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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.15 01:56:00 -
[31]
So I guess every single tank in the world has magic faeries living inside it because a thousand people shooting it with small slingshots isn't going to damage it?
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.15 02:00:00 -
[32]
Bad argument.
Again, you're comparing radically different energy levels, several orders of magntuide different. Even the smallest military gun in Eve is no more than two orders of magnitude different in power from the largest, and the specific energy relative to the sizes of the ships makes a mockery of any claims that a ships armour would be invulrable to ligher weapons.
If you're arguing for a comprehensive review of armour to basically change it from todays ablative armour system to one based on different principles with all weapons interacting depending on how heavy they are the armour thickness, then go for it. In detail, please.
But not one specific, R/P/S-forcing magic faerie change.
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.15 02:05:00 -
[33]
In EVE Online, the defensive systems have evolved must more/much faster then the attack systems.. IRL stuff gets blown up from 1 missile, in eve it takes many, etc etc. So if anything, EVE ships should have even MORE resistance to tiny weapons then normal ships do, since their defensive capabilities are even stronger compared to weapons then in the normal world.
I'm not asking for magic faeries. But the strongest armor in the universe should be impervious to civilian/T1 small guns. That's all I'm asking. Nothing magical. No faeries. No pixie dust. No elves.
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.15 02:09:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/07/2006 02:10:43
We can tell from the way armour is destroyed that defence systems have not appreciably improved. Armour is ablative. It is plain destroyed under fire. Possibly smartmatter armour since it's destroyed all over evenly, but is remains quite easy to destroy with even the energy (i.e. let's just say that a Star Destroyer would waltz through a BoB fleet, Motherships and all, without blinking...) of Eve weapons.
That IS a VERY VERY SPECIFIC MAGIC FAERIE.
There are medium autocannon which do a LOT less damage per hit than small artillary, per shot. You are proposing nerfing one, but not the other, in a very specific situation.
Magic. Faerie. Dust.
Moreover, as I've said before it breaks Eve. You might want to re-read that and comment on it.
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.15 02:14:00 -
[35]
It breaks eve that the strongest armor in the game can shrug off attacks from the weakest weapon in the game? It requires magic for a multi billion dollar behemoth to be able to withstand attacks from civilian peashooters? O_o
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.15 02:16:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/07/2006 02:16:50
No, it breaks Eve that you are trying to introduce a R/P/S cycle where there are things a ship ay do, and others which it may not, for absolutely no logic reason but instead the needs of an arbitrary "gameplay" may not. This is where the stale DikuMUD gameplay which Eve has spent so much time and effort in breaking away from lies. Where levels go.
Again, ANSWER THE POINTS. You can hit with a 280mm small arty for 400+ damage. A 220mm medium autocannon hits for less than 25 for many people. You want to make the small arty somehow NOT be able to damage a ship, when the medium autocannon can.
This is broken. This is highly, magic-faerie broken. Period.
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.15 02:20:00 -
[37]
I'm not talking about 220mm artillery or whatever I'm talking about the damn civilian pea shooters that come included for free on ibises on stuff.
Please stop talking saying magic fairy dust it makes me think of WoW and all it's awfulness. :(
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.15 02:26:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/07/2006 02:25:41
That's deliberate. (evoking WoW)
And as for civilian weapons, they are simply not sigificant in Eve balance. Adding special case code for them will - inevitably - lead to its use elsewhere. It's code which would be "doing nothing", and it's better not to do that sort of code in the first place.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.15 03:43:00 -
[39]
If you think that just massing the same kind of units and just rolling over an enemy being the best strategy in lots of games makes those games good you have absoloutly no clue about good game design.
Allowing that sort of thing discourages people from developing intricate strategies and just throwing mass units in the ring, and exactly that syndrome is right now dumbing down Eve by making fleet battles nothing more then battleship sluggoffs, where they could be complex fights with dozens of different ship types acting in concert.
Besides, all your ramblings about magic fairies are just completly off, the way ship defenses work right now in eve are the magic fairies. Like the magic resistance fairies that will knock a percentage of the damage of an incoming hit, no matter what hits you, because obviously a doomsday devide will instantly have its damage cut in half if the ship is half way resistant to its damage type.
Or the ultra-speedy repair fairies, that acctually allow you to repair a ship faster then it is getting damaged, and that is your only way to stop a ship one thousands your size to kill you over time.
Well whatever, I'm not even going to answer your posts anymore, you are just the ultimate force of "Everything is awsome like it is because I'm used to it and I have found plenty of ways to exploit its broken state"
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sr blackout
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.15 07:34:00 -
[40]
 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
Originally by: Noriath
There is no need for such a thing as a bomber in Eve, because you can also just shoot down a capital ship with light guns if you have enough of them.
Eve has a little problem with fightings capital ships because it completly ignores the fact that there comes a point where smaller weapons aren't effective, no matter how many of them you have. Shooting a real life battleship with 3 million revolvers will never destroy it. In Eve it would though.
Because of that there is no need for bombers, just bring more of the same old same old and it will kill anything.
Planetside suffered this exact same problem, any weapon could damage anything for the most part. sadly this cant be changed this far into the game's life and is only something that can be in from release or else i breaks many things(imagine the uproar from AF pilots if their guns became usless against Battlecruisers and bigger).
its quite simple to fix this.... and i thought about it ;)
using the ships sig is a way to tell how big or strong the ship is... simple math would use the sig rad of the ship... to see how much % dmg reduced.... but all guns should have a cap of doing 10-25% dmg
this would truly make eve better IMO... think about it... no more will you have a cookie cutter or overpowered ships with implants and setups that pwn all or what not... because you will have to bring the right ships for the right job and your right, it shouldnt be how it is now...
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.15 07:36:00 -
[41]
Please... stop arguing about how ship sizes in this game revolve around RL definitions. This is a space sim and a I qualified my proposal when I said corvettes in EVE should be like corvettes in Wing Commander, another science fiction game.
I want tactical incursion ships. Battleships are not that at all. They aren't very mobile and are back hunters. They are gate to gate, bookmark to bookmark commandos. They have their place as the smallest of ships do as well.
My proposal could do less with the high slots for weapons and get large remote repairer bonuses instead. The fact is that we need mobile infantry that use jump drives and don't take 1 bil in skill to sit just fit in and another 2 bil to fly properly.
A Corvette could use a short range jump drive for more tactical placement. Please don't try to put up the BoB argument to me. Game mechanics shouldn't revolve around some alliance that could be gone tomorrow. They aren't the gods of EVE and if they can field 500 of these ships more power to them, but so can you if with the right recruitment attitude.
Team Minmatar |
Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.15 08:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: sr blackout
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
Originally by: Noriath
There is no need for such a thing as a bomber in Eve, because you can also just shoot down a capital ship with light guns if you have enough of them.
Eve has a little problem with fightings capital ships because it completly ignores the fact that there comes a point where smaller weapons aren't effective, no matter how many of them you have. Shooting a real life battleship with 3 million revolvers will never destroy it. In Eve it would though.
Because of that there is no need for bombers, just bring more of the same old same old and it will kill anything.
Planetside suffered this exact same problem, any weapon could damage anything for the most part. sadly this cant be changed this far into the game's life and is only something that can be in from release or else i breaks many things(imagine the uproar from AF pilots if their guns became usless against Battlecruisers and bigger).
its quite simple to fix this.... and i thought about it ;)
using the ships sig is a way to tell how big or strong the ship is... simple math would use the sig rad of the ship... to see how much % dmg reduced.... but all guns should have a cap of doing 10-25% dmg
this would truly make eve better IMO... think about it... no more will you have a cookie cutter or overpowered ships with implants and setups that pwn all or what not... because you will have to bring the right ships for the right job and your right, it shouldnt be how it is now...
QTF. Best post in the whole thread!
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.15 14:07:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Noriath on 15/07/2006 14:07:01
Sig rad is a terrible measure of how much damage a ship can take, because it's by no means a measure of the size of the ship. It can for example be modified by MWD or shield extenders, and the minmatar titan even gets a static sig decrease as a gang bonus...
Also the idea is really more about the fact that capital ships die way too fast because just shooting them with a lot of ships kills them instantly then aboutmaking all bigger ships more resistant to smaller weapons.
Also: The Corvette idea is not needed. Carriers are already very affordable and fill the role you describe quite well. The skills are a bit on the expensive side, yes, but that's a good thing because that way not everyone learns carrier just for the hell of it. You have to make a comitment to acctually using the ship afterwards...
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Alassra Eventide
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.15 15:04:00 -
[44]
Y'know, we already kinda have something similar to a Corvette in this game...
It's called an Assault Frigate.
Maybe boosting them to be more effective than destroyers might help.
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Tadamitsu
Solar Storm
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.15 19:11:00 -
[45]
refocus:
I think this is a good idea.
to change the game into a more jumpdrive driven combat.
to give a fleet the ability to jump in dreads carriers and a battleship level combat ship I would love to lessen the dependance on gates.
co-CEO Solar Storm
Want to join the storm?
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.15 20:05:00 -
[46]
It wouldn't change anything about the dependence on gates, you still need to bring any support through the gates and you'd still have to put up cynofields most of all. A fully jump-capable fleet is already possible if you have a titan that opens a wormhole.
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Sky Hunter
Rage and Terror
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Posted - 2006.07.15 20:56:00 -
[47]
On original poster idea, i think BC lvl 5 skill req needs to be changed to BS lvl 5 and Adv Weapon Upgrades lvl 5.
5 fighters = too much power to give for rank 6 lvl 5.
-=-
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