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Moghydin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:33:00 -
[1]
After watching several fights on EvE-TV, I'm starting to think that all those drone skills and tweaks made drone carrier ships a bit overpowered. It's clear that a drone carrier ships still have a decent DPS rating even when we don't take drones into account (not good, but decent), and still have a tank, that if any other type of ship would attempt to have, it would be only possible to fit it by giving up on any damage dealing potential. It's not a secret that thorax is the best PvP cruiser. Of course you can beat it, if you equip specifically against it, but thorax doesn't need to tweak the setup to go to battle, and that is the sign of an overpowered ship. Domi for example is nearly invincible 1 vs 1. It either kills an opponent or warps out (because killing it is possible only out of it's NOS and blaster range). And now, with T2 blaster ammo, and T2 heavy drones, more resembling frigates, killing drone cariers is harder than ever. Do you think that the balance is altered?
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:42:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Moghydin
After watching several fights on EvE-TV, I'm starting to think that all those drone skills and tweaks made drone carrier ships a bit overpowered. It's clear that a drone carrier ships still have a decent DPS rating even when we don't take drones into account (not good, but decent), and still have a tank, that if any other type of ship would attempt to have, it would be only possible to fit it by giving up on any damage dealing potential.
Are we watching the same tournament? Those drone ships all have heavy/medium armor/shield maintanence bots out!
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
starvoid
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:45:00 -
[3]
In a word, no. Should a ship whose pilot has 7 mil sp in gunnery do the same damage as one whose pilot has 7 mil in gunnery and 5 mil in drones? Some say the drones are worth a single high slot, 5 mil sp for one extra slot? A drone ship may be able to dish a little more dps than a non-drone ship in some cases, but not without significant skillpoint investment.
If you want to worry about things being overpowered i suggest you look at how a gunnery user's day can be ruined by a single mouse click on a single automatic midslot item, whereas there is no equivalent counter to missiles. I place this ahead of drones in the 'need for nerf/balance' queue tbh
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Too Kind
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Posted - 2006.07.22 22:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: starvoid
In a word, no. Should a ship whose pilot has 7 mil sp in gunnery do the same damage as one whose pilot has 7 mil in gunnery and 5 mil in drones? Some say the drones are worth a single high slot, 5 mil sp for one extra slot? A drone ship may be able to dish a little more dps than a non-drone ship in some cases, but not without significant skillpoint investment.
Hmm, guess the Typhoon in full damage setup should be uber then. Tech-2 large guns, tech-2 drones, tech-2 missiles. That's a lot of SP. 
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Post with your main !!!111 |
starvoid
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Posted - 2006.07.22 22:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Too Kind
Hmm, guess the Typhoon in full damage setup should be uber then. Tech-2 large guns, tech-2 drones, tech-2 missiles. That's a lot of SP.
That would be logical. Isn't it the case that minmatar ships rock if you have lots of sp?
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Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.22 22:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: starvoid
Originally by: Too Kind
Hmm, guess the Typhoon in full damage setup should be uber then. Tech-2 large guns, tech-2 drones, tech-2 missiles. That's a lot of SP.
That would be logical. Isn't it the case that minmatar ships rock if you have lots of sp?
im pretty sure thats true of most ships 
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Ranger 1
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.22 23:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Moghydin
After watching several fights on EvE-TV, I'm starting to think that all those drone skills and tweaks made drone carrier ships a bit overpowered. It's clear that a drone carrier ships still have a decent DPS rating even when we don't take drones into account (not good, but decent), and still have a tank, that if any other type of ship would attempt to have, it would be only possible to fit it by giving up on any damage dealing potential. It's not a secret that thorax is the best PvP cruiser. Of course you can beat it, if you equip specifically against it, but thorax doesn't need to tweak the setup to go to battle, and that is the sign of an overpowered ship. Domi for example is nearly invincible 1 vs 1. It either kills an opponent or warps out (because killing it is possible only out of it's NOS and blaster range). And now, with T2 blaster ammo, and T2 heavy drones, more resembling frigates, killing drone cariers is harder than ever. Do you think that the balance is altered?
Drones are very effective, yes. But not as much as you seem to think. Here are a few things to consider.
1: All of those repair drones you see in the tournament are only able to help other ships, they cannot be used on your own ship.
2: It is VERY debateable that the Thorax is the best PVP cruiser.
3: Drones tend to have a mind of their own.
4: PVP 1 vs 1 is a fantasy carebears created to comfort themselves at night when they wish to dream about the awesome tanking ability of thier agent running ship.
5: Have YOU ever tried to recall your drones and warp out in a hurry? And if you abandon them, you are pretty much done until you can restock.
6: Passive tanks tend to do well against NOS/Drone boats inside 20km.
7: Cap injectors tend to allow many types of ships to do well against NOS/Drone boats inside 20km.
8: In 0.0, few things are more amusing than popping Domi's trapped in an Interdiction sphere or a warp inhibitor bubble.
Just some food for thought. All that said, I do love my drone boats.
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D'onryu Shoqui
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.22 23:47:00 -
[8]
Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 22/07/2006 23:47:55
dont forget that drones can be killed pretty easily in alot of cases rendering the ship useless if it relys on drones for dmg.
Quote:
(because killing it is possible only out of it's NOS and blaster range).
DOMI CAN NOT HAVE BOTH BLASTERS AND NOS EITHER
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Lyrien
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Posted - 2006.07.23 00:15:00 -
[9]
maybe is not the right forum to ask but i'll try
Consider that i'm a reaaally a noob, i'm so good in PVP that a 5 years old kid with a coke can for ship and a snowball launcher can take me down in more or less 5 secs.
I have invested a lot of SPs in drones, i like the idea of a drone carrier, i don't even know if is a powerfull setting, i just like the idea.
Is wasted time? I don't tend to became a pvp player, but more or less survive if i want to go from point A to point B and in the middle tehre is a lowsec, i'm not even interested in taking down other ships, at least not now with my current level of experience, just survive an encounter for now.
But relying on drones, is possible to survive if i end up in a low sec or if in future want to go in 0.0 ?
In a possible fleet i'd like to play a support role more than an heavy fighter one.
Ok shoot me *duck*
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Jezeret
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Posted - 2006.07.23 02:01:00 -
[10]
Well, I wouldn't take the Tournament as a guideline, in real PvP you don't wait until the other guys are ready and someone says 'go!'. Usually it is a group of ships firing on one or more bewildered ships who have little chance to organise or start calling targets etc.
You can be pretty nasty with attack drones, I find them pretty useful, even my Arbitrator makes a nice little drone-carrier and you can swarm most smaller ships. The days of being able to throw 10+ Heavy drones into battle and take down a Battleship are over, however, in the Tournament, they are going to make little if any difference, better to exchange the hitting ability of a drone for maintaining the hitting ability of a larger ship I would guess.
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Alazais
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.23 05:18:00 -
[11]
Don't nerf my Domi :p
TBH they do seem a little powerful, still the overwhelmingly obvious answer springs to mind though, smartbombs completely shut them down.
Smartbombs, web + any frig/cruiser weapon, precision cruise, medium drones. These are all useful in taking out the drones on an attacking drone carrier.
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Degaal Valen
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.23 05:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alazais
the overwhelmingly obvious answer springs to mind though, smartbombs completely shut them down.
Smartbombs, web + any frig/cruiser weapon, precision cruise, medium drones. These are all useful in taking out the drones on an attacking drone carrier.
Considering how often dominixes have NOSes in their hislots you're only going to take out the first wave of drones from that gigantic dronebay before the pilot wises up and NOSes you out of cap to sustain your smartbombs.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.23 07:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Alazais
Don't nerf my Domi :p
TBH they do seem a little powerful, still the overwhelmingly obvious answer springs to mind though, smartbombs completely shut them down.
Smartbombs, web + any frig/cruiser weapon, precision cruise, medium drones. These are all useful in taking out the drones on an attacking drone carrier.
What ship can put all those weapons at once to take out a Domi?
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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jack sparra
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Posted - 2006.07.23 08:16:00 -
[14]
its about time drone ships got a fair chance at doing damage. Srry if this thread is meant to be a NERF DRONES! because they can take out my ship. But just stop moaning and make something to beat them up, for years the other races had to put up with the stupidly powered RAVEN but we just got on with it and found ways to kill it
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Sovy Kurosei
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.23 08:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Alazais
TBH they do seem a little powerful, still the overwhelmingly obvious answer springs to mind though, smartbombs completely shut them down.
If you are relying on smart bombs as a counter to a Dominix then you are already resigned yourself to a draw at best or defeat against a competent Dominix opponent that is set up for PvP. If he is able to send his drones at you then he has the ability to tackle you, use his ECM and, most importantly, steal your cap for his tank.
Originally by: Alazais
Smartbombs, web + any frig/cruiser weapon, precision cruise, medium drones. These are all useful in taking out the drones on an attacking drone carrier.
They are not so great at taking down the actual Dominix itself.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.23 09:52:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/07/2006 09:54:26
The problem isnt people having drones. Its that using a drone carrier frees up all those high slots for nos, so they can fit a really mean tank at the same time as doing good damage. And killing the drones is pretty hard when you are jammed senseless with multispectrals while also getting cap drained.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.07.23 09:55:00 -
[17]
the good news is that CCP are bringing in kali anti NOS weapons (either to reduce the enemies effectiveness or making it a bit more dependant on fittings) that should reduce the domi if done right as for drones ive said it auto cannons that have better lucky hitting drones or anti drone drones might be an otion
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Richard Blade
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Posted - 2006.07.23 18:55:00 -
[18]
i beg to differ with you position missles are the unbalancing thing in this game a raven is a far better ship than say a megathron even if the guy flyin the mega has better skills i have 5 mil sp in drones and they are worse now than when i first got heavy drones 10 months ago believe me try doin a lvl4 mission in a domi when you are fightin 1,2 mil isk bs (ravens) and see how you fair.
thnk for listenin
Richard Blade
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Cloud Alexander
Nubs.
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Posted - 2006.07.23 19:35:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cloud Alexander on 23/07/2006 19:37:05
Originally by: Richard Blade
i beg to differ with you position missles are the unbalancing thing in this game a raven is a far better ship than say a megathron even if the guy flyin the mega has better skills i have 5 mil sp in drones and they are worse now than when i first got heavy drones 10 months ago believe me try doin a lvl4 mission in a domi when you are fightin 1,2 mil isk bs (ravens) and see how you fair.
thnk for listenin
Richard Blade
Domi tier 1 battleship, Raven tier 2 Battleship. See the difference? You dont see scorpions runing those kind of missions for obvoius reasons... Even though it can tank better then a Raven.
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Moghydin
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2006.07.23 20:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/07/2006 09:54:26
The problem isnt people having drones. Its that using a drone carrier frees up all those high slots for nos, so they can fit a really mean tank at the same time as doing good damage. And killing the drones is pretty hard when you are jammed senseless with multispectrals while also getting cap drained.
QFT. It was actually the reason for my original post. Drones can do good dmg, while freeing high slots of the drone carrier for all kinds of nasty staff.
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