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Typhoon Impressions, Post Change

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ParMizaN	Posted - 2006.07.10 13:20:00 - [31] I know it's petty, but PLEASE spell it "turret" lest i rip my hair our, set myself on fire and jump out the nearest window. sig edited for lack of pink really PINK -eris
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.10 13:26:00 - [32] Originally by: ParMizaN I know it's petty, but PLEASE spell it "turret" lest i rip my hair our, set myself on fire and jump out the nearest window. Turrent. Don't forget to video it. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.10 13:26:00 - [33] It still needs some more grid...just try fitting siege launchers and large projectiles on it, with a good tank. Its hard... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Omega Bloodstone	Posted - 2006.07.10 13:27:00 - [34] Originally by: ParMizaN I know it's petty, but PLEASE spell it "turret" lest i rip my hair our, set myself on fire and jump out the nearest window. Sorry...would not want you to lose hair man...Careful there. I edited it to thow as turret :)
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.07.10 14:43:00 - [35] You can't give it more power because then it could fit a proper tank. With a proper tank it would become an insane Caldari killing machine. I'm just bitter because for my whole 2 years in the game to fly Typhoon required gunnery and drones. Now it takes missiles and gunnery. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Lumel	Posted - 2006.07.10 15:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 10/07/2006 15:10:07 I'm just bitter because for my whole 2 years in the game to fly Typhoon required gunnery and drones. Now it takes missiles and gunnery. Ah, perhaps this is part of your problem then. It's not gunnery and drones or gunnery and missiles. It's gunnery, drones, and missiles. Typhoon = triforce. --- Knowledge won't help us understand
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.10 16:20:00 - [37] And what exactly changed? It went from a rubbish sniper to an excellent close-range ship. If you used artillery on it then tough, but if you were using autos + nos + drones on it before, nothing is stopping you from doing it now. The only difference is if you want to use launchers you actually get a bonus along with them too. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.10 16:27:00 - [38] Originally by: Sarmaul And what exactly changed? It went from a rubbish sniper to an excellent close-range ship. If you used artillery on it then tough, but if you were using autos + nos + drones on it before, nothing is stopping you from doing it now. The only difference is if you want to use launchers you actually get a bonus along with them too. Wouldnt a dominix be more effective for nos + drones? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.10 16:40:00 - [39] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Sarmaul And what exactly changed? It went from a rubbish sniper to an excellent close-range ship. If you used artillery on it then tough, but if you were using autos + nos + drones on it before, nothing is stopping you from doing it now. The only difference is if you want to use launchers you actually get a bonus along with them too. Wouldnt a dominix be more effective for nos + drones? The point was to Imhotep Khem who's upset about having to train missiles. And FYI, the Phoon can do what the domi does with some creative fitting :) TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2006.07.10 16:45:00 - [40] I agreed to test my Blasterthron setup against a corp-mates new close range Typhoon. We are both fully specialised in our respective Battleship operations, both around the 36M SP mark in total.... ....The thing is a monster. I came close to beating it once, and I believe with my 'tinkered' Blasterthron setup I could have beat it, however this was with my opponent only using Ogre I's, I was using Ogre II's with the maximum possible damage attainable from a Gallente Battleship. Ogre II's on both sides and it tips towards the Typhoon. This is the same Typhoon was eating specialised Tempests setups alive. All been said however, this is ok, while this Typhoon eats Battleships nicely it is vulnerable to smaller ships, and more strangely was unable to take down a tech II specialised Raven, where I destroyed it with armour remaining. I don't think it needs any more help, you have a very potent close range ship now. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.10 16:49:00 - [41] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/07/2006 16:51:10 Originally by: Sarmaul The point was to Imhotep Khem who's upset about having to train missiles. And FYI, the Phoon can do what the domi does with some creative fitting :) Please spread the info. I can see people putting nos on it and EW in the med slots, if thats what you mean. But im not sure if its possible to make it as good or better than the dominix. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:02:00 - [42] Originally by: Gabriel Karade I don't think it needs any more help, you have a very potent close range ship now. What setup did he have? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:06:00 - [43] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/07/2006 16:51:10 Originally by: Sarmaul The point was to Imhotep Khem who's upset about having to train missiles. And FYI, the Phoon can do what the domi does with some creative fitting :) Please spread the info. I can see people putting nos on it and EW in the med slots, if thats what you mean. But im not sure if its possible to make it as good or better than the dominix. 4 nos, 4 siege, heavy drones, 2 multis. Out damages the domi by about 80 dps, but the domi gets 2 more nos and 1 more multi. On the other hand, the phoon can raise it's damage by fitting BCUs. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:10:00 - [44] Originally by: Sarmaul 4 nos, 4 siege, heavy drones, 2 multis. Out damages the domi by about 80 dps, but the domi gets 2 more nos and 1 more multi. On the other hand, the phoon can raise it's damage by fitting BCUs. Yep, figured you meant something like that. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:12:00 - [45] I'm not going to divulge his setup (especially not to Caldari scum ), other than it utilises the ships bonuses fully. Needless to say I'm certain Sarmaul knows the setup, as does any Matari who follows the "love thy duct-tape" commandment. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Gabriel Karade I'm not going to divulge his setup (especially not to Caldari scum ), other than it utilises the ships bonuses fully. Needless to say I'm certain Sarmaul knows the setup, as does any Matari who follows the "love thy duct-tape" commandment. I may be Caldari, but i fly minnie ships in combat. But i do use Raven for missions though, like almost everybody else... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:24:00 - [47] Originally by: Sarmaul And what exactly changed? It went from a rubbish sniper to an excellent close-range ship. If you used artillery on it then tough, but if you were using autos + nos + drones on it before, nothing is stopping you from doing it now. The only difference is if you want to use launchers you actually get a bonus along with them too. I wanted the ship fixed for ME not fixed for someone else. I don't have high missile skills, but I do have high drone skills directly because I wanted to fly the Typhoon. Why should I now train missiles just to fly a T1 ship that is still inferior to the Tier 2 ship I already fly. For me, nothing has changed. But since something has actually changed, nothing is likely to change again. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:26:00 - [48] Ahh gotcha, I thought you were complaining that the changes prevented you from using it how you were before. Personally, I love the new phoon and have torps 5 training for it :) TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
Omega Bloodstone	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Sarmaul Ahh gotcha, I thought you were complaining that the changes prevented you from using it how you were before. Personally, I love the new phoon and have torps 5 training for it :) Kinda off topic but I really do not want to start a new thread that has already been discussed. Sarmaul, you get on alot of the Minmatar discussions...what do you think the Tier 3 Min. will present to us...or is that totally unpredictable at this time? And also, what would you prefer as a layout?
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:38:00 - [50] Na, the change is benign to me. Its the fact that it will take another 2 years for another change that bothers me. Its a good ship now. I just don't consider it a good Minmatar ship. I am also training Torpedos V, primarily for the Naglfar. If you really think about it, Typhoon gets a cop-out due to the Naglfar. I could complain about the Naglfar as well for the same skill reason. Its like im having my wallet vacuumed. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:41:00 - [51] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/07/2006 17:42:29 The devs havent said anything about the tier 3 minnie bs... which is a shame. But im pretty certain we can expect errors in the description and armor/shield mixed up, or slots in the wrong place combined with mystery bonuses. I still love minmatar though. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Omega Bloodstone	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:43:00 - [52] Originally by: Jim McGregor The devs havent said anything about the tier 3 minnie bs... which is a shame. But im pretty certain we can expect errors in the description and armor/shield mixed up, or slots in the wrong place combined with mystery bonuses. I still live minmatar though. Laughing my a** off lolololol!!! Yea...I hope they lean toward turrets and mabye a shield tanker so dmg mods and tracking mods can run the lows
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.07.10 17:54:00 - [53] The Tier 3 will be bonkers. Its a natural result of being last. They'll fix it later. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.11 06:30:00 - [54] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/07/2006 16:51:10 Originally by: Sarmaul The point was to Imhotep Khem who's upset about having to train missiles. And FYI, the Phoon can do what the domi does with some creative fitting :) Please spread the info. I can see people putting nos on it and EW in the med slots, if thats what you mean. But im not sure if its possible to make it as good or better than the dominix. 4 nos, 4 siege, heavy drones, 2 multis. Out damages the domi by about 80 dps, but the domi gets 2 more nos and 1 more multi. On the other hand, the phoon can raise it's damage by fitting BCUs. it doesn't seem a good thing to be... basically you have a ship with half dps/half nos setup that barely outdps a ship with full nos setup not to say that the domi will fit also a better tank and have more ECM... doesn't seem very balanced to me... ahhhh and btw... the typhoon fitting you proposed is not possible... not enought grid...
Tyler Lowe	Posted - 2006.07.11 07:02:00 - [55] Edited by: Tyler Lowe on 11/07/2006 07:03:20 Originally by: Ath Amon it doesn't seem a good thing to be... basically you have a ship with half dps/half nos setup that barely outdps a ship with full nos setup not to say that the domi will fit also a better tank and have more ECM... doesn't seem very balanced to me... ahhhh and btw... the typhoon fitting you proposed is not possible... not enought grid... Try it again with a couple of PDS II's, or an RCU II. You will actually have enough grid to fit what is listed up top and a LAR + MAR setup in the PDS setup, but no BCU, or with the RCU, you can fit the dual rep (but not two large) + BCU II and still have a comfortable margin on your grid. Enough so that you can opt for a 1600mm plate instead of the bcu if you so desire. J.A.F.O.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.11 07:16:00 - [56] yup if i fit modules to expand the powergrid i can, but i will gimp my tank even more as said above the phoon is the only thip that can't fit a full rack of low "entry level" mid/long range weapons... it should show how is gimped its PG
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.11 07:48:00 - [57] Yes, 1k extra grid is needed i think... I hope Tuxford tries to fit this ship and see what we mean. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Loreth	Posted - 2006.07.11 09:00:00 - [58] Edited by: Loreth on 11/07/2006 09:03:37 Edited by: Loreth on 11/07/2006 09:02:24 Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes, 1k extra grid is needed i think... I hope Tuxford tries to fit this ship and see what we mean. Considering i fit a RCU II/TS/DB on my Domi for my 4 NOS/ 2x LAR repper(one cosmos) setup and that leaves me with ONE weapon system to use, i dont see why a ship needing one for the same reasonable tank has to be boosted. Typhoon has split weapon types and thats a drawback you say. I would just like to point the 8 highslots, even if not being boosted both with dmg modes they are still 8 L size WPN systems pwning. Add a rack of heavy drones and i bet it can rival a BS with 7 high slots and dmg bonus. I managed to fit the following in Quickfit, not pretending for good PvP fit just say DPS/Tank combination that i dont mind trying. 4x ZW siege, 4x Dual 650 mm "Scout" AC T1 named MWD, Heavy cap booster, Scram, Slot for ur imagination - i would try painter. L AR + M AR, RCU II(or TS/DB), Therm/Kin/Exp Hardners, Cap relay(that can be switched for dmg mod) Or as Sarmaul(that is obviously a lot more educated than me, when talking about Minnie ships) suggested the 3-4 NOS/4 Siege launchers setup is quiet good. Tbh i would switch my 50% dmg&HP bonus on drones for 4 Sieges with ROF Its a Tier 1 BS with the coresponding price and tbh i dont see any of them that doesnt have drawbacks or is not limited from its specific role/range/fitting ability(Domi, Phoon, Scorp with its PG, geddon with CPU) I believe the devs have gone thorough each change they recently did so asking for review is just ... oh well not necessary.
F4ze	Posted - 2006.07.11 09:09:00 - [59] I tried it and I think it's still not enough. Perhaps I should work on my skills, or work on my fitting, but I'm sure the ship itself needs more work as well.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.11 09:31:00 - [60] Originally by: Loreth Typhoon has split weapon types and thats a drawback you say. I would just like to point the 8 highslots, even if not being boosted both with dmg modes they are still 8 L size WPN systems pwning. Add a rack of heavy drones and i bet it can rival a BS with 7 high slots and dmg bonus. Its a Tier 1 BS with the coresponding price and tbh i dont see any of them that doesnt have drawbacks or is not limited from its specific role/range/fitting ability(Domi, Phoon, Scorp with its PG, geddon with CPU) here a post i made to compare damage for close range setups (as the phoon can be only a close range ship) before to post it scorp is an EW ship so is natural that the damage is not that great... but domi and geddon do very nice DPS, in some circumstances even superior to their "related" T2 ships... we should nerf domi and geddon to get in on par with the phoon and do low dps compared to T2 ships? and about the price... phoon actually cost more than a domi... so it should otdamage it :p Quote: here some numbers using SG damage sheet no NOS setup (for almost any ship), just trying to go full damage and do a comparsion. all turrets/launchers and drones are T2, ammo and missiles T1 Phoon: 4x425mm + 4xsiege + heavy drones Tempest: 6x650mm + 2xsiege + medium drones Gedoom: 7xmegapulse + heavy drones Mega: 7xion + heavy drones Domi: 6xelectron + heavy drones no dmg mods Domi: 794 Mega: 741 Geddom: 737 Phoon: 706 Tempest: 593 notes: even with the new 5% bonuse the phoon have inferior damage compared to other close range setups, he have a nice dmg curve due to missiles but same for the geddom tempest have low damage mostly due to the medium drones but whitout drones it outdamage the phoon. 1 dmg mod: (missile for phoon) Domi: 877 Mega: 844 Geddom: 840 Phoon: 759 Tempest: 676 notes: domi begins don't gain much but the difference between the phoon and mega and geddom are higher is over 10% (it was 5% before) 2 dmg mod: (missile/turret for phoon) Domi: 963 Mega: 952 Geddom: 948 Phoon: 800 Tempest: 761 note: don't think that all these ships can fit 2 dmg mods (phoon probably can't) but just for comparsion... the difference between phoon and other ships is over 15%, tempest is "just" at 5% 3 dmg mods (for shield tanked ships) Tempest: 824 Tempest (only 6 turrets): 734 Raven (only 6 siege): 725 i think that these numbers (hoping they are right :P) show that the phoon change don't really make it a "real" close range dps ship it have a nice dmg curve but nothing exeptional compared to a geddon or a raven in particular i think is also interesting to note that a shield tanked tempest with just 6 turrets and 3 dmg mods is very close to a phoon with 1 dmg mod. also i think is quite interesting to see how the damage get worse for the phoon at every dmg mod added to the ship... basically it start at 4th position (out of 5) and it keep that rank losing a 5% damage at every mod added. and just for fun Phoon with 6 dmg mods (ok quite impossible to fit and a suicide to fly :P) Suicidephoon: 971

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