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De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2927
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Posted - 2014.08.22 18:53:00 -
[91] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote: I think I've about talked myself into giving this a go, for sheer curiosity more than anything else.
You have my guardian! De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2515
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Posted - 2014.08.26 10:59:00 -
[92] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote: I think I've about talked myself into giving this a go, for sheer curiosity more than anything else.
You have my guardian!
and my axe!
er, wait ...
confirming another guardian. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Thomas Mayaki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2014.08.27 12:22:00 -
[93] - Quote
You could always AFK white knight! Just setup two Ospreys each with two large/one medium repair with cap transfer and set them on orbit round the bump target. Fairly low skill requirements.
Just remember the advantage is always with the ganker as he dictates the engagement. If they don't destroy the intended target then they seriously need to change the fc. However dispite being proven to be spineless in 'fair' competition Loyalanon seems adequate for the job of fcing frieghter ganks. |
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
296
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Posted - 2014.08.27 13:01:00 -
[94] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote: Maybe if we abuse it enough CCP will actually fix it.
Yeah, that's what I've come to expect. I wish I could say differently.
The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts. |
Thomas Mayaki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:12:00 -
[95] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Bronson I would have way more respect for your legion of Guardian Angels than I do for the current White Knight crowd. A hoard of logi ships would be really annoying and would force Code to bring more dps ships than we would like.
Of course I might just show up and pick off logi ships one by one as they go suspect, cause that would be fun as hell. I'm sure it will take some time for your logic to sink into the brains of your audience as they are blinded by hatred, but maybe some of them will listen to your wisdom.
Funny you should suggest going suspect while repping as I have noticed that would have happened on a couple of freighters had I not set the safety to green. I suspect these freighters may have been intentionally engaged in a limited engagement in order to get unsuspecting logistic ships. |
Leto Thule
Fleet-Jump Surely You're Joking
1159
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:27:00 -
[96] - Quote
Thomas Mayaki wrote: However dispite being proven to be spineless in 'fair' competition Loyalanon seems adequate for the job of fcing frieghter ganks.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Loyal is a more than capable SOLO pilot, and has "#rekt" (god I feel dirty for the stupid hash tag) me in lowsec, when he was outmatched.
I am no god at pvp, but im not crap either. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
Ripard Teg sucks. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
969
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Posted - 2014.08.27 19:39:00 -
[97] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Thomas Mayaki wrote: However dispite being proven to be spineless in 'fair' competition Loyalanon seems adequate for the job of fcing frieghter ganks. You have no idea what you are talking about. Loyal is a more than capable SOLO pilot, and has "#rekt" (god I feel dirty for the stupid hash tag) me in lowsec, when he was outmatched. I am no god at pvp, but im not crap either. Loyal does like that "rekt" thing, but yeah, dig a bit deeper into his killboard. Hes actually pretty good at lowsec PVP. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite CODE.
101
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Posted - 2014.08.27 21:30:00 -
[98] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Thomas Mayaki wrote: However dispite being proven to be spineless in 'fair' competition Loyalanon seems adequate for the job of fcing frieghter ganks. You have no idea what you are talking about. Loyal is a more than capable SOLO pilot, and has "#rekt" (god I feel dirty for the stupid hash tag) me in lowsec, when he was outmatched. I am no god at pvp, but im not crap either. Loyal does like that "rekt" thing, but yeah, dig a bit deeper into his killboard. Hes actually pretty good at lowsec PVP.
We've been out in lowsec a lot lately and I feel like I can say with a certainty that ganking barges and freighters (efficiently) is so much harder that its laughable. So far in the ops I've participated in out in lowsec, I haven't lost a single ship because of good scouting and we have more or less insta blapped all the gangs we've bumped up against. All these guys saying we'll get wrecked in low either have no idea the coordination that efficient freighter ganking takes, or are simply awful at pvp and are used to getting wrecked by guys like us. My money's on both.
Oh, and don't even try to mention FW either. Been there, done that. Like blobbing around with 50-80 cheap merlins is a superior activity to anything, morally or skill-wise. Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com
Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,-á live it, breathe it! |
Thomas Mayaki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2014.08.28 09:58:00 -
[99] - Quote
Rabe Raptor wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Thomas Mayaki wrote: However dispite being proven to be spineless in 'fair' competition Loyalanon seems adequate for the job of fcing frieghter ganks. You have no idea what you are talking about. Loyal is a more than capable SOLO pilot, and has "#rekt" (god I feel dirty for the stupid hash tag) me in lowsec, when he was outmatched. I am no god at pvp, but im not crap either. Loyal does like that "rekt" thing, but yeah, dig a bit deeper into his killboard. Hes actually pretty good at lowsec PVP. We've been out in lowsec a lot lately and I feel like I can say with a certainty that ganking barges and freighters (efficiently) is so much harder that its laughable. So far in the ops I've participated in out in lowsec, I haven't lost a single ship because of good scouting and we have more or less insta blapped all the gangs we've bumped up against. All these guys saying we'll get wrecked in low either have no idea the coordination that efficient freighter ganking takes, or are simply awful at pvp and are used to getting wrecked by guys like us. My money's on both. Oh, and don't even try to mention FW either. Been there, done that. Like blobbing around with 50-80 cheap merlins is a superior activity to anything, morally or skill-wise.
I guess the New Order scouted their opposition in the AT and decided not to engage. (RvB)
The worst thing about trying to stop freighter ganks apart from the non-existant rewards is identifying the target and the unknown timing of the attack. Both of which is determined by the attacker so it should be impossible to stop a freighter ganker. However I guess the objective is not to stop the gank but to make it less efficient to gank. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
313
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Posted - 2014.08.28 12:22:00 -
[100] - Quote
Thomas Mayaki wrote:The worst thing about trying to stop freighter ganks apart from the non-existant rewards is identifying the target and the unknown timing of the attack. Both of which is determined by the attacker so it should be impossible to stop a freighter ganker. However I guess the objective is not to stop the gank but to make it less efficient to gank. This is all true. The gankers will always have the advantage of choosing the time, place, and target of the engagement. All the White Knight community can do is make ganking more difficult.
But this should be enough!
After all, surely a bunch of sociopathic PvP failures wouldn't keep suicidie-ganking if it took more work and coordination, right? Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
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Leto Thule
Fleet-Jump Surely You're Joking
1171
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Posted - 2014.08.28 14:07:00 -
[101] - Quote
Thomas Mayaki wrote: However I guess the objective is not to stop the gank but to make it less efficient to gank.
Come on guys...
This is not the answer.
Every time this discussion comes up, people bring up changing this and nerfing that. None of that is needed. Being ganked in a freighter is 100% preventable.
Ill show you how in this recording taken from my alt's flightrecorder:
"Scout to freighter, 12 in local, no flashies, no watchlist. Jump and decloak so I can get webs."
"Freighter to scout, copy. Jumping, alining to safe. Escort will be following to provide webs at safe in case of scan probes."
"Scout to freighter, next gate is red, next gate is red, 12 Talos on gate."
"Freighter to scout, copy that, ill dock up."
AAAAAANNNDDD viola! The gank as been prevented. Please notice that the freighter is moving with a scout, and an armed escort (like anything should do when carrying a shitload of money). It requires people to play the game together and communicate.
The tools are already there. The answer is not to make anything less profitable or less meaningful. Keep asking for that, and youll soon see the snowball effect of changes that lead nobody to playing this game anymore.
Just stop asking for nerfs.
Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
Ripard Teg sucks. |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
886
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 14:20:00 -
[102] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:
Come on guys...
This is not the answer.
Every time this discussion comes up, people bring up changing this and nerfing that. None of that is needed. Being ganked in a freighter is 100% preventable.
I have to use the term, but it's due to a large number of EVE players being, well, armed with a sense of entitlement that is just mind blowing. They come up with arguments such as "I just want to be left alone" and really manage to always skirt around the actual truth, the truth they are too afraid to say out loud.
That truth, of course, is:
"I want to gain a in-game advantage without actually being at the keyboard or subjected to any form of risk"
They want to park their 10 un-tanked mining alts in 0.5 space and strip whole belts clear without having to do much more then check back twice a hour to reset some lasers and move some ore around. They want to take contracts to move large amounts of gear from point A to point B for a profit, but they want to cook dinner or watch Netflix during the actual trip itself.
You can spot these entitled players a mile away. After engaging them in spaceship combat (in a video game that features spaceship combat as one of it's main features) they will often grow angry and make comments like:
"I just want to be left alone!" "Honor!" "Fair Fights" "(insert type of ship) cannot defend itself in any way!" "Griefing"
When myself and countless others patiently explain to them how to minimize their losses and not fall victim to these type of attacks, all these entitled players will do is whine more about how "unfair" things are - and again - they are simply lying and too afraid to tell you the truth.
That truth, of course, is:
"I don't want to have to learn about game mechanics or take the time to make friends who will fly with me and support my operations. I just want to be left alone!"
This is why I support CCP making a serious change and creating a second EVE online server, one that features no PVP combat outside of the duel system, no areas outside of high-sec space to confuse them - simply one huge 1.0 high-sec island where the entitled carebear is free to run missions and mine all day, even while totally AFK, without ever having to worry about any form of player vs. player interaction. We could even call it something like "World of Spaceships" or something :P |
Helena Tiberius Mabata
New Order Logistics CODE.
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 02:09:00 -
[103] - Quote
I love this thread |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9339
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 02:14:00 -
[104] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote: This is why I support CCP making a serious change and creating a second EVE online server, one that features no PVP combat outside of the duel system, no areas outside of high-sec space to confuse them - simply one huge 1.0 high-sec island where the entitled carebear is free to run missions and mine all day, even while totally AFK, without ever having to worry about any form of player vs. player interaction. We could even call it something like "World of Spaceships" or something :P
I think they already scrapped the idea for an EVE Online movie. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Helena Tiberius Mabata
New Order Logistics CODE.
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 17:59:00 -
[105] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:DJentropy Ovaert wrote: This is why I support CCP making a serious change and creating a second EVE online server, one that features no PVP combat outside of the duel system, no areas outside of high-sec space to confuse them - simply one huge 1.0 high-sec island where the entitled carebear is free to run missions and mine all day, even while totally AFK, without ever having to worry about any form of player vs. player interaction. We could even call it something like "World of Spaceships" or something :P
I think they already scrapped the idea for an EVE Online movie.
Dear sweet jesus what did i just read |
Kaely Tanniss
Aurora Novae Aetatis
20
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:57:00 -
[106] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:Confirming problems with this idea:
"Members Of The White Knight Community" tend to be totally awful at every single aspect of EVE mechanics. I'm not trolling, being rude, or trying to start a flame war - but they literally tend to be the worst players that I have ever engaged. They tend to fly massive fail fits, have serious issues with concepts such as locking onto targets, shooting at targets, basic game mechanics, or anything else needed to even have a chance at a successful fight. They also tend to be motivated by ideas they have come up with that the game client itself does not recognize.
Other problems:
Self-Interest. As you can see from just typing my name into Zkillboard, almost every single miner I encounter is thinking about one thing: how much ISK can I make per hour while not having to be at the keyboard in the first place. Everything else is irrelevant, from fitting any type of defense, from paying attention to what is going on in the first place.
Attention Span. Fighting back against gankers requires use of the EVE client. White-Knights and Miners tend to be AFK, watching Netflix, in the bathroom, or any activity that involves not using the EVE client. When it comes to miners, and I rarely say this - I wish that CCP would do something. The simple that that I can grab a barge, find a belt with two high-volume rocks, press f1 on one of them, f2 on the other, and then stop paying attention to EVE 30-45 mins and generally make a in-game profit is just sad to me. If there were changes made to make mining a much more "active" profession, not only would the bot-mining community be damaged (which I think we all see as a good thing) but miners themselves would find themselves actually engaging in defending themselves simply due to having to be at the keyboard in the first place :P
Fun: As a ganker, I don't have to wait on anyone to generate content or "play" with. If I feel like getting some action, I undock and go find someone to shoot - and rarely does it take me more then 5 mins to find something fun to shoot. The "White-Knight" is limited to waiting on me or other gankers before anything can happen - this triggers the above issue (Attention Span) and they then give up, hop back into a untanked Hulk, and watch netflix for another hour before exploding again.
Toxicity Of Community: With exceptions (I know a few "White-Knights" who are fun people, always give a GF in a local, and are a blast to talk with) - "White-Knights" tend to be motivated by anger, rage, hurt feelings, and a rather limited and immature view on how EVE works in the first place (One only need to consider the popular arguments of "YOU SHOULD GO TO LOW SEC", "MINING SHIPS CANNOT DEFEND THEMSELVES", "HONOR", "FAIR-FIGHT", etc) . This results in a self-defeating situation - players who do not suffer from the earlier issues (Overwhelming self-interest, short attention span, understanding of game mechanics) and who really just want to have some PVP fun make contact with "Anti-Ganking" groups, and then run away from them as quickly as possible due to the quality of communications in their communities. Other members of the New Order can vouch for me on this one, many of our members start off as "White-Knights" and simply grow tired of being part of a community known for little more then an obsessional with homosexual acts, e-rage, "honor", tears, and players who have no idea how EVE even works in the first place and this results in them joining us and commenting on how refreshingly fun and well-educated most members of the New Order tend to be.
In closing - I personally do not understand how spending hours of my game time hunting down members of ganking groups and managing to get myself in a position where I could "save" a target that is likely fit in a totally silly way and not even at the keyboard in the first place would be in any way "fun" - but I respect all forms of emergent gameplay. The real issue that I see with the failure of the "White-Knights" to ever accomplish anything of worth can only be solved by other mature and intelligent players considering that style of play as "fun" coming together - and the simple reality is that I don't know (with a few exceptions!) any mature and intelligent players who would consider it fun :P
And finally, I cannot find the original post - but someone on these forums once brought up what is another serious issue with the "Anti Ganker" concept - who really wants to spend their time "defending" people who have not realized that "Anti-Ganking" is something that can be taken care of by one person - the target. Using advanced techniques such as:
* watching local * being at keyboard * using intel channels * fitting a tank * using d-scan
will result in your chances of being ganked being reduced to a pretty tiny amount. After all, who wants to help players who cannot even be bothered to learn these very simple techniques?
Couldn't have said it better... :P
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it.. |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
923
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 06:00:00 -
[107] - Quote
Helena Tiberius Mabata wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:DJentropy Ovaert wrote: This is why I support CCP making a serious change and creating a second EVE online server, one that features no PVP combat outside of the duel system, no areas outside of high-sec space to confuse them - simply one huge 1.0 high-sec island where the entitled carebear is free to run missions and mine all day, even while totally AFK, without ever having to worry about any form of player vs. player interaction. We could even call it something like "World of Spaceships" or something :P
I think they already scrapped the idea for an EVE Online movie. Dear sweet jesus what did i just read
Let's just leave it at the result of whisky + sarcasm gone a bit extreme :P |
Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.08.31 14:03:00 -
[108] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote: "I want to gain a in-game advantage without actually being at the keyboard or subjected to any form of risk"
This is entirely possible too. In fact only a moron is ATK in high-sec while mining if you ask me. Smart players are properly AFK in high-sec or ATK but in nullsec.
That is probably the saddest part of this whole thing. The game mechanics in high-sec are imbalanced towards the side of safety, and yet the whining still continues. They have designed the mechanics so you can safely AFK mine, AFK haul, or AFK travel at the cost of efficiency/profit. |
Zero Sum Gain
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOM Silent Requiem
104
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 16:04:00 -
[109] - Quote
I think this applies more to the miners than "white knights". WKs still have the obstacle of being present for the gank. So the solution for this, as with everything in eve, is alts. Logi link, w/e . (This is for the solo miner not willing to is box a fleet since obviously it's more effective in every aspect to fleet barges.)
For every task in space, an alt is more reliable than a friend. Scouting for haulers, sebo for gate camp, logi for miners/mission/plex ing. Doesn't matter, have alt. |
Don Purple
The Pursuit of Happiness
442
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 18:43:00 -
[110] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:Helena Tiberius Mabata wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:DJentropy Ovaert wrote: This is why I support CCP making a serious change and creating a second EVE online server, one that features no PVP combat outside of the duel system, no areas outside of high-sec space to confuse them - simply one huge 1.0 high-sec island where the entitled carebear is free to run missions and mine all day, even while totally AFK, without ever having to worry about any form of player vs. player interaction. We could even call it something like "World of Spaceships" or something :P
I think they already scrapped the idea for an EVE Online movie. Dear sweet jesus what did i just read Let's just leave it at the result of whisky + sarcasm gone a bit extreme :P Pretty sure you gave me a nose bleed DJ xD.
I am just here to snuggle. |
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Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite CODE.
108
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Posted - 2014.08.31 22:20:00 -
[111] - Quote
With an alt that acts as webber/scout you can basically prevent all freighter ganks. That means with 2 accounts you can beat like 20 people. In what other activity is that considered remotely possible?
What the tearful carebears want is to be able to beat 20 people with one account. And while AFK. Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com
Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,-á live it, breathe it! |
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