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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
28
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you use it.
You're a disgrace to pvp.
You're a disgrace to gaming in general.
And you should be ashamed of yourself.
That is all. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari Armed Forces.
803
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
WHAT DID YOU LOSE? |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
473
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
https://zkillboard.com/kill/40752501/
A badly fitted Incursus.
Topkek.
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
766
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
it's 2014 and there's still no ecm fixes/removal planned |
Anslo
Scope Works
7089
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
There is no need to be upset friend.
|
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
473
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:it's 2014 and there's still no ecm fixes/removal planned
I mean its a deeply **** mechanic thats really dull.
But still lol. |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
28
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/40752501/
A badly fitted Incursus.
Topkek.
Against ecm anythings pretty much a bad fit, but try harder |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
474
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Believe me I'm not trying at all. |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
28
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
I beg to differ, next! |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
474
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:I beg to differ, next!
I went to the back of the queue and started again.
So its me. |
|
Anslo
Scope Works
7091
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Again, why so upset, friend? It is only a frigate.
|
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari Armed Forces.
804
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/40752501/
A badly fitted Incursus.
Topkek.
Against ecm anythings pretty much a bad fit, but try harder
anyway it was 1 vs 2 so why should you even win that? (assuming that all players know how to play) |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
64
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
ewar ftw \o/ EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics -á
|
Paranoid Loyd
1478
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Just bought a griffin, see you soon "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
727
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:If you use it.
You're a disgrace to pvp.
You're a disgrace to gaming in general.
And you should be ashamed of yourself.
That is all.
Amen. |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
28
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Verlyn wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/40752501/
A badly fitted Incursus.
Topkek.
Against ecm anythings pretty much a bad fit, but try harder anyway it was 1 vs 2 so why should you even win that? (assuming that all players know how to play)
It was late, logged off midfight as soon as I saw him use ecm. Couldn't be bothered.
His buddy mustve warped in later on.
As for the fit, I've tanked and killed comets and hookbills in brawls easily enough with it. For as long as... no ecms are involved,
It's actually quite good, but takes good rl reaction skills to use properly, and not something good old Danny here understands very well.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=22639269
plate ion incrusus... *facepalm* |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari Armed Forces.
805
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Verlyn wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/40752501/
A badly fitted Incursus.
Topkek.
Against ecm anythings pretty much a bad fit, but try harder anyway it was 1 vs 2 so why should you even win that? (assuming that all players know how to play) It was late, logged off midfight as soon as I saw him use ecm. Couldn't be bothered. His buddy mustve warped in later on. As for the fit, I've tanked and killed comets and hookbills in brawls easily enough with it. For as long as... no ecms are involved, It's actually quite good, but takes good rl reaction skills to use properly, and not something good old Danny here understands very well.
fast checking trough different killboard stats tell that ecm pilot usually fleet with that guy, so if you make basic checks and compare local, you will find out that your outcome will be much likely. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
766
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
so a nice counter to ecm is just to never engage anything |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
28
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Verlyn wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Verlyn wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/40752501/
A badly fitted Incursus.
Topkek.
Against ecm anythings pretty much a bad fit, but try harder anyway it was 1 vs 2 so why should you even win that? (assuming that all players know how to play) It was late, logged off midfight as soon as I saw him use ecm. Couldn't be bothered. His buddy mustve warped in later on. As for the fit, I've tanked and killed comets and hookbills in brawls easily enough with it. For as long as... no ecms are involved, It's actually quite good, but takes good rl reaction skills to use properly, and not something good old Danny here understands very well. fast checking trough different killboard stats tell that ecm pilot usually fleet with that guy, so if you make basic checks and compare local, you will find out that your outcome will be much likely.
fast checking this thread's title might tell you a different thing about what to talk about inside it. |
Moglarr
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Why would you take a fight against a Griffin if you hate ECM so much? Or if you loath ECM why not stack your pod and ship with ECCM? Or bring a friend or two along to blap the ECM boat? Or even bring an ECM or ewar boat of your own? I think you're more just mad because you were beat. I get it, I hate to lose too. |
|
Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
180
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
I have a support alt and ecm isn't my favourite ewar.
Anyway, some people use ewar ships, some people use cynos to jump and fight 20 vs 1. Every tactic is legit. |
Deerin
Federal Navy Special Forces
276
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Oh tears.....and they won't stop!!!!
This thread won't be complete without quoting Fatal:
"Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair.' Jam them first. Kill them last." -Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen |
Artuard Envien
Rent Is DUE TODAY The North is Coming
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Deerin wrote:Oh tears.....and they won't stop!!!!
This thread won't be complete without quoting Fatal:
"Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair.' Jam them first. Kill them last." -Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen
Love that quote man haha :-D
ECM is a valid and lovely tactic. Working as intended. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2451
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:so a nice counter to ecm is just to never engage anything And a spur set, and an eccm, and friends, and long range sniper boats, and friend or foe missiles, and damps or neuts, drones, speed in general, remote eccm, and boats with higher sensor strength.
Other than that... yeah just don't fight them. |
May Arethusa
PillowBrigade Inc Heiian Conglomerate
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:WHAT DID YOU LOSE?
The ability to lock targets.
Waiting for a thread entitled "Damps" and "TDs" when they come across those too. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
767
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:so a nice counter to ecm is just to never engage anything And a spur set, and an eccm, and friends, and long range sniper boats, and friend or foe missiles, and damps or neuts, drones, speed in general, remote eccm, and boats with higher sensor strength. Other than that... yeah just don't fight them.
the drones don't work, and the FOF missiles only work on idiots. I do have the spur set though. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
367
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote: . . only work on idiots. .
Well then you're good to go in this game
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, please give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
493
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
If people didn't bother to look at the Incursus lossmail, go look at it. |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
28
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:If people didn't bother to look at the Incursus lossmail, go look at it.
I'd encourage trying the fit before opening your foul mouths though.
and brushing your teeth also. |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
133
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Copy and paste from another tear ECM forum to this one: here my opinion of ECM
I love ECM personally, Ive been perma jammed a few times myself, but i've also used it to great effect to save assets or turn a fight. Drop 4 falcons in and it really gives you some wiggle room with what you can do against a much larger gang, even kitsunes can do it and their cheaper, they just don't warp cloaked or take a Black Ops Bridge.
What most people don't realize is ECM is balanced quite well, here's why:
1. Sensor compensation skills - these reduce the effectiveness of enemy ECM aside from long range targeting or nav skills to counter damps or webs ( and these werent even desinged as direct counters but secondary counters ) this is the ONLY skill that reduces the effectivness of enemy ewar. THere are no "Protection from Nuets" or "protection from webs" skills
2. ECCM - Much like cap batterys or sensor boosters these help you overcome ECM like battery's help against nuets and Sebo's help against damps. Providing yet another layer of protection from ECM
3. ECM is the ONLY Chance based EWAR in the game, every other form of ewar works if your range 100% of the time ( but may lose some effect ) while ECM has a chance to jam, ive lsot probably a dozen falcons because i missed jams and was tackled or missed jams on a tornado and got alpha'd. It happens more often than you think.
4. ECM was nerfed a few months back reducing total strength of jams when not overheated, the result is now ALL Jam boats have to overheat to get the same strength as before, thus risking a burnout and loss of jams.
5. ECM only works on Bonused ships to any effect - Ever used a multispec on a Golem or on a Exequoror? Its not that great, same with ECM bursts on a typhoon and so on, sure your bound to get some lucky jams but without bonuses to their optimal, strength, or cap use its a horribly ineffective technique. Unlike all the other forms of ewar which still work just fine on their own. Hence why the meta is nuets on PVP ships and everyone runs with a web.
Now sure people will still complain when they get jammed, but at the end of the day its all fine where it is. Imagine if every form of Ewar had a chance to work, a chance your nuet burns cap and does nothing to the target, a chance your web suddenly wont slow a ship down and an expensive ship escapes or you lose an expensive ship because of it. There would be a general outcry to fix that if it were implemented.
You dont see very many falcon pilots asking for guarenteed jams every cycle if your in range, so why can't people settle for the current state of them when they really are fine as is.
Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
|
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
290
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Shooting a jammed target is directly comparable to mining. The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts. |
Aves Enderas
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:THere are no "Protection from Nuets" or "protection from webs" skills
Now sure people will still complain when they get jammed, but at the end of the day its all fine where it is. Imagine if every form of Ewar had a chance to work, a chance your nuet burns cap and does nothing to the target, a chance your web suddenly wont slow a ship down and an expensive ship escapes or you lose an expensive ship because of it. There would be a general outcry to fix that if it were implemented.
You dont see very many falcon pilots asking for guarenteed [sic] jams every cycle if your [sic] in range, so why can't people settle for the current state of them when they really are fine as is.
The difference being, of course, that webs/neuts don't completely disable your ship like ECM. They only disable one aspect of your ship. Also, having to fit ECCM into a mid/low slot is a waste of a slot. Unlike the "counters" to nueting, which involve cap boosters which are at least a boon to all your other mods by virtue of having cap to use them. In addition, ECCM is also wasted should ECM never appear on field. In contrast, cap boosters still provide some effect by injecting cap even if no nuets are present.
QCATS is recruiting
http://www.repeat0ffenders.com/content.jsf;jsessionid=iwPhJXI31titATjMHUQgIIB-.undefined?contentId=qcats_recruitment |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1851
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:Copy and paste from another tear ECM forum to this one: here my opinion of ECM
I love ECM personally, Ive been perma jammed a few times myself, but i've also used it to great effect to save assets or turn a fight. Drop 4 falcons in and it really gives you some wiggle room with what you can do against a much larger gang, even kitsunes can do it and their cheaper, they just don't warp cloaked or take a Black Ops Bridge.
What most people don't realize is ECM is balanced quite well, here's why:
1. Sensor compensation skills - these reduce the effectiveness of enemy ECM aside from long range targeting or nav skills to counter damps or webs ( and these werent even desinged as direct counters but secondary counters ) this is the ONLY skill that reduces the effectivness of enemy ewar. THere are no "Protection from Nuets" or "protection from webs" skills
2. ECCM - Much like cap batterys or sensor boosters these help you overcome ECM like battery's help against nuets and Sebo's help against damps. Providing yet another layer of protection from ECM
3. ECM is the ONLY Chance based EWAR in the game, every other form of ewar works if your range 100% of the time ( but may lose some effect ) while ECM has a chance to jam, ive lsot probably a dozen falcons because i missed jams and was tackled or missed jams on a tornado and got alpha'd. It happens more often than you think.
4. ECM was nerfed a few months back reducing total strength of jams when not overheated, the result is now ALL Jam boats have to overheat to get the same strength as before, thus risking a burnout and loss of jams.
5. ECM only works on Bonused ships to any effect - Ever used a multispec on a Golem or on a Exequoror? Its not that great, same with ECM bursts on a typhoon and so on, sure your bound to get some lucky jams but without bonuses to their optimal, strength, or cap use its a horribly ineffective technique. Unlike all the other forms of ewar which still work just fine on their own. Hence why the meta is nuets on PVP ships and everyone runs with a web.
Now sure people will still complain when they get jammed, but at the end of the day its all fine where it is. Imagine if every form of Ewar had a chance to work, a chance your nuet burns cap and does nothing to the target, a chance your web suddenly wont slow a ship down and an expensive ship escapes or you lose an expensive ship because of it. There would be a general outcry to fix that if it were implemented.
You dont see very many falcon pilots asking for guarenteed jams every cycle if your in range, so why can't people settle for the current state of them when they really are fine as is.
^^ this +1
I'll add that ECCM provides a huge bonus (around +100%), unlike other EWAR counters.
And that point 5 (bonused ships) helps a lot in the metagame (especially for solo work): as soon as you spot an ECM hull on dscan, you know exactly what it's going to do. Conversely, if no ECM hulls are present, you can be pretty much sure nobody will jam you. Can't say the same for neuts, damps, tds, webs, etc. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
136
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Aves Enderas wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:THere are no "Protection from Nuets" or "protection from webs" skills
Now sure people will still complain when they get jammed, but at the end of the day its all fine where it is. Imagine if every form of Ewar had a chance to work, a chance your nuet burns cap and does nothing to the target, a chance your web suddenly wont slow a ship down and an expensive ship escapes or you lose an expensive ship because of it. There would be a general outcry to fix that if it were implemented.
You dont see very many falcon pilots asking for guarenteed [sic] jams every cycle if your [sic] in range, so why can't people settle for the current state of them when they really are fine as is.
The difference being, of course, that webs/neuts don't completely disable your ship like ECM. They only disable one aspect of your ship. Also, having to fit ECCM into a mid/low slot is a waste of a slot. Unlike the "counters" to nueting, which involve cap boosters which are at least a boon to all your other mods by virtue of having cap to use them. In addition, ECCM is also wasted should ECM never appear on field. In contrast, cap boosters still provide some effect by injecting cap even if no nuets are present.
Nuets can completely disable certain ships actually, if your perma nueted in a balster or laser boat your lucky to keep your tank running long enough to catch reps some times. And all too often cap boosters fail to keep up or run out of charges resulting in dead ships. Unlike ECM however which cannot jam smartbombs, FOF Missiles, or certain ships which can still be neuted.
Webs have no chance of disabling your ship of course but they do in essence shut down your ability to kite or keep range.
Also with the advent of mobile refit abilities theres no reason not to keep ECCM in cargo just in case you run into a jam ship or two. I travel with an extra rack of it all the time just in case even though i use ECM liberally i still prepare for the outcome of possibly running into more ECM than i have the ability to handle. Even if i give up my web to avoid being jammed it still gives me the ability to fight back more effectively than i would have trying to wait the cycle out and get another web on someone. Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Moglarr
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 19:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Aves Enderas wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:THere are no "Protection from Nuets" or "protection from webs" skills
Now sure people will still complain when they get jammed, but at the end of the day its all fine where it is. Imagine if every form of Ewar had a chance to work, a chance your nuet burns cap and does nothing to the target, a chance your web suddenly wont slow a ship down and an expensive ship escapes or you lose an expensive ship because of it. There would be a general outcry to fix that if it were implemented.
You dont see very many falcon pilots asking for guarenteed [sic] jams every cycle if your [sic] in range, so why can't people settle for the current state of them when they really are fine as is.
The difference being, of course, that webs/neuts don't completely disable your ship like ECM. They only disable one aspect of your ship. Also, having to fit ECCM into a mid/low slot is a waste of a slot. Unlike the "counters" to nueting, which involve cap boosters which are at least a boon to all your other mods by virtue of having cap to use them. In addition, ECCM is also wasted should ECM never appear on field. In contrast, cap boosters still provide some effect by injecting cap even if no nuets are present.
Unless your fit doesn't require a cap booster, which I don't think is too hard to imagine. In that case the cap boosted is just as much a "wasted slot" of you never run into a neut boat.
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2452
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aves Enderas wrote:The difference being, of course, that webs/neuts don't completely disable your ship like ECM. T
ECM doesn't affect movement, nor scanning, nor self repping, nor launching drones or F.O.F missiles - among other things...
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
767
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
but it is retardedly broken |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
368
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
The difference with other ewar though is you can still fight back. You are not stuck watching the **** screen for 20 seconds (a long time in pvp, and possible even with jerking off) as you are with ecm.
If neuted, keep shooting (if capless weapons), or send drones. Besides, typically it takes more than one cycle to be neuted dry, so try to get out of range, broadcast for cap, whatever, you still have options.
If webbed, keep shooting, send or assign drones . . .
If damped, fly closer to the damp ship or to another target. Damps don't damp you to zero. Or wait a little longer to lock if scan res damped. Lock someone close to you and remote buff them if you have such modules. You still have active options.
TD's affect is similar to damps. So the same piloting counters can apply. Watch angular motion, get closer to target ~
If painted, laugh maybe. It's usually not that serious.
But, if jammed, you can't take any actions as a player to mitigate the effect. You have to wait the full cycle and hope the successive cycle does not land. You may have FoF or your drones may have already been out, not targeted on anything else, and on aggressive. But really you have no way to direct those weapons.
It is the lack of any effective player directed counter or otherwise helpful to your buddies actions that makes ECM the horrible game mechanic it currently is.
That being said, the introduction of the sensor integrity skills and the successive ecm nerfs have helped reduce ecm to slightly tolerable. It would still be nice to not have so much of combat dependent on acquiring a lock. Or to have ecm be some other mechanic in the game, that would allow contemporaneous player directed actions either to counter or still be able to do something useful in the fight. CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, please give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals. |
Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite CODE.
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:If you use it.
You're a disgrace to pvp.
You're a disgrace to gaming in general.
And you should be ashamed of yourself.
That is all.
"Wouldn't it be fun if all fights consisted of both parties hitting 'keep at xxx' and pressing f1?" Together we can make Highsec a better place! The Law of Highsec Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, live it! |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
767
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 20:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
just get closer to the 8km/s hookbill? I didn't think of that |
|
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari Armed Forces.
807
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 21:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:so a nice counter to ecm is just to never engage anything
if you know enemy has ecm you should fight it with right setup, not with ship that needs webs to work. |
Talas Dir
Super Happy Fun Corp
47
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 21:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
"THERE ARE THOSE WHO THINK USING ECM IS "DISHONOURABLE". JAM THEM FIRST, AND KILL THEM LAST."
J-IRAI "FATAL": LAITANEN |
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
635
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 00:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
2012 called and wants its tears back. http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/ |
Sollis Vynneve
C.Q.B
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
So you are butt hurt then. Its a shame I didn't have my scanner alt around when you rage logged would have liked to have killed your pod too. btw your tears fuel our jams. |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
487
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sollis Vynneve wrote:So you are butt hurt then. Its a shame I didn't have my scanner alt around when you rage logged would have liked to have killed your pod too. btw your tears fuel our jams.
Not going to lie, despite the absolutely golden tears this incident has produced.
Using a Griffin alt does make you a skill-less ganking tryhard.
But still, epic tears. |
Sollis Vynneve
C.Q.B
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 08:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Sollis Vynneve wrote:So you are butt hurt then. Its a shame I didn't have my scanner alt around when you rage logged would have liked to have killed your pod too. btw your tears fuel our jams. Not going to lie, despite the absolutely golden tears this incident has produced. Using a Griffin alt does make you a skill-less ganking tryhard. But still, epic tears.
Alt? No alt . But ecm evens the field whens I'm out and get a small 7 man frig fleet try to **** my ship. Lets just call it it an anti blob tactic we have used to great effect taking on a 15 man fleet with 1 griffin and 4 dps ship really doesn't make us skill less. Lol |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
487
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 09:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
Real men don't need Griffins to separate dummies. |
Maekchu
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
What is this ECM you speak of? |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
Yea
|
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 10:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sollis Vynneve wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Sollis Vynneve wrote:So you are butt hurt then. Its a shame I didn't have my scanner alt around when you rage logged would have liked to have killed your pod too. btw your tears fuel our jams. Not going to lie, despite the absolutely golden tears this incident has produced. Using a Griffin alt does make you a skill-less ganking tryhard. But still, epic tears. Alt? No alt . But ecm evens the field whens I'm out and get a small 7 man frig fleet try to **** my ship. Lets just call it it an anti blob tactic we have used to great effect taking on a 15 man fleet with 1 griffin and 4 dps ship really doesn't make us skill less. Lol
Yea, next time try flying alone, and do try to resist the urge to fly tristans... |
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1857
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:Yea, next time try flying alone, and do try to resist the urge to fly tristans, you mean bully! FTFY Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 11:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Verlyn wrote:Yea, next time try flying alone, and do try to resist the urge to fly tristans, you mean bully! FTFY
Either you fail at reading comprehension, or you havent a clue. |
lord xavier
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
23
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:It was late, logged off midfight as soon as I saw him use ecm. Couldn't be bothered. His buddy mustve warped in later on. As for the fit, I've tanked and killed comets and hookbills in brawls easily enough with it. For as long as... no ecms are involved, It's actually quite good, but takes good rl reaction skills to use properly, and not something good old Danny here understands very well. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=22639269plate ion incrusus... *facepalm*
So, instead of waiting trying to peel off, or waiting for the griffin to miss a jam, because even at max EWAR skills I still miss jam cycles, even in a falcon/widow/Kitsune/Whatever else gives ECM Bonuses, you just gave up and said "Screw it. You can have my ball! I am going home to tell my mommy!"
That is just pathetic for someone that calls themselves a PVPer instead of just putting a note on them and adding them to watchlist as "ECM (disgruntled derogatory word of choice)"
|
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 12:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
lord xavier wrote:Verlyn wrote:It was late, logged off midfight as soon as I saw him use ecm. Couldn't be bothered. His buddy mustve warped in later on. As for the fit, I've tanked and killed comets and hookbills in brawls easily enough with it. For as long as... no ecms are involved, It's actually quite good, but takes good rl reaction skills to use properly, and not something good old Danny here understands very well. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=22639269plate ion incrusus... *facepalm* So, instead of waiting trying to peel off, or waiting for the griffin to miss a jam, because even at max EWAR skills I still miss jam cycles, even in a falcon/widow/Kitsune/Whatever else gives ECM Bonuses, you just gave up and said "Screw it. You can have my ball! I am going home to tell my mommy!" That is just pathetic for someone that calls themselves a PVPer instead of just putting a note on them and adding them to watchlist as "ECM (disgruntled derogatory word of choice)"
Yea, when i realised i traded a good time in bed for supressed online homosexuals, i didnt stop to think on it. You're right, shame on me.
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1858
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Verlyn wrote:Yea, next time try flying alone, and do try to resist the urge to fly tristans, you mean bully! FTFY Either you fail at reading comprehension, or you havent a clue. Or maybe I fly solo too, but without the whining. I'd find it hard to see my screen clearly if my eyes were so filled with tears. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
488
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
This thread really is going places.
Also don't make abuse out of peoples social choices in life. |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 13:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Verlyn wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Verlyn wrote:Yea, next time try flying alone, and do try to resist the urge to fly tristans, you mean bully! FTFY Either you fail at reading comprehension, or you havent a clue. Or maybe I fly solo too, but without the whining. I'd find it hard to see my screen clearly if my eyes were so filled with tears.
Kiters have nothing to whine about. |
CrAzY AnNiE
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
JAF Anders wrote:Shooting a jammed target is directly comparable to mining.
Seems legit if you're mining tears. |
Rezan Tepet
Partial Safety
25
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:34:00 -
[59] - Quote
JAF Anders wrote:Shooting a jammed target is directly comparable to mining. Ssh. CODE may hear you and start adding eWar ships to their list of targets. oaramos: |oh-WAR-uh-mohs| n. GÇö-áTerm given to early Caldarian wormhole explorers. From Rataani language; literally, "Wave-jumper."-á adj. GÇö-á[see: "moss" "mossy"] slangGÇö crazy, insane |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 16:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
CrAzY AnNiE wrote:JAF Anders wrote:Shooting a jammed target is directly comparable to mining. Seems legit if you're mining tears.
Well I could make it a vocation to focus on hunting and jamming jamming feggets all day as well, if it werent so ******* boring, and I was a fegget. |
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Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
Assuming your most recent loss is the situation that got you put out over e-warfare, perhaps drop that second repper and use one of these: Magnetometric Backup Array |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
142
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
wake up come to this thread top off the empty tear jar load it into the falcon create more tear threads
If only we could figure out how to use tears as fuel for our cars, i wouldn't have to fill up again
Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:48:00 -
[63] - Quote
Regnag Leppod wrote:Assuming your most recent loss is the situation that got you put out over e-warfare, perhaps drop that second repper and use one of these: Magnetometric Backup Array
See the problem is, (if you cared to even wonder what the fit was for) i'd lose tank, and since I want to engage the bigger prey with this fit (comet, hookbill, firetail...), a one rep tank against them doesn't cut it.
So it's dual rep, dual web, 230dps, or it's pretty much toast against those ships in any standard blastercursus fits.
Thanks for trying to help though. |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:50:00 -
[64] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:wake up come to this thread top off the empty tear jar load it into the falcon create more tear threads If only we could figure out how to use tears as fuel for our cars, i wouldn't have to fill up again
*insert snarky comment here* |
Sollis Vynneve
C.Q.B
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:Regnag Leppod wrote:Assuming your most recent loss is the situation that got you put out over e-warfare, perhaps drop that second repper and use one of these: Magnetometric Backup Array See the problem is, (if you cared to even wonder what the fit was for) i'd lose tank, and since I want to engage the bigger prey with this fit (comet, hookbill, firetail...), a one rep tank against them doesn't cut it. So it's dual rep, dual web, 230dps, or it's pretty much toast against those ships in any standard blastercursus fits. Thanks for trying to help though.
Loren gallen didn't need 2 reppers on his incursus. Thanks for your tears it made using a griffin on you so worth while, next time I will get more griffins to come jam you for additional tears :D |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:02:00 -
[66] - Quote
Sollis Vynneve wrote:Verlyn wrote:Regnag Leppod wrote:Assuming your most recent loss is the situation that got you put out over e-warfare, perhaps drop that second repper and use one of these: Magnetometric Backup Array See the problem is, (if you cared to even wonder what the fit was for) i'd lose tank, and since I want to engage the bigger prey with this fit (comet, hookbill, firetail...), a one rep tank against them doesn't cut it. So it's dual rep, dual web, 230dps, or it's pretty much toast against those ships in any standard blastercursus fits. Thanks for trying to help though. Loren fallen didn't need 2 reppers on his incursus. Thanks for your tears it made using a griffin on you so worth while, next time I will get more griffins to come jam you for additional tears :D
In pure brawl ?
Ok... |
Sollis Vynneve
C.Q.B
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Dude its a game stop being so uptight **** happens, learn from it and go enjoy what eve has to offer. =ƒÿè |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
It's obviously more than a game if cheap tears is all you're after in your entire kill history, but anyway.
And yea, for Loren, hmm not seeing any comet or hookbill kills with his brawling incursus, care to point me to one ? |
Sollis Vynneve
C.Q.B
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
Keep checking. Final word who doesn't like tears and butthurt tears are the sweetest of all. Next time check your dscan properly or fix your overview. Your just tearful cos you derped and are trying to find an excuse for your complete noobish dscan abilities. Thankyou again for continuing to fuel this thread. |
Rezan Tepet
Partial Safety
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:45:00 -
[70] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:Regnag Leppod wrote:Assuming your most recent loss is the situation that got you put out over e-warfare, perhaps drop that second repper and use one of these: Magnetometric Backup Array See the problem is, (if you cared to even wonder what the fit was for) i'd lose tank, and since I want to engage the bigger prey with this fit (comet, hookbill, firetail...), a one rep tank against them doesn't cut it. So it's dual rep, dual web, 230dps, or it's pretty much toast against those ships in any standard blastercursus fits. Thanks for trying to help though.
So, I was kinda with you on this, but now it sounds like you want the Ultimate Omega Silver Best PvP Frigate Ever With No Hard Counters And No Need To Refit, Fueled By The Tears of Anyone Flying Anything Else.
And I'm just not down with that. So ECM it is. oaramos: |oh-WAR-uh-mohs| n. GÇö-áTerm given to early Caldarian wormhole explorers. From Rataani language; literally, "Wave-jumper."-á adj. GÇö-á[see: "moss" "mossy"] slangGÇö crazy, insane |
|
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:48:00 -
[71] - Quote
Go fuckyourselves. |
Sollis Vynneve
C.Q.B
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:51:00 -
[72] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:Go fuckyourselves.
Oh my how rude. Jars of tears filled = **** loads. Go find mummy and suckle to sooth yourself.=ƒÿè |
Gavreel Moksh
C.Q.B
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:00:00 -
[73] - Quote
I hate seeing grown men cry, ok not really. By the time I'd locked you it was clear you were dying anyway, I think because it was a griffin it gave you an excuse to not blame yourself or your fit. Now have the ability to take a step back cos seriously man this is getting cringe worthy. Oh and gf! Ok maybe not. |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
30
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
Again, go fuckyourselves. |
Rezan Tepet
Partial Safety
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:51:00 -
[75] - Quote
So...you're saying you're not interested in the Limited Edition Super Deathmaker Gold Best PvP Frigate Ever With No Hard or Soft Counters, Flown On the Butthurt of All Who Fly Not It?
...Just kidding. It's a pre-nerf Rifter with a permabug where anyone that shoots ECMs at it are met with firework animations. oaramos: |oh-WAR-uh-mohs| n. GÇö-áTerm given to early Caldarian wormhole explorers. From Rataani language; literally, "Wave-jumper."-á adj. GÇö-á[see: "moss" "mossy"] slangGÇö crazy, insane |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
30
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
I found that rather amusing, but still, go fuckyourself. |
Aliventi
C.Q.B
765
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
There is nothing wrong with ECM: A substantiation with numbers Version 1.0.3 10/21/13 By: Aliventi A work in progress. To be refined as more "ECM is OP/wrong/bad" threads pop up.
If you step back and take a look, ECM is arguably the least destructive of the EWAR varieties with the exception of TPs. A sensor dampener can lower a ship's targeting range to the point that it can't lock anything. Tracking disruptors lower the tracking on a ship to the point it can't actually hit anything. How frustrating is it that you can lock a target, but you can't track well enough to even hit it? Of course, TDs don't work against logistics, EWAR, or missile boats. That would make TDs less effective than ECM.
In other words, ECM, damps, and tracking disruption all have the potential to remove enemies from the fight. ECM and damps prevent you from locking, and TDs prevent your guns from doing anything effective. ECM is balanced in the way that it has a non-trivial chance of outright failing none of the other EWARs have. In fact SDs, TDs, and TPs never miss. ECM effects lasts 20 seconds whereas SD and TD effects last for as long as the module is activated.
Another balancing factor is that ECM is a mid-slot module in a race that is purely shield tanking. The other three races can fill their mids with EWAR and put together a reasonable armor tank. It is no mystery that this is why the CFC celestis fleets are so successful. They are combining never miss EWAR with a bonused ship that can tank long enough for logi to rep them. Caldari ships can put together a tissue paper armor tank at best.
One more reason ECM is less effective than the other types of EWARs is that to be effective in all situations a ECM ship needs to fit 4 specialized modules compared to the 1 generalized module that TDs, SDs and TPs enjoy. This means that tank is often sacrificed to reacha bare minimum of effectiveness.
"That is all fine and dandy," You say "but ECM is still too powerful". Why don't we take a look at some numbers?
Take a T2 Minmatar jammer. The ECM Phase Inverter II has a Ladar jam strength of 3.6. Jammer vs Rifter: 3.6/8 sensor strength = 45% chance of a jam or 55% chance of doing nothing. Jammer vs Stabber: 3.6/13 sensor strength = 27.69% chance of a jam or 72.31% chance of doing nothing. Jammer vs Hurricane: 3.6/16 sensor strength = 22.5% chance of a jam or 77.5% chance of doing nothing. Jammer vs Tempest: 3.6/20 sensor strength = 18% chance of a jam or 82% chance of doing nothing.
See? hardly anything wrong with ECM. Even against the most basic frigate it will fail more times than it will succeed. Imagine if your guns, hardeners, point, MWD, etc. had that fail rate. *shudder*
You see your issue is not truly with ECM. Your issue, is in fact, with the ECM bonused hulls. Take a Falcon with all level 5 skills fit with racial jammers, 2 Sensor Distortion Amps, and one ECM strength rig and let's look at those numbers again.
All level 5 Falcon vs. Sensor Comp. 5 ship: Jammer vs Rifter: 14.2/9.6 sensor strength = 100% chance of jamming Jammer vs Stabber: 14.2/15.6 sensor strength = 91.02% chance of jamming Jammer vs Hurricane: 14.2/19.2 sensor strength = 73.95% chance of jamming Jammer vs Tempest: 14.2/24 sensor strength = 59.16% chance of jamming
That really isn't OP at all. Considering the vast amount of training one has to accomplish to become a perfect Falcon pilot. In comparison the time it take to train a racial sensor comp to 5 or fit an ECCM module is trivial. In addition a Falcon has a tissue paper tank, a non-trivial chance of missing a jam, and unlike the other forms of EWAR it doesn't last forever.
Now you are likely to bring up a rather painful point in small gang and solo PvP: The ECM drone. Why don't we take a look at those?
EC-300 drone strength is 1. Jammer vs Rifter: 1/9.6 sensor strength = 10.41% chance of jamming Jammer vs Stabber: 1/15.6 sensor strength = 6.41% chance of jamming Jammer vs Hurricane: 1/19.2 sensor strength = 5.23% chance of jamming Jammer vs Tempest: 1/24 sensor strength = 4.16% chance of jamming
EC-600 drone strength is 1.5. Jammer vs Rifter: 1.5/9.6 sensor strength = 15.62% chance of jamming Jammer vs Stabber: 1.5/15.6 sensor strength = 9.61% chance of jamming Jammer vs Hurricane: 1.5/19.2 sensor strength = 7.81% chance of jamming Jammer vs Tempest: 1.5/24 sensor strength = 6.25% chance of jamming
Neither of those scream OP at all. "Now that isn't the real story" you exclaim "Most ships have 5!" True: (How to calculate: Link calculator: Link (P (X>=1)) is the important number)
5 EC-300 jam strength 1: vs Rifter: 42.28% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Stabber: 28.19% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Hurricane: 23.55% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Tempest: 21.02% chance of jamming with 5 drones. For 25m3 of drones these do seem a touch too powerful. I would recommend a reduction in jam strength down to .75.
5 EC-600 jam strength 1.5: vs Rifter: 57.22% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Stabber: 39.66% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Hurricane: 33.40% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Tempest: Or 27.58% chance of jamming with 5 drones. For 50m3 of drones these seem very well balanced for their size.
You see in the grand scheme of things ECM is neither OP, broken, wrong, out of place, or any of the other things people claim ECM is. It is merely a different and perfectly valid form of EWAR. It is high-risk high-reward, only truly effective on bonused hulls (as it should be) which at best can manage a tissue paper tank when fitting jams, and doesn't last forever like the other forms of EWAR. All things considered, it is perfectly in line with the other forms of EWAR. What's so wrong with that? |
Gavreel Moksh
C.Q.B
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:00:00 -
[78] - Quote
I'm feeling like such a bad girl right now. I think I may go back to high sec and gank some veldspar, do you think it would mind? |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
30
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:01:00 -
[79] - Quote
Getfucked |
Paranoid Loyd
1496
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:16:00 -
[80] - Quote
Wow, been a while since I've seen tears this glorious. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2455
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:42:00 -
[81] - Quote
at least add ship bonuses to your ECM strength numbers. |
Sollis Vynneve
C.Q.B
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
Seriously.lol sweet tears keep flowing. Is there anything else you would like to rage about maybe about how over powered tristans are or smartbombs or stabs, I know let make thread about nerfing ccp. You sir are nothing more than a moaning old lady, get a grip |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1862
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:All things considered, it is perfectly in line with the other forms of EWAR. What's so wrong with that? Great analysis!
But you forgot the additional, exclusive features of ECM:
. 10% chance of rage logoff . 5% chance of tear thread in W&T . 1% chance of rage quit (pending confirmation) Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1960
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:38:00 -
[84] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.
This thread gets a lock as well.
The Rules: 3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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