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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1087
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Posted - 2014.08.18 02:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
I had to read the Reddit post a couple of times before I understood how the scheme worked. Pretty clever, Somer... 
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Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1087
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Posted - 2014.08.18 02:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bruce the Baker wrote:the crux being under the current business model ccp are empowering an external entity to prosper legally enabling actual in game currency conversion to real life currency while telling the rest of the community that is against the eula
As always, the devil is in the details. This is not cut-and-dried RMT. (Give me $20, I trade you 1b isk in-game). It is indirect and obfuscated. Is there anything stopping others from using this same scheme? Amazon sells plexes. All they need to do is implement a buy-back program, and they'd be doing the same thing as Somer.
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Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1087
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Posted - 2014.08.18 02:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:What it's going to come down to is whether you or I could set up the exact same scheme and do it too. If so then prepare for RMT to become commonplace. If not then CCP need to enforce it across the board.
Actually, this would be extremely interesting. Probably not feasible for many would-be isk farmers to incur the overhead necessary for something like this. But just for kicks, imagine a 3rd party website dedicated to showing you which 3rd party will buy back your PLEX for the most ISK.
It'd be like Jita station trading IRL. isk-ception.
EDIT:
If there were enough people doing this, the competition between 3rd parties would heat up and the margins would get whittled down pretty quickly. 
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Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1087
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Posted - 2014.08.18 05:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:As always, the devil is in the details. This is not cut-and-dried RMT. (Give me $20, I trade you 1b isk in-game). It is indirect and obfuscated. Is there anything stopping others from using this same scheme? Amazon sells plexes. All they need to do is implement a buy-back program, and they'd be doing the same thing as Somer. Carm, I think it's pretty cut and dried. Quote:19.4 Dollars per 1 Billion ISK I don't know how much more of a blatant EULA violation we can get here.. GOB the Magician wrote:too big to fail! This is exactly it. CCP's policy on RMT is business driven (essentially like all EULA policies). If Somer's visibility is bringing cash to CCP's table, this would be a reason why an exception is made. There are "haves" and "have-nots" in EVE, just like with anything else.
Sib, I think the anti-RMT crusaders are being a bit sensationalistic by throwing out exchange rates like $19 per 1B. I'll admit I'm playing devil's advocate here. I don't personally know enough about the issue to take a stance on it. I'm certainly not qualified to argue the effect RMT has on the game on a macro scale.
However, I do personally see a difference between earning affiliate dollars by incentivizing your visitors to buy products using your referral links and selling 1b ISK on eBay for $20.
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Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1090
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Posted - 2014.08.18 06:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Sib, I think the anti-RMT crusaders are being a bit sensationalistic by throwing out exchange rates like $19 per 1B. I'll admit I'm playing devil's advocate here. I don't personally know enough about the issue to take a stance on it. I'm certainly not qualified to argue the effect RMT has on the game on a macro scale.
However, I do personally see a difference between earning affiliate dollars by incentivizing your visitors to buy products using your referral links and selling 1b ISK on eBay for $20. Hi Carm, The math is included in the Reddit link and the poster mentions that their estimate is conservative ($0.875 per PLEX referral). Do you think this is an exaggerated amount? You're saying you "see a difference", but can you tell me what the difference is exactly? Somer is paying 45m ISK and he gets $0.875 as a result. Scale that to 1b ISK and he's getting $19. What exactly is the difference between Somer's RMT, and the RMT some sap who gets banned is doing? I see no fundamental difference, except that Somer's volume may be considered a nice windfall for CCP's PLEX sales.
The difference is that one way you sell ISK for RM. The other way you use ISK to get RM. It may seem like a petty/trivial distinction but it woudn't be the first time the "how" matters just as much if not more than the end result.
EDIT:
To be more clear (or maybe just more verbose). Somer is earning money like many other for-profit websites. Ads and/or affiliate/referral links. That is legitimately earned RM. How they incentivize people to click those links is a separate matter (or at least I think that's a reasonable way to look at it)
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Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1091
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Posted - 2014.08.18 07:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:So I can incentivize someone to PayPal me $19 by sending them 1b ISK in game?
That would be against the EULA. Setting up affiliate links and then incentivizing someone to click on that link by sending them ISK may be a different story. Apparently, CCP seems to think it's ok. (Of course, it will be interesting to see where things stand after the dust settles.)
Sibyyl wrote:I think what Carm is saying is:
When somebody pays ISK and gets RL money in return, this is RL money being taken away from CCP (since it would otherwise be used to purchase PLEX
When Somer pays ISK and gets RL money in return, this RL money is a sanctioned way to earn a percentage of a PLEX sale. In effect, the alleged RMTer (Somer, in this case) has "rendered unto Caesar" in the form of a referral contract
That's certainly more than I meant to imply, but your reasoning sounds good to me.
I think people on these forums see people using ISK in an indirect way to earn RM and declare it RMT. I've always been of the mindset that how you get from point A to point B is also important. Many of us are engaged in the process of making real money IRL. I'm sure that if I earned my RL income from an EVE site there'd be a million and one ways to make accusations of RMT since ISK is such an integral part of EVE. Again, a lot of this is just playing devils advocate. Sorry if I'm giving anyone a headache.
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Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1092
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Posted - 2014.08.18 15:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Before this thread I didn't feel like I really had an opinion on RMT. But now I'm starting to think maybe I'm a big fan.
Now that that's out of the way, can someone kindly explain to me why it's so awful?
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Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1092
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Posted - 2014.08.18 15:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
I appreciate all the genuine replies to my inquiry regarding why RMT is not good for the game.
You've turned me into a believer
+1
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Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1099
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Posted - 2014.08.18 20:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, I'm just dropping a blue barred post in this thread, so that you know that we're not ignoring you. I'm speaking with people internally to find out what's up with this, and myself and CCP Leeloo have already sat down this morning with the CSM for a preliminary meeting about what's gone on here. I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers. Sorry for the silence thus far, but I was only made aware of this late last night. I'll have more for you guys once I'm up to speed  - F Was community consulted about this at all ahead of time?
He said he was just made aware of it late last night. What exactly did you expect to be consulted on?
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