between my two Dread Pirate runs (<10M) and the OP's 33M Dread Pirate run is most likely the loot fairy in action.
OTOH, the OP claims that Dread always drops big loot, so YMMV.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
164
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Posted - 2014.08.03 23:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Considering the number of battleships I dont find it surprising that there'd be so much loot. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1160
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 05:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Why waste 25 minutes making ~70mil isk when you can blitz in less than 2 minutes and make 8mil?
You can't blitz it in 2 minutes. Not even close. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7470
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Posted - 2014.08.04 14:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Why waste 25 minutes making ~70mil isk when you can blitz in less than 2 minutes and make 8mil? You can't blitz it in 2 minutes. Not even close.
Talking Dread Pirate Scarlet right? 2 minutes (not including travel time) is easy.
Warp to mission. MWD to gate, activate gate. Land shoot scarlett (to get her to leave) MWD to next gate, activate gate, land, pop scarlett, loot implant, leave.
2 to 2 and a half minutes tops. It's why I always keep a gate key in my Machariel. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7470
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Posted - 2014.08.04 14:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
Val Karan wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Why waste 25 minutes making ~70mil isk when you can blitz in less than 2 minutes and make 8mil? lol 2 minutes. you forgot to include traveltime, this is a mission that is 90% 2-4 jumps away.
From my agent it's always 2 jumps away. My mach has warp speed rigs and an MWD. Including travel time it's no more that 4-4.5 minutes. Popping 1 cruiser and looting a can isn't hard lol.
I understand fully where Estella is coming from. When i get Dread Pirate Scarlet I'm happy as hell, I know that I'm going to get an 8 mil implant and 9400 Sisters of EVE LP for a few minutes work. It's like Recon only faster and pays better. I always blitz that mission so i can move on to the next.
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