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Anasur
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Posted - 2006.07.15 05:27:00 -
[1]
As has been known for some time, the Tier 2 battlecruiser for the Caldari will be a missile boat(Hopefully with a RoF bonus like the Raven and not the incredibly restrictive kinetic missild dmg boost)
This will leave the Ferox as the favorite of rail users, at least in theory. But since it no longer needs to be a functional missile boat, should it be changed? Right now, the Ferox is an absolute pain to fit with rails given its abysmal power grid. Its PG is 1000, far inferior to the other Battlecruisers, while its CPU is the best. I think it should have its CPU dropped a bit, and PG significantly boosted, so it can function as an effective Rail platform without much heavier fitting skills than required to outfit it with missiles. Also, giving it 1 more turret hardpoint would better bring it in line with the other BCs as well. Any thoughts?
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.15 05:32:00 -
[2]
My opinion has always been directed to the hardpoints. I think it flat out has too many missile hardpoints to be a gun-boat heh. ---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Double TaP
The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.07.15 05:38:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven My opinion has always been directed to the hardpoints. I think it flat out has too many missile hardpoints to be a gun-boat heh.
They did that because we didn't have a missile boat at the time. Now we will, yay! Yea Ferox could probably do with a small reshuffling after the new bc comes out. But the first thing that needs to be fixed is the nighthawk.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.07.15 06:42:00 -
[4]
The Ferox is a solid ship as it is, isn't it? --*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Dethis
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.15 06:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tachy The Ferox is a solid ship as it is, isn't it?
Yes just most caldari use missiles mainly and dont have very good gunnery skills so instead of putting guns on a gun ship and doing mediocre damage they fit missiles and do decent damage.
Mainly just needs the missile hardpoints taken down to something like 2 or 3 -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
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Anasur
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Posted - 2006.07.15 06:58:00 -
[6]
The reason it is flown with missiles instead of guns is not just because most Caldari have missile skills. Its because it is damn near impossible to fit a decent rail setup given its horrible powergrid. If they want this ship to be actually used after the new BC comes out, they are going to have to boost PG and maybe make a few other changes, otherwise it will only be usable by people with a ton of skillpoints for the fittings. There is a reason all the other BCs have a LOT more PG than the Ferox does.
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B0rn2KiLL
Turbulent Subversion
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Posted - 2006.07.15 07:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Anasur The reason it is flown with missiles instead of guns is not just because most Caldari have missile skills. Its because it is damn near impossible to fit a decent rail setup given its horrible powergrid. If they want this ship to be actually used after the new BC comes out, they are going to have to boost PG and maybe make a few other changes, otherwise it will only be usable by people with a ton of skillpoints for the fittings. There is a reason all the other BCs have a LOT more PG than the Ferox does.
true its still treated as a Missile boat considering its PG, as all Missle ships have small PG. faulty planing by CCP really. ---
new sig, Hijack it and ill eat u. *Imaran hands B0rn2KiLL a fork - Come get some!11
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.15 07:53:00 -
[8]
In the balance patch after the tier 2 is introduced (not the same one, give it some time), I think I'd change the ferox to be more gunboaty: more grid (about 100), another turret hardpoint, 3 less missile hardpoints.
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Khazhran Sotomo
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.15 08:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Khazhran Sotomo on 15/07/2006 08:29:57
Originally by: Anasur The reason it is flown with missiles instead of guns is not just because most Caldari have missile skills. Its because it is damn near impossible to fit a decent rail setup given its horrible powergrid. ... There is a reason all the other BCs have a LOT more PG than the Ferox does.
As in the fact that it will always be worth it to shove as many missiles onto it as possible given the gimpyness of an optimal range bonus in comparison to any other bonus? Even if you were able to mount 6 turrets and only 4 missiles on it (thus moving one allowed missile slot to be a turret slot) and gave it the required grid to fit a full rack of 250mms, you'd still get better performance out of the missiles.
That in and of itself is the issue with the ferox as a railboat, and in a nutshell with the merlin and moa (imagine if you had equal launchers slots to the turrets slots on those, why would you ever fit it with rails?). Optimal range bonuses do little to help you when the only other distinctions for the race's ships are ECM, slow speed, and being entirely shield tanking.
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.15 13:22:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 15/07/2006 13:22:39 I'd like to see them: - drop 2 missile hardpoints in favor of another turret. - add 100 grid and remove some CPU.
If it still proves too hard to fit as an effective rail boat, then: - add one low slot (for more power or damage or tracking mods)
And yes, the Ferox is an effective ship right now but mostly as a missile tosser. When the tier 2 missile spamming BC goes into production the Ferox will drop off the radar, unless CCP gives it a little rail lovin.
-= Save the Gila! Fix its grid and cpu! =-
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.15 13:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dethis Edited by: Dethis on 15/07/2006 06:59:56 *edit*
Mainly just needs the missile hardpoints taken down to something like 2 or 3 And PG increased as pointed out below
/agree
Team Minmatar |
Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.07.15 14:23:00 -
[12]
- 1 missile hardpoint
+ 2 turret hardpoints + 150 PG
See this thread for the reasoning and discussion. ---
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FireMonk
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.15 14:49:00 -
[13]
Hate to burst ure bubble but i got a railox with a fullr ack of t2 250mm 2 assault launchers a good tank and mag stabs But thats only with maxed out fitting skills (cept advanced weapon upgrades 4)
So yeh give it more pg less cpu and drop 2 missile hardpoint in favour of another turret and it might just be able to some decent damage against sumthing bigger than a frig -----------------------
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Nemain
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.15 15:48:00 -
[14]
I don't know, I know the ferox has an optimal bonus but I personally see it as a tank not a gun boat. It would still have it's place if a true gunboat BC was introduced. Just make sure the ferox has more shields than the other BC and it will always have a roll.
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Double TaP
The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.07.15 15:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nemain I don't know, I know the ferox has an optimal bonus but I personally see it as a tank not a gun boat. It would still have it's place if a true gunboat BC was introduced. Just make sure the ferox has more shields than the other BC and it will always have a roll.
no.
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Nemain
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.15 16:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Double TaP
Originally by: Nemain I don't know, I know the ferox has an optimal bonus but I personally see it as a tank not a gun boat. It would still have it's place if a true gunboat BC was introduced. Just make sure the ferox has more shields than the other BC and it will always have a roll.
no.
Why no? I would think a middle ground ship between missile and gun boat with much better defence would have a roll, especailly when defence is the main need as opposed to damage out put. I'd love to see a 5-3 turret-missile gunboat with 10% optimal and 5% damage, along with a 5-3 missile-turret boat with 5% rof and 5% damage both with 5 mids. That would put Ferox right in the middle with better defence and flexibility, Well anyway, thats my view, if we all agreed where would the fun be in that .
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.15 16:05:00 -
[17]
it needs more pg,
fitting 200mm t2 fails alone reqs powergrid mods, i like the range bonus, but it certainly needs more pg. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.15 20:26:00 -
[18]
It needs the hardpoint split changed from 5/5 to 6/1 and a significant boost to powergrid. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.15 20:44:00 -
[19]
However the changes are made... it needs to be the rail answer to the sleipnir.
Team Minmatar |
Hydrian Alante
Galactic Fighter Syndicate Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.07.15 21:02:00 -
[20]
It needs the missile hardpoints cutted down to 2. And this before the new Ter 2 Battlecruiser.
/me likes to see all those stupid caldari ppl whine
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.07.15 21:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: HippoKing In the balance patch after the tier 2 is introduced (not the same one, give it some time), I think I'd change the ferox to be more gunboaty: more grid (about 100), another turret hardpoint, 3 less missile hardpoints.
yup and no need to cut on cpu as it is a shield tank
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Scott McClellan
Forum Posters Anonymous
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Posted - 2006.07.15 21:46:00 -
[22]
They should have a decent railgun platform in the Medium class. The Moa is laughable.
Maybe it's just me but I hate ships that are too "multirole" IE have not enough slots to be a decent gun OR missile ship.
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Jacinto Naysmith
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.15 22:31:00 -
[23]
I think if you gave the Moa a 5th turret slot, and the Ferox a 6th or 7th turret slot, you'd see a lot more people using them in both PVP and PVE. With so few turret hardpoints its very difficult to put the turret bonus to good use.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.07.16 00:14:00 -
[24]
I suspect that the Tier 2 Cald BC will do more damage but be a worse ship than the current missile Ferox.
It really wont be fair to current players if they end up with a worse missile ship out of the addition of tier 2.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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FFGR
Euphoria Released Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.07.16 01:48:00 -
[25]
For the tier 2 to be successful, you need to remove 2-3 launcher slots from the Ferox.
Reason is that the Ferox is a very good passive shield tanking boat, something that is IMPOSSIBLE to get close to if you use turrets, because they eat much more PG. _____________________________
siggys v. 0.5 |
Yodohime Kibagami
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.16 03:09:00 -
[26]
It would probably need a new boni to go with it, 10% increase in optimal isnt quite as nice as 5% damage of the brutix, that also sports two more turrets as is.
Is there really any reason to use ferox as a railboat over the brutix, even if there magically were similar turret number on each? the bastardly tank possible with shields?
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Jerick Ludhowe
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Verisum Family
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Posted - 2006.07.16 03:13:00 -
[27]
I really don't think the Ferox needs such radical changes as some people have suggested. All it needs is another turret and maybee 100 more grid.
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Mogrin
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Posted - 2006.07.16 03:27:00 -
[28]
I like the ferox the way it is.
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Dahak2150
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Posted - 2006.07.16 03:59:00 -
[29]
So it seems the consensus is....
--Fewer missile points (Say minimum of two. Make it a larger Moa. Couple missiles to help swat frigs and whatnot because it doesn't have a huge drone bay. My contribution to the discussion.) --More turret points --More PG
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Mogrin
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Posted - 2006.07.16 04:20:00 -
[30]
Heres why I say dont change it. If you have battlecruiser and hybrid weapons trained, then you can already fly a brutix, and its gonna be way better than this ferox could ever be at hybrid turret. So if I feel like flying a rail BC, im gonna fly a brutix anyways. So leave the ferox's missile turrets alone imo.
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