The EULA itself does not describe the rules by which CCP operates. They are rules that can be applied to you as CCP, a private company, sees fit. This isn't a country with a parliament and citizens, so stop acting like it's a civil rights issue.

Nope you are the one taking it a face value.

No it's not. Botting is against the rules, and multiboxing is not botting.

Nope, that is called understanding it is not a black and white situation and making a case by case decision based on the evidence.

I decided to have this discussion earlier with Tippia, because I enjoy digging into semantics for no good reason whatsoever (and I suspect Tippia does too!). Anyway, this is her take on it, and maybe it should be stickied.

While I sympathize and happen to think that tools like isboxer should be banned, CCP does not feel the same way and draw a clear distinction between multiboxing and botting. Your friend was botting, which is a no-no. Get isboxer, get fleet of miners, mine all you like and only visit your computer every 15min or so to do stuff. Its sickening, but its the rules. Thankfully there is also the New Order of Hisec, and their own set of rules to bring balance to hisec mining.

might be getting into legalees .. but that doesnt say no multiboxing.

"patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items,... ... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play"
and
"You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data" is not occuring when multiboxing.

Multiboxing is like running multiple accounts, which is legal. It just makes it easier to press, for example all the undock buttons at once. Now one could argue that speeds up ordinary game play .. but i do not think that was the intention of the part of text you copied, but rather a section on not fiddling with game code, or macros to dupe the game mechanics. Not even if that section is describing boting ... really seems more about hacking, duping or breaking existing code. The keys being "accelerated rate" and "not actually acquired or achieved in the Game".

Since isboxer on its own isn't using macros or stored rapid keystrokes, CCP has said it is a-ok. Isboxer does send your input to multiple windows at a time, but since it is you doing it, they don't have a problem with it. Since it is their rules governing your behavior, they are free to make exceptions whenever they like.

For the sake of full disclosure, I think allowing isboxer is terrible and ruins the integrity of the game and CCP, but that does not change the fact that the interpretation of the Eula by CCP (the only one that matters) allows for it, and thus isboxer multi-boxing clowns are operating legally all over the place.

Consistency is not the top priority in a for-profit company otherwise it would be labeled "for-consistency".

CCP has made it quite clear that not only is multi-boxing fine, users can even use key-sharing apps that fork commands into multiple windows of the game.

Consistency and logic are not considered important on this topic.

You have failed so hard it has clouded your vision. Go read the thread, not just your own posts.

I linked you (yes, you) the CCP statement on ISBoxer last time you went off on this exact same point.

Yes, we know it's you.

Dont waste your time.

OP was clearly too stupid to understand it the first time and as CCP hasnt found a way to patch stupidity, OP is still as stupid and will still claim it is illegal.


Let stupid be stupid and just hope they dont reproduce, maybe nature can patch stupidity.

Only if you don't read it and just go on with already disproven assumptions. If you probably also help if you didn't read the bolded part in isolation, but actually continued on to the subsequent sentences since they remove preeeeetty much all ambiguity about what's allowed and what isn't.

No.

GǪor maybe people should start reading them properly rather than take a single subclause out of context since they're pretty darn clear as it is. The amount of misquoting and selective interpretation needed to construe the rules as being against multiboxing GÇö especially with the numerous and explicit CCP rulings on the matter GÇö just demonstrates how much effort has to go into not understanding them.

Well, obviously multiboxing is only allowed when done excatly the way described, using MULTIPLE computer with MULTIPLE screens. Multiple computers with a single screen are a bannable offence. This is very clear from the context, while phrases like

"Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed."

are very vague and easily misinterpreted.

Here is the magic thing...

it allows YOU with YOUR mouse cursor to do things. Step away from your mouse/keyboard and see if synergy does anything for you :)

No. But you have removed any and all doubt that you are in any way anything that could even be remotely and massively generously be described as literate.

GǪisn't the topic. The topic is muliboxing. What do they say about multiboxing?
GÇ£Lastly, multiboxing is allowedGÇ¥

Irrelevant. At no point do they say that you must use multiple computers. Again, the topic is multiboxing. And what do they say about multiboxing? Oh right.
GÇ£Lastly, multiboxing is allowedGÇ¥

There. You lost. You are wrong. You are incapable of reading even the most simple statement. Live with it. If possible, overcome it, but your incompetence will no doubt make that entirely impossible so you should probably seek some kind of disability support.

So....

If I open Excel 2 times and work on two spreadsheet, Microsoft will go nuts?

I get the software part. ISBoxing may be a grey area? (havent really kept up with that discussion to be honest)

But running more than 1 client is not breaking the EULA. That agreement is applied to every instance of the software seperately.

As a matter of fact; you can break the EULA with 1 client/account by using a botprogram for example, but not break it with another (manual play).

You mean the part that proves you wrong? The part where it clearly and unambiguously says GÇ£Lastly, multiboxing is allowedGÇ¥?

Yeah. You completely ignored that one. So let's make it clear:

Multiboxing is allowed.

This has always been their policy and it remains their policy. You will never find them saying anything else unless you massively mangle what they say by wilfully misquoting and misinterpreting those official statements.

GǪwhich is allowed sinceGǪ


GǪwait for itGǪ

GÇ£Lastly, multiboxing is allowedGÇ¥.

It always makes me happy when people get exactly what I'm saying.

Synergy was a specific example. <- sorry bro but it was an example of a Multi boxing program. They just used that one since it was the most popular

A general ruling not specifying the need for multiple computers was also given.

General ruling > specific example.

IS boxer is third party software used to manipulate the game. No getting around it other than CCP allows it. Fact is they benefit from the subs so they choose to allow it.

Eve is the property of CCP. Vote with your feet and or wallet if you donGÇÖt agree with their hypocrisy.

Dude, use some common sense.
1. The post we are discussing was said to be OUTDATED.
2. Why would CCP care how many computers you use? It does not affect their game in any way. You are paying them to be able to play. They don't care how much you pay for your electricity or how often you go to your local computer store to buy a new machine.

You are obviously just trying to find a point that you can make, since the original point of your thread was already disproven.

On the other hand, if your friend was banned for using botting software, that's a whole different thing. Just compare it to what I said above:
1. The rule that botting is forbidden is NOT OUTDATED.
2. Botting affects the game very much by injecting ISK and items into the economy that otherwise wouldn't be there.




In the end your call that "every rule breaker should be banned" is nonsense. This is because
1. Multiboxing on 1 computer is no break of a rule, once more, this post is said to be OUTDATED.
2. Botting with let's say 5 accounts is as bad as for example breaking rule 18 (by copy-pasting a petition for example) and therefore you should be permabanned in both cases right? I believe that's also why theft and murder are punished the same way in rl, because in both cases you are "breaking the rules", OH WAIT ...

Also rule 26: We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.

Deal with it.

@ Tippia: Sadly, you cannot fix stupid.

@ the OP: While it does suck that ... ahem your uh "friend" got banned - actually, you know what? It doesn't. Botting is not and never has been allowed by CCP. Good on them for banning "your friend". Personally, I hope it was a perma ban for multiple infractions.

That said, CCP has repeatedly, clearly, and decisively said that Multi-boxing is allowed. ISBoxer is allowed to be used to manage those multi-boxing sessions, so long as they do not automate game play (which is what bots do, for the record).

Please, give in to your outrage over this and unsubscribe - the game will be better off, and no one here will miss you.

Reported for discussing moderation, bans, and for being a dumb ass repetitive thread on a topic that has been discussed to ******* death.

Since the OP has edited the OP to add in even more blatant lies, I suppose it's best to address those head on.
Wrong. You know that it's not allowed to misrepresent CCP officials right?
That is not what GM Lelouch said at all, and you know it.

Why not? Because it would prove you wrong and shatter your fantasy world?

The fact remains: multiboxing is allowed. The number of computers used is not a factor. You are lying about what a GM has said in an official capacity, and this can end as badly for you as it did for your friend. You going up in flames over something that idiotic just because your buddy was rightfully banned for botting is not a good way to go.

Accept the fact that you are wrong and let it rest.

OP go back to the bottom of the first page, read the above paragraph. It clearly says there that you do not need multiple computers to play multiple accounts but that you would need multiple installs (but they can be on the same computer). and for all you know all multiboxers are using multiple installs.

now shut up, thanks.

10 seconds on the internet and over 2 years old:

http://joethemultiboxer.com/2012/04/politics-and-multiboxing-in-eve-online/

No. I accuse you of lying when you say that GM comments contain restrictions that are not there.

The whole idea that you are not allowed to use a single computer is something you made up. By claiming that a GM said it, and then providing a quote where nothing of the kind is said, means you are misrepresenting a CCP official, and that is a very very very very bad thing to do.

Jump, if you're feeling froggy. Go on, click that "Report" button. CLICK IT!!!

At least have the courage of your convictions.

But trust me, you have not yet seen me be rude or insulting. Thus far, all I have been is honest.

"Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed. In the same vein as what has been stated above, the player must be manually sending the commands; if a program is automating those commands for you, then it would be considered a breach of our EULA."

doesnt get more clear than that.

a) I dont beleive for a second it is a friend who got banned for bottin, i like my friends alot but i wouldnt spend hours on the forum arguering with strangers who dont have power to change anything about the situation.
b) botting and multiboxing are two unrelated issues - linking them is pointless and we are spending all our time discussing not why you got banned but why other people should get banned for doing something that is allowed.
c) you must be trolling . Nothing else makes logical sense.

So, without the lies an sheer hypocrisy-induced idiocy of the OP, let's see what the actual stance is:

According to GM Lelouch GÇ£Multiboxing is not inherently in violation of our EULA, a player is not breaking the EVE game rules by virtue of simultaneously operating multiple accounts alone.GÇ¥ No mention of any kind of computer restriction, only that using multiboxing (be it software, hardware, or manual means) to control multiple accounts/clients is ok.

Also according to GM Lelouch, GÇ£Synergy allows you to move your mouse cursor to multiple different monitors which are hooked up to different computers and we do not have any qualms with players using the program for this purpose.GÇ¥ This is the part the OP so desperate wishes it would mean that you are only allowed to use multiple computers that he has to break the EULA and start lying about the GMs. Of course, as anyone gifted with the talent of reading can tell, it does nothing of the kind. It merely says that you may use Synergy for the purpose of controlling multiple computers.

There is no restriction implied in that statement. Especially not since it s/he goes on to clarify what a rule-breaking offence would look like: GÇ£If Synergy was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowedGÇ¥. She even specifies the general case GÇö not just Synergy + multiple computers GÇö as: GÇ£Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed.GÇ¥ Note the end: multiple game clients. No restriction on number of computers where those clients must reside.

Some time later, a new piece of software is on the market, and the official statement from GM Lelouch is: GÇ£I've watched the video in the original post in this thread (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU46QY8lMqI) and I can confirm that nothing done in this particular video is considered to be against the rules as operations within the game are being manually input and not automated.GÇ¥ The software and circumstances of the video? ISBoxer and multiple clients on a single desktop.



You are lying OP. You are lying about something that the GMs will not look favourably upon: you're lying about what they say. You should stop it before something bad happens to you and the positions are reversed so that your botting friend will have to come to the forums and try to invent some story about how your ban was unfairGǪ

GǪoh, andGǪWhy should they stop when they're playing the game 100% legitimately?

ok - to heck with the debate about what GMs have said

lets move from theory onto reality ..

CCP bans botters for life
CCP does not ban multiboxers at all

thats empirical truth you can take the bank.

This does not forbid multiboxing. It just forbids using macros our third-party software (like a bot) to go faster than ordinary gameplay. If you aren't going any faster than you would at ordinary gameplay, multiboxing is allowed. I almost always run two characters, and I alt+tab between windows and keep them logged in at the same time. This is not against the EULA. I am also doing this on the same computer.

I hope that "See yall all later o/" is because you don't want to miss you appointment with a mental health professional.