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Is this an exploit, or am I just an idiot?

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Eralus	Posted - 2006.07.24 08:47:00 - [1] OK, so I get a message asking to sell me a Navy Issue Caracal for cash. Sounds fine. Trade window comes up, there's an item named 'Caracal Navy Issue' and I right click and do 'Inspect' and a window comes up, again, Caracal Navy Issue. Looks good, so I do the trade. It's a bit of a discount but the guy seems anxious to unload the thing so no biggie. Ooops. I go to put the thing on escrow, and after a day, the thing hasn't sold, which I found odd. Go to relist it, and the confirmation window lists 'Caracal', not 'Caracal Navy Issue'. Hrm. So I bring up the information, and sure enough, although it plainly says 'Caracal Navy Issue' for the item name, all the stats are for a regular caracal, and it does say 'Cruiser' instead of 'Elite Cruiser' on the top. So, WTF is going on here? Is this an exploit? I havn't read anything about a scam along these lines before. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Deadeye Dave Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.24 08:49:00 - [2] It sounds like it was a Caracal named Caracal Navy Issue.
eLLioTT wave Art of War Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.24 08:54:00 - [3] Originally by: Deadeye Dave It sounds like it was a Caracal named Caracal Navy Issue. Indeed, check the item description in show info window ftw. This is NOT editable and will show the true item. Also if there are any changes to the trade window requiring you to click the accept button again, then double check the desc info before doing so. Someone could haggle over the price then change the module listed very quickly and hope you don't notice ;)
Drizit Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.24 08:56:00 - [4] You were scammed. It's a regular scam that happens by naming the ship. Your trade window shows the name of the ship instead of the actual ship description and what you should have done is check the stats in the info before parting with the isk. --
Eralus	Posted - 2006.07.24 08:59:00 - [5] Edited by: Eralus on 24/07/2006 09:03:46 Heh, that's pretty lame. I think it's fairly poor game design when you have to go 'Hrm, is this REALLY the item it looks like? I better right click to check. Oh, wait, sorry, you needed to right-click two more times and either read the smallest text on a window that may not even be visible to know what this item really is.' Now I have to decide whether I'm enough of an ass to pull the same thing on someone else to get my money back. Just glad I didn't have enough cash lying around to buy that 'Raven Navy Issue' ;) _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
DonJuan deMatos Die Apokalyptischen Reiter Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.07.24 09:10:00 - [6] btw the 'Caracal Navy Issue' is a faction cruiser not an elite cruiser. but u should clearly see it in the 'show info' description
Brutor Shaun Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.24 10:15:00 - [7] If the person selling isn't willing to escrow it to you, don't buy it! You can rename items in the trade window, but you can't rename repackeaged items, and you can't escrow without repackaging.
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.24 10:17:00 - [8] I had a guy pull this with my alt and instead of paying 370mill for 2 "cerberuses" I offered 3.7 mill. Didn't work though It sure peed the scammer off though Finally, as a general rule make people escrow something to you. The escrow shows what it REALLY is. People do this through direct trades saying "oh, the market / escrow is down"
Melkor Bloodaxe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.24 10:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Brutor Shaun If the person selling isn't willing to escrow it to you, don't buy it! You can rename items in the trade window, but you can't rename repackeaged items, and you can't escrow without repackaging. just don't buy unpacked items. No real need to escrow, as with the trading system in stations (p2p wise) it's the same principle: only buy packed ships. Or do a double re-check --- Originally by: HippoKing Since when is justified killing more fun than random killing?
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.07.24 11:59:00 - [10] It's also generally a good idea always to apply the "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't", "would I do this?" (like picking one person randomly to sell them stuff cheap instead i.e. asking in the system chat or trade channel) and "always assume that what you see is a scam" rules.
Vito Parabellum	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:03:00 - [11] If you show info on something the ship class should be in the caption and also above the name.
Jude Law	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:06:00 - [12] well hope this will end with the contracts system in kali
Piotr Anatolev Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:15:00 - [13] Happened to me in Jita as well, someone trying to sell me 5 Cerberuses for the price of 4. This dod told me he was in a big hurry and didnt have the time to wait for it to sell off escrow. Rite, well, I inspected the items in trade window and sure enough, it turned out to be 5 Caracals, confirming my suspicion I had all the time. Told the dod to **** off and warned about the incident in local.
Ketrin	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:17:00 - [14] heheh, that is also PvP in some form. You have been scamed, maybe by a dude called Twarby? :) He scamed me ones ^^
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Jude Law well hope this will end with the contracts system in kali Not really. This was no escrow scam, but simply done by trading. I doubt they'll remove the trade option in Kali.
Novarei Ninth Column	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Eralus Is this an exploit, or am I just an idiot? Well its definitley not the former. --------------------
Eyeshadow Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Novarei Originally by: Eralus Is this an exploit, or am I just an idiot? Well its definitley not the former. Nor is it the latter. The OP is obviously a newbie, cut her some slack. Its an easy mistake to make when your just starting out The best advise has already been given. Do not trade unpackaged items, simple as My Latest Vid (18/04/06)
Omega Bloodstone	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:47:00 - [18] I wouldn't say this is an exploit. More like a "cheap turd" acting like an "ars". It's prolly not an exploit because the game was not interfeared with. You just got tricked unfortunately. It'll prolly fall in the same lines a the 300 million dollar Macerial on escrow that is actually just a BM. User error...Just look into trades very carefully in Eve, same as escrow. Inspect all of it. I just dont even look at the names, I go directly into the attributes of the item to make sure. Sorry that stupid repulsive stuff happened to you.
Lungorthin Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.24 13:22:00 - [19] I remember once someone of my corp (dont remember who, I do remembr that he left our corp a long time go) wanted to trade his Scorpion for an Armageddon. He apparently started to ask in local in some Empire system if someone was willing to make that kind of trade. One quick thinking scammer said ok, and offered him an Omen (instead of Armageddon) in the trade window. Our victim was apparently in such a hurry that he did not really check what was being offered, an Omen does have certain distant resemblance to an Armageddon. I laughed hard at those news, but the poor sod sure was fuming over his own stupidity. WTT BS for Cruiser.. hehe
DarkElf Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 13:39:00 - [20] Why do ppl still fall for these. no offense mate. Everyone as a general rule. NEVER buy something from a trade window unless it is repackaged. When something is repackaged it shows it's true name of exactly what it is. this can't be changed. Anyone genuine will not mind repackaging something and re-doing the trade. DE
Rasitiln Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Deja Thoris I had a guy pull this with my alt and instead of paying 370mill for 2 "cerberuses" I offered 3.7 mill. Didn't work though It sure peed the scammer off though Finally, as a general rule make people escrow something to you. The escrow shows what it REALLY is. People do this through direct trades saying "oh, the market / escrow is down" I did the same thing except it was a scorp named rattlesnake I offerd 1.7mill insted of 1.7bill, but alas it didnt work Want to be a pirate? Join Sniggwaffe
Eralus	Posted - 2006.07.24 17:29:00 - [22] Originally by: DarkElf Why do ppl still fall for these. no offense mate. Everyone as a general rule. NEVER buy something from a trade window unless it is repackaged. When something is repackaged it shows it's true name of exactly what it is. this can't be changed. Anyone genuine will not mind repackaging something and re-doing the trade. Here's a better question: How would you NOT fall for it? You can't sell anything on the market unless it's repackaged. You can't sell anything on escrow unless it's repackaged. But, the trade window is different, apparently there you can. There is NOTHING in the trade window that indicates 'this item is repackaged' or 'this item is not repackaged'. There is no documentation that says items can be renamed, or that the renamed name is goingg to show up instead of the actual name in what appears to be a SYSTEM ITEM INFORMATION window. It works the exact opposite of any other thing you've done on a computer ever. Apparently the only way to know that the item EVE is telling you is one thing is actully not that thing is to, after the info window comes up, to click open the description window (as my window came up to variations I think) and read the fine print. Wouldn't better game design be that the name of the item that is displayed is actually, say, the name of the item? Is it odd for any new user to expect anything different? I have 20 years of experience that says that when the game tells you what something is that that's what it is. Now, I'm not too bitter about this as I expect with any new game there's going to be a learning curve, and a couple hundred mil is a fairly cheap lesson. But I really don't see how you can expect anyone to 'have a general rule' until they've learned the hard way, or been lucky enough to read about it in the forum or something. The whole thing just doesn't make sense. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 17:35:00 - [23] Originally by: Eralus Originally by: DarkElf Why do ppl still fall for these. no offense mate. Everyone as a general rule. NEVER buy something from a trade window unless it is repackaged. When something is repackaged it shows it's true name of exactly what it is. this can't be changed. Anyone genuine will not mind repackaging something and re-doing the trade. Here's a better question: How would you NOT fall for it? You can't sell anything on the market unless it's repackaged. You can't sell anything on escrow unless it's repackaged. But, the trade window is different, apparently there you can. There is NOTHING in the trade window that indicates 'this item is repackaged' or 'this item is not repackaged'. Yes there is. Try it with both till you notice. Originally by: Eralus Apparently the only way to know that the item EVE is telling you is one thing is actully not that thing is to, after the info window comes up, to click open the description window (as my window came up to variations I think) and read the fine print. Reading the actual description? OH GOD NO. Kinda reminds me of the XBox boxes As a pure reply to the title, you are just an idiot.
Unuthiel Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.24 17:40:00 - [24] Quote: Is this an exploit, or am I just an idiot? Well, really, both could be true, it's not either/or.
Trepkos Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.07.24 17:52:00 - [25] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eralus Originally by: DarkElf Why do ppl still fall for these. no offense mate. Everyone as a general rule. NEVER buy something from a trade window unless it is repackaged. When something is repackaged it shows it's true name of exactly what it is. this can't be changed. Anyone genuine will not mind repackaging something and re-doing the trade. Here's a better question: How would you NOT fall for it? You can't sell anything on the market unless it's repackaged. You can't sell anything on escrow unless it's repackaged. But, the trade window is different, apparently there you can. There is NOTHING in the trade window that indicates 'this item is repackaged' or 'this item is not repackaged'. Yes there is. Try it with both till you notice. Originally by: Eralus Apparently the only way to know that the item EVE is telling you is one thing is actully not that thing is to, after the info window comes up, to click open the description window (as my window came up to variations I think) and read the fine print. Reading the actual description? OH GOD NO. Kinda reminds me of the XBox boxes As a pure reply to the title, you are just an idiot. So mean, but so true. -------- ANGEL DEEP CORPORATION
Jinx Barker Gallente Federal Bank	Posted - 2006.07.24 17:56:00 - [26] Happens all the time.... it is actually very lucrative trade if you find the "right victim" - usually the uninformed and greddy fall for it. Since you posted asking questions, I presume you were just uninformed. One of few ways to tell if the ship sale is a scam: 1) Look at ship's specs, Navy Caracal has more shields 2) And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, ask the seller to REPACKAGE the ship - if the ship is not packaged in the sale window, DO NOT BUY IT. It happend to me before, I alsmot had my greed take over and buy the ship LOL, but then I decided to triple check, and I noticed that the shields were not the same as the CN Caracal. Spent 5 minutes in the convo with the guy, playing dumb trying to see how far he will go to sell the Caracals, but eventually he realised I was on to him. But, almost got me... LOL.
Eralus	Posted - 2006.07.24 18:05:00 - [27] Originally by: HippoKing Yes there is. Try it with both till you notice. Uh, no, there isn't. I didn't say that they wern't different, I said that there is nothing that indicates the item wasn't repackaged. It's not like the scammer is kind enough to put both a repackaged and unrepackaged item in the trade window so you can see there's a difference. Again, there is no place where it says an unrepackaged item is not repackaged. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 18:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Eralus Originally by: HippoKing Yes there is. Try it with both till you notice. Uh, no, there isn't. I didn't say that they wern't different, I said that there is nothing that indicates the item wasn't repackaged. It's not like the scammer is kind enough to put both a repackaged and unrepackaged item in the trade window so you can see there's a difference. Again, there is no place where it says an unrepackaged item is not repackaged. Yes there is. Try it with both till you notice.
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 18:08:00 - [29] Edited by: HippoKing on 24/07/2006 18:08:55 double postage
Jinx Barker Gallente Federal Bank	Posted - 2006.07.24 18:08:00 - [30] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 24/07/2006 18:16:16 Originally by: Eralus Originally by: HippoKing Yes there is. Try it with both till you notice. Uh, no, there isn't. I didn't say that they wern't different, I said that there is nothing that indicates the item wasn't repackaged. It's not like the scammer is kind enough to put both a repackaged and unrepackaged item in the trade window so you can see there's a difference. Again, there is no place where it says an unrepackaged item is not repackaged. Yes there is. There is a little NUMBER in the lower right corner when the item is repackaged, it is indication as to the NUMBER of ITEMS in a STACK. If you do not see the NUMBER, usually 1 if it is a single ship trade, then the ship is not packaged. EDIT: Here is an Example of what it looks like

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