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D2 offers to sell out YouWhat to GoonSwarm to save face.

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Lorth Synchro.	Posted - 2006.07.27 00:32:00 - [271] Edited by: Lorth on 27/07/2006 00:32:27 Quote: I saw no D2 assistance when it was needed and I saw a lot of Goons when they were requested. But the biggest issue with that whole arguement, is that in order to support Sparta, or for that matter IRON, D2 would have had to set an allie to negitive standings. Frankly thats where whole goon fleet "D2 are an evil oppresive allience" propoganda theroy falls short. I'm a pretty smart person, but I can't imagine a situation where D2 could have lent support to any of the two parties, with out betraying the other. If you see two friends slugging it out, do you jump in and beat the living day lights out of one? No you do your best to stop it. And thats exactly what D2 did, and even got flamed for that, IE the goons release of the TS recording. *Below is made as unbiased as I can possibly be* Well this is embarising for D2, the ammount depends on how you read it, and what you assume. What ever you want to take away from it, is up to what side your on I suppose. And this whole thing certainly doesn't make goon fleet look good at all. I have no idea why you didn't leave this in the box it came in. Poor move IMO. It may get you a few laughs, and some nice propoganda, but in the end, may end up hurting you more then it helps. ------------- Recruit me
Shyalud Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.07.27 00:35:00 - [272] Originally by: Hoegaarden Edited by: Hoegaarden on 26/07/2006 23:14:49 Edited by: Hoegaarden on 26/07/2006 23:14:14 Originally by: Shyalud Originally by: Hoegaarden Edited by: Hoegaarden on 26/07/2006 22:58:56 Edited by: Hoegaarden on 26/07/2006 22:58:11 Edited by: Hoegaarden on 26/07/2006 22:57:58 Yeah I'm an alt. You havn't a brain, so sad. edit: I believe the Goons invite D2 to bring down all their financial might against GS. If D2 has to resort to hiring all the mercs in the galaxy to defeat 'noobfleet' then the GS position is still valid, D2 was a paper tiger, and they will crumble one way or another. Their rise to power was due to nothing more than the collapse of the Five and the betrayal of OSS by Chosen Path and Shyalud. lol, I was looking forward to something good. Same ol' blah, blah, blah really. I already told you: the stupidity, arrogance, and ignorance of your statements and position on the issue has left me unable to deal with you directly. Sorry mate. edit: formatting on eve-o is fun I understand completely, I feel exactly the same way about you. Cheers CHSN High Council Chosen Path Recruitment
sliver 0xD Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.07.27 00:37:00 - [273] Originally by: Kwinn Edited by: Kwinn on 26/07/2006 22:15:46 The fact that goonies stated that they will have/need: 3FA TFC ERA ASCN Alektorophobia SMASH and 4 merc corps And D2 will have what? themselves and maybe IRON ? And goonies think they can take on D2 and win? Looks like the goonies are desperate to call in this many 'allies'. If you want to prove something to the community and show that the goonies are as good as you say you are, do it by yourselves dont use allies to do your work for you. You allied yourselfs to SPARTA and look what happened there, when it come to the crunch no goonies helped SPARTA when D2 stopped SPARTA. So if you allied yourselves with SPARTA but never helped them, what does this mean for your other allies? Either way, prove to us that you are a big bad alliance, and not just a egomanic with a gun. Fight D2 solo, as they are with you or dont fight them at all. Your alliance is a coward, by calling in and hiding behind the bigger alliances like ASCN, SMASH etc. EDIT added the following... Remedial and the rest of the goonies think they should be part of the 'big boys alliance club' If they think they are they should step upto the plate. I say its time they start acting like they are and fight their own battles, and not call in help when they are struggling. i think goons will have litle chance. what goonswarm is trying basicly isnt gone hold for the long run. it suprices me that goonswarm is still trying. a blackhole is, where god divided by zero.
pylons38 Penetrate Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.07.27 00:41:00 - [274] This thread has kept me entertained during my 9 hours at school. lol. Keep it up.
Kadm	Posted - 2006.07.27 00:45:00 - [275] Quote: [ 2006.07.22 00:59:33 ] Remedial > What about other HC members [ 2006.07.22 00:59:37 ] Trillian Dent > I have BPOs T2 of many people [ 2006.07.22 00:59:41 ] Trillian Dent > in oyhter alliances [ 2006.07.22 00:59:44 ] Remedial > Or official D2 people who have something to lose if they break their word [ 2006.07.22 00:59:50 ] Trillian Dent > and if someone wnats it back [ 2006.07.22 00:59:54 ] Trillian Dent > we always give it back [ 2006.07.22 01:00:02 ] Trillian Dent > so I have an integiryt thing here [ 2006.07.22 01:00:26 ] Trillian Dent > the point about the deal is that it's behind the public [ 2006.07.22 01:00:54 ] Trillian Dent > for you 'to win a region' and for us 'to show' [ 2006.07.22 01:01:14 ] Trillian Dent > but let me talk as well to my guys [ 2006.07.22 01:01:29 ] Trillian Dent > and if I get the go we are good [ 2006.07.22 01:01:31 ] Remedial > You're not goign to tell them are you? [ 2006.07.22 01:01:37 ] Remedial > Oh your guys as HC that is? [ 2006.07.22 01:01:39 ] Trillian Dent > if not we spam posses till the nodes ***** [ 2006.07.22 01:02:02 ] Trillian Dent > I am telling one guy [ 2006.07.22 01:02:16 ] Trillian Dent > since he is the only one who knows that I planed ot talk to you [ 2006.07.22 01:02:25 ] Trillian Dent > he is politician [ 2006.07.22 01:02:33 ] Trillian Dent > but I am playing with him since 2 years [ 2006.07.22 01:02:42 ] Trillian Dent > so if we both say go it's a go Doesn't this part imply that this wasn't one person acting alone as so many others in this thread seem to imply?
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.07.27 01:01:00 - [276] I'm willing to bet that GS have just signed their own death warrant. Good luck D2.
Anille Kole Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 01:04:00 - [277] Originally by: Kadm Originally by: Chatlog ... Doesn't this part imply that this wasn't one person acting alone as so many others in this thread seem to imply? It doesn't imply it. It clearly states that he was working with one other unidentified person(who could literally be any one of 100k+ people), but this is essentially the same thing as working alone for the sake of the arguments they used, since most referred to him working alone in the sense of not being connected to the other alliance leaders. ________________________________ Lovable alt. <3
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.27 01:23:00 - [278] Originally by: Eonov Dear oh dear oh dear, in the forum of nothings ever what it seems some1 posts a chat log that can only be fact????. Obviously the wheeler dealing in said log was done with the full blessing of D2 and all allies because to be honest with the goon fleet appearing no longer willing to engage in any decent sized battle they are stuck for propaganda winning options. Also worth noting is the fact that any forwad movement made by the goons isnt actually made by them (/me looks at smash :) ). I have been involved from the start in XZH and dear god iv seen some crap posted about whats happening there and how the battles g. Maybe the goons should consider that if this battle was so beyond our ability to win it we may actually have seen that ourselves and gone by now, but then again, u could also be correct and D2 and allies only sit in xzh and surrounding systems now because we are bored and enjoy killing u endlessly. Dont usually get embroiled in this propaganda pooh but couldnt watch any more crap get posted without a truth injection any opinoins tho are mine alone yada yada yada. /me <3 neo
Shittake RONA Deepspace Process of Elimination	Posted - 2006.07.27 01:26:00 - [279] Originally by: Shyalud Originally by: Kyguard Edited by: Kyguard on 26/07/2006 17:53:46 Originally by: Shyalud I think all you've proven here is that GS is a dishonorable organization and negotiations of any sort with your entity are not possible. There is obviously no respect for the confidentiality required to conduct diplomatic talks with your alliance. You would know. You are practically asking for it with that statement. And to those saying that this is ruining Goonswarm's reputation. Please, this is just showing that Goons are not taking sketchy deals. I would know what, exactly? The basics of diplomacy? The deal itself is not in question, it's the manner in which it was turned down that is. Anyone can make an offer, and anyone can reject an offer. However, rejecting it then running out to the playground making fun of the offer is, well, childish. I agree with the general rule that posting private chatlogs and evemail that were intended to remain private is something that most diplomats would not, and should not do. Let's assume for the moment that the chatlogs are REAL. GOON was approached by D2 with a deal which could be construed as turning against their former alliane mates in YouWhat. After thinking about it, GOOM decided that releasing the chatlog would cause considerable damage to D2's reputation and be a formidable weapon which they could use to futher their longterm goal of destroying D2. It's sorta simple actually - either help tieri enemy D2 save face and remove assetts OR make D2 look like backstabbers and help foment distrust in alliances alligned with D2. Let's assume for the moment that the chatlogs are FAKE. GOON created a fake chatlog in an effort to divide their enemy and make other D2-affiliated alliances scratch their heads and think "we may be next". Remedial may have sat back and thought "screw diplomacy, let's do what it takes to win and divide our enemy". Afterall, in the longrun if GOON can stay together and their pilots mature into good PvPers (which I'm sure they are already on their way to doing just that with all the XZH experience) then there's no need to build a "Secret Diplomacy" reputation because their experienced 2000+ PvP force will eventually steamroll of most anything and not need to talk to anyone about it ahead of time. All I know is that this whole political and military drama is just awesome, regardless of what side you're on.
Randay	Posted - 2006.07.27 02:02:00 - [280] I thought Remedial "stepped down" as CEO? Funny that. No Respect ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Eximius Josari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.07.27 02:18:00 - [281] Oops.
Titinius Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.27 04:08:00 - [282] Interesting. Gona be a long weekend...
CoolKid	Posted - 2006.07.27 04:29:00 - [283] Edited by: CoolKid on 27/07/2006 04:29:29 whoops
indeviduall Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 04:30:00 - [284] Originally by: Randay I thought Remedial "stepped down" as CEO? Funny that. No Respect Someone please put this poor horse out of its misery. It's already been beaten enough, and as far as I know has nothing to do with D2's (hilarious) offer. Funny that.
1Trav1	Posted - 2006.07.27 04:32:00 - [285] img195.imageshack.us/img195/466/1trav1testtq2.jpg Well Trillian Drent first of all you called me a Traitor for doing a cyno in your back door! (that i did all by my self! hmm) Well let me add a few things, D2 got a taist of what its like to turn yr backs on your allies who helped you and was still willing to help! but you sold us out to IRON ect ect at least we had reason you wanted to sell YouWhat down the drain lmao The North is going to Burn and you in it! OMG yr on holiday! looks like rain in the North!!! Respect to Goon's for holding there own! and who ever said about goons doing it on there own sfu, Was it not so long back Iron claimed they are helping D2 NFC was helping you Razor are helping you FLA are helping you,Nexus are helping you core are helping you, might have that 1 wrong. So hey if the goons have friends who's to question it? ps Goons i here dek has some good minning there :) anyone for a cyno :P hey Dangerous you going to hunt Trillian down now ? get yr facts right m8! One last word Trillian TRAITOR.!!!
Deidranna SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.07.27 04:33:00 - [286] Oh the drama d
arjun	Posted - 2006.07.27 05:26:00 - [287] Edited by: arjun on 27/07/2006 05:26:33 things ceertainly get dramatic http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/0607/ohgod.txt
Jingu Himiko	Posted - 2006.07.27 05:31:00 - [288] Originally by: arjun Edited by: arjun on 27/07/2006 05:26:33 things ceertainly get dramatic http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/0607/ohgod.txt you sure are quick on the draw
Maverick McDougel Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.07.27 06:00:00 - [289] Originally by: arjun Edited by: arjun on 27/07/2006 05:44:38 Edited by: arjun on 27/07/2006 05:26:33 things ceertainly get dramatic i was one of the 2 or 3 members of my alliance, which wanted to have a strategic partnership with the goonswarm before the xzh situation. i guess i was wrong. ***i deleted the link just in case the mods would censor the link due to language*** note: the above quoted link has some words other may get offended at. is there anyone who can censor it and re-upload so the mods don't delete it. interesting. can someone verify this? if it is true and remedial said "and we have the willpower to overcome them. And BoB, and everyone else who wants a piece of the Goon pie." i am still scratching my head trying to figure out how Remedial thought BOB would be involved in this. ohh well it's BOB they seem to get involved in everything whether they want to or not.
Cythereon	Posted - 2006.07.27 06:17:00 - [290] Originally by: Maverick McDougel Originally by: arjun Edited by: arjun on 27/07/2006 05:44:38 Edited by: arjun on 27/07/2006 05:26:33 things ceertainly get dramatic i was one of the 2 or 3 members of my alliance, which wanted to have a strategic partnership with the goonswarm before the xzh situation. i guess i was wrong. ***i deleted the link just in case the mods would censor the link due to language* note: the above quoted link has some words other may get offended at. is there anyone who can censor it and re-upload so the mods don't delete it. interesting. can someone verify this? if it is true and remedial said "and we have the willpower to overcome them. And BoB, and everyone else who wants a piece of the Goon pie." i am still scratching my head trying to figure out how Remedial thought BOB would be involved in this. ohh well it's BOB they seem to get involved in everything whether they want to or not. [...] D2 [...] delight [...] me. [...] I [...] afford [...] them [...] **.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.27 07:39:00 - [291] Originally by: welsh wizard I'm willing to bet that GS have just signed their own death warrant. Good luck D2. rofl, That's d2 screwed. Celestial have chosen them as victors. dbp Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Kaldaine	Posted - 2006.07.27 07:50:00 - [292] Originally by: Maverick McDougel i am still scratching my head trying to figure out how Remedial thought BOB would be involved in this. ohh well it's BOB they seem to get involved in everything whether they want to or not. I dont know how you read it like that but its pretty obvious that he is saying GS will not be cowed by anyone, not that he thinks BoB is behind D2. I think its a good read because it shows the exact mentally of a Goonswarm pilot. A pilot who started flying in 0.0 in a rifter while they were laughed at by a veteran in a Vagabond. Every snide comment by that veteran about how the noob will never make it just sticks with him. 99% of GS pilots, current or ex, will always feel the bully looming and come out in support. I would think that this would be a good weekend to be in Goonswarm.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.27 08:46:00 - [293] Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Maverick McDougel i am still scratching my head trying to figure out how Remedial thought BOB would be involved in this. ohh well it's BOB they seem to get involved in everything whether they want to or not. I dont know how you read it like that but its pretty obvious that he is saying GS will not be cowed by anyone, not that he thinks BoB is behind D2. I think its a good read because it shows the exact mentally of a Goonswarm pilot. A pilot who started flying in 0.0 in a rifter while they were laughed at by a veteran in a Vagabond. Every snide comment by that veteran about how the noob will never make it just sticks with him. 99% of GS pilots, current or ex, will always feel the bully looming and come out in support. I would think that this would be a good weekend to be in Goonswarm. so you're implying that Goonswarm is a bunch of people who feel griefed but can't get over it?? do you think these vets weren't flying T1 frigs and died often before they started to fly T2 stuff? that they didn't get laughed when they suicided into a gatecamp? do you really expect that you can go into 0.0 and it will be a paradise for newbies? that you won't get shot by neutrals if you enter their terretory? you'll stay in the lower end of the foodchain 'til you can defend yourself ... this has nothing to do with griefing - that's the GAME. 0.0 is intended to be harsh and cruel. i don't have any problem with GoonSwarm attacking CR - not more problems i would have if any other alliance would do so .. it's only a "mission" in-game to kick out the Goonies from CR - nothing personal at all. but i have a big problem with the shown attitude by Goonfleet. "OMG!1! D¦ are griefers! they are teh ebil and have to be eridicated from EVE!1! as well as the rest of the other griefers!!1" (as stated in Remedials speech) Remedial says D¦ are this type of players who only play if they can win, otherwise they would cancel their accounts ... so please check what happened in EC-P. Did G and TRUST members cancel their accounts because BoB/ASCN destroyed lots of TRUST assets and showed G it's limits? Ask those who fought in this battle and who are the bigger bullies? those who are trying to defeat an hostile alliance in terms of the game (for any reason they want?) .. or those who request to grief an alliance 'til all their members leave the game? now that's the question i have to Goonfleet ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Bluestealth Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 10:28:00 - [294] Originally by: pershphanie The lowest possible minimum standard for a diplomat is to know the difference between things that should and shouldnt be said in chat logs. If someone is a big enough moron to type stuff like that ingame then it's completly fair game. When you need to have convos like this they should always happen on TS while you are looking at your ts window to make sure they are not recording. [/quote How do you know they are not recording TS? the red light doesnt mean ****, if I want to record your TS convo there are other ways. There is no way to communicate that doesnt leave something behind. TS convo's are more damning too, because even if other people in eve don't know your voice, EVERYONE in your corp/alliance does.
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:50:00 - [295] looks like goonswarm are in for more fun in CR and OR (i think this is the time tho that BOB may need to pop up because with GS getting stronger its on BOBs borders and we know BOB do not like strong neighbours. That said we can see some stress within GS and pirate crews and smaller PVP outfits might use this opportunity to sneak up on GS borders for some pressure to keep the war up on 2 3 or 4 fronts.
Trak Cranker	Posted - 2006.07.27 11:57:00 - [296] Originally by: HostageTaker Originally by: Nari Teko --------------------------------------------------------------- Channel ID: 2110232583 Channel Name: Private Chat (alone) Listener: Nari Teko Session started: 2006.07.26 04:27:49 --------------------------------------------------------------- [ 2006.07.26 04:27:51 ] Nari Teko > yo genro [ 2006.07.26 04:27:56 ] Nari Teko > i am going to post this chatlog on eve-o [ 2006.07.26 04:28:00 ] Nari Teko > so just say something great then get out [ 2006.07.26 04:28:08 ] genro > what the ** do you want/who are you [ 2006.07.26 04:28:12 ] Nari Teko > ok get out [ 2006.07.26 04:28:16 ] Nari Teko > get out of this convo [ 2006.07.26 04:28:17 ] Nari Teko > NOW [ 2006.07.26 04:28:31 ] Nari Teko > he has now left the convo HHAHAHAHAHHAH O M F G!!! This chatlog was funnier than the D2 ones! LMAO!!! "[ 2006.07.26 04:28:08 ] genro > what the ** do you want/who are you" Random convos + yelling at confused people 4TMFW!! Oh god can't stop laughing! This wins the forums for a week. I have tears running down my face from laughing. :)
Pride NL Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:23:00 - [297] Posting logs stays lame. Summarise it!
Varban II Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:26:00 - [298] Edited by: Varban II on 27/07/2006 12:29:38 Edited by: Varban II on 27/07/2006 12:27:52 Without trowing much oil into this fire, I don't aggree with the statement that most diplomats will not divulge secret communications. It's done all the time, the only times when it isn't done is when both parties are satisfied with the secret agreement. This is not the case here, D2 approached GS with an offer. Since GS is unhappy with the offer they have full right to divulge it. Propaganda was and still is a powerful tool. Making GS look strong and D2 look weak is the whole point of this. Would GS have accepted the deal, we would have never known how the conflic actually got resolved. Also this concept of betraying friends is brough up over and over again. Seems people forget the sublte difference that there are no real friends in politics. Only interests, while two partie's interests go together they form an alliance, when those interest take their own path the alliance is broken and when those interests collide they go to war. Sure personal friendship favour the development of common interests, but I am sure you all remember the letters exchanged between the German Kaiser and the Russiam Emperor, how did it go again, "Dear Nicky, I am afraid if things go like this we will go to war, even if you are my cousin in law" Apart from all the 10 year olds, the rest of the people surely remember the many examples of history to understand this, YouWhat and D2 don't share common interests. Why do you think STV left D2? STV HQ is in CR, D2 was pulling out of it. Of course they will say they remain in good terms, but remaining in good terms means they won't go to war and nothing more. Anyway thats my 2.5 cents on the topic. Friends and Politics are uncomfortable bedfelows. PS: This statment is my own and does not reflect the position of Chorus of Dawn! Edit: Paragraphing ...
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.07.27 12:41:00 - [299] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: welsh wizard I'm willing to bet that GS have just signed their own death warrant. Good luck D2. rofl, That's d2 screwed. Celestial have chosen them as victors. dbp
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:02:00 - [300] So it appears that the Goons plan to blob out the system ECP8R-style in a effort to finally prevail. Their massive numbers couldn't lag the system 23/7 on their own, so they are calling upon another 2000+ member alliance, and a bunch of other helpers to add additional strain to the node. Congrats Goons. If your plan goes off as advertised, you will certainly gain control of the system. Not because you are superior, or because you have bested D2 with your military might. It will be because you have made it nearly impossible to enter the system, much less fight back. If D2 are akin to the CS player complaining about hacking, as your say, Goons are the CS players that stack teams and camp their spawn.

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