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Deadspace runis short range weapons!

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CasC Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:03:00 - [1] Well i dident find any other post about this so there is i apologize. But i have a problem with deadspace, it ruins all short range weapons, cuz you cant use your mwd, Im a blaster guy i can admitt that but im quite annoyed that i cant use em when running missions, like 60% of all missions is deadspace. Well, i dont really know how to solve this issue except allow mwd's again. Any suggestions?
Frank Dashwood	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:31:00 - [2] I agree completely. It is rather poor that mwd's and close combat weapons are almost unusable in deadspace. ...oh yeah, and while were on the subject, you notice how npc rats STILL go so fast they must be using mwd in deadspace?? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......... As far as how to solve this problem, weeeellll i dunno, i can see why they did it - to stop people kiting the entire area whilst out of range of the npc's. But really, could ccp not find another way around this problem, other than penalising the players and their choices ingame? Still, you could always do what everyone else does and get a raven (which, since you asked for suggestions, and since ccp will probably never allow mwd's in deadspace, is the only 'advice' i can give ) _________________________________________________ I dont believe 88.23% of the stuff i read on these forums, especially my own posts. (Except this one :P)
CasC Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:34:00 - [3] Hehe, true. But im one of those that think the raven is a boring ship :P hehe. Well i sure as hell hope that ccp is going to do something about that, cuz a game like eve that promotes indeviual choises ingame in skill and training and after thats promoted they penelize those choises in missions.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:36:00 - [4] Its really boring that you need a missile spammer to be effective in the missions, yeah. I posted a thread on trying to do lvl 4 missions in a Vagabond in the Missions channel, and some of the missions are appearently possible, but take alot longer. However, everyone agrees its alot more fun than spamming missiles semi-afk. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:38:00 - [5] npcs suck major but i not quite sure if missiles suck more Greetings Grim
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:39:00 - [6] Its in order to stop people just kiting all the rats in a deadspace and doing it with no chance of getting shot at. It IS a bit unfair though
Tarnish Katharr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:41:00 - [7] I use a Blaster Megathron for most of my missions and even the deadspace missions are easy enough. Put a T2 100MN Afterburner in there and it flies. ------------------- Stop whining!
lofty29 Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:43:00 - [8] Edited by: lofty29 on 18/07/2006 19:43:16 Originally by: Tarnish Katharr I use a Blaster Megathron for most of my missions and even the deadspace missions are easy enough. Put a T2 100MN Afterburner in there and it flies. At a whole 400m/s? Yey... --------------------------- Originally by: HippoKing ...I suck at forums
Kurren Farscape Mining	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:45:00 - [9] Originally by: lofty29 Edited by: lofty29 on 18/07/2006 19:43:16 Originally by: Tarnish Katharr I use a Blaster Megathron for most of my missions and even the deadspace missions are easy enough. Put a T2 100MN Afterburner in there and it flies. At a whole 400m/s? Yey... Well... remember how fast it went without the AB? All I can suggest is the AB as well, though. --- --- --- --- SobaKai.com
CasC Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:47:00 - [10] Yea well of course iv tried using a ab, but hell it doesnt give me enough speed to do my **** and get out of there again. Well i still think that ccp has made a really bad choise in this matter.

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:56:00 - [11] If I was a mission designer, i would put in fewer opponents, but make them much harder, and make them fight the player alone. They might try to close the distance using MWD if they are megathrons, or they might use a MWD to keep distance if they are Ravens. Just make it more realistic. Sitting at 80 km popping ships in a missile spammer is about as interesting as mining. Make it so specific strategies are required to fight certain shiptypes, just like in pvp. The options are right there... ive seen spider drones use their MWD and web in a very realistic way compared to what player assault frigs do. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Splagada Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.18 20:54:00 - [12] Originally by: CasC Hehe, true. But im one of those that think the raven is a boring ship :P and totally overpowered in missions bah i still stick to my roots and keep my autopest setup :p - evemail me if you need a free forum for your corp
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:02:00 - [13] Originally by: CasC Yea well of course iv tried using a ab, but hell it doesnt give me enough speed to do my **** and get out of there again. well then learn to use the ship properly, because it does for me. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Jacob Holland	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:09:00 - [14] Given the rats' "cheater" MWDs (they're definitely MWDs - try firing heavy missions at Guristas Webifiers and watch the damage rocket when they speed up and drastically increase their sig rad) I do wish that deadspace would be modified to allow MWDs. With an MWD my Thorax ripped through BS belt spawns, I could close to useful range quickly (and therefore survive the incoming fire thanks to my plate) and make use of short range weapons, it had the added advantage that I ended up quite close to the loot Taking the same rax (with a named 10MN AB) into a Complex however just didn't work - Caracals could handle the first room (by kiting) but I could not close quickly enough to get my transversal up before my armour melted.
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.07.18 22:18:00 - [15] Yeah, this is VERY annoying, and I've been cursing this ever since I trained up MWDs a while ago. It really is unfair. Not only are missiles the most effective anyway, but in most missions using short-range weapons isn't feasible at all, and for battleships rails really suck ass. They do totally ****ty damage most of the time (I can't imagine skills changing it that much, since it sucks even when tracking isn't an issue), and don't track basically at all. So when enemy isn't within web range and not far enough to be hit, you're pretty much screwed damage-dealing-wise. Options? Use missiles, or a drone boat. Best choice? Use missiles, since they're a lot faster and more powerful than drones, and don't cause whole levels to aggro you. Fair? Hell no I guess my option if I want to be more effective would have to be getting a Typhoon (no way in hell I'd use a #ñ%&#& Raven, besides I've already Minmatar trained to BC-level), for combined drone use + missile spam. Problem being, getting cruise missiles will take a while... Silverleaf Foundation Website & Shop
Darius Shakor Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.18 22:45:00 - [16] For the record, I have had no problems taking on deadspace complexes with autocannon fitted Wolf's or in the case of some lower complexes, a blaster fitted Incursus. Just takes guts to get in there and do the damage thang. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal Every man has a devil. You can never rest until you find it.
Tsanse Kinske Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 23:06:00 - [17] No problem here using ACs and AB...well, there are problems but they're the fun kind. That's only L3s though. Am I going to have to go long range to succeed in L4s? It's going to take a long time to get my skills up, but I'm really hoping to make an Autobond work for those. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Xaen Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 23:50:00 - [18] Originally by: CasC Edited by: CasC on 18/07/2006 19:05:51 Well i dident find any other post about this so there is i apologize. But i have a problem with deadspace, it ruins all short range weapons, cuz you cant use your mwd, Im a blaster guy i can admitt that but im quite annoyed that i cant use em when running missions, like 60% of all missions is deadspace. Well, i dont really know how to solve this issue except allow mwd's again. Any suggestions? So use long range weapons. I don't see the problem here. You know how the game works so use that to your advantage. If they change it tomorrow so that short range weapons work better, use those tomorrow. /me resists the urge to troll.......barely. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Theists should not try to use logic to prove their gods exist; it makes as much sense as spiders playing with matches.
Xelios Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.18 23:56:00 - [19] Edited by: Xelios on 18/07/2006 23:57:18 Short range in deadspace is a waste of time really, on some missions more than others. Some of the BS rats orbit at 50km, and while you could AB yourself over there you have to chase them down one at a time. And hope they don't venture outside their range, cause if they do they mwd back to the 'center' at 1km/s+. Then you get to fly allll the way back. The no mwd thing was put in because people were kiting the npc's. Back when 10/10 complexes were first introduced 4 of us in BC's managed to complete the serpentis one with no difficulty. Of course we were running 100mn AB's, which also were nerfed. One guy would go in with a 6km/s frigate and get all the npcs to agress him, then the 4 BC's would move in and pop the overseer. We didn't even have to do the first few stages, we just went directly from stage one to the last stage by flying there on sublight (was only a few thousand km, took 20 minutes or so). Not sure why it's still in place though. Other than the 'fly between the stages' trick...
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Darius Shakor For the record, I have had no problems taking on deadspace complexes with autocannon fitted Wolf's or in the case of some lower complexes, a blaster fitted Incursus. Just takes guts to get in there and do the damage thang. Well yeah, I forgot to add that with frigates it's still possible, but with anything bigger? Not really. Well, maybe with a Stabber. But other than autocannon ships (since they have better range compared to blasters) I go with the long-range option almost all the time, it's just faster and easier. Silverleaf Foundation Website & Shop

Crumplecorn Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:36:00 - [21] I just stopped doing missions once I got into a Thorax. Ratting in 0.0 instead FTW. ---------- Always Up To SomethingÖ One of us is really thick, and I hope its you - Kalaan Oratay
Ysolde Xen Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:52:00 - [22] Embarrasing noob question but what is 'kiting' NPCs? (Not a player of other MMORPGs) ----- It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong.
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:57:00 - [23] The other posts about this are rather old. When deadspace was introduced a lot of people including me complained about this. But we're stuck with it for better or worse.
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Ysolde Xen Embarrasing noob question but what is 'kiting' NPCs? (Not a player of other MMORPGs) Kiting is attacking a npc from long range ( bow/guns ) and continuasly moving back while attacking, so the NPC cannot attack back.
Sensor Error 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.19 09:09:00 - [25] It's an old topic, it's deliberate, You would make FAAARR too much money (yeah, I know, you can make stupid money doing lvl4 missions and it makes no sense) if you could zip around a deadspace arena with all of those targets to shoot at in a short range setup. As for the NPC rats, it has been said by the devs that they don't use MWD. They just use REEEEALLLY good afterburners... What does make me laugh is the way that concord can warp to a deadspace arena without having to use the gate... Anyway. This has been debated a lot. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!! ------------------------------------------ Dev Responses to common questions
Gariuys Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 09:11:00 - [26] Originally by: Sensor Error It's an old topic, it's deliberate, You would make FAAARR too much money (yeah, I know, you can make stupid money doing lvl4 missions and it makes no sense) if you could zip around a deadspace arena with all of those targets to shoot at in a short range setup. As for the NPC rats, it has been said by the devs that they don't use MWD. They just use REEEEALLLY good afterburners... What does make me laugh is the way that concord can warp to a deadspace arena without having to use the gate... Anyway. This has been debated a lot. Bull has nothing to do with it... cause killing faster is counteracted by the fact that you also have to tank a lot harder. And most importantly, doing them from long range is actually a lot faster then doing them with a short ranger 90% of the time.
Snowpig United Alliance Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.07.19 09:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Sensor Error ... They just use REEEEALLLY good afterburners... ... Ever looted a BS-afterburner from an Angel Viper, like me?
Darius Shakor Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.19 10:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Tehyarec Originally by: Darius Shakor For the record, I have had no problems taking on deadspace complexes with autocannon fitted Wolf's or in the case of some lower complexes, a blaster fitted Incursus. Just takes guts to get in there and do the damage thang. Well yeah, I forgot to add that with frigates it's still possible, but with anything bigger? Not really. Well, maybe with a Stabber. But other than autocannon ships (since they have better range compared to blasters) I go with the long-range option almost all the time, it's just faster and easier. Did I also mention I use a Typhoon a lot for deadspace too and I usually like to get close for my Nos and drones and autocannons? Easy enough there too. Just fit so you can survive long enough to get close and suck the cap from them. Then they are all yours. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal Every man has a devil. You can never rest until you find it.
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.07.19 12:54:00 - [29] Edited by: Tehyarec on 19/07/2006 12:54:33 Originally by: Darius Shakor Did I also mention I use a Typhoon a lot for deadspace too and I usually like to get close for my Nos and drones and autocannons? Easy enough there too. Just fit so you can survive long enough to get close and suck the cap from them. Then they are all yours. Or just use nos + missiles + drones and don't worry about range (or transversal) much (except having someone close enough to use nos on, but since I mostly do Serpentis missions, they're usually within heavy nos range), which is incidentally what I plan on doing. I did some calculations, and a Typhoon with torps or cruises seems to outdamage a drone-Domi while tanking almost as well. So, it'll make my mission running more efficient (at least on paper), while not having to use a "#ñ"&" Raven. So, I guess I'll be finally training for Typhoon and torps/cruises "Soon(tm)" - my Domi's insurance runs out in two weeks anyway Silverleaf Foundation Website & Shop
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 12:57:00 - [30] Hmm. What is faster... sitting still spamming missiles from 80 km away, or trying to close distance to each and every rat you want to fight using close ranged weapons? Not to mention you will take lots more damage up close, and using drones in missions can cause the entire area to aggro you. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Lord Frost Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.19 13:14:00 - [31] The way I see it... if the devs tooks out mwd in deadspace to make missions harder... then why are missions still easy as pie? Like people have stated, just fit a raven and you are fine. so what exactly did CCP accomplish by omitting the use of mwds? aren't people STILL doing missions with ease? On one side... if you take out mwds... you limit the possibly ship types and guns, but any player can still fit a missle boat and dominate. On the other side... if you allow mwds... will the missions be anymore harder than they are now? or easier for that matter? NO... but alteast we can kit a ship to our likeing and maybe even provide more options than a fricken raven.
Sheryl X	Posted - 2006.07.19 14:25:00 - [32] I have a realativly new character that I'm playing with, and I did NOT know that MWDs do not work in dedspace. I can't say how dissapointed I was to get those skills and saw that I could MWD in dedspace. I just use autocannons on my cruiser and getting close to 10 mobs that are shooting missiles from 50k out is not fun. Even with 700m/s afterburner. My 2 cents.
Nev Clavain Wise Guys	Posted - 2006.07.19 14:27:00 - [33] Allow mwds in deadspace and you can probably solo a level 4 in an inty. Whether there is anything wrong with that is not for me to say, but it does seem a little out of proportion at least. Whatever changes you make to missions someone will find a way to mechanically grind them out with as little player input as possible.
mallina Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 14:30:00 - [34] I've never used mwd for npcing Just train up navigation, accel control as much as you can, get the hardwirings to increase velocity and afterburner boost (even if only the 3% ones) and use a Gist B-type AB (not all that expensive, BS variant is only about 30-40mil) and fit a nano in a loslot, and you're uberfast - but in most deadspace missions this'l put you in range of far too many npcs and is way more dangerous than simply sniping them off
Lienzo Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.19 14:53:00 - [35] Nanos + AB on snipe ship is pretty efficient. Heavy classes gain more from nanofibers than smaller classes do. The real trouble with SOLO close range complex action are the mobs which might run away. That's why they aren't supposed to be solo content though. Assault Missile Launcher Improvement
Pakalolo Tha Shiznit	Posted - 2006.07.19 15:57:00 - [36] what about the deadspace gates that drop you right on top of the rats (<10km)? Plenty of those, too. What sucks for me is those missions with huge distances between the gates, but that's off topic.
Tovarishch Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 16:21:00 - [37] Edited by: Tovarishch on 19/07/2006 16:24:32 Congratulations. In one fell swoop you have managed to discover what nearly every player who spends time on these forums complaining about 'Ravens' or 'missiles' has not - Missiles make Deadspace missions magnitudes more convenient. Deadspaces (and missions in general) are not terribly well balanced across weapon types. The problem isn't with weapons being imbalanced or 'better' than one another. The problem is that many missions (and Deadspaces specifically) create optimal weapon layouts. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Lord WarATron Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.19 16:23:00 - [38] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/07/2006 16:23:39 Short range weapons work. The fastest way to do lvl4's solo is with a smartbomb/megapulse apoc EDIT: Faction Smartbombs that is, the t2 smartbombs and named smartbombs are useless! --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE


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