| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jolo
   |
Posted - 2003.10.03 17:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jolo on 03/10/2003 17:44:56
I know I've suggested a BugZilla system before, but what it we set up a simple BBs type thing, where we kept an extremely updated list of current bugs in an orderly fashion. Then, we all email the devs, an let them know this page exists, and they can contribute if they want, or not. As bugs get fixed, the community can remove bugs from the list etc.
This way we will always have a nice, list that the community has access too.. then, we can always just point a link to the list. so no one has to ask: "Has this happened to you"
Maybe a new feature of Eve-I.com or something.
The list could divided into sections, like, in space, corp mgmt etc.
With special stats like: Severity, New or Known, Been in game since Blah Patch.
What do you think.
EDIT: Spellerings
---------------------------------------
|
Phaethon
|
Posted - 2003.10.03 18:05:00 -
[2]
great idea
WTB. Infifitrator I drones |
Jolo
|
Posted - 2003.10.03 20:16:00 -
[3]
anyone know of any open sourtce packages for this idea? something simple....not like bugzilla, might just be a excel spread sheet online that we can edit,
---------------------------------------
|
Lithorus
|
Posted - 2003.10.03 22:20:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
anyone know of any open sourtce packages for this idea? something simple....not like bugzilla, might just be a excel spread sheet online that we can edit,
Since when was excel opensource? :)
|
Jolo
|
Posted - 2003.10.03 22:31:00 -
[5]
Ever since OpenOffice and StarOffice came on the scene sorta.. heheh.
OpenOffice can import/export ( i think) .xls file formats.
---------------------------------------
|
Taurar
|
Posted - 2003.10.04 04:49:00 -
[6]
it wouldn't be too hard to make one
but there are other problems
we had one of those back at dr twister
devs didnt like it too much
Malachlite incognito |
elFarto
|
Posted - 2003.10.06 20:27:00 -
[7]
Why don't you write a simple bugzilla style system. It can't be that hard. If you need a hand, give me a shout ingame.
elFarto
|
Jolo
|
Posted - 2003.10.06 20:36:00 -
[8]
I could do it in php or something, but i have no bandwidth to spare (house of 6 people 1 dsl line) last thing i need is more leeching off my webserver. it would explode.
If I write somethin in PHP for MySQL anyone could prolly use it. I'll start looking into it.
---------------------------------------
|
elFarto
|
Posted - 2003.10.06 21:09:00 -
[9]
Edited by: elFarto on 06/10/2003 21:36:34
i have a shiney new domain thats looking for something todo, maybe we could come to some sort of isk for bandwidth deal 
PHP and MySQL are availible. Plus I have experience in both.
*edit* Damn it, why do you people have to put ideas into my head...i've created a simple database, and i'll look at adding some pages to my existing system tomorrow
elFarto
|
Jolo
|
Posted - 2003.10.06 22:09:00 -
[10]
w00w00. instead of loosing time on homework...
http://mantisbt.sourceforge.net/
it's a bug tracker built on PHP and MySQL. I started playing with it and it's pretty easy to set up... The whole system gziped up is 500K so it's pretty small. it's just a bunch of php pages and some images.
---------------------------------------
|
elFarto
|
Posted - 2003.10.07 08:19:00 -
[11]
I'll upload that today, and try setting it up.
elFarto
|
Traveler
|
Posted - 2003.10.07 12:43:00 -
[12]
Have you guys ever thought about that CCP already has a bug tracking system?
It is not public at the moment because also exploits are listed there. There is no need to implement an own system. In my opinion it is even contra productive. We sometimes need more then one bugreport to really see what the actual bug is. Listening known bugs would stop people to report them. Most reports are useless because of missing/incomplete reporduction steps and logfile.
If you really want to help, come to the #eve-chaos channel on irc.coldfront.net and ask for testing tasks.
Traveler
Polaris Bug Hunter Lead |
elFarto
|
Posted - 2003.10.07 19:00:00 -
[13]
Have you guys (Devs, Polaris) ever thought about the fact the users can't see the bug list?
Therefore we cannot easily see if someone else has come across this problem and offer additional advice/alternative reproduction steps/test someone elses bug to see if it happens to them.
This would help the issue of reports being useless as lots of people can comment on 1 bug. At the moment the bug are submitted to the big /dev/null at CCP, ok ok, they are looked at, but we never get to see the status of them. Is CCP looking at my bug? Was there enough information in it? Couldn't they reproduce it?
I centainly know if the tester on my application at work where to never hear of a bug after it being raised. I would get bugged every 5 minutes, asking if something was fixed, as you've seen on the forums. Because we use bugzilla (which is absolutly great) this is not the case.
As for helping on chaos, I do. But that still is no help for the people who can't/don't/won't test on chaos.
If it really doesn't work out, we can stop. But there is no harm in trying.
Regards
elFarto
|
Doc Brown
|
Posted - 2003.10.07 20:11:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Have you guys (Devs, Polaris) ever thought about the fact the users can't see the bug list?
<SNIP>
Regards
elFarto
Did you read the previous post?
Quote:
It is not public at the moment because also exploits are listed there.
To me, that's a damn good reason to keep the bug list private.
_________________________________________________
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
elFarto
|
Posted - 2003.10.07 20:36:00 -
[15]
Edited by: elFarto on 07/10/2003 20:45:27
I said nothing about making CCP's bug list public. I merely stated that it isn't public.
I relise that having exploits availible for everyone to see is a Bad Idea(tm). Exploits should be raised to CCP ASAP, so they can be fixed, to minimise damage.
Regards
elFarto
|
Jolo
|
Posted - 2003.10.07 23:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jolo on 07/10/2003 23:28:34
Yes, there is no SEARCH or any other means of querying the bugs that are known at the moment. If we had some tool to see what's out there already the forums would not be as full of the same questions and people getting mad about it.
Obvisouly we don't want them to show us the exploits, but because there's no way for us to see teh bugs that are known and being worked on (the list on the patch review is a start...) We decided to take the initive.
It's not supposed to be harmful in anyway, just a clarification.
---------------------------------------
|
Traveler
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 05:54:00 -
[17]
Ok, i will post the known issues in the updates section. I will update the list if needed.
Traveler
Polaris Bug Hunter Lead |
Helison
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 08:27:00 -
[18]
Traveler, two requests:
1) We need the patch-list back! http://eve.skjalfti.is/ is still down!
2) Please post in the patch-review forum a detailed list of issues, which have to be tested! In IRC there is often no reply on our questions.
And please post in the patchlog all differencies to the previous version. How can we test something, if we donŠt know about it?
|
Traveler
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 08:56:00 -
[19]
have you even tried to access the patch list?
look here: http://patch.eve-online.com/test-patches.html
The server has been restarted yesterday.
Traveler
Polaris Bug Hunter Lead |
elFarto
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 09:11:00 -
[20]
Edited by: elFarto on 08/10/2003 09:15:20
Well, it's up at:
http://eve.elfarto.com
When you sign up, please try to use your ingame nick, and don't use a dev nick if you don't have a ccp email, I will delete the account if you do.
Also when raising bugs please do a search to see if the problem has already been raised, if it has, please add any infomation to that bug.
Devs, Polaris: If it really doesn't work out, i'll take it down, but theres no harm in trying 
elFarto
|
Qual
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 10:48:00 -
[21]
Dear CCP. Please dont kill this. This IS needed. (But the ultimate thing would be access to your bug DB with a filter on Exploits...)
Dear elfarto: Way to go! Really needed.
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Luther Pendragon
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 11:48:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 08/10/2003 11:50:03
Its all good, but not enough. Everything needs to be integrated properly, from initial bug report, BH processing, helpfull customer testing on chaos, then up to devs. Things need to flow and info shared, but its never going to do that.
Just making a list of bugs, manually, theres one here, its stickied even. Just need the LBWs, otherwise its not even worth reporting.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
elFarto
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 11:56:00 -
[23]
Edited by: elFarto on 08/10/2003 12:08:53
I agree totally, but only CCP can do that. I'm trying to help users by keeping track of the bugs, and the devs, by allowing all the infomation for one bug to be in one place (LBW's, Screenshots, logs, etc...).
I've just enabled file uploading, so you can attach screenshots, lbw's and such
Also if raising a bug using CCP's bug tool, and the bug exists on my bug tool, put a link to it in the bug report (You can get a handy link by right click in the bug number on the main bug list and selecting properties).
Regards
elFarto
|
Luther Pendragon
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 12:28:00 -
[24]
The link...why should CCP use the link back to your list when they have the bug report in their hand in their bug tool already? You see, its just a duplication of service. BR on CCPs list, BR on your list, same same.
What is really needed is a current Bug List with bugs that helpfull testers can take a peek at, and then make a proper BR with LBWs to CCPs database, and then 'close' that bug on your list.
But what youre going to get, is pretty much what exists on this sticky thread here, alot of bugs listed, same bug probably several times, and nobody actually making LBWs of them.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
elFarto
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 15:27:00 -
[25]
CCP should bother with the link because it could contain more information than the initial bug report to CCP.
In CCP's bug tool they have lots of bug reports for one bug. In my bug tool there will be one bug report for one bug, with all the information in that one.
As for duplication, yes for CCP, and no for us as we can't see the original.
There shouldn't be the same bug reported twice on my list, if there is it will be closed as a dup of the real one. And as other people can see the bug, they can make the LBW for them, if the reporter hasn't.
Regards
elFarto
|
Luther Pendragon
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 16:48:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 08/10/2003 17:02:37
Theres no sense in trying to guess which will have 'better' information.
Theres only one kind of better info, and those are lbw's, screenshots and dmp's.
You cant garantee that you will only have one bug report for one bug, unless you want to festidously maintain it, which you cannot do if many people use it. And pointless if only few people use it.
But, if youre still eager...here is a start. Click Knownissues and add all of that to your bug tracker site. And then well hope that everyone will rush out and make lbw's for 'em. Then throw in all the stuff in the stickied 'summary bug list' thread too.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Jolo
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 17:32:00 -
[27]
up until a week or so, this list has been useless. This is a nice start though and I'm glad to see it, the idea of the bug list came up because there were no resources for us. I think they are starting to hear us though...
---------------------------------------
|
elFarto
|
Posted - 2003.10.08 19:00:00 -
[28]
Edited by: elFarto on 08/10/2003 19:01:49
Quote:
Theres no sense in trying to guess which will have 'better' information.
Theres only one kind of better info, and those are lbw's, screenshots and dmp's.
The information could exist in either bug reports, if CCP's bug report has a link to my bug report, i'm sure the devs would check it (i'm a dev myself, and i know its better to have as much info as possible before trying to fix a bug).
Quote:
You cant garantee that you will only have one bug report for one bug, unless you want to festidously maintain it, which you cannot do if many people use it. And pointless if only few people use it.
Yes I can guarantee, I get sent an email everytime a bug is raised, if I believe it to be a dup I'll check it out, if it is, it'll be closed. Plus I don't have to be the only person who mantains it.
Quote:
But, if youre still eager...here is a start. Click Knownissues and add all of that to your bug tracker site.
Thats what I'm about to do.
Quote:
And then well hope that everyone will rush out and make lbw's for 'em. Then throw in all the stuff in the stickied 'summary bug list' thread too.
If LBW's are relevant, I'll try to produce at least one tonight, if I can reproduce the bug of course.
Regards
elFarto
|
Yalson
|
Posted - 2003.10.09 09:50:00 -
[29]
Excellent idea, and I'll be using the reports as much as possible. Maybe this gets around the weekly "Haven't heard of that bug?" in the CSMs, too.
Full disclosure works. If there are exploits the information gets spread on IRC anyways.
-- Yalson
|
Ruffles
|
Posted - 2003.10.09 11:32:00 -
[30]
With all due respect to those in the eve-chaos channels, when I have been in there I have only twice had items given to me when I asked for something to do. That didn't help the other times I had been on chaos with nothing to do.
I have basically stopped reporting bugs at present, except perhaps via the patch review thread for each build, because I can't see bugs I have already reported.
With all due respect, I work in this area as well, and I don't want the same situation to occur as does in customer support, where the same people submit more then one copy of the same bug. It is counter productive, and yes whilst I agree with you that sometimes more then one bug report is require on an issue, they generally are required to come from a seperate source to provide some level of cross-comparison to identify common issues.
Hell I even went to the extreme of keeping my own bug-report list, just to determine which bugs I had tried to provide some feedback on, but that gets tedious after a while.
The other perfectly valid reason for it is to provide people with access to the reproduction steps to try to get the bug to re-occur. With out this there is a wealth of options you could be trying to do to get something to reproduce itself, and that is a waste of effort.
Access to some information, even a filtered data-view from the database would be useful. Eliminate the exploits from the dataview, and keep the other bugs (if categorised enough to do this).
I really agree with the others, that testing without a lot of this information is quite a futile task.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |