EVE Search - Final word on catching up with veterans

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Final word on catching up with veterans

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
starvoid	Posted - 2006.07.24 11:33:00 - [1] You can go into a completely balanced battle with 458 million skillpoints and still die in a matter of seconds. As demonstrated by Hammer and Tuxford
Crumplecorn Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 11:41:00 - [2] Umm, but this has nothing to do with 'catching up' since both sides had equal skillpoints. ----------
mirel yirrin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 11:41:00 - [3] I demand and Explanation! NOW! --------------------------------- IMAGINE THE GREATEST SIG OF ALL TIME HERE.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 11:44:00 - [4] He is right though. The number of skillpoints hardly ever decides who wins or dies in this game. You will get jammed, face a superior ship or get ganked most of the time. Its not duels here... Just get a group and go out there to fight people, right from the start. You will never have enough skillpoints to win anything except duels because you have more skillpoints. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
lofty29 Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 11:44:00 - [5] Originally by: mirel yirrin I demand and Explanation! NOW! Yesterday, the Q&A Dev team went 5 on 5 with the Content Dev team. They used their dev accounts and all, with maxed skills. The content team got whitewashed --------------------------- Originally by: HippoKing ...I suck at forums
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.07.24 11:50:00 - [6] Well, it depends, a group of 5 1 mil people will most likely get killed by a group of 5 15 mil people. It's of cource a matter of tactics and luck, too, but the same thing applies for a 1v1 duel as well.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 11:56:00 - [7] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/07/2006 11:57:45 Originally by: Aramendel Well, it depends, a group of 5 1 mil people will most likely get killed by a group of 5 15 mil people. It's of cource a matter of tactics and luck, too, but the same thing applies for a 1v1 duel as well. Its not certain. If the group of 1 mill guys use electronic warfare, keeps out of range and uses superior tactics, they will win. The game really isnt so much about skillpoints, its more about pvp experience. Make the other guy not able to do what he wants and you win. Skillpoints say nothing about pvp experience, which is why i often go up towards older players not fearing them at all. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:00:00 - [8] Yes, but the point is this applies both for 1v1 and group PvP. "Just get a group" is no solution here.
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:02:00 - [9] Edited by: Andreask14 on 24/07/2006 12:03:42 Veteran players have a great advantage, there is no doubt about it. Its alittle bad for a game, that you have to deal with the priciple of seniority, just like in real life, but thats economy for you. Luckily, most plyers leave after 7 months, when skill training times become a month long, thus, there are only few true veterans and a whole wealth of newbies. Of course, all really valuable ressources are owned by older players, thanks to a multitude of in-game dynamics forcing this situation, but then again, you can always join one of the alliances and profit from this yourself. Its a little sad that you cant effectively combat a t2 producers ally, as a group of new players, because you just wont have their ISK, but its the name of the game. Same goes for pvp, cant combat snipers without your own, tactics is possibly, but skills really is the key, no doubt. ________________________________________________ Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Aramendel Yes, but the point is this applies both for 1v1 and group PvP. "Just get a group" is no solution here. I didnt know there was a problem to solve. OP is right, everyone dies, and my point is that skillpoints wont save you in a bad situation. Except very rarely. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ling Xiao	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:15:00 - [11] You guys are missing the real issue: Dev smacktalk ftw
Ozzie Asrail Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:22:00 - [12] It'd be a really insteresting stat if the dev's could provide the highest\lowest and average skillpoints in each team from the pvp tournament. I bet there would some interesting findings there. -----
delta2zero	Posted - 2006.07.24 12:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Aramendel Well, it depends, a group of 5 1 mil people will most likely get killed by a group of 5 15 mil people. It's of cource a matter of tactics and luck, too, but the same thing applies for a 1v1 duel as well. your using an extreme example though, if it were 5x 10mil VS 5x 20mil i bet the outcome wouldnt be so obvious the 10mil guys could have better pvp loadouts. if it were an arranged fight then the 20mil guys would obviously have a better advantage as they would know exactly what to fit to complement each others ships and would have a better choice of modules due to there skill points allowing them to use more things. where as the 10mil guys would probably be more specilised towards specific loadouts and not have as much choice when it comes down to ship fitting. imo all skillpoints do after a certain point is allow you to use a larger range of ships/loadouts more effectively but if your just going arround ganking then is that really such a major advantage?
News Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.24 13:13:00 - [14] If you were to pick 5 random 3 month old chars, and either one of the teams from the last 16 of the tourny and made them switch accounts (i.e. the 'noobs' playing the vet's account and vice versa), I'd bet the tourny team playing on young accounts would beat the new players playing with the old accounts. Sure, skillpoints matter. Not as much as experience, knowledge of the game and tactics though.
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.24 13:23:00 - [15] You will die without t2 ships tho, by all means. So, a three month old char wouldnt stand a chance anyway. ________________________________________________ Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are.
Torrence Osti Northern Empire The Big Blue	Posted - 2006.07.24 13:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Andreask14 You will die without t2 ships tho, by all means. So, a three month old char wouldnt stand a chance anyway. And CCP wonders why everyone quits around 7 months.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 14:30:00 - [17] Originally by: Torrence Osti Originally by: Andreask14 You will die without t2 ships tho, by all means. So, a three month old char wouldnt stand a chance anyway. And CCP wonders why everyone quits around 7 months. The ones quitting are failing to understand the skillpoint system. If you have focused your skills in those 7 months to become really good at flying hacs (just an example), you will definently have a good chance of beating an oldtimer in a hac as well. People seem to forget that skillpoints doesnt automaticly make you an experienced pvp'er in this game. In WoW, its like.. level 60, cool, pwnage on everyone not level 60. Its not like that here. Seriously, people are approaching this game wrong. They think its about skillpoints when its really not. And if they want to leave and find some game where oldtimers can kill newbies easily, they are free to do so. But Eve is working perfectly imo.. its much better than WoW or any other game out there. Newbies can group and kill oldtimers if they want to here. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Taurequis Waylander 01	Posted - 2006.07.24 14:44:00 - [18] Hi, I'm a 42 mil sp vet but for pvp I use my 10 mil sp alt. Still beat vets where i need with said alt and personally because I focused my training my alt is a better character to use due to less cost on cloning and it is there to do a certain job (manticore ftw). On Taur id say of that 42 mil sp - 20 mil sp of it is on stuff id never or hardly ever use but have just trained in the past because i used to fill a certain role. High skill point characters tend to lean towards being "jack of all trades" people because of a sheer lack of continous new skills to "specialise" in. This means that doing a certain single thing a certain way any 10 mil sp newer character can be equally as good as a 42 mil sp vet in said area or tactic. Beyond that knowing how to play and who you know is something that is infinately more valuable then any amount of skill points, and is something you can't just buy or e-bay or through game card sales. Best Regards, Taurequis
CT BadIronTree Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.24 14:49:00 - [19] well i have 46 milion skill points with less than half a milion in pvp skills i gess i am a pure carebear so i run like a girl and dont fight ============================================ Colossus Technologies The first and oldest corp in eve! BadIronTree Head of Production CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003: Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic mode. --------------------------------------- playing (or beta testing)since Sat, 2 Nov 2002 16:06 (beta 5) ---------------------------------------
Tristan Acoma Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:19:00 - [20] Edited by: Tristan Acoma on 24/07/2006 15:20:21 This is really simple: In a fight you only have as many skillpoints as the situation and what your equipment allows you to use. If you're using rails and have 3 million Missile skillpoints, guess what? If you're a 20 million SP player, deduct 3 million from that in your consideration, as they don't matter there anyway. Because of the wide varity and depth of skills, total SP mean little - I've run into 20m SP players who can kick butt in T2 frigs ,but put them in a battleship and they get owned by a couple of 5 month old newbs. Specialization and tactics are what wins battles, simple as that.
Peter Armstrong Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:25:00 - [21] oh man what this complaining about? another post saying there should be a boost etc and there Nothing wrong with it. It takes time and dont like it i want ur stuff! deal with it basicly!
Jezeret	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:26:00 - [22] Edited by: Jezeret on 24/07/2006 15:28:14 Why do older players have a slight advantage? That'll be the money I've paid for those extra 6 months. If I'd been here for over a year and seen no improvement for all that training I'd be a bit peeved ;)
Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Jezeret Edited by: Jezeret on 24/07/2006 15:28:14 Why do older players have a slight advantage? That'll be the money I've paid for those extra 6 months. If I'd been here for over a year and seen no improvement for all that training I'd be a bit peeved ;) Horrible logic. If you extend that train of thought, you should be able to buy skillpoints with real life cash. = Suck. Degeneres animos timor arguit Fear reveals ignoble spirits
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Tristan Acoma This is really simple: In a fight you only have as many skillpoints as the situation and what your equipment allows you to use. If you're using rails and have 3 million Missile skillpoints, guess what? If you're a 20 million SP player, deduct 3 million from that in your consideration, as they don't matter there anyway. Because of the wide varity and depth of skills, total SP mean little - I've run into 20m SP players who can kick butt in T2 frigs ,but put them in a battleship and they get owned by a couple of 5 month old newbs. Specialization and tactics are what wins battles, simple as that. QFT. If you are able to choose your fights in such a way to actually use most of your skills, you will effectively bridge the skill gap with the veteran. The older a character is, the greater chance that he has lots of skills he cannot use right now. And as for T2 owning T1 - well, that's true. But the T2 pilot is risking a whole lot more money. Blowing up an insured cruiser with some low-end named modules means losing, what, five millions? Blowing up a HAC... ouch... when you fly T2 in a PvP area you are taking a big risk. Sure, if you run around in a Cerberus you can kill any Caracal you see, but what if you run into a gate camp? What if the Caracal guy comes back with friends? Flying T2 may guarantee victory in a fair one-on-one against T1 ships, but you can never be sure that this is the kind of battle you'll be facing. And you're betting a lot of money on it. -------------------- Do you have a solution to the BM and instas problem? Test it against the bookmark requirements.
Jezeret	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:44:00 - [25] Edited by: Jezeret on 24/07/2006 15:44:20 More economics, I'd say, we pay to keep Eve going, without subscriptions, the company collapses. I'd fully expect someone who's been here longer than me and done the training to have a slight advantage over me. It's sort of like a 'Loyalty to CCP' Bonus. Is it fair? I really couldn't say, but it's not exactly surprising, and it does keep people coming back for more :) Though, I agree, buying SP with real money would indeed suck ;)
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:52:00 - [26] T2 ships are still only as good as their setup. If something happens that you didn't plan for, you can still die a horrible death, even to a tech1 ship .. and a bad player in a t2 ship is still a bad player. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:54:00 - [27] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 24/07/2006 15:54:39 Originally by: Avon T2 ships are still only as good as their setup. If something happens that you didn't plan for, you can still die a horrible death, even to a tech1 ship .. and a bad player in a t2 ship is still a bad player. I concur with Avon. Raptors even get popped by Rifters. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Mortania Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.24 15:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Za Po Flying T2 may guarantee victory in a fair one-on-one against T1 ships, but you can never be sure that this is the kind of battle you'll be facing. And you're betting a lot of money on it. And this is why the commonization of t2 items via the upcoming change is a bad idea. Soon t2 pilots will be risking only a bit more than t1 pilots.
Luc Boye Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.24 16:02:00 - [29] it's not like I have gallente battleship 24.
Verone	Posted - 2006.07.24 16:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Jim McGregor He is right though. The number of skillpoints hardly ever decides who wins or dies in this game. You will get jammed, face a superior ship or get ganked most of the time. Its not duels here... Just get a group and go out there to fight people, right from the start. You will never have enough skillpoints to win anything except duels because you have more skillpoints. I agree, I had an Astarte ganked from underneath me at a gate by a gang of rookies who ECM blobbed me not so long ago. Catching up with the Veterans is not something you need to do. This is a MMOG... MULTIPLAYER. Bring friends VETO RECRUITMENT
Verone	Posted - 2006.07.24 16:04:00 - [31] Edited by: Verone on 24/07/2006 16:05:16 OLOLolololOLol Double post. VETO RECRUITMENT
Angellyne	Posted - 2006.07.24 16:18:00 - [32] One billion ISK says this doesn't turn out to be the "final word".

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.