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Capacitor recharge rate & Power load

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Athena Vinci Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 01:18:00 - [1] Why arent the two related? Shouldnt the capacitor recharge faster if you have less of a power load? Not even a question, the answer is YES. So why isnt this so? Seems like it would add for more strategy in ship configs. <signature>yo</signature>
lofty29 Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 01:21:00 - [2] Theres a 'power load' stat? I thought it was Capacitor Capacity --------------------------- Originally by: HippoKing ...I suck at forums
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.07.24 01:22:00 - [3] Originally by: lofty29 Theres a 'power load' stat? I thought it was Capacitor Capacity I think he means %age of powergrid in use; if you have a lot of free power grid, your capacitor should recharge more quickly. I'm not sure what his reasoning is. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
lofty29 Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 01:25:00 - [4] Oh right. The powergrid (thus, power load) has nothing to do with the capacitor. Why on earth would fitting as little as possible to get good cap recharge rate be strategic. More like damn silly, tbh. --------------------------- Originally by: HippoKing ...I suck at forums
Fortiferous	Posted - 2006.07.24 01:27:00 - [5] I guess if electric power isn't going to run stuff on the Power Grid, more is free to divert to the capacitor, thus increasing the recharge rate. As an Amarr, this would be nice, but I'd put the chance of this going in at 10/14959302195495
Athena Vinci Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 01:35:00 - [6] The reasoning is very basic if you have any background at all in electronics, engineering or physics. A capacitor charges faster when a higher voltage is applied to it, more voltage can be routed to the capacitor from the reactor if it is not being used by your ship equipment. The strategy can come from perhaps loading your ships with equipment that doesnt take as much from the power grid, but requires the capacitor greatly when in use. Sometimes it could mean not equiping that 6th turret so that you could run ECM or a shield charger which drains it at a rate slower than the recharge rate. <signature>yo</signature>
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.24 01:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Athena Vinci Sometimes it could mean not equiping that 6th turret so that you could run ECM or a shield charger which drains it at a rate slower than the recharge rate. We already have this, it's called STOP SHOOTING the 6th turret and than you'll have more cap (unless you're using projectiles)
Athena Vinci Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 01:54:00 - [8] Actually you would have to take it offline instead of just not shooting it, but neither will boost the capacitor recharge rate. <signature>yo</signature>
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.24 01:59:00 - [9] No no, if you stop shooting, than you're using less cap, so you have more cap to run your shield booster or ECM or whatever... It's the same effect as your idea but better cause you can start shooting again whenever you want
Athena Vinci Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 02:03:00 - [10] You're talking about the final combination of drain rate and recharge rate which would be the total rate of change in the capacitor energy. I'm talking about just the recharge rate. <signature>yo</signature>
Threefisted Olie	Posted - 2006.07.24 02:20:00 - [11] Powergrid is not energy. It is a measure of system capacity. Its like the big plug in the laundry room for the electric dryer. There needs to be a large size plug to fit a large size item. Unplugging the electric dryer doesn't cause the electric bill to go down. Not using the electric dryer is what causes the electric bill to go down.
Athena Vinci Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 02:26:00 - [12] Your analogy only highlights the need for this. If the powergrid is not being used fully and there is no penality for using it fully, then this extra headroom for power generation should be used for charging the capacitor. <signature>yo</signature>
Arkanor Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 02:51:00 - [13] Edited by: Arkanor on 24/07/2006 02:53:34 Originally by: Athena Vinci Your analogy only highlights the need for this. If the powergrid is not being used fully and there is no penality for using it fully, then this extra headroom for power generation should be used for charging the capacitor. Right and when we charge batteries faster they get hot, hot batteries have a shorter life and/or may explode or burn off their electrolyte, making them useless. This is why all ship BPOs from every state have put AVR into their capacitor recharge systems which limit the amount of energy flowing into the capacitor. Capacitor rechargers and power relays split more energy across more capacitors in order to achieve a higher net recharge without ruining the cells. Satisfied? Balance the Gun/Missile skilltrees! Originally by: kieron rabble, Rabble, RABBLE,
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 02:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Athena Vinci The reasoning is very basic if you have any background at all in electronics, engineering or physics. A capacitor charges faster when a higher voltage is applied to it, more voltage can be routed to the capacitor from the reactor if it is not being used by your ship equipment. The strategy can come from perhaps loading your ships with equipment that doesnt take as much from the power grid, but requires the capacitor greatly when in use. Sometimes it could mean not equiping that 6th turret so that you could run ECM or a shield charger which drains it at a rate slower than the recharge rate. Because i have an understanding in Electronics, i recall that by applying a higher voltage to capacitor the recharge rate DOES NOT accellerates. It only gives you the possiblity to acquire a higher voltage at the capacitor the amount of time for a capacitor to reach the ~95% of the highest voltage is fixed and irrelevant of the voltage applied. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.07.24 03:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Arkanor Edited by: Arkanor on 24/07/2006 02:53:34 Originally by: Athena Vinci Your analogy only highlights the need for this. If the powergrid is not being used fully and there is no penality for using it fully, then this extra headroom for power generation should be used for charging the capacitor. Right and when we charge batteries faster they get hot, hot batteries have a shorter life and/or may explode or burn off their electrolyte, making them useless. This is why all ship BPOs from every state have put AVR into their capacitor recharge systems which limit the amount of energy flowing into the capacitor. Capacitor rechargers and power relays split more energy across more capacitors in order to achieve a higher net recharge without ruining the cells. Satisfied? thats real life logic, that doesn't correspond with eve logic.
Itaro Flagg Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2006.07.24 03:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Athena Vinci The reasoning is very basic if you have any background at all in electronics, engineering or physics. A capacitor charges faster when a higher voltage is applied to it, more voltage can be routed to the capacitor from the reactor if it is not being used by your ship equipment. The strategy can come from perhaps loading your ships with equipment that doesnt take as much from the power grid, but requires the capacitor greatly when in use. Sometimes it could mean not equiping that 6th turret so that you could run ECM or a shield charger which drains it at a rate slower than the recharge rate. Alright, as someone who does have a bit of electronics background... well, let me explain a few things here. Capacitor charge rate is actually controlled by the current across it. As more current is applied, the capacitor more quickly reaches a charge of V(voltage applied). So, to begin with this, to clarify termonology; as more current is applied to a capacitor, it charges more quickly. Now, power load is a function of both current and voltage; as either increases so does power output (in watts). So, theoretically, the reactor of a ship is capable of outputting W(watts), as listed on the attributes of the ship. So, if a ship, lets take the Tempest, which has a base of 15,500 mW output, using the formula of W=CV, without bothering to actually work out numbers, you can see the relation that as you use up more available wattage, you have less available CV. So, basically what I'm saying is--the original post does make sense, but kinda fudged the terminology :) It's a common mistake to confuse voltage for current. Not sure how it would work balance-wise, but im sure the numbers could be balanced... and would add more variety to builds, which can only be a good thing
themule Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 03:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Arkanor Edited by: Arkanor on 24/07/2006 02:53:34 Originally by: Athena Vinci Your analogy only highlights the need for this. If the powergrid is not being used fully and there is no penality for using it fully, then this extra headroom for power generation should be used for charging the capacitor. Right and when we charge batteries faster they get hot, hot batteries have a shorter life and/or may explode or burn off their electrolyte, making them useless. This is why all ship BPOs from every state have put AVR into their capacitor recharge systems which limit the amount of energy flowing into the capacitor. Capacitor rechargers and power relays split more energy across more capacitors in order to achieve a higher net recharge without ruining the cells. Satisfied? Capacitors and chemical batterys are very diffrent.
gfldex	Posted - 2006.07.24 03:56:00 - [18] When you look up a definition of physics and compare it to a definition of game you will easyly find out that both concepts are completely unrelated. Anyway, EVE > physics -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Alexi Borizkova Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 04:04:00 - [19] I thought abotu this early on, working with a system of percentage of unused pwoer grid going towards cap recharge percentage, and unused cpu going towards lock time. Really though, as it stands, things are in a delicate balance, adding this would take a lot of work to completely rebalance the system so it can't be abused, making more trouble than the coolness it adds. In Corporate Caldari, taxes pay YOU.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.24 07:11:00 - [20] It does make sense, but in that case it would also mean probably that base recharge = 0, so if you use 100% grid, your capacitors wouldn't recharge at all. And also that increasing the total amount of capacitors, shouldn't increase effective cap recharge per second. Maybe a good change, but pretty low priority I'd say...
ildra	Posted - 2006.07.24 08:00:00 - [21] Edited by: ildra on 24/07/2006 08:00:06 where does it state that there isnt two power sources on a ship? one for the capacitor and one for the powergrid.
RedVixen Knights of Sovereignty	Posted - 2006.07.24 09:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Athena Vinci The reasoning is very basic if you have any background at all in electronics, engineering or physics. A capacitor charges faster when a higher voltage is applied to it Rubbish! A capacitor charges to approximatly 95% of applied Voltage at roughly 5CR where C is Capacitance, and R is the resistance (be it internal resistance from the powersource, or resistance through the connecting wires). So if you apply a Higher voltage it still takes the same period of time to charge the capacitor to the voltage of the supply. The only way to make a capacitor charge quicker is to reduce the 'R' (resistance). I'd look into power supply internal resistance and capacitor charging equations (such as the 5CR) before making statements like that. But I see where you are coming from, it should charge faster with less modules connected, but there again, when the modules are not in use i suspect they are in 'standby mode' and use no power. The fitting readout is displaying max grid use (rather than actual power consumed) so that the grid cannot be overloaded - even by accident - if all the modules are activated at the same time. Also, Capacitors have a maximum charge and discharge rate before and if this is exceeded it rapidly reduces the lifetime of the capacitor, perhaps another reason it recharges at the same rate, independant of the power drawn by fitted modules.
voxen Es and Whizz	Posted - 2006.07.24 10:06:00 - [23] let's not relate powergrid to cap recharge rate. Not because of the physics (heh), but simply because it would make it a true tackler fest; imagine a big ship with only a webber and scram + 4 big reppers, running fulltime because they're using only a little amount of the powergrid... no thank you.
Caleb Paine Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.24 10:07:00 - [24] Edited by: Caleb Paine on 24/07/2006 10:08:29 The idea of using slimmed down modules using less power or mass and thus upping your vehicle's performance that way is used in several games, Starsiege being one of them. Actually EVE has something similar with the armor plates. It's not a silly concept (at leats not from a game mechanic point of view) and could make for more diverse configs and fights. However, it could be exploited to the max as descibed above. ----------------- Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
Alexi Borizkova Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 10:13:00 - [25] If it was minor, say, 5% capacitor recharge rate per 20% unused power grid it might be fine, avoiding some of the broken fittings, but requiring 60% of your grid to be unused to get a "free cap recharger" would be a tactic I don't see many using, but it being there might be nice. In Corporate Caldari, taxes pay YOU.
Arkanor Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 10:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Arkanor Edited by: Arkanor on 24/07/2006 02:53:34 Originally by: Athena Vinci Your analogy only highlights the need for this. If the powergrid is not being used fully and there is no penality for using it fully, then this extra headroom for power generation should be used for charging the capacitor. Right and when we charge batteries faster they get hot, hot batteries have a shorter life and/or may explode or burn off their electrolyte, making them useless. This is why all ship BPOs from every state have put AVR into their capacitor recharge systems which limit the amount of energy flowing into the capacitor. Capacitor rechargers and power relays split more energy across more capacitors in order to achieve a higher net recharge without ruining the cells. Satisfied? thats real life logic, that doesn't correspond with eve logic. The OP's point was based in real logic, not eve logic. Balance the Gun/Missile skilltrees! Originally by: kieron rabble, Rabble, RABBLE,
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Arkanor The OP's point was based in real logic, not eve logic. Which makes it null and void automatically. This is a game, remember? Originally by: various people Advanced electronics gibberish that I don't understand. Who cares? It's a game. Decide what's best for gameplay, THEN come up with a plausible-sounding reason that it should happen. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."

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