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Petrus Illyusanov
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.19 12:16:00 -
[1]
In this I am going to use rail guns as an example because they are the ones I am most familier with, what I am saying though should be applied to all turret types and all sizes of turrets.
There is a something I noticed when fitting out my first cruiser and in my first battle with that ship.
I had mounted 2 dual 150 mm rail guns thinking these would function as Dual Purpose weapons (effective against both frigates and other cruisers) but I was quickly disabused of that in my first major fight when they simply could not track well enough.
Ok so I started looking at this a bit more carefully and did some math on the damage and so forth and found that the Dual 150mm rail is not significantly improved over the 150mm rail mounted on a frigate. The damage against a frigate sized target by both guns is infact substantially favors the 150mm and the damage against a cruiser sized target is only slightly better for the dual 150mm. So you are better off mounting a 150mm rail then the Dual 150mm rail, which seems not quite reasonable.
Ok, now looking at the medium rails you have the dual 150mm, the 200mm and the 250mm. The dual 150mm seems to be intended to be a dual purpose gun (something it fails at), the other two are just variants of a true anti-cruiser gun. So looking at the numbers for each of the weapons I tried to come up with an easy to implement change that would make the dual 150mm and the 200mm slightly more attractive to mount and give a bit of tactical variation in the process.
What I think does the trick is to change the Signature Resolution of the guns so that the Dual 150mm has a SR of 65 m, the 200mm has 95 m, and the 250mm has 125 m. This makes the smaller guns better for engaging smaller targets, while keeping the 250mm gun as the best anti-cruiser weapon.
I would also be tempted to say that a slight increase in tracking for the Dual guns would make sense but this really is something that needs play testing.
So my suggestion would be to look at the guns for all three size catagories and all three sizes in that catagory and assign them different Signature Resolutions.
The largest gun would get the standard signature resolution (125 m in the case of medium sized weapons), the smallest gun would get half that (65 m in tha case of medium sized weapones) and the intermediate gun would split the difference (95 m in the case of medium sized weapons).
For small weapons you would have 20 m, 30 m and 40 m.
I suspect this needs looking at from the pov of exploitation but it strikes me as a simple change that will make the weapon (in this case the dual x gun) do the job it seems to have been intended for without any obvious unbalancing going on.
Again although I am using rails as an example this should apply to all turret weapons.
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.19 12:30:00 -
[2]
Slash the "dual" gun sig resoloution in half, imo. The others weapons are not unbalanced and don't need tweaking, while the dual weapons are somewhat weak.
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Sonlatur
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 12:35:00 -
[3]
Fit a web and frigates are done for.
Without a web you'll probably do better with frigate sized weapons, but i think thats alright: Medium sized guns are designed to shoot at cruiser-sized targets.
"Dual" guns should not be for dual use - they are just the fastest tracking cruiser guns.
Frigates are much weaker then cruisers anyways, a short-range cruiser with a web will shred any frigate that dares to come into webbing range.
It is unnecessary to give cruisers more of a bonus against frigs.
The destroyer or some of the T2 frigs are anti-frig platforms, cruisers arent. Still, they do very well.
(and arent railguns long range weaponry? try blasters, they should have better tracking. btw, i can hit frigs very well with medium artillery - provided of course the frigs are far away - but thats just the nature of long range guns.)
--
"Greetings fellow pod pilot. I am Sonlatur of the Sebiestor tribe and you have become a target in my war against the Evil Amarr Empire. Ransom negotiations are possible." |
Petrus Illyusanov
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.19 12:58:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Sonlatur
Medium sized guns are designed to shoot at cruiser-sized targets.
"Dual" guns should not be for dual use - they are just the fastest tracking cruiser guns.
I am not inclined to agree with you on what a Dual x gun is for. I had a web infact in the battle I mentioned, my feeling on a web is it is just wonderful but I find I rarely use it since I seldom had targets that close to me. I tend to not fit it very often for that reason.
Quote:
It is unnecessary to give cruisers more of a bonus against frigs.
To me it is a bit absurd when a single 150mm does MORE damage then a dual 150mm against the same target and not by a small amount either. This does not give cruisers a bonus against frigates it makes a gun type which I doubt gets mounted often a bit more attractive.
Quote:
The destroyer or some of the T2 frigs are anti-frig platforms, cruisers arent. Still, they do very well.
Yes a DD is the perfered antifrigate platform.
Quote:
(and arent railguns long range weaponry? try blasters, they should have better tracking. btw, i can hit frigs very well with medium artillery - provided of course the frigs are far away - but thats just the nature of long range guns.)
I was using railguns as an example because I know railguns. I can hit frigates just fine with medium rail guns at range, when they are inside that range I switch over to other weapons I carry for purpose of frigate swatting at close range.
The exact arguement I am making applies to the the dual 250mm railgun for battleships, it also applies to 75mm gattling rail for frigates.
To be clear, I am using rails as an example, I am using medium rails as an example. This is not being requested just for medium rails, but for all turret mounted weapon types in any size catagory.
My personal opinion is that the dual x turrets need it the most however. The intermediate size gun probably doesn't benifit to any great extent but it might be a point more in its favor.
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Drilla
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.19 16:58:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Drilla on 19/07/2006 16:58:24
Dual 150mm guns should have half the RoF of normal 150mm and same damage mod. Keep the tracking, sig stats etc. of the 150mm.
Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost! |
Sonlatur
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 17:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Drilla
Dual 150mm guns should have half the RoF of normal 150mm and same damage mod. Keep the tracking, sig stats etc. of the 150mm.
Why would anyone use destroyers then?
Cruisers would be the perfect frigate killer.
Additionally, a gun like this would do as much or more damage as a (real) cruiser sized gun with far superior tracking and sig.
--
"Greetings fellow pod pilot. I am Sonlatur of the Sebiestor tribe and you have become a target in my war against the Evil Amarr Empire. Ransom negotiations are possible." |
Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.07.19 19:09:00 -
[7]
I'd like to see dual 150mm guns use small hybrid charges, too. I always wondered how the same charge could fit a 75mm, 125mm and 150mm railgun, yet you need a much larger charge to fit into a dual-barrel 150mm railgun. It's even sillier for projectile turrets.
Also, the dual 150mm should have a crappier tracking speed, because it's a larger turret, but it should have the same signal resolution and damage that the 150mm has. It's the same gun, just two of them strapped together into a bigger, clumsier turret.
But you're right, that would have a negative impact on the destroyer's role.
Destroyers suck so much. They're wedged into a niche that doesn't really exist, and they shove cruisers in one direction and assault frigates in the other. If we could just get rid of the dang destroyers, we could give AFs more DPS, so they wouldn't get steamrolled by interceptors, and we could give cruisers better anti-frig weaponry, and the whole dynamic would be better.
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.19 22:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/07/2006 22:44:02
AF's don't get "steamrollered by Inties", unless you go on cowboy 1v1 duels. 2v2, crispy fried inty.
Realistically, a small change to make dual weapons useful would be helpful, but it's not worth code time for things like a medium weapon using small charges.
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Drilla
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.21 17:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sonlatur
Originally by: Drilla
Dual 150mm guns should have half the RoF of normal 150mm and same damage mod. Keep the tracking, sig stats etc. of the 150mm.
Why would anyone use destroyers then?
Cruisers would be the perfect frigate killer.
Additionally, a gun like this would do as much or more damage as a (real) cruiser sized gun with far superior tracking and sig.
Ofc I forgot to mention that it should use small ammo.
Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost! |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.21 18:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Drilla
Originally by: Sonlatur
Originally by: Drilla
Dual 150mm guns should have half the RoF of normal 150mm and same damage mod. Keep the tracking, sig stats etc. of the 150mm.
Why would anyone use destroyers then?
Cruisers would be the perfect frigate killer.
Additionally, a gun like this would do as much or more damage as a (real) cruiser sized gun with far superior tracking and sig.
Ofc I forgot to mention that it should use small ammo.
Doesn't make a difference.
A 250mm is lucky to do 2x the damage of a 150mm. So if you have a 150mm that fires twice as fast, and has the sig radius of a 150mm, it'll mean you could pop fleets of frigates just by putting one gun on each.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles- |
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