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El greko
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Posted - 2006.07.09 19:22:00 -
[1]
I see in the sticky learning thread a format for going through learning skills, and learning 5 is on the list...
While using evemon however, I noticed that by learning it, it only cuts a level 5 skill training time by two hours, yet takes like 5-6 days to learn...
Why is that worth it? All the other level 5 skills on that list are learned because there's something beyond it that requires it...
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Gharmin Ra
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Posted - 2006.07.09 19:37:00 -
[2]
Put up 150 days of skill training in evemon, then add learning 5 and you'll see if its worth it...
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.09 19:50:00 -
[3]
Learning 5 increases your attribute multiplier from 1.08 to 1.10. 1.10 / 1.08 -> 1.0185. In short: you learn stuff 1.85% faster than before with learning 4.
100 / 1.85 = 54. This means you have to spend 54 times the time you needed for learning 5 to get an actual time bonus from the skill (meaning you saved as much time from the bonus the skill gives you than you needed to invest in training the skill in the first place). If you needed 5 days for learning 5 that are 54 * 5 -> 270 days, if you needed 4 days that are 216 days after you get even.
In other words, in 7-9 months you have earned the time investment for learning 5 back. In 14-18 months learning 5 has given you effeciently 4-5 "extra" days of skill training. In 21-27 months it has given you 8-10 extra days. And so on. In short: if you plan to play for longer than 9 months it is definately worth it. Not much, but it still gives you a boost.
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Andreask14
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Posted - 2006.07.09 21:54:00 -
[4]
No. ________________________________________________
Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are. |
Maar T'Kmel
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Posted - 2006.07.09 23:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Andreask14 No.
Explanation why?
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MrBreaker
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Posted - 2006.07.10 01:08:00 -
[6]
Give the guy an explanation why at least...
Learning gives you 2% bonus to you attributes per level.
so at lvl 5 you get a 10% bonus
How that works is this... if i have 21 int and learning lvl 4, training it to lvl 5 means i get a full bonus point to my int, pushing it to 22
Or if I have 18 int and buy a +3 implant I will actually get +4 with learning lvl 5
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.07.10 01:41:00 -
[7]
el matho:
learning 5 takes 210745 sp's (you will learn 2% faster now)
you need train 10537250sp's + 210745 sp's to gain back the invested sp
lets assume on average you make 1,5 mill sp per month ( this is realistic with adv learning 4)
after 7,16~ month you will benefit from learning 5
lets say you suck bad and your stats are horrid and all the kids laugh at you for only making 1 mill sp / month
you will benefit then from learning 5 after 10,27 month
so is it worth it? if you plan on playing longer than 7-10 month, then hell yes
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.10 10:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: MrBreaker ..How that works is this... if i have 21 int and learning lvl 4, training it to lvl 5 means i get a full bonus point to my int, pushing it to 22..
Learning does not give you only full point boni. It's just that your char screen does not show decimals.
20 base int + learning 4 = 20 * 1.08 = 21.8 int 20 base int + learning 5 = 20 * 1.1 = 22 int
Learning always reduces skill training by 1.85-2%, no matter if your attributes visibly increased or not.
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Marine HK4861
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Posted - 2006.07.10 11:42:00 -
[9]
Bear in mind since Learning adds 2% to all attributes and all skills have a primary and a secondary attribute, you actually learn 3% faster overall.
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Ayame Mishima
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Posted - 2006.07.10 12:48:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ayame Mishima on 10/07/2006 12:48:41
Originally by: Marine HK4861 Bear in mind since Learning adds 2% to all attributes and all skills have a primary and a secondary attribute, you actually learn 3% faster overall.
You're calculation is faulty.
(x + y) * z = xz + yz
Or in our case:
(Primary + Secondary/2) * Learning = Primary * Learning + Secondary/2 * Learning.
2% more on both will remain 2% more in total. =================================
Damn cheaters. |
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.10 12:54:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Aramendel on 10/07/2006 12:54:33
Originally by: Marine HK4861 Bear in mind since Learning adds 2% to all attributes and all skills have a primary and a secondary attribute, you actually learn 3% faster overall.
Wrong.
Your primary attribute is only responsible for 2/3s of your learning speed, so if only that would be boosted by 2% your effective sp/time boost would not be 2%, but 1.33%. Boosting the secondary attribute by 2% gives you an effective 0.67% learning speed increase. The effect from the primary and secondary atribute together are 2%.
For the first lvl of learning that is, as said. Each further lvl gives you exactly the same boost, but since you already got an higher speed it's always slightly less of a total percentage boost. For example - if you have 1 isk adding 1 isk to it gives you a 100% boost (2:1 = 2.00). If you have 50 isk adding 1 isk is only a 2% boost (51:50 = 1.02). Similar for learning: learning lvl 0 to lvl 1 is a 2% boost (1.02:1 = 1.02), learning lvl 1 to lvl 2 is 1.96% (1.04:1.02 = 1.0196), ..., learning lvl 4 to lvl 5 is 1.85% (1.10:1.08 = 1.0185).
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Daqinson
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Posted - 2006.07.10 16:34:00 -
[12]
I definetly think it is worth it, and the advanced as well, if you want to be a stronger pod pilot ---- ---- ---- ----
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Ravenal
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Posted - 2006.07.10 17:00:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ravenal on 10/07/2006 17:00:49 a very big yes.
reason: it rawks
another reason: this skill pays itself back in training time very fast (calcs provied elsewhere - like in the skill guide by Tripoli)
Also train all learning skills (except maybe charisma) up to advanced learning skill level 4.
If you are planning on staying for long... perc and int to lvl5 (most common primary attributes for combat chars (spaceship commmand, gunnery, missiles, engineering, mechanic and electronics)) . |
Shi Yanshu
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Posted - 2006.07.10 17:17:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Shi Yanshu on 10/07/2006 17:17:00 oops
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Phyra
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Posted - 2006.07.10 17:18:00 -
[15]
The question was if it is worth going from lvl4 to lvl5 not from 0 to 5 so......
Aramendel got it right. The 2% increase is a 2% increase over basic skills w/o any "learning" modifier.
Getting the effective increase over your actual level going from lvl a to b for any skill works like Aramendel did it:
new modifier/old modifier
Examples 1.)learning 4->5 1.1/1.08 =1.0185 = 1.85% 2.)drone interfacing 3->4: 1.8/1.6 = 1.125 = 12.5% (meaning only 12.5% increase over the level 3 damage output) 3.)learning lvl 0->1: 1.02/1.00 = 1.02 = 2% increase ;)...there you go.
The rest of Aramendel's math is correct too.
Phyra
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Iyanah
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Posted - 2006.07.10 19:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: El greko I see in the sticky learning thread a format for going through learning skills, and learning 5 is on the list...
While using evemon however, I noticed that by learning it, it only cuts a level 5 skill training time by two hours, yet takes like 5-6 days to learn...
Why is that worth it? All the other level 5 skills on that list are learned because there's something beyond it that requires it...
two hours off every skill?
you DO realise that although you will not see the benefit right away, you will eventually as you will henceforth save two hours on EVERY skill you train, thus lowering the time it takes to do any given thing.
you don't have to do it right away if you have a pressing need to learn something else, but i reccomend it as you will reduce the rest of your training significantly.
think of it this way, you have a skill that requires you to learn say 5 prerequisits, that's 10 hours you've saved which can train another skill in. ========================================== Passive target lock is my friend. i swear by it. others swear at it. |
nobodyz
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Posted - 2006.07.10 19:07:00 -
[17]
Edited by: nobodyz on 10/07/2006 19:09:20 I have my primary character with all base learning to 5 and advanced to 4. Sure, it does take a while for that to pay off. But really, when Frig 5 dropped by DAYS, that was all I needed to see. And yeah, training my primary to a dread, it's shaving days off the overal training time. Sure, it did take time to learn, but think of it as a long term investment. If you are going to be playing the game for a long time, you might as well do it. My friend started playing a few weeks before me, never trained learning skills. I spent the time (almost 2 months I think) getting all my advanced learning to level 4. I have now surpassed his SP by about 3 million already. Things just train faster. And top off Adv. learning to 4 with a set of +3's, it really helps :)
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