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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.07.15 17:02:00 -
[1]
So, having seen how the tournament plays out, and weighing the impact of the rules on the fights, what squad of five ships do you think would be the best overall choice? You don't have to read mine to contribute your own.
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Here's mine: (Note: I used a "Perfect 5s" skill profile in Quickfit, so some of these fittings might be impossible as stated. Fitting mods can probably make up the difference.)
BS: Caldari Navy Raven H: Seven Arbalest cruise launchers and a large shield transporter M: T2 hardeners, heavy cap booster (800) and maybe a sensor booster L: BCU II, a damage control and maybe fitting mods as needed Drones: 2x Heavy, 2x Medium and 1x Light Shield Maintenance Bots
BC: Vulture H: Gang mods (Shield Harmonization, Active Shielding, Recon Operation), 4x 250mm Railgun II (or Prototype) (Plutonium) M: Cap Booster (400s), Shield hardeners, maybe a sensor booster L: 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II, PDS II Drones: 5x Light Shield Maintenance Bots
Cruiser: Basilisk(No joke!) H: 4x Heavy shield transporters, 2x rocket launchers (Defenders) M: 2x Medium cap boosters (800), shield hardeners L: 2x Reactor Control Unit
Destroyer: Cormorant H: 7x 150mm prototype rails, rocket launcher M: Sensor Booster, shield amplifiers L: Reactor Control Unit
Frigate: Manticore H: 3x Arbalest Cruise Launchers, 2x empty slots M: Shield resistance amplifiers L: 2x Power Diagnostic II
That's the I-win button. The Basilisk can use just two of its shield transporters to give the CNR far more shield than any legal XL booster could give it, so it can remote tank the CNR and the Vulture to unheard-of levels.
Meanwhile, the CNR and Vulture can use their drones to keep the basilisk pumping. As long as nobody runs out of cap charges, these guys can tank anything.
The Cormorant and Manticore are meat on a stick, but with resistances and a quick Basilisk pilot, they could stay alive long enough to get a few volleys in, and maybe nuke the other team's destroyer/frigate ships.
This team suffers in the DPS department for want of a HAC or any offensive drones, but if you manage to keep the Manticore alive you've got ten cruise launchers and four medium rails going, which would make for some potent hits. The ability to match damage types with the missiles means you can fire a variety, check your log, then swap out for maximum ownage.
That's enough armchair quarterbacking from me.
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Bean Doodle
Wasteland Industries Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.07.15 17:15:00 -
[2]
All minmatar, all gank. dunno which ships, but id go with 5 minnie ships with the biggest arties and emp ammo. no tank at all, just hiighpowered mega pwnage
--- Bean Doodle, WIN's private Spammer, Whiner, Begger, Commmon-Enemy, L33t-Sp33ching-teen and POS suicider. |
welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.07.15 17:29:00 -
[3]
I think tank will win it, shield tank.
CNR Vulture Eagle/Ishtar Sabre Harpy
In this sort of event tank > damage.
Isk will win the tournament, the best implants and the best ships replaced after every fight.
Perhaps they should do it in tech I ships with tech I gear next time, then we'll see who the real pvp'ers are.
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.07.15 17:32:00 -
[4]
Originally by: welsh wizard Perhaps they should do it in tech I ships with tech I gear next time, then we'll see who the real pvp'ers are.
That would rule. And make 'em clone jump to the event, as someone else suggested, so there are no implants. No T2, no named modules, no implants, just T1 junk that a newb could build. That's what I call a contest.
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welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.07.15 17:37:00 -
[5]
It's exciting stuff anyway and a good showcase for all the fancy tech II ships but it just means that after 4 or 5 fights only the heavy weights (financially) are going to be left fielding decent ships.
It might not be that smaller alliances can't afford it more to do with whether they want to afford it.
I can only see one winner because they have the isk, the implants, the pilots and the know how.
I hope I'm proven wrong.
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SengH
Black Omega Security E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.07.15 18:54:00 -
[6]
why the heck are you fitting the reocn operation gang mod when it affects ECM ..... and ECM isnt allowed in the tourney..
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.07.15 19:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: SengH why the heck are you fitting the reocn operation gang mod when it affects ECM ..... and ECM isnt allowed in the tourney..
I thought it boosted scan resolution, for quicker locking. Hang on...
I think I'm right, but that should have been the shield efficiency command module anyway. And active shielding won't do my any good without boosters, so...
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Strong Bubba
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Posted - 2006.07.15 19:21:00 -
[8]
All caldari or a mix with gallente.
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Foulis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.15 20:28:00 -
[9]
Well, judging from how all the matches I've seen have gone. Ishkur is the best frigate. I've only seen one crow otherwise. ----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
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Kai Lae
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.15 21:29:00 -
[10]
Since there's no need for tackling in these fights, and also no need to be able to run or be evasive in some kind of skirmish fighting, I doubt you'll see many interceptors at all. These are the things intys are good at, fighting/ganking in enemy territory and also as tacklers, and both don't apply here. On the other hand AF can dish out good damage, and they have a excellent tank for a small ship, so you'll see many of them. Frankly I'm not sure why I don't see more retributions since the 1 mid slot means nothing here, and it's quite possible to get 2k armor on a retribution. The ishkur has the advantage of being able to port rep drones which seem to be a big advantage in this fighting.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.07.16 00:07:00 -
[11]
Ishkur seems very popular and effective. I wonder why the Harpy isn't seeing more use, since the engagements seem to stay at long range (50km or so, generally) and the Harpy's bonus lets it do some harm at that distance.
Like I said above, though, I think that the Manticore would probably do the most good before exploding.
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splattercat
Special Tactics and Operations Party O X I D E
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Posted - 2006.07.16 00:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: welsh wizard It's exciting stuff anyway and a good showcase for all the fancy tech II ships but it just means that after 4 or 5 fights only the heavy weights (financially) are going to be left fielding decent ships.
It might not be that smaller alliances can't afford it more to do with whether they want to afford it.
I can only see one winner because they have the isk, the implants, the pilots and the know how.
I hope I'm proven wrong.
From one of the smaller allances, we may have lost match no 1 but we WILL match isk for isk the big boys even if we have to get loans / beg ect. We did not enter to lose and will make the cash to keep going one way or another. Wish us luck next one coz we are not backing down. (dont count us small guys out)
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.07.16 03:10:00 -
[13]
That's the spirit. If push comes to shove, I'm willing to bet that most everyone out there can scrounge up the ships and modules to do it up right. Even the feeblest carebear alliance has some mission running nutjob who's been grinding level 4 jobs since the agents were introduced, and has a hangar full of CNRs.
Implants will be a factor, but I think every dedicated participant will be able to pony up the dough to do the job right.
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mallina
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.16 04:20:00 -
[14]
i'd personally like to see what a Gankageddon would be capable of here, especially considering how effective it'd be versus the kind of ships most people are flying. think: 7x mega pulse II 1x web, 2x cap recharger IIs 3x heatsink II, 1x DCU, 4x 1600mms (or resistance gear if being remote tanked)
fight starts at 50km - so you're already in Scorch range, meaning you have great tracking and good damage, plus you can get even closer and switch to Conflag for the extreme amounts of damage needed to break the tougher tanks
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.07.16 04:49:00 -
[15]
No T2 ammo, though.
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DarkFollower
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.16 05:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: mallina i'd personally like to see what a Gankageddon would be capable of here, especially considering how effective it'd be versus the kind of ships most people are flying. think: 7x mega pulse II 1x web,2x cap recharger IIs 3x heatsink II, 1x DCU, 4x 1600mms (or resistance gear if being remote tanked)
fight starts at 50km - so you're already in Scorch range, meaning you have great tracking and good damage, plus you can get even closer and switch to Conflag for the extreme amounts of damage needed to break the tougher tanks
Why cap rechargers .... ?? a cap booster would be much better ihmo And at 50 km u're not exactly in optimal , close to it , but that's if u are using as u said scorch and thats a tech II crystal wich it isn't alowed Cap recharges on PvP ships Suxxor monkey ballzorz!! |
welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.07.16 10:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: splattercat
Originally by: welsh wizard It's exciting stuff anyway and a good showcase for all the fancy tech II ships but it just means that after 4 or 5 fights only the heavy weights (financially) are going to be left fielding decent ships.
It might not be that smaller alliances can't afford it more to do with whether they want to afford it.
I can only see one winner because they have the isk, the implants, the pilots and the know how.
I hope I'm proven wrong.
From one of the smaller allances, we may have lost match no 1 but we WILL match isk for isk the big boys even if we have to get loans / beg ect. We did not enter to lose and will make the cash to keep going one way or another. Wish us luck next one coz we are not backing down. (dont count us small guys out)
The best of luck then, I'll be supporting the underdogs, always.
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mallina
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.16 11:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: DarkFollower
Why cap rechargers .... ?? a cap booster would be much better ihmo And at 50 km u're not exactly in optimal , close to it , but that's if u are using as u said scorch and thats a tech II crystal wich it isn't alowed
PG is way too tight for an injector,and only thing using cap will be guns. 2 rechargers is enough I find unless facing a nos/neutaholic. In most cases I only use injectors when active tanking
keep forgetting about the no t2 ammo thing, but multifreq is still deadly on this setup at around 20km or less - the mega pulse II could be swapped for modulates to make room for something worthwhile like an AB or if you do want to be able to confidently dive into a nosdomi, injector
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Semkhet
KR0M The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.07.17 12:07:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Semkhet on 17/07/2006 12:12:33
All I can say to the OP is that his proposal is way off being the "I-Win button", first because you adapt ships, gear, skills and tactics to the opponent you will face, and this prevents any universal design.
Second, because there's not enough interoperability and complementarity in that wing.
Third, you don't opt for T1 destroyers when these are afflicted by a generic 25% ROF penalty or a bomber with such little survavibility that you could be happy if it has the time to get a single volley to hit before being popped...
Would such a team take part in the tournament, your frig and dessy would be popped in the first 30 seconds at most. After 3 minutes, logistic cruiser popped, and this would leave 12 long minutes where your Vulture and CNR would be taken in pieces. You simply don't have enough variety of weapon systems nor firepower to have any chance against a good team. I'll kindly advise you to get back to the drawing board.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.17 13:31:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/07/2006 13:31:58 I sent this question into the show, and Ifni answered:
Navy Apoc (I think) Damnation Zealot Amarr Dessie Crusader
I personally think the Huginn is the I-Win button though.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles- |
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Raid
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.17 14:52:00 -
[21]
Sadly this tournament will end with the richest on top. No doubt about that.
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Semkhet
KR0M The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.07.17 15:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Raid Sadly this tournament will end with the richest on top. No doubt about that.
No doubt about that ?
Is Isk a cure for a missing brain ? NO Does isk enhance your tactical flair ? NO Does isk improve your experience ? NO Does isk accelerate your skills training ? NO
You know who's loosing isk in the tournament ? The loosers, dude, not the winners...
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Darpz
Novus Nationis Stain- Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.17 17:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Raid Sadly this tournament will end with the richest on top. No doubt about that.
tbh money hasn't been a factor (well you need enough to get a proper ship but not Billions like some have said)
this tourney is more about stratagy than isk
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Uchikage
MASS Stain- Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.17 21:01:00 -
[24]
My dream team:
CNR: flown by Nick Curso. This guy is so awesome, and that's why I lub him.
Slepnir: flown by Uchikage. Sweet shield resistances, great dps, and gang modules. Yay.
Huginn: flown by Shivan. Not only is Shivan Camador's girl lover, but she has great hair and skin, not too sickly looking like some Sibestor.
Flycatcher: flown by Kernal. He is so handsome and quick on his toes. For some reason, his shield boosting setup is really good too.
Ishkur: flown by Darpz. His Hammerhead IIs do more damage than mine because of his uber skills. And if you get close he Blastorz you and FRAPSes the whole thing to add insult to injury. _______________________________________________ "...which will become my sword in the very near future." "Bish, you don't have a future."
Who Dares, Wins -SAS |
Uchikage
MASS Stain- Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.17 21:11:00 -
[25]
Oh, and for the money = win people. Did I spend 650m on a crystal implant set, or a 1.8b on a high-grade crystal set? We may never know. In the 2 matches I have been in so far, neither I nor my battleship pilot has hit our shield booster once. Seriously, for a tech 1 battleship + all tech 2 gear + all tech 2 fitted tech 2 small ships it costs something like 500-600m after you buy insurance. That's not a lot of money for some individuals, never mind the 64 largest pvp alliances in the galaxy. _______________________________________________ "...which will become my sword in the very near future." "Bish, you don't have a future."
Who Dares, Wins -SAS |
shivan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.18 03:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Darpz
Originally by: Raid Sadly this tournament will end with the richest on top. No doubt about that.
tbh money hasn't been a factor (well you need enough to get a proper ship but not Billions like some have said)
this tourney is more about stratagy than isk
Yup, so long as you keep losses to a min then you don't need to worry about isk too much.
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13th
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Posted - 2006.07.18 18:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Darpz
Originally by: Raid Sadly this tournament will end with the richest on top. No doubt about that.
tbh money hasn't been a factor (well you need enough to get a proper ship but not Billions like some have said)
this tourney is more about stratagy than isk
This man speaks the Truth. Implants help, but they will not win the match for you. You still need to beat your opponent.
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Cl0nED
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Posted - 2006.07.21 02:50:00 -
[28]
There comes a point where you have to wonder weither or not its "Worth" winning, if you had billions in bets on your alliance then maybe it be worth to keep on fighting but in the end we all have a good clue of who can afford to keep on losing really expensive ships.
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Semkhet
KR0M The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.07.21 08:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cl0nED There comes a point where you have to wonder weither or not its "Worth" winning, if you had billions in bets on your alliance then maybe it be worth to keep on fighting but in the end we all have a good clue of who can afford to keep on losing really expensive ships.
This tournament is not really about winning isk in a pure risk/investment/benefits perspective. It's more about having fun among friends and try to design tactics working within an imposed fighting environment. Many teams lost before they even were moved to the arena, they just did'n knew it at that time Conceptually, it's quite similar to chess: you need the ability to explore an exponential amount of possibilities, then restrain yourself to the most plausible paths, and finally think many steps ahead in order to maintain your options open.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.21 08:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: welsh wizard I think tank will win it, shield tank.
CNR Vulture Eagle/Ishtar Sabre Harpy In this sort of event tank > damage.
Welsh Wizard = clever.
A co-operative tank using remote shield boosters and remote shield boost drones will win hands-down if the teamwork and co-ordination is there. Why? Becuase with no ECM you can maintain target locks on all players in your team and so can remote boost them whenever needed. With no ECM, tank does indeed beat gank in this tournament. That's something the ISS team certinly learned and the vulture tanks like an absolute ***** :D.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
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