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How alliances die, and BoB vs. GoonSwarm

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James 315 Tactical Enterprise Group LTD The Imperial Order	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:02:00 - [1] It's a shame that all of the drama has been overshadowing what promises to be a very interesting fight, one which many of us have been looking forward to seeing. We've heard both sides of the drama enough, I think. In this post I would like to discuss how an alliance is actually destroyed in Eve, and whether/how BoB can really destroy GoonSwarm. Some say that alliances are destroyed when one side makes people from the other side quit the game, or by doing enough economic damage to bankrupt them. I disagree. I think alliances are destroyed when corps take advantage of the fact that they can easily switch to another alliance. When one alliance dominates the battles, destroys enough POS's, and camps enough to convince the other side's corps that they are a member of a "losing" alliance, and that the game would be more fun if they switched to an alliance that can defend itself...the corps will leave and the alliance dissolves. In my theory, an alliance won't die even if a lot of damage is done to it, so long as the battles are not one-sided enough to convince corps they're better off switching alliances altogether. Killing a corp would be similar, convincing members to switch corps, but since corps can simply take refuge in the big alliances, destroying a corp can be nearly impossible. This brings us to BoB versus GS. GoonSwarm is different from other alliances, because it is basically just one huge corp. Yes, there are non-Goon corps in GS, but their departure would be irrelevant. The traditional alliance dynamic doesn't apply, so destroying GS would be like trying to destroy a corp. But supposing GS got annihilated on the battlefield, would it take refuge in a larger alliance? I think this is doubtful (although the power dynamics of GoonFleet joining ASCN would be very interesting). GS is also distinct from a corp. As I said, to destroy a corp you must convince its members they would have more fun in a different corp. But are Goons from SomethingAwful really going to think they would have more fun elsewhere? They live inside of their own little world, and for many of the Goons, the only reason they came to Eve is to play with the other Goons. Under the normal rules for destroying a corp or alliance, then, it would be extremely difficult to dismantle GoonSwarm. One possibility may be a split in GS. It is a large alliance and has a variety of different kinds of people, even if the image of hyperactive, manic bees predominates. Is it possible that a series of humiliating GS defeats would induce members of GS to split, following someone other than Remedial? We know there are a lot of Goons who dislike Remedial, but for the most part it seems Goons don't care who leads them so long as they get to fight alongside their Goon bretheren. Unlike an "alliance" in real life, an alliance in Eve cannot be physically forced to dismantle; you must persuade the member corps to do it. Thus wars are largely psychological, which is why many alliances find it useful to use forum propaganda. I find it difficult to believe GS could be persuaded to split apart, although if a real alternative to Remedial shows up and gathers support, this is possible. Otherwise, I think BoB can drive GS back into empire and claim victory. GS could move on to another part of the galaxy, farther from BoB's reach, and I doubt the vendetta would go as far as BoB hunting GS everywhere, making an overstretch of their resources and putting its territories at risk to other alliances. That's my prediction, at least.
Whiskey Juvenile GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:07:00 - [2] I think one of us made a post along these lines like four months ago when we first starting having the "omg goonfleet" threads. I guess our secret is out.
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:08:00 - [3] The only way to destroy a corp or Alliance is if you break it's morale. Wether or not one side could do this to the other remains to be seen. If it does, I very much doubt it would happen on the battlefield though.
Azrael Bierce Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:09:00 - [4] I just hope all the various entities that claim to hate BoB and all it stands for take this war as an opportunity to attack the BoB regions. I doubt a better opportunity will come up. Could be interesting, bloody, times in the W/NW.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Ismern on 28/07/2006 16:11:00 This is going to start into another flame war. Neither side will "destroy" the other. The worst I forsee is things going poorly and GS losing XZH. However, considering the fact that all of this happened on a whim and without any preparation, the mere fact that our alliance composed mostly of people under 6 months old stayed this long makes this entire campaign a victory in mind. Should we lose XZH, you can be rest assured we'll be back. EDIT: I agree with Hast up there. No more GoonSwarm vs. BoB threads. ----------------------------------------------------------- "It's not that I'm lazy . . . It's that I just don't care."
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:10:00 - [6] please just stop with the goon vs BoB threads, the matter is to volatile... currently hibernating
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:11:00 - [7] All Goonswarm has to do is fall back to S-U. If bob tries to push them out of there they will lose billions and billions of isk while being repeatedly swarmed with t1 frigs and cruisers.
Pergly GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Hast please just stop with the goon vs BoB threads, the matter is to volatile...
EvilNate Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:12:00 - [9] Break morale and corps start dropping out, when enough corps drop out, they can't defend as well and you can start to watch your friends dissapear too. Eventually the alliance disbands. Look what happened to Sparta.
Azairen GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:12:00 - [10] Goodbye.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:17:00 - [11] Originally by: James 315 Some say that alliances are destroyed when one side makes people from the other side quit the game, or by doing enough economic damage to bankrupt them. I disagree. I think alliances are destroyed when corps take advantage of the fact that they can easily switch to another alliance. When one alliance dominates the battles, destroys enough POS's, and camps enough to convince the other side's corps that they are a member of a "losing" alliance, and that the game would be more fun if they switched to an alliance that can defend itself...the corps will leave and the alliance dissolves. I agree with this as a general description of "destroying an alliance", i.e. that they disband and scatter. But since victories need to be announced on forums, male internet egos tend to blur this simple occurence. (this applies to merc/empire/pirate wars as well) The victor will shout that the enemy was vanquished, villages torched and soil strewn with salt. The loser will remark "gg guys, we had fun, little smack, got bored now, moving on to other things" and the truth will be somewhere in between. You can't really destroy anyone in Eve but you can make them give up. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:17:00 - [12] This is an eloquent, accurate theory, and I agree with your points. Most of what is done to wreck an alliance occurs at the psychological level, and many of the normal 'rules' for doing so don't apply to the Swarm. That said, we've all had enough BoB vs Swarm threads. Let's move on.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:17:00 - [13] Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 16:25:35 Even in an absolute worst-case scenario, where BoB somehow managed so many repeated crushing victories that every goonfleet member quit the game, we'd just all go play Age of Conan together or something for a while and let our characters mature. We'd all leave the game and go do something else together before we went through a corp split. Our community is stronger than anything any number of forum trolls can stir up, and larger than any single game. The guys I'm playing Eve with now, I played WoW with two years ago and, hell, in some cases, Ultima Online ten years ago (or however long it's been). I don't think that'll happen, frankly, because if things got anywhere near that bad we could fund our war just off of reselling t2 loot, we've done it before, and we've done it against "elite" groups who thought they were unbeatable. We'll see how everything plays out.
BuSHiDo ZiN GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Azrael Bierce I just hope all the various entities that claim to hate BoB and all it stands for take this war as an opportunity to attack the BoB regions. I doubt a better opportunity will come up. Could be interesting, bloody, times in the W/NW. Won't happen, it's much easier to hate someone and brood in your own corner of the universe than it is to actually go out and attack them. I think BoB seriously underestimates the drive of goonswarm, and if they think they're going to have a decisive victory in weeks or even months, they're sorely mistaken. They're wandering into a vietnam. That said, I call upon everyone in this thread to call anyone who brings up "that topic" a Dundering Poodleneck
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:22:00 - [15] Originally by: BuSHiDo ZiN They're wandering into a vietnam./quote] Keep thinking that.
Jholo Artei GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:25:00 - [16] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: BuSHiDo ZiN They're wandering into a vietnam./quote] Keep thinking that. Keep exploiting the death of your friend for your videogame amusement.
BuSHiDo ZiN GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Jholo Artei Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: BuSHiDo ZiN They're wandering into a vietnam./quote] Keep thinking that. Keep exploiting the death of your friend for your videogame amusement. YOU ARE A DUNDERING PODDLENECK CHRIST
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:26:00 - [18] Originally by: EvilNate Break morale and corps start dropping out, when enough corps drop out, they can't defend as well and you can start to watch your friends dissapear too. Eventually the alliance disbands. Look what happened to Sparta. This is, in fact, true. However, 90% of the GoonSwarm membership are in "one corp" divided by Sovereignty. ----------------------------------------------------------- "It's not that I'm lazy . . . It's that I just don't care."
BuSHiDo ZiN GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:27:00 - [19] Edited by: BuSHiDo ZiN on 28/07/2006 16:26:59 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: BuSHiDo ZiN They're wandering into a vietnam. Keep thinking that. Keep thinking that it won't be.
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:29:00 - [20] Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 28/07/2006 16:29:27 Originally by: Jholo Artei Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: BuSHiDo ZiN They're wandering into a vietnam./quote] Keep thinking that. Keep exploiting the death of your friend for your videogame amusement. Quite honestly its GS that keep bringing that up now and whining about it just let it drop. Seriously why does it take 5 GS everytime to reply to one comment. BOB might not kill your alliance but if they put everything they have behind it like someone else has said about FA/NORAD they will cripple you so you are no longer the alliance you once were.... and I hope they do.
Darus Xarin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:30:00 - [21] don't feed the trolls. close this post please mods
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:31:00 - [22] Edited by: The Mittani on 28/07/2006 16:32:22 Just saw that sig. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded. Dianabolic is clearly in no position to be telling anyone what to think, given his views on this game. Internet: Serious Business!
The Anointed Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:33:00 - [23] Originally by: BuSHiDo ZiN Edited by: BuSHiDo ZiN on 28/07/2006 16:26:59 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: BuSHiDo ZiN They're wandering into a vietnam. Keep thinking that. Keep thinking that it won't be. BoB has no internal media to loose the war for them, so its not going to be anything like vietnam. (Not that I was there) Both alliances have one thing in common, way too many people eager to blow stuff up and cause mayhem. Should be fun to watch.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Traxio Nacho Quite honestly its GS that keep bringing that up now and whining about it just let it drop. You're right, at this point we should let it drop too. I think everyone who's willing to see our side of things has had a chance to do so by now.
Cockeyed	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:36:00 - [25] They have WMD's, we must strike first... Famous Last .....
Snowden Vel GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:36:00 - [26] On an unrelated note, these forums have some of the worst software I've ever seen!
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:37:00 - [27] Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 28/07/2006 16:32:22 Just saw that sig. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded. Dianabolic is clearly in no position to be telling anyone what to think, given his views on this game. Internet: Serious Business! From that quote, mittani, which of us has more of a problem dealing with the real world than the other?
Snowden Vel GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 28/07/2006 16:32:22 Just saw that sig. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded. Dianabolic is clearly in no position to be telling anyone what to think, given his views on this game. Internet: Serious Business! From that quote, mittani, which of us has more of a problem dealing with the real world than the other? THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:44:00 - [29] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz All Goonswarm has to do is fall back to S-U. If bob tries to push them out of there they will lose billions and billions of isk while being repeatedly swarmed with t1 frigs and cruisers. Quite true. However, falling back to S-U would be Goonswarm failing to take Cloud Ring, which they've invested massive amounts of time effort and ISK into. Would it cause the death of the alliance? I don't know, I don't think it will. But it will have a greater or lesser effect on their playerbase, it could drop significantly. But only time will tell. But it could make them stronger I guess, more determined so that when they do strike out for space again they do it better.
insolace GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:48:00 - [30] Edited by: insolace on 28/07/2006 16:48:22 I've been posting on the somethingawful forums since 2001, the people I play with in eve are people who I have been laughing with and c-rack-ing (they filter "*****? wtf") jokes with for a long time now. I've been to countless local goon meets and even a few international ones. The time we had 400 goons running around in las vegas causing havoc will surely be an epic memory for years to come. I dated and shared an apartment with a goon for over two years. Why would I ever fight alongside with anyone in this game other than a goon? I'm considered a casual goon by our community standards, there are many people much more dedicated to the cause than I. The only way you'll get me to leave goonswarm is when I cancel my EVE subscription. If you want proof of the solidarity of goons and a good prediction of how stable an organization we are, go take a look at the history of goons in Star Wars Galaxies, I believe we completely dominated that game/server by the time we all left due to extreme boredome.
Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:53:00 - [31] Edited by: Wodin Drukvik on 28/07/2006 16:53:34 Originally by: James 315 Yes, there are non-Goon corps in GS, but their departure would be irrelevant. The rest of your post is interesting(and I won't comment one way or t'other as I'm rather biased). This statement, however, is patently false. While the sheer numbers may make it look like our smaller non-Goon corps are irrelevant, the truth is that this is anything but the case. They're good, trustworthy companions who I would be genuinely saddened to see go. Finding allies in EVE is always a dicey proposition, and those who are willing to accept the growing pains of a new alliance and all the attendent mistakes, drama, and general noobishness that we display on a regular basis is more valuable still. Edit: oh god I fail at forums software.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:53:00 - [32] BoB could push us out of syndicate with maybe a couple months worth of their entire alliance camping every station and gate in lower syndicate 23/7. Not trying to flame or anything, but that is my honest assesment of "what it would take".
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:57:00 - [33] Well, I think we all know what it takes. Question you should be asking is if you've made serious enough enemies that are considering going all the and break you up both from inside and outside. Oh and remember this. New friends are made easily in this game. Alot will simply not consider it worth the hassle if the game is not fun anymore. Keeping it fun can be a major hassle when your comms lines are broken and all you pay for is "spin the ship" in a station.
Moab Nos Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:01:00 - [34] Edited by: Moab Nos on 28/07/2006 17:02:05 I feel that with the help of D2, RAZOR, and Youwhat (because even if they're not setting them +, I'm sure everyone realizes that they won't actively engage eachother) BoB might be able to keep us from conquering XZH. If that should happen it's no big deal, we didn't expect to even get this far this early on a few months ago. But destroying Goonfleet? Impossible. Should this corp fail, a new one will be started weeks or months later. I don't like the minority that acts like maladjusted idiots when not controlled by the rules of the SA forum, but I love the rest enough to say that I'll be part of all the other goons flocking to it.
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:01:00 - [35] Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 28/07/2006 16:48:51 It looks like GS won't be eliminated on the battlefield. They operate like BoB themselves only on their earlier stages. As it looks as BoB are trying not to defeat, but to destroy GS they will have to try somethign different than fleet battles and POS shooting. BoB understands it too, and that's why they came out with their negative PR campaign, trying 1-st to delegitimize GS and to portrait most GS memebrs and especially leadership as dishonest, arrogant, untrustworthy, etc, etc. Why this was needed? Why not to go out to war, just saying: we think GS will become too much of a problem in the near future, so that we'll take care of it right now, before we'll have 1000 man HAC gangs on us. The broad hint was given by one of BoB members in one of the numerous threads on this topic. BoB won't be fighting a conventional war here. They say they are fighting outlaws, dishonorable ppl, so that ANY tactics are justified. This was the reason for this negative PR compaign, to say that if the enemy is so distastefull and dishonorable, then we can use everything agaibst him. Espionage, sabotage, corp theft, possible sabotage of forums and TS, destroying the image of some of GS key leaders - everything goes. You cant' justify those things if you fight just another alliance, but you can try to do this if you accuse your opponent of being the total scum (and that's what BoB do all the time). This shows us 1 clear thing BoB are here to "win" Eve and they will use any tactic neccessary, with the keyword ANY, if they will feel seriously threatend. Seriously where do you come up with your stuff? Take your "I HATE BOB" banner and go wave it somewhere else. Where have BOB said they will use out of game tatics to destroy GS or is this just more anti BOB stuff like all the other posts you make?
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:05:00 - [36] Originally by: Fred0 Oh and remember this. New friends are made easily in this game. Alot will simply not consider it worth the hassle if the game is not fun anymore. Keeping it fun can be a major hassle when your comms lines are broken and all you pay for is "spin the ship" in a station. Your post proves yet again that most of the eve-o community doesn't get what we consider fun. Perhaps it's the obsession with kill/loss ratios, or the feeling that your ship isn't totally expendable. If the Swarm gets to send wave after wave of fanatics in suicide frigates at people like you and send you e-raging into the void, cursing g00n n00bs and pressing your petition button so fast that you break it, you can bet we'll be having fun. ^_^
dabster Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:07:00 - [37] Here's a clue to the goonies: BOB has been (ab)using any means needed for a goal, since.....yea, forever. Nobody can count the numbers of times they have been accused of dirty tricks cheating and h4xing, stop thinking you are in any way special, because you aren't. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:09:00 - [38] Edited by: The Mittani on 28/07/2006 17:09:20 Originally by: dabster Here's a clue to the goonies: BOB has been (ab)using any means needed for a goal, since.....yea, forever. Nobody can count the numbers of times they have been accused of dirty tricks cheating and h4xing, stop thinking you are in any way special, because you aren't. After D2 has spent a month aktivating petitionbooster on us, it's not really a shock. Big alliances don't like it when newbies don't bootlick and kowtow to the 'mighty'. They merely tried to out-whorum us, and no one- no one- can win a forum battle against goons.
Zarimax Mishka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:19:00 - [39] We attacked Cloud Ring on a whim û months ahead of schedule û because a group of goons were acting like goons and took a pot shot at a station they thought they couldnÆt do damage to. By the end of that month, and with no experience in conquerable space, we owned two systems in Cloud Ring and had blown up 15 capital ships. An entire crop of newbies now has volumes of experience with POS warfare, dreadnaught sieges, and the mechanics of conquerable space. These are people who are brand new to EVE. Look at those dreadnaught kill mails. Look up the characters who are on them. Look at the age of those characters. Do you think people who have been playing EVE for less than a month and are now on a dreadnaught kill mail are going to flake off or will they instead develop an even deeper and more enduring loyalty to the alliance? Whoever comes out on top in GoonSwarm versus BoB, I find it hilarious that our little dreadnaught killers have to ask ôwho is this Bob guy anyway?ö
larann Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:20:00 - [40] Originally by: The Mittani They merely tried to out-whorum us, and no one- no one- can win a forum battle against goons. Agreed, although pure nonsence spam maybe doesnt count. The amount of utter crap in the thread that was removed and hasnt come back was unreal, and about 90% (maybe more) was from your guys. On the utterly useless word of many of your own: Goodbye. (now i'm cool )
Avernus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:22:00 - [41] Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 28/07/2006 17:09:20 Originally by: dabster Here's a clue to the goonies: BOB has been (ab)using any means needed for a goal, since.....yea, forever. Nobody can count the numbers of times they have been accused of dirty tricks cheating and h4xing, stop thinking you are in any way special, because you aren't. After D2 has spent a month aktivating petitionbooster on us, it's not really a shock. Big alliances don't like it when newbies don't bootlick and kowtow to the 'mighty'. They merely tried to out-whorum us, and no one- no one- can win a forum battle against goons. Define winning a forum battle. Is it getting in the last word, or is it swaying the majority opinion of the community? If it's the first, I'm confident you'll win everytime. If it's the actual altering of public perception towards your favor.... Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Tiwaz Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:23:00 - [42] ive had enough of these bloody treads about the most boring ppl playing our great great game of EVE. T1 frig bl0bs bore the hell out of me and prolly all the rest pvp lovers of EVE. The Goonnies can mine all they want in whatever remote place they chose. Or better yet find someother game where they can play with their E-lovers. I hope to god, that their vile gameplay dont come more in fasion. fecking ****ers. tiw
agent apple Syndicate Of Shadows	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:25:00 - [43] Originally by: insolace go take a look at the history of goons in Star Wars Galaxies, I believe we completely dominated that game/server by the time we all left due to extreme boredome. And here in lies your achilies heel. The fact that EvE has a large veteran player base who dont want to see a group of people such as GS get control over the game. Lots of people hate BoB, better the devil you know seems to sum it up though.
Zarimax Mishka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Tiwaz ive had enough of these bloody treads about the most boring ppl playing our great great game of EVE. T1 frig bl0bs bore the hell out of me and prolly all the rest pvp lovers of EVE. The Goonnies can mine all they want in whatever remote place they chose. Or better yet find someother game where they can play with their E-lovers. I hope to god, that their vile gameplay dont come more in fasion. fecking ****ers. tiw I'm sorry about your Megathron. 35- is a dangerous place.
fmercury Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:29:00 - [45] Originally by: Avernus Define winning a forum battle. Is it getting in the last word, or is it swaying the majority opinion of the community? Apparently it's getting the most words.
Tiwaz Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:29:00 - [46] Originally by: Zarimax Mishka Originally by: Tiwaz ive had enough of these bloody treads about the most boring ppl playing our great great game of EVE. T1 frig bl0bs bore the hell out of me and prolly all the rest pvp lovers of EVE. The Goonnies can mine all they want in whatever remote place they chose. Or better yet find someother game where they can play with their E-lovers. I hope to god, that their vile gameplay dont come more in fasion. fecking ****ers. tiw I'm sorry about your Megathron. 35- is a dangerous place. lol what a wee little tit you are if you think loosing a ship do anything to me. But yes.. ill rather go down fighting than lagged to hell do you lot. tiw
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:31:00 - [47] Originally by: The Mittani They merely tried to out-whorum us, and no one- no one- can win a forum battle against goons. ... You seriously think your forum spam is helping?
Vena Saris Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:31:00 - [48] Originally by: Stamm Quite true. However, falling back to S-U would be Goonswarm failing to take Cloud Ring, which they've invested massive amounts of time effort and ISK into. Would it cause the death of the alliance? I don't know, I don't think it will. But it will have a greater or lesser effect on their playerbase, it could drop significantly. But only time will tell. But it could make them stronger I guess, more determined so that when they do strike out for space again they do it better. Don't forget the same thing will go to D2 and BoB or any other alliances that are involved in this conflict as well. As far as I know, D2 spams (or committed if you will) more POS than Goonswarm, they loss more capital ships than us and they're the one keep losing its allies, but I'm sure you know better than me. If it takes so many alliances, so many excuses, so many backstabbing, just to get rid of us from this region, so be it. In fact, since NORAD and D2 didn't quite live up to our expectation, and now BoB joins the game, we're currently more excited than ever. I sincerely hope everyone can stop name calling or using other as an excuse to invade us, that's quite childish and disappointing. I hope everyone will enjoy this battle, one way or another.
Snowden Vel GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:32:00 - [49] Edited by: Snowden Vel on 28/07/2006 17:32:37 Originally by: fmercury Originally by: Avernus Define winning a forum battle. Is it getting in the last word, or is it swaying the majority opinion of the community? Apparently it's getting the most words. Well I hope it's not scored by making the most bitter posts, because you've got that on lockdown.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Vena Saris and they're the one keep losing its allies, but I'm sure you know better than me. Check again.
Alvinas GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:35:00 - [51] I'll spare the rest of the community going on what most of the other goons have said already and leave with this: As of yesterday goons have begun to a new game. A game with our own rules. Thus far in Eve that has been something that has only caused failure for others. Despite what you all say, we are different--and always have been. We no longer play by your rules. We no longer require your approval. We play our own game, and only time will show you the difference.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Joerd Toastius You seriously think your forum spam is helping? Did you seriously just post without using bold text?
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:37:00 - [53] Originally by: The Mittani Originally by: Joerd Toastius You seriously think your forum spam is helping? Did you seriously just post without using bold text? ...
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: The Mittani They merely tried to out-whorum us, and no one- no one- can win a forum battle against goons. ... You seriously think your forum spam is helping? Heh, if nothing else, every single other issue set aside, the idea of BoB guys complaining about somebody else's forum whoring is pretty funny :P I do think explaining ourselves has helped, yes. If we'd just sat back and let BoB misrepresent us, nobody on this forum would've had a fair or complete picture. By posting and explaining ourselves, our opinions and our actions, people have had a chance to see both sides. A lot of people are going to refuse to take that chance, for one reason or another, but that's outside our control.
Moghydin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Traxio Nacho Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 28/07/2006 16:48:51 It looks like GS won't be eliminated on the battlefield. They operate like BoB themselves only on their earlier stages. As it looks as BoB are trying not to defeat, but to destroy GS they will have to try somethign different than fleet battles and POS shooting. BoB understands it too, and that's why they came out with their negative PR campaign, trying 1-st to delegitimize GS and to portrait most GS memebrs and especially leadership as dishonest, arrogant, untrustworthy, etc, etc. Why this was needed? Why not to go out to war, just saying: we think GS will become too much of a problem in the near future, so that we'll take care of it right now, before we'll have 1000 man HAC gangs on us. The broad hint was given by one of BoB members in one of the numerous threads on this topic. BoB won't be fighting a conventional war here. They say they are fighting outlaws, dishonorable ppl, so that ANY tactics are justified. This was the reason for this negative PR compaign, to say that if the enemy is so distastefull and dishonorable, then we can use everything agaibst him. Espionage, sabotage, corp theft, possible sabotage of forums and TS, destroying the image of some of GS key leaders - everything goes. You cant' justify those things if you fight just another alliance, but you can try to do this if you accuse your opponent of being the total scum (and that's what BoB do all the time). This shows us 1 clear thing BoB are here to "win" Eve and they will use any tactic neccessary, with the keyword ANY, if they will feel seriously threatend. Seriously where do you come up with your stuff? Take your "I HATE BOB" banner and go wave it somewhere else. Where have BOB said they will use out of game tatics to destroy GS or is this just more anti BOB stuff like all the other posts you make? Actually I do not hate BoB, I do not hate anything in the game. Hate is too strong of a feeling to apply to anything in a computer game. You've asked for a proof, you'll get it. The thread is locked so I can't post a link to it I guess, but I'll give you a direction. Thread is called "Curiosity from a neutral observer". The post is number 292, on page 10. Post by Rebellion of Evolution[BoB].
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:39:00 - [56] Originally by: Calenth I do think explaining ourselves has helped, yes. I thought SA was supposed to be good at this stuff... Oh well. Your grave.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:41:00 - [57] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Calenth I do think explaining ourselves has helped, yes. I thought SA was supposed to be good at this stuff... Oh well. Your grave. Oh god, more threats of doom from a D2 guy. It's over now! Jita, veldspar ahoy! Can't you tell? I'm positively shivering with internet fear here.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:42:00 - [58] Originally by: fmercury Originally by: Avernus Define winning a forum battle. Is it getting in the last word, or is it swaying the majority opinion of the community? Apparently it's getting the most words. The funny part is that you are better friends with firstname lastname than anyone posting here.
Vince Draken Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:43:00 - [59] Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 28/07/2006 16:48:51 It looks like GS won't be eliminated on the battlefield. They operate like BoB themselves only on their earlier stages. As it looks as BoB are trying not to defeat, but to destroy GS they will have to try somethign different than fleet battles and POS shooting. BoB understands it too, and that's why they came out with their negative PR campaign, trying 1-st to delegitimize GS and to portrait most GS memebrs and especially leadership as dishonest, arrogant, untrustworthy, etc, etc. Why this was needed? Why not to go out to war, just saying: we think GS will become too much of a problem in the near future, so that we'll take care of it right now, before we'll have 1000 man HAC gangs on us. The broad hint was given by one of BoB members in one of the numerous threads on this topic. BoB won't be fighting a conventional war here. They say they are fighting outlaws, dishonorable ppl, so that ANY tactics are justified. This was the reason for this negative PR compaign, to say that if the enemy is so distastefull and dishonorable, then we can use everything agaibst him. Espionage, sabotage, corp theft, possible sabotage of forums and TS, destroying the image of some of GS key leaders - everything goes. You cant' justify those things if you fight just another alliance, but you can try to do this if you accuse your opponent of being the total scum (and that's what BoB do all the time). This shows us 1 clear thing BoB are here to "win" Eve and they will use any tactic neccessary, with the keyword ANY, if they will feel seriously threatend. Seriously, you need to see a doctor about that hardon you have for BOB. Ever since your thread accusing BOB of cheating in the tournament you've tossed **** onto everything BOB related. You don;t even understand how we operate, you know nothing. So please, go back to your corner and stfu. The above thoughts and statements are IC and should be taken as such.
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:44:00 - [60] Originally by: fmercury Apparently it's getting the most words. 2000 people just had their switches changed from "Don't post" to "Post carefully" to "Post freely" in a few days. I'm really not suprised at the flood of posts.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:47:00 - [61] Originally by: Moghydin Actually I do not hate BoB, I do not hate anything in the game. Hate is too strong of a feeling to apply to anything in a computer game. Yeah, the saddest thing about this whole mess is that fighting BoB is going to entail fighting people who obviously have totally lost perspective on the differences between real life and a game, to the point where their entire identities are wrapped up in their e-dominance and video game vengeance seems like an appropriate reaction to a percieved real-life insult. It'll be like fighting with Crazy Grandma, you have to feel sorry for her even in the middle of the fight.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:48:00 - [62] Originally by: The Mittani Your post proves yet again that most of the eve-o community doesn't get what we consider fun. Perhaps it's the obsession with kill/loss ratios, or the feeling that your ship isn't totally expendable. If the Swarm gets to send wave after wave of fanatics in suicide frigates at people like you and send you e-raging into the void, cursing g00n n00bs and pressing your petition button so fast that you break it, you can bet we'll be having fun. ^_^ I love how you think your special. You are not the only 10 year old community in this game and alot of people are perfectly aware of how SA works and are even members. Even if they don't play with you.
Ayane Vendre Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:56:00 - [63] Originally by: Fred0 I love how you think your special. You are not the only 10 year old community in this game and alot of people are perfectly aware of how SA works and are even members. Even if they don't play with you. "The word most hits you 37,000 damage"
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 17:58:00 - [64] Originally by: Ayane Vendre Originally by: Fred0 I love how you think your special. You are not the only 10 year old community in this game and alot of people are perfectly aware of how SA works and are even members. Even if they don't play with you. "The word most hits you 37,000 damage" qft i lol'd irl lmaotbh
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:00:00 - [65] Second Fred's comment - I'm part time PA, I know exactly what you guys are like, and frankly I've dealt with worse. Your only defining characteristics are that you're big and (unlike people like GameFaqs) you know how to turn caps lock off - otherwise you're a pretty average "adolescent geek" community.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:00:00 - [66] Originally by: Fred0 I love how you think your special. You are not the only 10 year old community in this game and alot of people are perfectly aware of how SA works and are even members. Even if they don't play with you. But we are unique butterflys Goonfleet is mostly a mixture of gbs and D&D, with a suprising dose of "hate ozma" thrown in. Essentially we're special because we're the gbs drooling contingent being hearded by the self important d&d gang. And you know how it works out when gbs tries to be fyad when they're off SA? yeah.
Tonkin Omega Corp	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:03:00 - [67] i have no idea why bob are attacking goons, my therory there bored nothing to shoot downsouth no more. my experiance with the goons has shown that they have the best comuity of players around. the guys are blood thirsty love fighting and dont care if they loose ships different type of enemy bob will have to face here. but never the less ITS GOING TO BE SOOOO MUCH FUN IN CLOUD RING bring it on will kill anythin for the right price
Hawkings SJ Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:04:00 - [68] Saying "E-" or "Internet" before words doesn't make them into powerful insults, or even valid points. Or, as you might call them, e-points of internet-validity.
Jargoon GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:04:00 - [69] Originally by: Tiwaz The Goonnies can mine all they want in whatever remote place they chose. Or better yet find someother game where they can play with their E-lovers. Sweet bro, we choose Cloud Ring (and Outer Ring, and Syndicate, and ...)
Dragerest Total Warehouse Logistics Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:06:00 - [70] over and over goons say they are not afraid. ok that it good to hear. shut up and fight you ***** about people smacking on the forums. Goons smack the most. if you don't want to hear about or see more Goon thread don't post in the threads. Goons are the lowest life INGAME. and to Phrixus zephyr, factor beam and fnky twn if respecting someone or a group of people is "brown nosing" you have the cleanest nose of all. you respect no one, have no honor, have no self respect, or alliance respect.
Moghydin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:06:00 - [71] Edited by: Moghydin on 28/07/2006 18:10:36 Originally by: Vince Draken Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 28/07/2006 16:48:51 It looks like GS won't be eliminated on the battlefield. They operate like BoB themselves only on their earlier stages. As it looks as BoB are trying not to defeat, but to destroy GS they will have to try somethign different than fleet battles and POS shooting. BoB understands it too, and that's why they came out with their negative PR campaign, trying 1-st to delegitimize GS and to portrait most GS memebrs and especially leadership as dishonest, arrogant, untrustworthy, etc, etc. Why this was needed? Why not to go out to war, just saying: we think GS will become too much of a problem in the near future, so that we'll take care of it right now, before we'll have 1000 man HAC gangs on us. The broad hint was given by one of BoB members in one of the numerous threads on this topic. BoB won't be fighting a conventional war here. They say they are fighting outlaws, dishonorable ppl, so that ANY tactics are justified. This was the reason for this negative PR compaign, to say that if the enemy is so distastefull and dishonorable, then we can use everything agaibst him. Espionage, sabotage, corp theft, possible sabotage of forums and TS, destroying the image of some of GS key leaders - everything goes. You cant' justify those things if you fight just another alliance, but you can try to do this if you accuse your opponent of being the total scum (and that's what BoB do all the time). This shows us 1 clear thing BoB are here to "win" Eve and they will use any tactic neccessary, with the keyword ANY, if they will feel seriously threatend. Seriously, you need to see a doctor about that hardon you have for BOB. Ever since your thread accusing BOB of cheating in the tournament you've tossed **** onto everything BOB related. You don;t even understand how we operate, you know nothing. So please, go back to your corner and stfu. That's what 1 of your own members said, so what do you want from me At 1-st, I didn't even think about it tbh.
Tonkin Omega Corp	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:08:00 - [72] goons defend there allies buddy, d2 spit on theres i need to find that recoring of d2 threatening sparta aobut the wars up north i disliked bob untill i met D2 D2 are worse than bob will kill anythin for the right price
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:13:00 - [73] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Second Fred's comment - I'm part time PA, I know exactly what you guys are like, and frankly I've dealt with worse. Your only defining characteristics are that you're big and (unlike people like GameFaqs) you know how to turn caps lock off - otherwise you're a pretty average "adolescent geek" community. I don't know what a PA is, and I'm not sure if the "dealt with worse" comment was a compliment or an insult, but I believe that the average goon is university educated and in his mid-20s. We are pretty geeky, but we've done some cool things. When some of our members were going to fight in afghanistan they wern't issued adequate body armour. Despite the forums being pretty evenly split between pro and anti war, we rallied behind our own and raised enough money for the squad being commanded by the goon to have the proper armour. I believe that one of the drivers lives was saved because of this armour, but don't quote me on that. Every year money is raised to provide orphan kids with presents at christmas. A life threatening operation one member needed (my memory says kidney operation) was funded almost entirely by SA. FYAD saved someones life when they were going to commit suicide - I don't know the details of that one. When hurricane katrina hit, the forums went down and Lowtax replaced the front page with a fundraiser, I forget how many thousands of dollars were raised but it was substantial. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure other online communities have done similar good deeds in the past, and that SA is not unique in this regard. But I think you're missing a lot of the picture to sterotype goons as "adolescent geeks", sure theres a lot of things that people find offensive said on the forums, but in my experience whilst what is said and drawn and posted on the forums can often be offensive, what is actually DONE is generally good. SA is definitely not somplace to go if you don't have a thick skin, but I'd advise just about everyone to go check it out and form their own opinions of the place. It's pretty much common sense that if you try to pidgeon-hole ANY community of nearly 80 000 you're going to get it wrong for thousands and thousands of people.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:15:00 - [74] Originally by: Hawkings SJ Saying "E-" or "Internet" before words doesn't make them into powerful insults, or even valid points. Well, let's consider the target audience: In response to a comment about nerd rage: Originally by: Frothing BoB guy your a ***** moron, define nerd, do they kickbox, weight train, go running, do the marathon, work hard, socialise, you *** !! In response to a laffo video space game comment: Originally by:** Very Serious BoB guy What you say on the internet is just as real as real life. Think about that next time. And let's not even get into Dianabolic's treatise on how EVE 'is' real life. For some reason, if you point out that this whole business takes place in INTERNET SPACE, BoB goes absolutely ballistic. Perhaps this is because so much of their real life self-image revolves around pretty pixelated spaceships. It's like a 'high end' raiding guild in WoW: same level of delusion about the border between reality and the game, but with lasers instead of elves and orcs.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:17:00 - [75] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Second Fred's comment - I'm part time PA, I know exactly what you guys are like, and frankly I've dealt with worse. Your only defining characteristics are that you're big and (unlike people like GameFaqs) you know how to turn caps lock off - otherwise you're a pretty average "adolescent geek" community. Shows how much you know. I laugh everytime someone assumes we are pre-teen, or adolescents because we are new in the game. We did a poll on it once but I'm too lazy to go dig it up for exact results. Anyone familiar with us knows that most of us are either in the workforce, or in college. I'm on teamspeak every day and I have yet to hear someone who sounds "adolescent". One of the reasons we don't take this game so seriously is that we aren't teenagers pretending to be grown ups running a corporation. Some of us run companies in real life and like to take a break from "serious business" when we get in game.
Marko Debreault 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:19:00 - [76] Originally by: Avernus Define winning a forum battle. Is it getting in the last word, or is it swaying the majority opinion of the community? If it's the first, I'm confident you'll win everytime. If it's the actual altering of public perception towards your favor.... <3 Avernus. If the definition is the latter, and I am an average representative of public opinion, than the goons are losing this forum war. The Goons seem to take some pride in being an insular community. They're coming off as some kind of club that is here with us but playing a different game. Originally by: The Mittani ...many of the normal 'rules' for doing so don't apply to the Swarm. Originally by: Calenth Our community is ... larger than any single game. Originally by: The Mittani Your post proves yet again that most of the eve-o community doesn't get what we consider fun Originally by: Alvinas As of yesterday goons have begun to a new game. A game with our own rules. Thus far in Eve that has been something that has only caused failure for others. Despite what you all say, we are different--and always have been. We no longer play by your rules. We no longer require your approval. We play our own game, and only time will show you the difference. People who have won the forum wars are groups like Burn Eden, who kill a ton and use ECM and stabs, and so are easy to hate, but post intelligently and with humor - so you begin to respect the player on the other side of the internet. The MC are always good humored and light hearted, and are excellent fighters - they win public opinion in game and on the forums. BoB break even. They have so many posters, but some are quite brilliant, like Molle, and some are just kind of there, and some make me want to war dec their alliance (before the time is ripe, I mean.) Goonswarm are an elitist group who seem to say they don't care what we think because of their out of game relationships and history. They're not doing themselves any favors. There is always room for repair, but thats how they come across to me, right now. The forums are a quagmire, and as GS has proven with breathtaking ineptness, a misstep on the forums leads to in game consequences. I am pretty excited about this conflict. BoB has committed. They're not sitting back and waiting for all comers any longer - they're (over?)extending themselves, and the big target they painted on themselves looks bigger and better than ever.
LoxyRider Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:20:00 - [77] Cant help laughing at all this e- stuff when it comes from a group that pay to belong to a internet forum :/.
Lacero Callrisian Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:20:00 - [78] Originally by: The Mittani And let's not even get into Dianabolic's treatise on how EVE 'is' real life. It's ok, SA is real life too :) THUS IS THE SHAME OF CCP
Marn Prestoc Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:21:00 - [79] To go back to my corp mates post... (which had valid content, if we have to moderate what we say to stop trolls we would never say anything. Simple thing is to ignore the trolls, drown them out with valid and sensible comments). I think destroying and beating a enemy are different things. Destroying an alliance or corp into dispanding is the ultimate "win" and the hardest thing to achieve. If you take destroying as meaning removing its assets and making it move to another area it is a much more achievable goal. Sure they could keep comming back but if the domination can be sustained the thought of "well lets try somewhere else then come back" can easily slip into mind. As someone else said its about moral, not only that but leadership and determination. These can be instilled in different ways, its the leaders job to find what drives there people best. Of course another cruitial factor is fun because this is a game after all, if its no fun fighting/hauling/ect for what you are then moral will suffer, you don't really have to worry about RL troops having fun (except during relaxation periods away from the lines). The same sort of principles with frontline and R&R could be applied in game, letting people go do something else elsewhere then getting them back to do the hard grafting. If you require everyone to do what they're told then splits could form easier. The actual reasons from wars are always debatable, it depends what side/view you have. At least in the game we get open knowledge which places like China and North Korea don't have in real life.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:21:00 - [80] Originally by: The Mittani And let's not even get into Dianabolic's treatise on how EVE 'is' real life. No no, please, please do so - tell us how the inet is not real life, how it is "different" to everything else we experience. Please, tell us, how this experience we have has NO bearing to the world in which we live, I think you are on to something here, mittani, please do go on before you lose your train of thought. How, exactly, do you wish to demonstrate my ineptitude in conversing with the goons?
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:23:00 - [81] Originally by: Crivens Edited by: Crivens on 28/07/2006 18:16:50 Originally by: Joerd Toastius Second Fred's comment - I'm part time PA, I know exactly what you guys are like, and frankly I've dealt with worse. Your only defining characteristics are that you're big and (unlike people like GameFaqs) you know how to turn caps lock off - otherwise you're a pretty average "adolescent geek" community. I don't know what a PA is, and I'm not sure if the "dealt with worse" comment was a compliment or an insult, but I believe that the average goon is university educated and in his mid-20s. We are pretty geeky, but we've done some cool things. When some of our members were going to fight in afghanistan they wern't issued adequate body armour. Despite the forums being pretty evenly split between pro and anti war, we rallied behind our own and raised enough money for the squad being commanded by the goon to have the proper armour. I believe that one of the drivers lives was saved because of this armour, but don't quote me on that. Every year money is raised to provide orphan kids with presents at christmas. A life threatening operation one member needed (my memory says kidney operation) was funded almost entirely by SA. FYAD saved someones life when they were going to commit suicide - I don't know the details of that one. When hurricane katrina hit, the forums went down and Lowtax replaced the front page with a fundraiser, I forget how many thousands of dollars were raised but it was substantial. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure other online communities have done similar good deeds in the past, and that SA is not unique in this regard. But I think you're missing a lot of the picture to sterotype goons as "adolescent geeks", sure theres a lot of things that people find offensive said on the forums, but in my experience whilst what is said and drawn and posted on the forums can often be offensive, what is actually DONE is generally good. This is by no means a complete list, just the things I personally was there for or know about well. SA is definitely not somplace to go if you don't have a thick skin, but I'd advise just about everyone to go check it out and form their own opinions of the place. It's pretty much common sense that if you try to pidgeon-hole ANY community of nearly 80 000 you're going to get it wrong for thousands and thousands of people. and sup tonkin. I hope all our allies know that as long as they continue to play the game with us, they will have our support. Goons look after their own. If you are all such generous and nice people, then why do you act like total assclowns when you come into our community? Nemo me impune lacessit
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:24:00 - [82] Originally by: Dianabolic No no, please, please do so - tell us how the inet is not real life, how it is "different" to everything else we experience. The internet is a part of real life. A small part. What's sad is when people lose perspective and start thinking that pixels in a video game have earth-shattering importance, importance enough that real-life relationships are just fodder to be manipulated for video game dominance.
Jibrelle	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:26:00 - [83] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: The Mittani And let's not even get into Dianabolic's treatise on how EVE 'is' real life. No no, please, please do so - tell us how the inet is not real life, how it is "different" to everything else we experience. Please, tell us, how this experience we have has NO bearing to the world in which we live, I think you are on to something here, mittani, please do go on before you lose your train of thought. How, exactly, do you wish to demonstrate my ineptitude in conversing with the goons? Nerd rage itt
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:31:00 - [84] Originally by: Calenth Originally by: Dianabolic No no, please, please do so - tell us how the inet is not real life, how it is "different" to everything else we experience. The internet is a part of real life. A small part. What's sad is when people lose perspective and start thinking that pixels in a video game have earth-shattering importance, importance enough that real-life relationships are just fodder to be manipulated for video game dominance. Indeed it is, I, and I think most if not all, of bob agree with you. So, that being a given... Why teh bloody hell are you lot complaining when we use the SAME mechanics of this GAME to allow us to REACT against somethign YOU have said? Seriously, I'm a bit lost - you all say that this is <insert pathetic> or that it's "omg real life", but you're whining more than anyone else. Mind explaining why?
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:32:00 - [85] Originally by: Sochin If you are all such generous and nice people, then why do you act like total assclowns when you come into our community? mostly we only act like assclowns in "your" community when we're dragged into it in a way that drastically misrepresents and insults us. We were happilly keeping things separate and making every effort not to offend anyone . . . until people started going out of their way to take offense at us, no matter what we did or how hard we tried to prevent or apologize.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:33:00 - [86] Originally by: Calenth Originally by: Dianabolic No no, please, please do so - tell us how the inet is not real life, how it is "different" to everything else we experience. The internet is a part of real life. A small part. What's sad is when people lose perspective and start thinking that pixels in a video game have earth-shattering importance, importance enough that real-life relationships are just fodder to be manipulated for video game dominance. Dude, we're playing a game here. Its not like we're marshalling a real OOG army to come hunt your members down. Invading and destroying alliances we don't like is what we do. You keep trying to claim that we've lost our perspective and let video games influence RL, or something (I'm quite confused about what your point is). We've attacked alliances for killing a single frigate of ours unprovoked. We've attacked alliances because they were rude to us. We've attacked alliances just because we thought it would be a laugh. I don't see how we've "lost perspective" by deciding to kill you in the basis that you insulted the memory of our friend and then acted like petulent children on the forums all day. Nemo me impune lacessit
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:33:00 - [87] Originally by: Crivens stuff Originally by: Toffles more stuff Like I said. Average "adolescent geek" community, just bigger than usual. (Yes, I did read all the stuff you wrote, yes, it's all very laudable, no I don't find any of it particularly surprising.)
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:35:00 - [88] The only thing that would really irk me if we lose XZH due to BoB support will be that D2 will claim the whole victory as theirs. It would've been nice if this whole fiasco could've waited a week or two so we could at least humiliate D2 first. Oh well no big deal.
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:35:00 - [89] Originally by: Toffles I'm on teamspeak every day and I have yet to hear someone who sounds "adolescent". Even Armois?
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:35:00 - [90] Originally by: Sochin If you are all such generous and nice people, then why do you act like total assclowns when you come into our community? I said that in my post you quoted. What we say and write on our forum is quite different from the actions we take in real life. We have fun on our forum, mess around, we treat newbies relatively badly, people who should know better and make mistakes even worse. But none of that is real, and when something that really matters comes around, goons tend to rise to the occasion. Theres a distinction between the you that flys a spaceship around and the you that eats breakfast with your wife every morning. At least, I certainly hope that there is. Again, I also never claimed we were all angels. Recall what I said about there being 80 000 of us. Goons have done and will do things that I disagree with, and many more things that most would disagree with but that i'd find hilarious. Some of those may even be as "real" as faciliating a life saving operation, but nothing comes to mind right away. Don't take the internet seriously, man. You can ALWAYS walk away from your computer; real life is somewhat harder to switch off.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:36:00 - [91] Originally by: Dianabolic Indeed it is, I, and I think most if not all, of bob agree with you. So, that being a given... Why teh bloody hell are you lot complaining when we use the SAME mechanics of this GAME to allow us to REACT against somethign YOU have said? Seriously, I'm a bit lost - you all say that this is <insert pathetic> or that it's "omg real life", but you're whining more than anyone else. Mind explaining why? Because it seems like a ridiculous overreaction, especially in combination with the fact that we all repeatedly apologized, we just have a hard time believing you're seriously offended and not engineering this whole thing as a tactic. It seems crazy, like (as I've said before) somebody swearing vengeance on me and then exacting that vengeance by trying to beat my mario kart score. If you're all really offended by things said about real life, we've explained that we didn't mean to offend, we've apologized, and if you want to be reasonable adults about things you can accept the apology and we can move on from there. But swearing VIDEO GAME VENGEANCE over real life offense just seems silly, at best a drastic overreaction and at worst just flat-out unbelievable.
Xanetia Ravenfrost	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:36:00 - [92] Originally by: agent apple Originally by: insolace go take a look at the history of goons in Star Wars Galaxies, I believe we completely dominated that game/server by the time we all left due to extreme boredome. And here in lies your achilies heel. The fact that EvE has a large veteran player base who dont want to see a group of people such as GS get control over the game. Lots of people hate BoB, better the devil you know seems to sum it up though. I am a regular member of Goonswarm, yet I never post here. I assure you this is my main character. Who gives veteran players the right to tell us what we can and can't do? When it is alright for an alliance to exist with a CEO named Backdoor Bandit with no recourse, yet our members are openly hassled for any jokes at all on our own forums where is the single standard? There isn't one. Here's the deal. I think what is the most hillarious thing here is that neither of these two alliances want XZH, they just don't want us to have it. Why? Because we don't meet their standard for living in 0.0? Because we owe allegiance to no one but ourselves? Come off it. It's hard to take the moral high ground when you're interests are largely self-serving and judgemental of new players doing something never before accomplished in the game - starting out in 0.0 right from the get go. I am totally sure that the majority of Goonswarm could care less about BoB or any other corp, but all they are doing is picking a fight with the nerdy kid in class no one likes who's taking karate lessons. Sure, he may be easy to push around now, but 2 years from now (if not sooner) he's going to be a monster and after he breaks a few bones no one will mess with him ever again. What's going on behind the scenes is that the bully is trying to get the kid to stop coming to school altogether. Well, it's not going to happen, because the bully has no idea what even motivates that nerdy little kid. At first I was kind of depressed because hey, all this war and strife is interrupting my ability to get shiny new ships and mine in peace. Now that I see the big picture of turning this game on it's ear, I'm a lot more excited. It's like the desire and thrill to go pirating in lowsec, but on a magnitude far larger. Sure, you may pod us back to station, but while we're there we get some good kills in and keep coming back. The trial by fire we endured as newbies in Syndicate from every two-bit corporation and D2/RZR ganksquad, along with every other person coming by to take a potshot at a harmless frigate learning how to mine or navigate their ship, has only made us stronger as a group. Oh look, another corp wardecced us. This type of thing simply has no weight when you've faced down the concentrated might of D2 for weeks on end. The past 5 weeks of conflict have brought the best out in our members. Some lose sleep to make sure we always have a convoy to travel with on the way to the front. Directors take newbies like me on a Complex run just because we won't shut up about wanting to run it, or doing a ton of boring stuff so people can have fun fighting the good fight. Members donating their time, money, materials, and equipment to the cause. Convoying up to help newfound allies try and save their homeland even though everyone pretty much knew it was a one-way trip. I wish I could say I put in enough time to be a part of alot of but even I feel motivated to help how I can. One thing is unique about Goonswarm - people are always thinking about each other, and to have that level of respect for anyone in the alliance pretty much across the board - well that's pretty spectacular. I wouldn't trade this alliance for any other alliance, no matter how many SP they have, because they rock that much. Victorious or not, we will have broken the status quo in EVE for all eternity.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:37:00 - [93] Originally by: Sochin Dude, we're playing a game here. Its not like we're marshalling a real OOG army to come hunt your members down.. I've seen real-life threats posted by BoB members over this. If it's been just a game all along, then this whole DRAMA IM OFFENDED thing never should've been brought up in the first place. If it isn't just a game, then somewhere in there you guys lost perspective.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:37:00 - [94] Originally by: Anti Derivative The only thing that would really irk me if we lose XZH due to BoB support will be that D2 will claim the whole victory as theirs. It would've been nice if this whole fiasco could've waited a week or two so we could at least humiliate D2 first. Oh well no big deal. Last time I checked, us 'arrogant newbs' daring to blow up 13 of their dreadnoughts kind of smacks of humiliation to me. If they weren't so humiliated, they wouldn't be desperately petitioning everything in sight.
Eximius Josari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:38:00 - [95] Dianabolic is sounding a touch...out of touch. Anyway, any alliance that doesnt exist as a 0.0 entity is dead. Because the whole point of alliances in Eve is taking 0.0 space.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:38:00 - [96] Edited by: Crivens on 28/07/2006 18:44:27 Originally by: Joerd Toastius Like I said. Average "adolescent geek" community, just bigger than usual. (Yes, I did read all the stuff you wrote, yes, it's all very laudable, no I don't find any of it particularly surprising.) I don't get why you're calling us an adolescent community then, when you don't find it suprising that we're not adolescents. EDIT: or even that some of our members go off to war, we have one who is relatively highly ranked in the pentagon and has posted some excellent picture-tour threads (pre-vetted for security concerns) many members earing hundreds of thousands of dollars/pounds a year. Ex convicts, prison guards, ex homeless, currently homeless. Pilots, doctors, far too many lawyers, at least three university professors, thousands of post-graduate students. ****** addicts, published novelists, actors, post op transexuals oh god the variety. Or are you calling our behaviour adolescent? If so thats ok, I guess. Personally I wish I was five years old again and could spend my summers playing football down in the park. Morgages genuinely suck. Acting adolescent on the internet as escapism is a poor substitute, but it'll do.
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:38:00 - [97] Edited by: Anti Derivative on 28/07/2006 18:43:29 Originally by: The Mittani Originally by: Anti Derivative The only thing that would really irk me if we lose XZH due to BoB support will be that D2 will claim the whole victory as theirs. It would've been nice if this whole fiasco could've waited a week or two so we could at least humiliate D2 first. Oh well no big deal. Last time I checked, us 'arrogant newbs' daring to blow up 13 of their dreadnoughts kind of smacks of humiliation to me. If they weren't so humiliated, they wouldn't be desperately petitioning everything in sight. yeah but striking them from xzh would be more humiliating ^_^ EDIT: why did i use past tense!
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:39:00 - [98] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Sochin If you are all such generous and nice people, then why do you act like total assclowns when you come into our community? I said that in my post you quoted. What we say and write on our forum is quite different from the actions we take in real life. We have fun on our forum, mess around, we treat newbies relatively badly, people who should know better and make mistakes even worse. But none of that is real, and when something that really matters comes around, goons tend to rise to the occasion. Theres a distinction between the you that flys a spaceship around and the you that eats breakfast with your wife every morning. At least, I certainly hope that there is. Again, I also never claimed we were all angels. Recall what I said about there being 80 000 of us. Goons have done and will do things that I disagree with, and many more things that most would disagree with but that i'd find hilarious. Some of those may even be as "real" as faciliating a life saving operation, but nothing comes to mind right away. Don't take the internet seriously, man. You can ALWAYS walk away from your computer; real life is somewhat harder to switch off. This is not SomethingAwful. This is Eve-Online. Eve-Online is a MMORPG. That means that when you annoy people, they can take ingame action against you. This is part of what makes the game fun. Nemo me impune lacessit
Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:40:00 - [99] Originally by: Sochin If you are all such generous and nice people, then why do you act like total assclowns when you come into our community? That's the problem. For every decent, well-mannered poster like Crivens there's an asshat who thinks being as edgy and tasteless as possible is funny. Unfortunately, one of the consequences of being the giant agglomeration is we have both the good and the bad, and have to work with that fact. Lighthearted frivolity is what started Cloud Ring, and tastelessness and braggadicio are what started the current conflict. With as many people who play, all of these traits end up coming to the fore. I'll be honest - I owe Goonfleet a debt for making the game a fun place to play. The standard Goonfleet newbie has more opportunity than many EVE players ever have. I wouldn't be here(many would say this is a good thing) were it not for Goonfleet. At the same time, I can't help but be saddened by seeing the irresponsible actions of my corpmates who lack the respect to be polite. The current situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth personally, but I would be a worse person were I to abandon those people who helped make the game fun because of those idiots who try to spoil it.
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:41:00 - [100] Originally by: Hawkings SJ This newest fad of labeling everything and everyone who is "against" you as "e-(negative word/concept)" or "internet-(negative word/concept)" to me is no different then using ALL CAPITAL WORDS + SARCASM or the latest catch phrase...which Chuck Norris would deliver in a fatal head blow. I have to agree that I think the 'SERIOUS BUSINESS' argument (which when said means that you are saying that the person is taking something on the internet completely seriously whilst you are being totally cool, calm and disconnected) is an incredibly stupid one, mostly used by people who don't want to admit that they are just as invested into a game as the people they are trying to insult. Originally by: Sochin Dude, we're playing a game here. Its not like we're marshalling a real OOG army to come hunt your members down. Or so we think....
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:42:00 - [101] even if you won't believe it - EVE has it's own society. and tbh - what defines "real"? social interactions define our own reality. there's no difference in experience if this interaction happens in a virtual world/the internet or our physical world. you can't say: "social interactions in the physical world are better than social interactions in a virtual space" - you can only say: "social interactions in the physical world are different from those in a virtual space" ... the interactions are different - but the value of the experience is the same. so if you're thinking this is only a game where everyone is only manipulating polygons, you're plain wrong. you're interacting with other social entities (i won't say person in this case as it is imho a too narrow description) ... it doesn't (or at least: shouldn't) matter what your physical appearance is ... only thing that counts in this social space of this virtual world are your actions and your interactions. for example - my name in the physical world doesn't matter in this social space as no one would know me ... my name in this community is Ishquar ... and yeah - it's a bit funny when i meet some friends in RL and we're using our in-game names - but it doesn't matter ... because names are only placeholders. interactions in EVE are as real as in the physical world, though they are different - they're real. that's all i have to say ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:42:00 - [102] Originally by: Dragerest over and over goons say they are not afraid. ok that it good to hear. shut up and fight you ***** about people smacking on the forums. Goons smack the most. if you don't want to hear about or see more Goon thread don't post in the threads. Goons are the lowest life INGAME. and to Phrixus zephyr, factor beam and fnky twn if respecting someone or a group of people is "brown nosing" you have the cleanest nose of all. you respect no one, have no honor, have no self respect, or alliance respect. Says the man who I just found out, is in the same group of people with a anti-Jewish name. Der Ewige Jude ring a bell?
Thoreau	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:43:00 - [103] Originally by: Sochin I don't see how we've "lost perspective" by deciding to kill you in the basis that you insulted the memory of our friend and then acted like petulent children on the forums all day. Just so long as you have fun trying. If you're trying to make us repent for something we never did (like some of your more ignorant alliance members), then it probably won't be fun. Luckily I think you just want to have fun shooting internet spaceships and I realized I do as well. Good luck to you sir.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:44:00 - [104] Originally by: Crivens Or are you calling our behaviour adolescent? If so thats ok, I guess. I'm glad you approve
Ayane Vendre Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:44:00 - [105] Edited by: Ayane Vendre on 28/07/2006 18:45:27 No they arent, they're virtual. Just because they affect you doesnt make it real. If aeris dying made you shed a tear(I BET IT DID AND ALL), did that make her real? If <insert character> dying in <insert soap> made you sad, did it make that character real? gtfo emo.
J'tarel Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:52:00 - [106] I dont want BoB involved in XZH because i dont want Goon claiming they got thier asses handed to them because BoB attacked. In all my dealings with Goon, I have always respected what they were trying to achieve in the game, taking newbs into 0.0. I always thought they simply accepted thier losses as part of the fun, but now they're beginning to sound delusional. I have lost one ship to goon in some 200 goon kills, but always admired thier commitment to fighting.. however pretending that goon is somehow capable of fighting with any effectiveness in 0.0 without being propped up by alliances like Smash reveals that thier losing perspective. I have no view on the issue at hand between GS and BoB, but what I will say is BoB are top of the line PvP, to fight them is both a pleasure and a genuine test of ones skills in this game. Goading them, shouting at them or arguing with them only increases thier commitment to destroying you. Finally, goons singular strength, given its lack of skill (young characters etc) is the mega blob... you've just gone and ****** off the one group of people in this game who not only can out blob you but do so with immense skill and insane firepower. I wish you luck, but seriously stop poking them if you want to keep your limbs. The interesting thing about BoB, whether you see them as the Eve boogy man or not, is that they tend to fight you the way you deserve. If you fight them with bravery, flair and commitment, they will enjoy the fight and be most civil. If your an asshat, and smack and SS and run etc etc.. they'll fight hard, dirty and brutal till your picking your teeth up with your toes, your hands already broken in 15 places. Choose how you fight them well, they are perhaps the best adrenaline rush there is in the game.
Alessia Karan Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:53:00 - [107] Originally by: Crivens Theres a distinction between the you that flys a spaceship around and the you that eats breakfast with your wife every morning. At least, I certainly hope that there is. How exactly are those two different ? When you look in the mirror while playing EvE you don't see the same person as when you look in the mirror while eating breakfast ? Are you sure you are not the one suffering from multiple personality syndrome ?
arjun	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:53:00 - [108] Originally by: Anti Derivative The only thing that would really irk me if we lose XZH due to BoB support will be that D2 will claim the whole victory as theirs. It would've been nice if this whole fiasco could've waited a week or two so we could at least humiliate D2 first. Oh well no big deal. i personally pretty much hope, that bob doesnt come to xzh bevore the matter is settled. we need our fleet and want to keep it the matter will be settled til monday or even before. the deciding action took place some days ago and will reap its results within the next days. so the bob actions from today on will be of little consequence to the outcome in cr, except if they want to come in as a thinrd party to the dance.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:53:00 - [109] Originally by: Ayane Vendre Edited by: Ayane Vendre on 28/07/2006 18:45:27 No they arent, they're virtual. Just because they affect you doesnt make it real. If aeris dying made you shed a tear(I BET IT DID AND ALL), did that make her real? If <insert character> dying in <insert soap> made you sad, did it make that character real? gtfo emo. ahem ... were you interacting with this character?? it seems you don't get the concept of interaction ... even if the stuff which surrounds the interaction is virtual (aka bits and bytes) - the interaction which takes place is real. it seems i have to quote Anthony Giddens. Quote: Social interaction is the process by which we act and react in relation to those around us. Anthony Giddens - Sociology. p.80 it doesn't matter if you can only interact through words, pixels etc. or if you're looking in the face of the other ... or would you say a telephone call isn't an interaction?? ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:54:00 - [110] Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Calenth Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth? Surely what you claim we're trying to do, is akin to beating your mario kart score... on sonic the hedgehog? You've (your idiot group) has insulted someone we GREW UP WITH in this game. You grew up with someone online? How did you guys go ride bikes together? Play a game of pool? Go out to the pub, oh wait, too young. Please, if your bestest friend in the world is text on a computer screen, you have some issues. Yep, that must be it. Out of interest, do retards like yourself get reading lessons, or do they leave you to illustrate your lack of the ability to read all on your own?
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:56:00 - [111] Originally by: Dianabolic Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth? Surely what you claim we're trying to do, is akin to beating your mario kart score... on sonic the hedgehog? You've (your idiot group) has insulted someone we GREW UP WITH in this game. You NEED to take a step back. I refuse to believe that this is healthy. A friend of yours is dead. In real life. And in return for someone making jokes in terrible taste about him (I know he was talking about the bandwagon calenth, but it doesn't matter for the sake of this argument) you're going to shoot some spaceships. PLEASE realise why this is not healthy behaviour. At best it is anti-social and at worst it is psychotic and faintly delusional.
Eximius Josari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:57:00 - [112] Originally by: Dianabolic @Eximius - when you can drag yourself out of empire to participate in such discussions all you're currently doing is making your future, hopeful, entry, even more difficult. I doubt that BoB will be making our 0.0 plans difficult. You are too busy biting off more than you can chew.
Alessia Karan Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:58:00 - [113] Originally by: FATE LOL You grew up with someone online? How did you guys go ride bikes together? Play a game of pool? Go out to the pub, oh wait, too young. Please, if your bestest friend in the world is text on a computer screen, you have some issues. I guess that thats the whole problem, you see people in this game only as text on a computer screen. I really do wonder, how exactly do you think that some other person playing this game is less real then for instance somebody that passes you on the street ?
Ayane Vendre Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:58:00 - [114] Originally by: Dianabolic So you'd suggest we take this to real life? Yes, and if you cant you move on. I seriously think bringing it into a game cheapens what happened, and while whatever SA did(dont know what they said in local, dont want to) was stupid, crass, unthoughtful and for a lot of people morally incomprehensible, using "FOR SMOSKE" as a rallying cry is as crass, if not worse. (Yes, I know half of BoB say it has little to do with Smoske, but the other half say the exact opposite.)
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:58:00 - [115] Originally by: Alessia Karan Originally by: Crivens Theres a distinction between the you that flys a spaceship around and the you that eats breakfast with your wife every morning. At least, I certainly hope that there is. How exactly are those two different ? When you look in the mirror while playing EvE you don't see the same person as when you look in the mirror while eating breakfast ? Are you sure you are not the one suffering from multiple personality syndrome ? Back in the early 80's D&D had to put on a warning on it's games that you are ROLEPLAYING and you really aren't that person. CCP needs to do the same with EVE I think. You are ROLEPLAYING. This isn't real. Keep the two apart.
Hawkings SJ Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:01:00 - [116] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: LoxyRider Cant help laughing at all this e- stuff when it comes from a group that pay to belong to a internet forum :/. You pay to belong to an internet game, don't you? And the reason no one should take the internet seriously is because if you did, you'd go insane. And if you can't see the difference between flying your ship around the galaxy whilst drunk with your mates blowing up other ships, and going out in the sunshine to buy a paper from the corner shop - why one's real and one isn't, then I suggest you take a break from the game for a while and spend some time with your wife and kids. Go take them for a nice break in the country, you'll have a great time and they'll all really apreciate it. What occurs in a game may not be real, but enjoying the fiction is. There is really no difference between playing a online space game and reading a science fiction book, nobody believes the events in either actually, physically, occur...but that doesn't mean you can't get real enjoyment from both. I have never heard anyone, on the forums or in game, say that they beleive the events occuring in the game are actually happening somewhere out in space right now. I have heard people argue that when you play a persistent world MMORPG, the impact you have on world does occur and (generally) is permement (take Outposts as an example). The events actually occur, they really happened......in a digital environment created by CCP, not outside our solarsystem somewhere. But really, Who thinks going to the corner store for a paper is a more enriching life experience then having fun with a bunch of friends playing a game and drinking some beers? I can't remember the last time I woke up on sunday morning thinking, man, what a wild Newspaper & Coffee that was yesterday...hopefully this Newspaper-induced hangover will clear, and I can remember the good times I had purusing the sports section until 2 am before returning home with a nice little editorial (who I think is in the bathroom right now).
Jibrelle GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:01:00 - [117] Edited by: Jibrelle on 28/07/2006 19:02:06 Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Ayane Vendre "Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth?" The person died in real life. So what? You keep making a distinction, and I don't understand why. :gonk: Let me see if I can spell this out for you. You can't avenge your friend's supposed insult from Tets (who is, we all admit & recognize, a tasteless idiot) by blowing up our internet spaceships. BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST PIXELS. We'll just walk away from the computer giggling. And probably come back to the forums to mock you some more because you respond so very, very beautifully. You can't get us to kow-tow and be afraid of you, because it's just a game. Whatever validation you are looking from us over your dead friend's insult isn't going to be gained by coming up to fight us. We want you to fight us. It'll be fun. But it's not going to make us suddenly remorseful, kick out Remedial, or whatever it is you want us to do. What do you think coming up to cloud ring and kicking us out is really going to do? I mean, honestly? Do you think all 2,500 of us are suddenly going to start lighting candles in whatever your friend's name was? (His real name, not his handle.) Or do you think that coming up to fight us is going to make us be all scared and quit the game? That's what you guys were originally threatening the goons with. The insult can't be avenged over internet space, my friend. It just fundamentally can't. You can call Tets a tasteless idiot (he is), Remedial a fat bastard of demagogue (he is), or Mittani a manipulative ******* (he is, oh god he is), but you can't avenge your dead friend over internet space. Say you are going to do is patently ridiculous, false, and obsfucating your true intentions. Come up to CR, we'll pew-pew at each other, but please drop this 'I'm avenging my dead friend's name on the internets!' thing. It's making you look incredibly silly. And it's just going to make the FYAD crowd mock you more, which you guys really seem to hate.
Nevvy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:03:00 - [118] Edited by: Nevvy on 28/07/2006 19:03:39 There's a post on here where a member from BoB says that goons arent allowed to hold 0.0 space another where a BoB person says we reminded him of them when they were starting out. If I could find them I would quote them together. It reveals BoB's true intentions well enough. I look forward to the fights with BoB, I just hope they have guys on in US time. The 'fighting' with D2 has been absolute numbers domination by one side or the other every time Ive been on. When it hasn't weve sat our 100+ fleets at seperate locations unable to fight because whoever moves first dies to lag. Edit- GoonFleet main, I have to go change these settings.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:03:00 - [119] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Crivens Or are you calling our behaviour adolescent? If so thats ok, I guess. I'm glad you approve You don't have to have my approval, we can be friends :) Not while you're still being such an asshat we can't, no. And the wonderful thing about Eve is that it does have consequences, internally at least. You can accept the consequences of your actions, or you can, as you say, walk away from your computer. Or you can of course spend hours trying to wriggle out of those consequences by posting half-truths and outright lies on a forum. I'm not sure why you'd want to though, because the only effect it's having is to reinforce what everyone already thought about you.
Ayane Vendre Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:04:00 - [120] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte ahem ... were you interacting with this character?? it seems you don't get the concept of interaction ... even if the stuff which surrounds the interaction is virtual (aka bits and bytes) - the interaction which takes place is real. The interaction isnt with a real person, even if its a person behind the virtual persona. Just like the (one way)interaction with a fictitious character from a book/movie/soap/game. Quote: it seems i have to quote Anthony Giddens. Quote: Social interaction is the process by which we act and react in relation to those around us. Anthony Giddens - Sociology. p.80 it doesn't matter if you can only interact through words, pixels etc. or if you're looking in the face of the other ... or would you say a telephone call isn't an interaction?? "Those around us", not "Those around us in eve-online but not really around us at all, in faction quite the opposite"
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:05:00 - [121] Originally by: Alessia Karan Originally by: FATE LOL You grew up with someone online? How did you guys go ride bikes together? Play a game of pool? Go out to the pub, oh wait, too young. Please, if your bestest friend in the world is text on a computer screen, you have some issues. I guess that thats the whole problem, you see people in this game only as text on a computer screen. I really do wonder, how exactly do you think that some other person playing this game is less real then for instance somebody that passes you on the street ? Ah, but I can touch that person walking down the street. Let's just say what happens when someone quits, do you worry that they died, or do you wonder, "Hey, what ever happened to X" Now the question is, do I care deeply about that person walking down the street? Would I care about text on a screen as much as a person walking down the street? Now when the two Worlds start to blur, as it has for some people in this thread, and in this forum, that's when you have a problem.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:05:00 - [122] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Dianabolic Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth? Surely what you claim we're trying to do, is akin to beating your mario kart score... on sonic the hedgehog? You've (your idiot group) has insulted someone we GREW UP WITH in this game. You NEED to take a step back. I refuse to believe that this is healthy. A friend of yours is dead. In real life. And in return for someone making jokes in terrible taste about him (I know he was talking about the bandwagon calenth, but it doesn't matter for the sake of this argument) you're going to shoot some spaceships. PLEASE realise why this is not healthy behaviour. At best it is anti-social and at worst it is psychotic and faintly delusional. Dear Crivens, As you seem to have the ability to transcend "eve" to the "real life", I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter entitled "how to be an idiot and completely miss the point". I think with the revenue generated from that you could afford a decent and painless euthanisia (I hear helium is good) to end yourself and furhter prove darwins theory.
Thoreau	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:05:00 - [123] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Ayane Vendre "Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth?" The person died in real life. So you'd suggest we take this to real life? Yes actually. Have you ever heard of therapy? Approaching someone you don't like and trying to deal with things with words rather than weapons? I'm not saying that arbitrary wars are bad, but there are other ways of dealing with personal hate than to take it out on 2000 people who were not involved. It's okay to go to war and have fun, but we are telling you that this will not solve feelings of anger.
Xipious Oash GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:06:00 - [124] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Ayane Vendre "Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth?" The person died in real life. So you'd suggest we take this to real life? Acording to what you've said before, we already are by flying spaceships. ------------------------- "(i used to respect the SA community but this is absurd)" --zen tsetse
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:06:00 - [125] I don't know why you're all still debating this, whether that sig on the Goon forums annoyed us enough to decide to destroy you all on it's own or whether it was the straw that broke the camel's back (which to my mind it was) doesn't really matter. We can leave that issue behind us now. You annoyed us, in Eve that means that we can and will come and shoot you. Stop going on about why and play the damn game. In game we don't like Goons. In game we are going to kill you. End of. No need for you to reiterate for the 120447876 time that you think we're overreacting Eve Blacklight Style
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:07:00 - [126] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 28/07/2006 19:13:25 Originally by: Ayane Vendre Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte ahem ... were you interacting with this character?? it seems you don't get the concept of interaction ... even if the stuff which surrounds the interaction is virtual (aka bits and bytes) - the interaction which takes place is real. The interaction isnt with a real person, even if its a person behind the virtual persona. Just like the (one way)interaction with a fictitious character from a book/movie/soap/game. Quote: it seems i have to quote Anthony Giddens. Quote: Social interaction is the process by which we act and react in relation to those around us. Anthony Giddens - Sociology. p.80 it doesn't matter if you can only interact through words, pixels etc. or if you're looking in the face of the other ... or would you say a telephone call isn't an interaction?? "Those around us", not "Those around us in eve-online but not really around us at all, in faction quite the opposite" you don't get it. then please explain me that a telephone call is NO interaction at all. if you can do so i apologize for my "geekness" ... if you can't i'd say: get a clue because there are face-to-face interactions ... you'd say "reallife" interactions through media which mask your physical appeareance to a certain degree. if you phone some one - you can hear his voice and he can hear yours - and you talk to each other. in the internet your physical appeareance is in fact a stream of bits and bytes. it masks your "real" physical appeareance but i won't mask your message. interactions can even happen on an economic level this is in case macrosociology - while the allready mentioned is microsociology. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:08:00 - [127] Originally by: Dianabolic So you'd suggest we take this to real life? I could have swore someone already has threatened that, but I'll be damned if I could find that post.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:08:00 - [128] Originally by: Alessia Karan I guess that thats the whole problem, you see people in this game only as text on a computer screen. I really do wonder, how exactly do you think that some other person playing this game is less real then for instance somebody that passes you on the street ? Well, I for one don't run up to that person passing me on the street shouting NEUTRAL ON THE GATE PRIMARY PRIMARY ALL WARP TO ME whilst throwing rocks at him without warning. I suppose that's a difference. I'm going to agree with the position that the internet is just as "real" as our other social interactions, but with the priviso that interactions on the ineternet are (and possibly should be) qualatatively different from personal interactions due to the (mostly) anonymity of the net and the huge distances often separating individuals on the internet. I think that a good soundbite to encompas this qualatative difference - whilst pithy and somewhat inaccurate - would be "the internet isn't real".
Hawkings SJ Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:09:00 - [129] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Dianabolic Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth? Surely what you claim we're trying to do, is akin to beating your mario kart score... on sonic the hedgehog? You've (your idiot group) has insulted someone we GREW UP WITH in this game. You NEED to take a step back. I refuse to believe that this is healthy. A friend of yours is dead. In real life. And in return for someone making jokes in terrible taste about him (I know he was talking about the bandwagon calenth, but it doesn't matter for the sake of this argument) you're going to shoot some spaceships. PLEASE realise why this is not healthy behaviour. At best it is anti-social and at worst it is psychotic and faintly delusional. Shrug, if a group of goons and a group of bob were in a bar and you started slinging some commentary at them, they could come over and get into a real, non-ficitional brawl with you. But, that not being the case, they have decided to attempt and eliminated something you enjoy (the game). If they can actually do that or not remains to be seen, if you care or not remains to be seen, but I don't think every member of goons would be as happy as you guys like to make out if you litterally could not undock from the station without instantly reappearing back inside as a clone. And really, what does BoB lose by making this their focus? They get PVP, they get satisfaction at a job well done, and maybe they get to reduce or eliminate some of your players enjoyment of the game.
Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:12:00 - [130] Originally by: Blacklight In game we don't like Goons. In game we are going to kill you. End of. That I can respect. No doubt you'll probably pod the hell out of me, but it'll be fun having a go.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:13:00 - [131] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte you don't get it. then please explain me that a telephone call is NO interaction at all. if you can do so i apologize for my "geekness" ... if you can't i'd say: get a clue No, YOU don't get it. It's not TACTILE. You can't hold and cry IRC or you Computer monitor. You shouldn't be kissing and hugging your telephone. And if your headset is telling you that you need to go take a shower because you stink, then you have some other issues you need to work out.
Ayane Vendre Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:13:00 - [132] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte you don't get it. then please explain me that a telephone call is NO interaction at all. if you can do so i apologize for my "geekness" ... if you can't i'd say: get a clue It seems you dont get it. You talk on the phone as yourself, not as some internet game persona(and NO-ONE is exactly like their real life selves in a game). The interaction is virtual because the results/repurcussions/reactions are only virtual.
Degaal Valen Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:14:00 - [133] Originally by: Alessia Karan I really do wonder, how exactly do you think that some other person playing this game is less real then for instance somebody that passes you on the street ? I dunno, probably the fact that I'm not shooting people I see on the street with lasers. I mean do you guys even read what you are posting here, about a video game? You should seriously get your teacher at the dojo you practice your kickboxing at to help you get some tranquility in your life or something.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:15:00 - [134] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Crivens Edited by: Crivens on 28/07/2006 18:16:50 Originally by: Joerd Toastius Second Fred's comment - I'm part time PA, I know exactly what you guys are like, and frankly I've dealt with worse. Your only defining characteristics are that you're big and (unlike people like GameFaqs) you know how to turn caps lock off - otherwise you're a pretty average "adolescent geek" community. I don't know what a PA is, and I'm not sure if the "dealt with worse" comment was a compliment or an insult, but I believe that the average goon is university educated and in his mid-20s. We are pretty geeky, but we've done some cool things. When some of our members were going to fight in afghanistan they wern't issued adequate body armour. Despite the forums being pretty evenly split between pro and anti war, we rallied behind our own and raised enough money for the squad being commanded by the goon to have the proper armour. I believe that one of the drivers lives was saved because of this armour, but don't quote me on that. Every year money is raised to provide orphan kids with presents at christmas. A life threatening operation one member needed (my memory says kidney operation) was funded almost entirely by SA. FYAD saved someones life when they were going to commit suicide - I don't know the details of that one. When hurricane katrina hit, the forums went down and Lowtax replaced the front page with a fundraiser, I forget how many thousands of dollars were raised but it was substantial. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure other online communities have done similar good deeds in the past, and that SA is not unique in this regard. But I think you're missing a lot of the picture to sterotype goons as "adolescent geeks", sure theres a lot of things that people find offensive said on the forums, but in my experience whilst what is said and drawn and posted on the forums can often be offensive, what is actually DONE is generally good. This is by no means a complete list, just the things I personally was there for or know about well. SA is definitely not somplace to go if you don't have a thick skin, but I'd advise just about everyone to go check it out and form their own opinions of the place. It's pretty much common sense that if you try to pidgeon-hole ANY community of nearly 80 000 you're going to get it wrong for thousands and thousands of people. and sup tonkin. I hope all our allies know that as long as they continue to play the game with us, they will have our support. Goons look after their own. If you are all such generous and nice people, then why do you act like total assclowns when you come into our community? Perhaps because we've been treated like total assclowns ever since we've shown up in thsi community? Sig removed, inappropriate content - Cortes
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:15:00 - [135] I feel like I'm stuck in a Asperger's clinic. You all understand the words, but you don't have the social skills to really understand their meaning.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:16:00 - [136] Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte you don't get it. then please explain me that a telephone call is NO interaction at all. if you can do so i apologize for my "geekness" ... if you can't i'd say: get a clue No, YOU don't get it. It's not TACTILE. You can't hold and cry IRC or you Computer monitor. You shouldn't be kissing and hugging your telephone. And if your headset is telling you that you need to go take a shower because you stink, then you have some other issues you need to work out. Says YOU! Don't you ******* GET IT???? You're arguing as if you're RIGHT, as if YOUR opinion is the ONLY opinion. IT ISN'T!
BEEPBEEP IMA	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:16:00 - [137] ITT discussion on the nature of human interaction and emotional attachment. This whole matter is retarded and we'd be better off if CERTAIN PEOPLE that have been posting in every single goddamned Bob vs. GS thread would lay the heck off and cool down a bit instead of regurgitating the same things over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Also please don't interpret "certain people" to be a jab, I'm talking about both sides here. quote this if ur down
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:16:00 - [138] Originally by: Ayane Vendre Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte you don't get it. then please explain me that a telephone call is NO interaction at all. if you can do so i apologize for my "geekness" ... if you can't i'd say: get a clue It seems you dont get it. You talk on the phone as yourself, not as some internet game persona(and NO-ONE is exactly like their real life selves in a game). The interaction is virtual because the results/repurcussions/reactions are only virtual. who says that the people in the "real" world are acting genuine. my last word on this topic: get a clue ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:16:00 - [139] Originally by: Blacklight I don't know why you're all still debating this, whether that sig on the Goon forums annoyed us enough to decide to destroy you all on it's own or whether it was the straw that broke the camel's back (which to my mind it was) doesn't really matter. We can leave that issue behind us now. You annoyed us, in Eve that means that we can and will come and shoot you. Stop going on about why and play the damn game. In game we don't like Goons. In game we are going to kill you. End of. No need for you to reiterate for the 120447876 time that you think we're overreacting That's not the issue at all as far as I'm concerned. Fighting BoB will be awesome, it's about time. The issue is what you dug up and spouted on these forums, a hurtful personal attack on over 2000 people. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Hawkings SJ Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:17:00 - [140] Originally by: Jibrelle Edited by: Jibrelle on 28/07/2006 19:02:06 Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Ayane Vendre "Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth?" The person died in real life. So what? You keep making a distinction, and I don't understand why. :gonk: Let me see if I can spell this out for you. You can't avenge your friend's supposed insult from Tets (who is, we all admit & recognize, a tasteless idiot) by blowing up our internet spaceships. BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST PIXELS. We'll just walk away from the computer giggling. And probably come back to the forums to mock you some more because you respond so very, very beautifully. You can't get us to kow-tow and be afraid of you, because it's just a game. Whatever validation you are looking from us over your dead friend's insult isn't going to be gained by coming up to fight us. We want you to fight us. It'll be fun. But it's not going to make us suddenly remorseful, kick out Remedial, or whatever it is you want us to do. What do you think coming up to cloud ring and kicking us out is really going to do? I mean, honestly? Do you think all 2,500 of us are suddenly going to start lighting candles in whatever your friend's name was? (His real name, not his handle.) Or do you think that coming up to fight us is going to make us be all scared and quit the game? That's what you guys were originally threatening the goons with. The insult can't be avenged over internet space, my friend. It just fundamentally can't. You can call Tets a tasteless idiot (he is), Remedial a fat bastard of demagogue (he is), or Mittani a manipulative ******* (he is, oh god he is), but you can't avenge your dead friend over internet space. Say you are going to do is patently ridiculous, false, and obsfucating your true intentions. Come up to CR, we'll pew-pew at each other, but please drop this 'I'm avenging my dead friend's name on the internets!' thing. It's making you look incredibly silly. And it's just going to make the FYAD crowd mock you more, which you guys really seem to hate. I'm sorry, but why exactly is attacking someone on an internet game not an appropriate response to them insulting someone on the internet? What else would they do, exactly, take it up with your congressman? Come to your neighborhood and beat you? I'd be a lot more shocked if someone did the latter two then the former, if we are talking about acceptable responses.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:17:00 - [141] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Crivens Dear Crivens, As you seem to have the ability to transcend "eve" to the "real life", I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter entitled "how to be an idiot and completely miss the point". I think with the revenue generated from that you could afford a decent and painless euthanisia (I hear helium is good) to end yourself and furhter prove darwins theory. It amuses me that, after I voiced concern for your possible psychosis, you advised me to kill myself.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:18:00 - [142] Originally by: Cvuos That's not the issue at all as far as I'm concerned. Fighting BoB will be awesome, it's about time. The issue is what you dug up and spouted on these forums, a hurtful personal attack on over 2000 people. So are you going to keep harping on about it then? If you want this to be a real hate war you are going about it the right way and it will not be in any way shape or form pleasant. I could retaliate with a lot of things I think about some of your members but I said my peice and am going to get on with it in game, perhaps you should do the same. Eve Blacklight Style
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:18:00 - [143] Originally by: Ayane Vendre You talk on the phone as yourself, not as some internet game persona(and NO-ONE is exactly like their real life selves in a game). The interaction is virtual because the results/repurcussions/reactions are only virtual. Teamspeak much? Next argument please.
Alessia Karan Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:18:00 - [144] Originally by: FATE LOL I feel like I'm stuck in a Asperger's clinic. You all understand the words, but you don't have the social skills to really understand their meaning. You don't seem to get that the people controlling all those other chars are real human beings too. But if you think we are not, why are you even typing here ? The fact that you ARE arguing here kinda proves your whole point wrong.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:19:00 - [145] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte you don't get it. then please explain me that a telephone call is NO interaction at all. if you can do so i apologize for my "geekness" ... if you can't i'd say: get a clue No, YOU don't get it. It's not TACTILE. You can't hold and cry IRC or you Computer monitor. You shouldn't be kissing and hugging your telephone. And if your headset is telling you that you need to go take a shower because you stink, then you have some other issues you need to work out. Says YOU! Don't you ******* GET IT???? You're arguing as if you're RIGHT, as if YOUR opinion is the ONLY opinion. IT ISN'T! I'm sorry, I'm only trained in the DSM-VI TR in real life.
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:19:00 - [146] Originally by: Blacklight In game we are going to kill you. Except BoB is making threats to harm goons in real life on their forums. You guys have serious issues and don't have a clue about keeping it "in game".
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:19:00 - [147] Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: Blacklight I don't know why you're all still debating this, whether that sig on the Goon forums annoyed us enough to decide to destroy you all on it's own or whether it was the straw that broke the camel's back (which to my mind it was) doesn't really matter. We can leave that issue behind us now. You annoyed us, in Eve that means that we can and will come and shoot you. Stop going on about why and play the damn game. In game we don't like Goons. In game we are going to kill you. End of. No need for you to reiterate for the 120447876 time that you think we're overreacting That's not the issue at all as far as I'm concerned. Fighting BoB will be awesome, it's about time. The issue is what you dug up and spouted on these forums, a hurtful personal attack on over 2000 people. So the community that takes great pleasure in insulting miullions fo others, or targetting the weak and the vulnerable, has finally found its match in EvE? Could this really be what the internet has been waiting for? Wow, I think we've scored a bigger coup than the rest of the world here, folks. Now, let me dig out those comments about "this being hte inet, and not the real world", just so we don't get upset.
Jargoon GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:20:00 - [148] Originally by: Dianabolic So the community that takes great pleasure in insulting miullions fo others, Furries don't really count as people anyway so your figure is a little high
Hawkings SJ Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:21:00 - [149] Originally by: Ayane Vendre Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte you don't get it. then please explain me that a telephone call is NO interaction at all. if you can do so i apologize for my "geekness" ... if you can't i'd say: get a clue It seems you dont get it. You talk on the phone as yourself, not as some internet game persona(and NO-ONE is exactly like their real life selves in a game). The interaction is virtual because the results/repurcussions/reactions are only virtual. So the theory here is that if instead of Ventrillo, people got together on one really big tele-confrence call, they would act differently? That's a bit of a stretch. Or, lets say I dialed a random number with no way for the call to be traced back to me. You are saying I would act differently then if I jumped into a random vent with no way it would be traced back to me? Right....
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:21:00 - [150] Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Blacklight In game we are going to kill you. Except BoB is making threats to harm goons in real life on their forums. You guys have serious issues and don't have a clue about keeping it "in game". Proof please. Got quotes? @crivens - if you like I can suggest a method of destruction, but u'll need to eject from your ship - or were you mis-managing that crossover from rl again?
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:22:00 - [151] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte you don't get it. then please explain me that a telephone call is NO interaction at all. if you can do so i apologize for my "geekness" ... if you can't i'd say: get a clue No, YOU don't get it. It's not TACTILE. You can't hold and cry IRC or you Computer monitor. You shouldn't be kissing and hugging your telephone. And if your headset is telling you that you need to go take a shower because you stink, then you have some other issues you need to work out. Says YOU! Don't you ******* GET IT???? You're arguing as if you're RIGHT, as if YOUR opinion is the ONLY opinion. IT ISN'T! I also think you need to go relax for a bit, your outbursts are getting over dramatic and you need to detach yourself for awhile. Go have a nice cup of tea, something without caffine. Maybe you should lower the caffine levels in your life a littlebit as well.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:22:00 - [152] Originally by: Hawkings SJ I'm sorry, but why exactly is attacking someone on an internet game not an appropriate response to them insulting someone on the internet? Because a real person is dead, and an internet game is not the appropriate or healthy place for the people who loved him to morn him. Frankly, I would consider it more healthy HAD mr.molle gone over to Tens house and punched him in the face for what he said. Declairing galactic e-war in memory of someone he loved is rather inadequate, don't you think? Of course, the MOST healthy thing to have been done would have been for all involved to go to the pub, have a beer or seventeen and talk about the good times they had with their friend, and then laugh at the pathetic sod who never met him making jokes at his expense.
Ayane Vendre Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:22:00 - [153] Edited by: Ayane Vendre on 28/07/2006 19:23:29 Originally by: Joerd Toastius Teamspeak much? Next argument please. You meet the people you TS/eve with on a daily basis? Reading skills hits your for 1024 damage. "my last word on this topic: get a clue" My last word on this topic: get a life(yes, stereotypical, but it really applies this time).
Havelcek Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:23:00 - [154] Honestly, BoB outclasses Goon by such a wide margin in terms of ships, skillpoints and tactics that I can't imagine this event to be either interesting or particularly fulfilling for BoB. I doubt it will take more than two weeks for BoB to clean out Goon's supply of T1 ships and firmly relocate them back into Syndicate at square 1.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:23:00 - [155] This is realy pointless. Hopefully Abdalion or any forum mod will wake up and use that lock and rid us of all these headaches. This will be a war of elimination and we shall all see how it ends , so lets get on with it . "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
Hawkings SJ Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:24:00 - [156] Edited by: Hawkings SJ on 28/07/2006 19:26:09 Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: Blacklight I don't know why you're all still debating this, whether that sig on the Goon forums annoyed us enough to decide to destroy you all on it's own or whether it was the straw that broke the camel's back (which to my mind it was) doesn't really matter. We can leave that issue behind us now. You annoyed us, in Eve that means that we can and will come and shoot you. Stop going on about why and play the damn game. In game we don't like Goons. In game we are going to kill you. End of. No need for you to reiterate for the 120447876 time that you think we're overreacting That's not the issue at all as far as I'm concerned. Fighting BoB will be awesome, it's about time. The issue is what you dug up and spouted on these forums, a hurtful personal attack on over 2000 people. What's the difference between the Goonswarm response to the hurtful, personal attack from BoB (i.e. forum spamming and preparing to fight in game) and the Bob reaction to hurtful, personal attacks from Goonswarm (i.e. forum spamming and preparing to fight in game)? I mean, the widely accepted theory on Goonswarms side is that BoB is over-reacting, but in the end you are basically going to be doing the exact same thing as them...fighting in game and spamming the forums with non-sense. What's the difference? Who shot first? At best debatable, and only a difference in why you are reacting, not how. So, for all the Goonswarm telling the BoB's to not e-this and internet-that, it seems kinda ironic that you have and will be doing the same e-things and internet-things you accuse them of.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:25:00 - [157] Originally by: FATE LOL I'm sorry, I'm only trained in the DSM-VI TR in real life. ahh .. i see OUR problem psychology and sociology don't fit each other that well ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:26:00 - [158] Originally by: FATE LOL I'm sorry, I'm only trained in the DSM-VI TR in real life. DSM VI is a diagnostic manual, and I frankly have little respect for it. Some of the papers being written on the nature of interaction over the internet are fascinating, though I question the perspectives of the authors. That said, the general conclusion of the papers is that it is entirely possible to, and generally not healthy to, take the internet too seriously. (quacks ITT)
Coran Ordus Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:26:00 - [159] I think a lot of the problem is the solidarty of the Goons, oddly enough. Now, it's not a bad thing to be loyal, don't get me wrong. But it's unusual in the context of Eve to be loyal, right or wrong. For the most part, if there's a obnoxious twit in your corp, you kick them out or trot them out and make them say I'm sorry and then pod them a few times. If your corp does things you're ashamed of (not as in pirating, but immature smack, etc.), you leave it. But with the goons, that's not really an option, it seems. Everyone there is already in a community, and moved together into a bigger one. Except the bigger one has different standards. Most eve-ites, if they found themselves in an objectionable situation, would just leave the corp. But a goon never would, because it'd be like quitting Eve. It's either goons or nothing. (Correct me if I'm wrong here.) Thus we end up with a situation where the statements of a thoughtless few, or a bit of a crazy leader, reflect on everyone. After all, from most people's perspective, if you didn't like it, you'd leave, not say 'yeah, they suck, but I'm not like them, I'm not responsible for their actions.' And a personal vendetta that might normally just have been a few people being hounded and podded turns into a giant war. So ... yeah. I have no solutions, no comments to make beyond this. Take it to space and blow each other up. Just hopefully trying to explain to the majority of Goonies, who seem to be quite literate and well-spoken (once they didn't have to hide behind alts), why it must look like you've been generalized and insulted.
Ayane Vendre Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:31:00 - [160] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Ayane Vendre You meet the people you TS/eve with on a daily basis? I don't meet people I talk to on the phone on a daily basis either. You're flip-flopping between interaction medium and physical proximity. Come back when you can construct a consistent argument. No i'm not, I said they were virtual because they had no repurcussions outside the virtual persona, and your virtual persona has little to do with your real persona. Stop bull****ting please, in place of real arguments.
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:32:00 - [161] Edited by: Nova Cygni on 28/07/2006 19:33:51 Originally by: Dianabolic So the community that takes great pleasure in insulting miullions fo others, or targetting the weak and the vulnerable, has finally found its match in EvE? Your deep and meaninful understanding of what it means to be a goon, and how goons act, had shaken me to my very core! And by 'insulting miullions fo others' (which i can only assume is 'insulting millions of others' and your sausage fingers simply mashed the wrong keys... or maybe internet rage fingers), i assume you are bringing up the thousands of dollars the SA forums raise for charity right? I would be insulted to be helped in my time of need! Dianabolic, its good to see that your petty months long forum war against goons apparently can still continue... although you probably should take some time to actually, you know, get some facts.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:33:00 - [162] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Ayane Vendre You meet the people you TS/eve with on a daily basis? I don't meet people I talk to on the phone on a daily basis either. You're flip-flopping between interaction medium and physical proximity. Come back when you can construct a consistent argument. Can you please advance an argument yourself? You're comments thus far have been confined to calling SA an adolescent community, calling myself an asshat, and poking holes in others arguments. Do you agree or do you disagree that there is a qualatative difference between an interaction on eve and an interaction in mundane terms, to the extent of which that from the perspective of mundane interaction, eve interaction could be termed loosely as "not real" ?
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:33:00 - [163] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Blacklight In game we are going to kill you. Except BoB is making threats to harm goons in real life on their forums. You guys have serious issues and don't have a clue about keeping it "in game". Proof please. Got quotes? @crivens - if you like I can suggest a method of destruction, but u'll need to eject from your ship - or were you mis-managing that crossover from rl again? This was just on the public forums of black nova corp. I can imagine much worse is being said in your private forums. "We'll reign in the forum behaviour once tempers have calmed be sure of it but right now 90% of BoB would have a very hard job not leveling those idiots in real life if we met them, we are fuming and it isn't just us. It's very convenient to make this a BoB issue, when in actual fact it is a massive issue for whoever was friends with Smoske, we're just vocal and will go immediately for the jugular when someone **es us off in Eve. We can't (and wouldn't, despite being mad enough to talk about it) drive round to these idiot's houses and have it out with them, we can't make them stop spewing ** on the forums and in local but we can have a go in game. "
Hawkings SJ Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:33:00 - [164] Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Alessia Karan Originally by: FATE LOL I feel like I'm stuck in a Asperger's clinic. You all understand the words, but you don't have the social skills to really understand their meaning. You don't seem to get that the people controlling all those other chars are real human beings too. But if you think we are not, why are you even typing here ? The fact that you ARE arguing here kinda proves your whole point wrong. Not really. If I cause one person to go "Wow, I need to turn off the computer and outside and see the magic around me, I have done good. And to think, all you have to do is give up good outside time & magic at your computer on the internet to achieve it. Oh well, at least you get to create a fictional moral high ground right?
Cohkka LoneWolf Mining R i s e	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:34:00 - [165] Originally by: Berrik Radhok Perhaps because we've been treated like total assclowns ever since we've shown up in thsi community? And that's your excuse? With your understanding of "fun" you bring a part of real live into the game. Therefore destroying the game experiance for other people. This time it was mainly Bob, deal with it. If these things happen ingame, CCP will take actions, as they did when some asshats thought it was funny to send deaththreats to one of my former corpmates ages ago. They recieved a temp ban. Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
Zen TseTse Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:34:00 - [166] Very insightful commentary, imo. Two comments: 1. If goons predictably declare "victory" when BoB doesnt completely destroy them... once again they will just be asking for more punishment and mockery from the entire eve universe. It wont even require "official" goon comments to stir such adverse consequences. Goons have what i'd call a "forum troll" problem that is impacting them far moreso than i think their official policies/decisions are. 2. I know some Goons. I respect many Goons. I've played with Goons in other games. I come from Tribalwar.com so i "get" the SA culture pretty well, as there is quite a lot of overlap, shared people and shared history. If you really look at the SA forums you can find some of the most retarded stuff in internet history, but you can also find a heck of a lot of mature, reasoned and intelligent discussion. That's what bothers me about this whole scenario. To the point: i'd wager there are many serious players and good pilots inside Goons that are getting a little tired of the drama, antics and reputation. I cant prove it. Time will tell, but i know i personally would grow exhausted with this non-sense and eventually the "everybody else is crazy, not us" posturing would wear off. Ф *Blood Eagle* is a state of mind... null
Hawkings SJ Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:37:00 - [167] Edited by: Hawkings SJ on 28/07/2006 19:39:41 Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Blacklight In game we are going to kill you. Except BoB is making threats to harm goons in real life on their forums. You guys have serious issues and don't have a clue about keeping it "in game". Proof please. Got quotes? @crivens - if you like I can suggest a method of destruction, but u'll need to eject from your ship - or were you mis-managing that crossover from rl again? This was just on the public forums of black nova corp. I can imagine much worse is being said in your private forums. "We'll reign in the forum behaviour once tempers have calmed be sure of it but right now 90% of BoB would have a very hard job not leveling those idiots in real life if we met them, we are fuming and it isn't just us. It's very convenient to make this a BoB issue, when in actual fact it is a massive issue for whoever was friends with Smoske, we're just vocal and will go immediately for the jugular when someone **es us off in Eve. We can't (and wouldn't, despite being mad enough to talk about it) drive round to these idiot's houses and have it out with them, we can't make them stop spewing ** on the forums and in local but we can have a go in game. " So to prove that BoB has made physical threats against you, you quote a post where they specifically say they can't and wouldn't physically harm you, only that they were mad enough that they might have talked about it amongst themselves? Is this supposed to prove or disprove your claim?
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:37:00 - [168] Originally by: Toffles "We'll reign in the forum behaviour once tempers have calmed be sure of it but right now 90% of BoB would have a very hard job not leveling those idiots in real life if we met them, we are fuming and it isn't just us. It's very convenient to make this a BoB issue, when in actual fact it is a massive issue for whoever was friends with Smoske, we're just vocal and will go immediately for the jugular when someone **es us off in Eve. We can't (and wouldn't, despite being mad enough to talk about it) drive round to these idiot's houses and have it out with them, we can't make them stop spewing ** on the forums and in local but we can have a go in game. " Ah, Blacklight, you're a class act. Pity you posted that bit earlier about 'only being mad in-game' when you'd written this about attacking goons in real life on your own forums. Now here's the part where you cry about having stuff taken from your internal forums, and we can play the pot/kettle game.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:39:00 - [169] Originally by: Coran Ordus I think a lot of the problem is the solidarty of the Goons, oddly enough. Now, it's not a bad thing to be loyal, don't get me wrong. But it's unusual in the context of Eve to be loyal, right or wrong. For the most part, if there's a obnoxious twit in your corp, you kick them out or trot them out and make them say I'm sorry and then pod them a few times. If your corp does things you're ashamed of (not as in pirating, but immature smack, etc.), you leave it. But with the goons, that's not really an option, it seems. Everyone there is already in a community, and moved together into a bigger one. Except the bigger one has different standards. Most eve-ites, if they found themselves in an objectionable situation, would just leave the corp. But a goon never would, because it'd be like quitting Eve. It's either goons or nothing. (Correct me if I'm wrong here.) Thus we end up with a situation where the statements of a thoughtless few, or a bit of a crazy leader, reflect on everyone. After all, from most people's perspective, if you didn't like it, you'd leave, not say 'yeah, they suck, but I'm not like them, I'm not responsible for their actions.' And a personal vendetta that might normally just have been a few people being hounded and podded turns into a giant war. So ... yeah. I have no solutions, no comments to make beyond this. Take it to space and blow each other up. Just hopefully trying to explain to the majority of Goonies, who seem to be quite literate and well-spoken (once they didn't have to hide behind alts), why it must look like you've been generalized and insulted. I just wanted to say that I found this post really quite informative. You're correct about what you say when you say that to goons quitting goonfleet is like quitting eve. Though we go further than that: I've heard some goons say, "I don't play eve-online, I play goonfleet". Perhaps, in recognising our soildarity, you can apreciate how we can only role our eyes when BoB insists they will destroy us for the actions of a few of us. We have loads and loads of fun playing this game - ask our allies. Play it with us.
Wilfan Ret'nub Omega Corp	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:40:00 - [170] Originally by: Dianabolic Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth? You're avenging about as much as Americans that were boycotting French wine around the secodn Iraq invasion ...
Havelcek Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:40:00 - [171] Originally by: Nevvy I'm going to agree with you on the ships and skillpoints but maybe not the tactics, thats harder to measure. And we LIKE Syndicate. Even if BoB were to kick us out of Cloudring we will be stoked for it to have taken BoB to do it and will go back to Syndicate with a grin on our face. We've already held XZH for longer than anyone said we could, this is a victory for us no matter how it goes down. I've had the pleasure (or not) of being in some fleet battles against BoB and they have an unnatural ability to warp into you at the absolutely optimal range for them which also, conveniently happens to be the worst for you. Its a learning experience to say the least =P
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:43:00 - [172] Originally by: The Mittani Ah, Blacklight, you're a class act. Pity you posted that bit earlier about 'only being mad in-game' when you'd written this about attacking goons in real life on your own forums. Now here's the part where you cry about having stuff taken from your internal forums, and we can play the pot/kettle game. It's in the public forum so sure it's there to be read. It also specifically says that this is an in game issue, no matter how mad we were lastnight. Quote it all you like. Eve Blacklight Style
Yodaron Ballsithor Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:45:00 - [173] Originally by: Nova Cygni Edited by: Nova Cygni on 28/07/2006 19:33:51 Originally by: Dianabolic So the community that takes great pleasure in insulting miullions fo others, or targetting the weak and the vulnerable, has finally found its match in EvE? Your deep and meaninful understanding of what it means to be a goon, and how goons act, had shaken me to my very core! And by 'insulting miullions fo others' (which i can only assume is 'insulting millions of others' and your sausage fingers simply mashed the wrong keys... or maybe internet rage fingers), i assume you are bringing up the thousands of dollars the SA forums raise for charity right? I would be insulted to be helped in my time of need! Dianabolic, its good to see that your petty months long forum war against goons apparently can still continue... although you probably should take some time to actually, you know, get some facts. If you go back and read other Goon threads you will see BOB complimenting Goons and wishing them well. WTS Clue.
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:46:00 - [174] Originally by: Yodaron Ballsithor If you go back and read other Goon threads you will see BOB complimenting Goons and wishing them well. WTS Clue. Uh, notice my post is targeted at Dianabolic. Maybe reread some goon threads and focus on that name, huh?
Vahl Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:46:00 - [175] Originally by: Wodin Drukvik Originally by: Sochin If you are all such generous and nice people, then why do you act like total assclowns when you come into our community? That's the problem. For every decent, well-mannered poster like Crivens there's an asshat who thinks being as edgy and tasteless as possible is funny. Unfortunately, one of the consequences of being the giant agglomeration is we have both the good and the bad, and have to work with that fact. Lighthearted frivolity is what started Cloud Ring, and tastelessness and braggadicio are what started the current conflict. With as many people who play, all of these traits end up coming to the fore. I'll be honest - I owe Goonfleet a debt for making the game a fun place to play. The standard Goonfleet newbie has more opportunity than many EVE players ever have. I wouldn't be here(many would say this is a good thing) were it not for Goonfleet. At the same time, I can't help but be saddened by seeing the irresponsible actions of my corpmates who lack the respect to be polite. The current situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth personally, but I would be a worse person were I to abandon those people who helped make the game fun because of those idiots who try to spoil it. I agree with this. I personally have never purposefully insulted anyone on these forums, but in an organization the size of ours you are bound to have a percentage of drooling idiots who don't know any better, or if they do they don't care. GS is certainly not the first alliance to have members do tateless things that annoyed people and we wont be the last. You also never know when a given member of an alliance that is talking up smack and being as repulsive as possible is a plant by the enemy to make them look worse. Now don't get me wrong, there are some exceedingly offensive goons and much of what went down yesterday after we realized BoB was going to war with us regardless of any repairations we made was crude and over the line, but there is only so much control to be exerted through internet means. Believe me when I say there was a large number of goons letting these people know exactly how far over the limits of decency they went and were generally angered by some of the things said. However, I am eager to get this thing on because I love to test myself against the best, and in EVE BoB is the 800 lb gorilla on the block, so lets get this thing on fellas and stop the name calling. ____________________________________________________________________ Now you realize that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:46:00 - [176] Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: The Mittani Ah, Blacklight, you're a class act. Pity you posted that bit earlier about 'only being mad in-game' when you'd written this about attacking goons in real life on your own forums. Now here's the part where you cry about having stuff taken from your internal forums, and we can play the pot/kettle game. It's in the public forum so sure it's there to be read. It also specifically says that this is an in game issue, no matter how mad we were lastnight. Quote it all you like. Smells like a cop-out and a show pony if you ask me. After reading BoB's mindless foaming at the mouth rants here on this forum, you post that one, with a poor disclaimer) all the while you are trying something behind the curtain. Kinda like this whole war thing.
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:48:00 - [177] Originally by: Hawkings SJ Is this supposed to prove or disprove your claim? I don't think things anyone is honestly interested in "Proof" or "reasoning" anymore. All discussions involving BoB and Goonfleet have degenerated to each side simply presenting the same arguments to each other over and over again in a cycle where everyone gets more angry, but nobody actually cares to understand one another's point of view. It seems like the decisions to be offended, and to make war over it were made before the first thread of outrage was posted. It also appears that this reaction was non-negotiable from the start and that no amount of apologizing, or corp action would have mattered. Maybe everyone should just shut up, and talk with thier ships, not their bull****.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:48:00 - [178] Originally by: BEEPBEEP IMA ITT discussion on the nature of human interaction and emotional attachment. This whole matter is retarded and we'd be better off if CERTAIN PEOPLE that have been posting in every single goddamned Bob vs. GS thread would lay the heck off and cool down a bit instead of regurgitating the same things over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Also please don't interpret "certain people" to be a jab, I'm talking about both sides here. quote this if ur down get banned idiot Sig removed, inappropriate content - Cortes
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:49:00 - [179] Originally by: Hawkings SJ Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Alessia Karan Originally by: FATE LOL I feel like I'm stuck in a Asperger's clinic. You all understand the words, but you don't have the social skills to really understand their meaning. You don't seem to get that the people controlling all those other chars are real human beings too. But if you think we are not, why are you even typing here ? The fact that you ARE arguing here kinda proves your whole point wrong. Not really. If I cause one person to go "Wow, I need to turn off the computer and outside and see the magic around me, I have done good. And to think, all you have to do is give up good outside time & magic at your computer on the internet to achieve it. Oh well, at least you get to create a fictional moral high ground right? No, keep mashing away at the keyboards, you people having a breakdown of internet/real world barrers will be good for business.
Yodaron Ballsithor Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:50:00 - [180] Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: The Mittani Ah, Blacklight, you're a class act. Pity you posted that bit earlier about 'only being mad in-game' when you'd written this about attacking goons in real life on your own forums. Now here's the part where you cry about having stuff taken from your internal forums, and we can play the pot/kettle game. It's in the public forum so sure it's there to be read. It also specifically says that this is an in game issue, no matter how mad we were lastnight. Quote it all you like. Smells like a cop-out and a show pony if you ask me. After reading BoB's mindless foaming at the mouth rants here on this forum, you post that one, with a poor disclaimer) all the while you are trying something behind the curtain. Kinda like this whole war thing. . . . . WTS Clue
Avernus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:51:00 - [181] This bothers me: Originally by: Ayane Vendre Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte ahem ... were you interacting with this character?? it seems you don't get the concept of interaction ... even if the stuff which surrounds the interaction is virtual (aka bits and bytes) - the interaction which takes place is real. The interaction isnt with a real person, even if its a person behind the virtual persona. Just like the (one way)interaction with a fictitious character from a book/movie/soap/game. Quote: it seems i have to quote Anthony Giddens. Quote: Social interaction is the process by which we act and react in relation to those around us. Anthony Giddens - Sociology. p.80 it doesn't matter if you can only interact through words, pixels etc. or if you're looking in the face of the other ... or would you say a telephone call isn't an interaction?? "Those around us", not "Those around us in eve-online but not really around us at all, in faction quite the opposite" Allow me to verify your thoughts on this: You believe, that everyone here is roleplaying, that we are all here to play the part of a character, and that the actions and the morals we interact by, aren't associated with any real people, emotions, desires, or values? Are you under some sort of assumption that you are competing against an advanced AI subroutine? Your stance in this comes across as exceptionally ignorant, and somewhat delusional. You use an artificial barrier in order to condone offensive behaviour; giving yourself a crutch so that you won't have to examine too closely the results of your actions, and thereby be responsible for them. It's like giving yourself license to be as anti-social as you desire. I find that to be a mark of cowardice. Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:55:00 - [182] Originally by: Ayane Vendre "Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth?" The person died in real life. Yeah, exactly. The whole idea of declaring that you're going to "Take vengeance" in-game for real-life offense just seems extremely trivializing and shameful. Thankfully, BoB does appear to be backpedalling away from that now and is just saying "we're going to fight it out in game, we don't need a reason." I still think a lot of us are owed an apology for BoB's trolling with all this in the first place, but at least their statements are going in the right direction.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:55:00 - [183] Originally by: Yodaron Ballsithor If you go back and read other Goon threads you will see BOB complimenting Goons and wishing them well. WTS Clue. You will also see BoB members threatening us and saying our end is nigh. BoB members post their own opinions, as individuals. WTB in-game reference on forums Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Ayane Vendre Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:56:00 - [184] Originally by: Avernus This bothers me: Allow me to verify your thoughts on this: You believe, that everyone here is roleplaying, that we are all here to play the part of a character, and that the actions and the morals we interact by, aren't associated with any real people, emotions, desires, or values? Are you under some sort of assumption that you are competing against an advanced AI subroutine? Your stance in this comes across as exceptionally ignorant, and somewhat delusional. You use an artificial barrier in order to condone offensive behaviour; giving yourself a crutch so that you won't have to examine too closely the results of your actions, and thereby be responsible for them. It's like giving yourself license to be as anti-social as you desire. I find that to be a mark of cowardice. I'm under the impression that this is a game. If being anti-social in game to a persons character means I'm plain anti social in general, declaring that you will commit genocide on a corp in game means you should be tried at the hague for war crimes(in general!)? Your selective attitude and blatant hypocrisy bothers me. ps, read corp tag, not goonfleet, never registered an SA account or paid to use their forum, and think maddox owned lowtax.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:59:00 - [185] Originally by: Calenth Originally by: Ayane Vendre "Howe else would we avenge it, in this game of eve, Calenth?" The person died in real life. Yeah, exactly. The whole idea of declaring that you're going to "Take vengeance" in-game for real-life offense just seems extremely trivializing and shameful. Thankfully, BoB does appear to be backpedalling away from that now and is just saying "we're going to fight it out in game, we don't need a reason." I still think a lot of us are owed an apology for BoB's trolling with all this in the first place, but at least their statements are going in the right direction. You won't get any apology from us, Calenth. I'm sure you'll sleep well for trying to turn our outrage in to a political tool for your own use, you'll sleep far better for it, in fact, than we ever would - because you don't have the perosonal connection. There is no backpedalling, the reasons we are here are still as valid as they were yesterday, but I guess it takes selective reading for a goon variety to get past all this, to that, right?
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:03:00 - [186] I can't believe this same circular argument keeps going and going and going across many, many threads. It's probably time to give it a rest on the forums now. Everything that can be said has been said.
Anille Kole Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:03:00 - [187] The thing that confuses me most about the GoonSwarm propaganda is that they complain that BoB is taking action in a virtual world about something they said(in the virtual world...). I think a metaphor is in order to help clarify. Originally by: Real World GS and co. goes around the playground saying to everyone and laughing with his friends that (BoB's friend) died, and is heard by BoB repeatedly saying "Haha! (BoB's friend) died! Only idiots get killed!". Then BoB punches GS in the face. GS whines that "BoB is a bully". Originally by: Internet GS and co. goes around the internet saying to everyone and laughing with his friends that (BoB's friend) died, and is heard by BoB repeatedly saying "Haha! (BoB's friend) died! Only idiots get killed!". Then BoB shoots GS in the face with lasers. GS whines that "it's only the internet". I'm trying like heck to be unbiased, but it's pretty dang hard to stop judging GS by its content and not its cover. IE "You're just doing this to beat your chests, btw we killed eleventy-six hundred capital ships." I understand there are a lot of good members in GS, but the ones that spam or sling-mud(such as those referring any post made by BoB, no matter how calm, as e-rage or frothing rage) outnumber them far too much for GS to have anything close to a clean rep on the forums. Yes, I'm an alt. No, I don't expect this post to stay up long, and no, alts aren't allowed. Find a counter to my argument or don't argue it at all, but keep in mind I'm arguing for the basis of BoB's war, albeit an argument likely to be deleted. ________________________________ Lovable alt. <3
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:04:00 - [188] I like to type on the forums more than playing eve! rolflroflzomgpwnbb1337. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:04:00 - [189] Originally by: Ayane Vendre Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte ahem ... were you interacting with this character?? it seems you don't get the concept of interaction ... even if the stuff which surrounds the interaction is virtual (aka bits and bytes) - the interaction which takes place is real. The interaction isnt with a real person, even if its a person behind the virtual persona. Just like the (one way)interaction with a fictitious character from a book/movie/soap/game. ahem ... take a look at EVE-search.com .. search for "Rockduiveltje" ... and then plz say again that interactions in a virtual environment aren't real because they aren't affecting real people. even if you can only see an avatar made out of bits and bytes - you'd better assume that the other side has feelings that can be hurt. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:05:00 - [190] Originally by: Imran I like to type on the forums more than playing eve! rolflroflzomgpwnbb1337. imran will you argue on the internet with me while carrying my manbaby????
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:05:00 - [191] Originally by: Crivens Question Depends how you characterise "mundane interaction". If you mean just direct face-to-face interaction, then yes, there's a qualitative difference over the internet, over the phone, and over a wall for that matter too. Any interaction which doesn't allow facial expressions to be read will be qualatatively different in that respect. However, note that videoconferencing is on that reading qualitatively the same as a face-to-face interaction, which shows that distance is not a relevant variable in that sense. The main difference that non-facial interaction has over facial interaction is that non-facial interaction makes it easier to deceive the other party. Note that deception is not impossible with facial interaction and it's not necessarily easy with non-facial, just that the general degree of difficulty is lower when interaction is not face-to-face. There's then a further divide between spoken and textual interaction; again, textual interaction reduces the amount of available non-verbal (in the strict sense) data available, and thus makes it easier to decieve (intentionally or otherwise). There's nothing particularly special about the (written) internet in this regard - it's just another form of textual interaction. There is something special about internet communities, which include both games and forums, because they involve the creation of a persistent persona which is usually played solely through textual interaction, which as noted above makes it particularly easy to deceive other parties involved. This combination of factors often (usually) gives rise to personas which are divergent from the "real" persona of the person playing them (although note that "real persona" is a somewhat nebulous concept here, particularly when you note that even direct face-to-face interaction can involve deception), and which can be sustained over long periods of time. There's an interesting side-discussion about why this happens, but it's not directly relevant. On top of this "internet community" phenomena there's yet another layer of complexity derived from the fact that Eve is a game which often involves a fair amount of role-playing, explicitly or implicitly, which can mean that the community persona and the in-game persona are divergent too. Now that we've laid down definitions and concepts, is Eve interaction "not real"? In the literal sense no, that's total BS. Interaction is interaction is interaction, and the buzzword you're using to try and convey a complex concept is grossly misleading to the point where it appears you're trying to twist it into a new meaning because your original point has been shot down. Anyway, putting that aside, the issue here is not reality or otherwise but who or what the interactions are between. In the first instance we can characterise interactions as being between the respective personas which are presented. The interaction is still "real" in all obvious senses, it's just not between the "actual" people behind the personas. However, to use this as justification to say that they're meaningless presupposes that such personas are entirely fabricated. This is, in almost all cases, not justified - at least some aspects of the presented persona will be drawn directly from the "real" persona, and thus interactions involving those elements will effectively be interactions between the two "real" personas, to some degree at least. You can factor in on top of this the fact that as the medium used becomes progressively harder to deceive in, the presented personas will become more congruent with the "real" ones, and thus the interactions will become similarly congruent and therefore will have a more profound effect upon the person(s) in question - as the interaction involves more elements of the "real" persona, it will have a more direct and lasting effect upon the people involved. Also note that not all presented personas deceive to the same degree. Out of characters.
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:06:00 - [192] ps. lol@other bored people at work :) And if you're not at work and youre still typing here zomggetlaidplz. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:07:00 - [193] Edited by: Imran on 28/07/2006 20:07:19 oh dude, lets do it! Hopefully our child won't come out as ugly as Blacklight or sweaty ewww and i pray not as hormonally confused as Darko. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Avernus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:08:00 - [194] Originally by: Ayane Vendre Edited by: Ayane Vendre on 28/07/2006 19:58:12 Originally by: Avernus This bothers me: Allow me to verify your thoughts on this: You believe, that everyone here is roleplaying, that we are all here to play the part of a character, and that the actions and the morals we interact by, aren't associated with any real people, emotions, desires, or values? Are you under some sort of assumption that you are competing against an advanced AI subroutine? Your stance in this comes across as exceptionally ignorant, and somewhat delusional. You use an artificial barrier in order to condone offensive behaviour; giving yourself a crutch so that you won't have to examine too closely the results of your actions, and thereby be responsible for them. It's like giving yourself license to be as anti-social as you desire. I find that to be a mark of cowardice. I'm under the impression that this is a game. If being anti-social in game to a persons character means I'm plain anti social in general, declaring that you will commit genocide on a corp in game means you should be tried at the hague for war crimes(in general!)? Your selective attitude and blatant hypocrisy bothers me. ps, read corp tag, not goonfleet, never registered an SA account or paid to use their forum, and think maddox owned lowtax. My attitude isn't selective, I have trouble finding the hypocrisy I'm apparently guilty of. While you aren't SA, it appears your views are shared by them in this area (no real people on the internet). Btw, it's not genocide, it's Emotional Intelligence Quotient Cleansing; and that's A-OK in my book. Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:08:00 - [195] Originally by: Dianabolic You won't get any apology from us, Calenth. I'm sure you'll sleep well for trying to turn our outrage in to a political tool for your own use, you'll sleep far better for it, in fact, than we ever would - because you don't have the perosonal connection. There is no backpedalling, the reasons we are here are still as valid as they were yesterday, but I guess it takes selective reading for a goon variety to get past all this, to that, right? The idea of a BoB member trying to accuse any of us of using outrage as a political tool is just simply comic and absurd. DEfending ourselves against the baseless political manipulations and misrepresentations of your forum trolls and leadership isn't "turning" anything, it's just replying. As to sleeping well at night, as I've said above, I'm a little sad that so many BoB members have just fallen for their party line, and let themselves get hurt and angry about things that, if they actually took the time to understand our perspective, probably wouldn't be found nearly so offensive. And I'm a little queasy at the thought that I'm playing the same game as people who have so little perspective on life that internet vengeance seems like a more appropriate response to real-life offense than actually listening to an offered apology. But apart from that, yes, my conscience is absolutely clear.
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:08:00 - [196] Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: Dianabolic I'm sure you'll sleep well for trying to turn our outrage in to a political tool for your own use, you'll sleep far better for it, in fact, than we ever would - because you don't have the perosonal connection. You knew a whole lot about what we say on our forums before yesterday. Then you dare smear yourself with blood to score internet points. If this is how you think one should play a game on the internet, you are a disgusting person. i think you are disgusting...because you are ugly tbh. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:08:00 - [197] Originally by: Imran Edited by: Imran on 28/07/2006 20:07:19 oh dude, lets do it! Hopefully our child won't come out as ugly as Blacklight or sweaty ewww and i pray not as hormonally confused as Darko. We are of quality stock, unlike those 3 genetic nightmares!! We will create a supar human internet warrior RAWR!!!!!
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:09:00 - [198] Originally by: Anille Kole I'm trying like heck to be unbiased, but it's pretty dang hard to stop judging GS by its content and not its cover. IE "You're just doing this to beat your chests, btw we killed eleventy-six hundred capital ships." I understand there are a lot of good members in GS, but the ones that spam or sling-mud(such as those referring any post made by BoB, no matter how calm, as e-rage or frothing rage) outnumber them far too much for GS to have anything close to a clean rep on the forums. Yes, I'm an alt. No, I don't expect this post to stay up long, and no, alts aren't allowed. Find a counter to my argument or don't argue it at all, but keep in mind I'm arguing for the basis of BoB's war, albeit an argument likely to be deleted. I'll answer for you Mr Alt, I don't mind alts at all. This is not about BoB spaceships shooting on our spaceships. We are fine with that. This is about BoB accusing 2000+ people, personally, real-life focused and cruelly meant, of very hurtful things, in order to play an internet game slightly better. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:10:00 - [199] Originally by: Imran ps. lol@other bored people at work :) And if you're not at work and youre still typing here zomggetlaidplz. Still waiting for the Goons to demonstrate how they're going to win this little fight :P
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:11:00 - [200] Originally by: Imran i think you are disgusting...because you are ugly tbh. I think you are hot and want to lick your ear until you can't stop moaning. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:11:00 - [201] Originally by: Zimi Vlasic Originally by: Imran Edited by: Imran on 28/07/2006 20:07:19 oh dude, lets do it! Hopefully our child won't come out as ugly as Blacklight or sweaty ewww and i pray not as hormonally confused as Darko. We are of quality stock, unlike those 3 genetic nightmares!! We will create a supar human internet warrior RAWR!!!!! YAYAY SUPAR HUMANZZZ PS EVERBODY PRAY THAT HAKKAR FROM ZUL'GURUB drops fang of faceless for my 60 rouge tonight when i get home!! kk? coz its a 4.7% chance on drop and i really need a good mainhand weapon. WTB +15 Agility enchant on mainhand techII YAYYALOLL!!!! EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:11:00 - [202] Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: Imran i think you are disgusting...because you are ugly tbh. I think you are hot and want to lick your ear until you can't stop moaning. oobaby. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:13:00 - [203] Originally by: Cvuos I'll answer for you Mr Alt, I don't mind alts at all. This is not about BoB spaceships shooting on our spaceships. We are fine with that. This is about BoB accusing 2000+ people, personally, real-life focused and cruelly meant, of very hurtful things, in order to play an internet game slightly better. So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible?
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:14:00 - [204] WTS +15 Agility enchant on mainhand techII 4 isk
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:15:00 - [205] Originally by: Zimi Vlasic WTS +15 Agility enchant on mainhand techII 4 isk oo good deal, crusader later plz. I need to go farm the mats first though EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Ayane Vendre Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:16:00 - [206] Originally by: Avernus My attitude isn't selective, I have trouble finding the hypocrisy I'm apparently guilty of. While you aren't SA, it appears your views are shared by them in this area (no real people on the internet). Btw, it's not genocide, it's Emotional Intelligence Quotient Cleansing; and that's A-OK in my book. Your loss. Also calling me a goon because I have similar views says loads for your personality. To the camps!
Anille Kole Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:17:00 - [207] Edited by: Anille Kole on 28/07/2006 20:18:23 Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: Anille Kole I'm trying like heck to be unbiased, but it's pretty dang hard to stop judging GS by its content and not its cover. IE "You're just doing this to beat your chests, btw we killed eleventy-six hundred capital ships." I understand there are a lot of good members in GS, but the ones that spam or sling-mud(such as those referring any post made by BoB, no matter how calm, as e-rage or frothing rage) outnumber them far too much for GS to have anything close to a clean rep on the forums. Yes, I'm an alt. No, I don't expect this post to stay up long, and no, alts aren't allowed. Find a counter to my argument or don't argue it at all, but keep in mind I'm arguing for the basis of BoB's war, albeit an argument likely to be deleted. I'll answer for you Mr Alt, I don't mind alts at all. This is not about BoB spaceships shooting on our spaceships. We are fine with that. This is about BoB accusing 2000+ people, personally, real-life focused and cruelly meant, of very hurtful things, in order to play an internet game slightly better. If I recall correctly, GoonSwarm has, and I quote, "made a running joke of" Smoske's RL death. Political or not, you as an alliance **ed them off. The sig image was just the final straw, since it pretty clearly revealed that the Goons were still laughing at the Smoske incident. Besides, if your group wished to be treated as individuals(despite the focus on being a gigantic swarm), why would you constantly treat the actions of single people as representative of others? The most recent example is the whole "D2 selling out YW" thread that GS started, but I doubt it would be hard to find a fairly large amount of other situations where they did the same thing. Edit: I saw something which I really should've thought of: Originally by:** Joerd Toastius So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible? ________________________________ Lovable alt. <3
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:18:00 - [208] Originally by: Ayane Vendre Originally by: Avernus My attitude isn't selective, I have trouble finding the hypocrisy I'm apparently guilty of. While you aren't SA, it appears your views are shared by them in this area (no real people on the internet). Btw, it's not genocide, it's Emotional Intelligence Quotient Cleansing; and that's A-OK in my book. Your loss. Also calling me a goon because I have similar views says loads for your personality. To the camps! You're kinda cute in a unibrow, cromagnin, religious zealotish kinda way. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Mr rooflez GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:19:00 - [209] All this is making me sad. I want to fight bob, I'm sure we all do, but not over something like this.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:20:00 - [210] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Cvuos I'll answer for you Mr Alt, I don't mind alts at all. This is not about BoB spaceships shooting on our spaceships. We are fine with that. This is about BoB accusing 2000+ people, personally, real-life focused and cruelly meant, of very hurtful things, in order to play an internet game slightly better. So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible? Well put sir Nemo me impune lacessit
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:20:00 - [211] Originally by: Mr rooflez All this is making me sad. I want to fight bob, I'm sure we all do, but not over something like this. hug EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:23:00 - [212] Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 20:24:05 Originally by: Anille Kole If I recall correctly, GoonSwarm has, and I quote, "made a running joke of" Smoske's RL death. Political or not, you as an alliance **ed them off. The sig image was just the final straw, since it pretty clearly revealed that the Goons were still** laughing at the Smoske incident. . As has been explained many times, Smoske's death has never been a "running joke." The "running joke" has been people who bandwagon onto Smoske's death as a way to make cheap political attacks against Goons. The joke is against people who exploit Smoske's death for troll fodder, not against the deceased. It seems that however many times we explain that, though, people refuse to listen, either out of an excess of uncontrollable anger, deliberate wilfullness, or (at worst) pure machiavellian maneuvering. Eh. If people don't want to understand, we can't make them, but to claim we were "still laughing at the smoske incident" is just a flat out lie, as anyone who has any access to our internal forums would know. The joke has always been mockery of those who exploit the dead to troll Goonfleet, not mockery of the dead man himself.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:23:00 - [213] Originally by: Joerd Toastius I have never seen so many buzz words in my life. Wow, just wow. Do you know that I can't quote your post, there are too many words in it? I'm impressed.
Imran E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:24:00 - [214] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Cvuos I'll answer for you Mr Alt, I don't mind alts at all. This is not about BoB spaceships shooting on our spaceships. We are fine with that. This is about BoB accusing 2000+ people, personally, real-life focused and cruelly meant, of very hurtful things, in order to play an internet game slightly better. So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible? Well put sir thats an awesome sig btw. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful
Avernus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:25:00 - [215] Originally by: Ayane Vendre Originally by: Avernus My attitude isn't selective, I have trouble finding the hypocrisy I'm apparently guilty of. While you aren't SA, it appears your views are shared by them in this area (no real people on the internet). Btw, it's not genocide, it's Emotional Intelligence Quotient Cleansing; and that's A-OK in my book. Your loss. Also calling me a goon because I have similar views says loads for your personality. To the camps! You aren't big on reading comprehension are you? Feel free to point out where I call you a goon; I said you share a view with them that has been made public here. Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:26:00 - [216] Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Joerd Toastius I have never seen so many buzz words in my life. Wow, just wow. Do you know that I can't quote your post, there are too many words in it? I'm impressed. And all used in the technical sense and the proper context, too. How rude of me.
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:32:00 - [217] Originally by: Joerd Toastius So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible? I dont get a flying crap about this whole 'real world', 'internet world' debate, partly because some of you arent even grasping the most basic of concepts that GF members are posting. In the end, it comes down to the FACT that BoB used the memory of a friend to declare war on GoonFleet, and thats just disgusting and stupid. The FACT that BoB has admitted that they have been thinking about this for months, reading our forums for months, looking at that supposed 'last straw' for months, etc should grind it in to some of your heads that this isnt anything more than self important, self righteous internet bullies trying to be e-cool. The fact that so many jumped on this bandwagon including all these random pubbies, supposed BoB enemies, people generally sucking at the BoB power tit, and especially BoB's members really shocked me. I assumed the general intelligence level in EvE was higher than that. What am i saying? Im just kidding myself. Half of you cant even post a simple reply on a web forum without filling it with "QFT" and "TBQH".
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:32:00 - [218] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Joerd Toastius Please use more line breaks :) To adopt your definitions and characterisations (though not to support them entirely) I'm afraid I will have to ask you for further clarification. Please correct my misconceptions: You're saying that the depth of interaction in eve (I believed you referenced teamspeak ealier in the thread) allows for ones eve-persona to become congruent enough with the mundane-persona that the actions of another eve-persona can affect anothers mundane-persona. To whit; what you're saying reduces to that what you say in game can upset someone in real life. Now, if you're going to associate the feelings of eve-personas with mundane-personas so very closely, do you think that it is healthy, social, and appropriate for anyone to "wage a war of elimination" upon someone elses eve-personas? How can you defend anyone who wants to cause that much real-life suffering (my eve-persona and mundane persona are congruent enough that hurting my eve persona upsets me). It seems to me that you lose either way. If eve is "real" than it is unacceptible to fight and cause misery ingame - for the same reasons that it is unacceptible in mundane life. You're hurting real people, and to glory in it means you're likely psychotic. If eve isn't real and war and fighting in eve are entertainment, then it is inadequate and insulting to seek vengance for real life pain in a virtual world. (this is my position) no? Damn. Well argued.
CrestoftheStars GoonFleet	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:35:00 - [219] Edited by: CrestoftheStars on 28/07/2006 20:36:41 Originally by: Sochin Dude, we're playing a game here. Its not like we're marshalling a real OOG army to come hunt your members down. Invading and destroying alliances we don't like is what we do. You keep trying to claim that we've lost our perspective and let video games influence RL, or something (I'm quite confused about what your point is). We've attacked alliances for killing a single frigate of ours unprovoked. We've attacked alliances because they were rude to us. We've attacked alliances just because we thought it would be a laugh. I don't see how we've "lost perspective" by deciding to kill you in the basis that you insulted the memory of our friend and then acted like petulent children on the forums all day. Sounds fair enough to me. I bet all those other alliances you attacked smacked you on here too Shame there is all this additional stuff hanging over it. Should be some good fights in the future though. Originally by: Blacklight I don't know why you're all still debating this, whether that sig on the Goon forums annoyed us enough to decide to destroy you all on it's own or whether it was the straw that broke the camel's back (which to my mind it was) doesn't really matter. We can leave that issue behind us now. You annoyed us, in Eve that means that we can and will come and shoot you. Stop going on about why and play the damn game. In game we don't like Goons. In game we are going to kill you. End of. No need for you to reiterate for the 120447876 time that you think we're overreacting Yeah, fine whatever. Still had to drag all the moral crusade crap into public so you could have a nice song and dance didnt you. Next time just start shooting us, all this forum nonsense hasnt done us, you, or other people who knew him a bit of good. Now we can look forward to another set of 9 paragraph essays where people beat each other over the head with the same points, for the 6th thread in a row.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:35:00 - [220] Originally by: Calenth Turning it into a game issue trivializes the whole matter and pollutes the whole game with emotional nastiness that simply didn't need to be in the game, and wouldn't have been if BoB trolls hadn't brought it there. Explain how attacking you ingame somehow trivialized it. Nemo me impune lacessit
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:35:00 - [221] Edited by: Anti Derivative on 28/07/2006 20:35:26 Originally by: Anille Kole If I recall correctly, GoonSwarm has, and I quote, "made a running joke of" Smoske's RL death. You recall incorrectly.
Tonkin Omega Corp	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:35:00 - [222] right im not sure whats happen cant be botherd looking in forums, what problem has bob got with goons will kill anythin for the right price
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:37:00 - [223] Originally by: Calenth Originally by: Joerd Toastius So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible? BoB took the real-life, out-of-game (and out of context) actions of one Goon member and used that to misrepresent every player in our alliance. It isn't that it's not possible to hurt people in "real life" over a game, it's that doing so is reprehensible because it shows a drastic lack of perspective. If people were hurt in "real life," they should've asked for a real life apology (which was granted). Turning it into a game issue trivializes the whole matter and pollutes the whole game with emotional nastiness that simply didn't need to be in the game, and wouldn't have been if BoB trolls hadn't brought it there. Well, in the first case you're flat-out lying - it clearly doesn't misrepresent every player in your alliance as many of them have since demonstrated. Further, we've also now established that it's entirely possible that many of your players did hurt a lot of BoB players out of game through actions in game, and that said action is reprehensible - and indeed, BoB players claim that this is the case. BoB have then declared war on you in game, and you've claimed somehow that this insults you out of game to some tragic degree? Further, before you say "yes, but some of them said mean things about all Goons", realise that if the actions of some BoB players justify you being angry at all of them and generalising that anger, then equally the actions of some Goon players justify BoB being angry at all Goons in general. In conclusion, your position is riddled with contradiction, which clearly suggests that either a) you're just stupid, or b) that you're simply pretending to be offended in order to score points, a scenario which seems highly likely given that you're alternating protestations of RL hurt with assertions that you don't care about all this stuff and stuff on the internet can't hurt you. The obvious conclusion seems to be that you actually have no interest in representing your actual position accurately or presenting a valid argument, and are just spinning the facts any way that's convenient at the time in order to gain what you perceive as advantages on the forums. Which seems pretty dumb to me, but what do I know? YMMV.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:38:00 - [224] Originally by: Nevvy As long as we go uncrushed we haven't lost. Quoted for future use.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:39:00 - [225] Originally by: Joerd Toastius So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible? No, by bobs logic they have hurt us personally in real life, and want to continue this real life hurt by blowing up our spaceships. Some goons have adopted this position to show the,hopefully apparent, fallacies inherent. By bobs logic (more accurately their presuppositions) they owe us an apology. I hope no goon was genuinely upset by what bob said about us when they should be laughing at the e-rage. By the goon party line, whilst people can take the internet too seriously, it's better not to, (in other words, have a thick skin about what faceless strangers say over text about you and your friends) and it's rather delusional to take this personal hurt into a spaceship shooting game.
Anille Kole Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:40:00 - [226] Originally by: Calenth Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 20:29:00 Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 20:24:05 Originally by: Anille Kole If I recall correctly, GoonSwarm has, and I quote, "made a running joke of" Smoske's RL death. Political or not, you as an alliance **ed them off. The sig image was just the final straw, since it pretty clearly revealed that the Goons were still** laughing at the Smoske incident. . As has been explained many times, Smoske's death has never been a "running joke." The "running joke" has been people who bandwagon onto Smoske's death as a way to make cheap political attacks against Goons. The joke is against people who exploit Smoske's death for troll fodder, not against the deceased. It seems that however many times we explain that, though, people refuse to listen, either out of an excess of uncontrollable anger, deliberate wilfullness, or (at worst) pure machiavellian maneuvering. Eh. If people don't want to understand, we can't make them, but to claim we were "still laughing at the smoske incident" is just a flat out lie, as anyone who has any access to our internal forums or understanding of our culture would know. The joke has always been mockery of those who exploit the dead to troll Goonfleet, not mockery of the dead man himself. Sorry for not believing this, but not only have I seen insults firsthand in the forums, but the average statement you give tends to be just for the sake of propaganda, not truth. Besides, haven't most of you PR types for GS been spouting that "GS/SA has a different type of humor, blah blah, we think it's funny to laugh at people dying"? ________________________________ Lovable alt. <3
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:41:00 - [227] Originally by: Joerd Toastius So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible? More or less yes - without the inconvenient background of course. BoB e-hurt me, personally, on an internet forum, by calling me someone who makes and condones cruel jokes about dead persons. For this, by guilt or assosciation, I am a terrible person. BoB knows, or at least their intel/leaders do, that the jokes made have been at the expense of Remedial, whose stupid convo from way back when, starring Firstname Lastname, gets dragged up at any appropriate time by D2 or others. It then turned into a stupid catchphrase, which goons love to hate, and then came and went like all other jokes do. At worst it was no different than people making jokes about tsunamis, hurricane victims or any other tragedy of which they are not connected to. By not wanting to cause offense, you tell these jokes to your friends, who you know are not connected. That's what we did and that's what you do, and that's what most other people within the Eve demographics do. What BoB did, was to reach their hand way into the GF forums, which they have bragged about having access to before, and pick out something that would strike a tone in the Eve community. Many people here had a personal relation with Smoske. They would not know about this if BoB hadn't decided to rip their shirts and pull it out from their wounds. They could have picked a lot of other things, because just like any other 18-28, mostly male, internet community, we aren't very politically correct in our discussions. But this was the most effective. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Tonkin Omega Corp	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:41:00 - [228] lol how can anyone in eve hurt me in real life lol i find it rather funny, only a few peeps in eve know me in real life and if they did hurt me in real life i very much doubt it will envolve anything arounnd a damn computer game. who ever started that crap should seriousely get laid or turn the damn computer off and get a life. will kill anythin for the right price
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:43:00 - [229] Originally by: Tonkin right im not sure whats happen cant be botherd looking in forums, what problem has bob got with goons Someone got drunk sometime and kissed someones sister and never called the next day.
CrestoftheStars GoonFleet	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:45:00 - [230] Edited by: CrestoftheStars on 28/07/2006 20:45:22 Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Joerd Toastius So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible? No, by bobs logic they have hurt us personally in real life, and want to continue this real life hurt by blowing up our spaceships. Some goons have adopted this position to show the,hopefully apparent, fallacies inherent. By bobs logic (more accurately their presuppositions) they owe us an apology. I hope no goon was genuinely upset by what bob said about us when they should be laughing at the e-rage. By the goon party line, whilst people can take the internet too seriously, it's better not to, (in other words, have a thick skin about what faceless strangers say over text about you and your friends) and it's rather delusional to take this personal hurt into a spaceship shooting game. Look I think Sochin and Blacklight have already been over this. I dont know why goons are going on about taking the internet seriously while writing small novels on why BOB shouldnt be mean to us. As far as I'm concerned we can write whatever we goddamn want on our forums, and if they dont like it, they can stop ****ing reading them.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:45:00 - [231] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Calenth Turning it into a game issue trivializes the whole matter and pollutes the whole game with emotional nastiness that simply didn't need to be in the game, and wouldn't have been if BoB trolls hadn't brought it there. Explain how attacking you ingame somehow trivialized it. I have already, repeatedly. Attacking someone in a video game over a real, genuine offense is something that appears, to me at least, to be trivializing. It's like if someone told me I'd insulted them, and they were so angry they were going to go beat my high score in Galaga or something. The association just doesn't work, and makes the person claiming offense just seem either crazy or dishonest. When people truly offend me in real life, I either ask for an apology or I just disassociate myself from them. If I were ever actually made so angry that I wanted true "vengeance" . . I dunno. I'd like to think that I'd come up with a better vengeance-plan than beating their video game high score. Maybe "living a better life" or something. The very act of claiming one's hurt can actually be assauged by taking video-game vengeance makes the hurt itself seem somewhat unbelievable. Maybe that's part of the culture clash we're seeing here -- it's just hard for some of us to believe there are people in the world who think "real life hurt" == "video game vengeance!", so when we see someone making declarations like that, we're naturally inclined to assume they're either a) crazy or b) faking the whole thing for whatever reason.
Sexual Chocolate Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:46:00 - [232] Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: Joerd Toastius They could have picked a lot of other things, because just like any other 18-28, mostly male, internet community, we aren't very politically correct in our discussions. But this was the most effective. Excuse me sir, But I am 31 not 18-28. Can you please adjust your generalization to include me as well? Thanks much!
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:46:00 - [233] GoonSwarm seems to be taking the postion that "its teh Interweb, and nothing on teh intarweb matters1!!". Then 2000 of them zerg the forums up all upset about the fact that we're attacking them, talking about how unfair it is, ect. You all seem pretty worked up over something that doesn't matter. "e-rage", right? Nemo me impune lacessit
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:48:00 - [234] Originally by: Nova Cygni Originally by: Joerd Toastius So hang on... BoB have hurt you personally in real life by having the temerity to suggest that you guys might've hurt them in real life, something which you claim isn't possible? I dont get a flying crap about this whole 'real world', 'internet world' debate, partly because some of you arent even grasping the most basic of concepts that GF members are posting. In the end, it comes down to the FACT that BoB used the memory of a friend to declare war on GoonFleet, and thats just disgusting and stupid. The FACT that BoB has admitted that they have been thinking about this for months, reading our forums for months, looking at that supposed 'last straw' for months, etc should grind it in to some of your heads that this isnt anything more than self important, self righteous internet bullies trying to be e-cool. The fact that so many jumped on this bandwagon including all these random pubbies, supposed BoB enemies, people generally sucking at the BoB power tit, and especially BoB's members really shocked me. I assumed the general intelligence level in EvE was higher than that. What am i saying? Im just kidding myself. Half of you cant even post a simple reply on a web forum without filling it with "QFT" and "TBQH". Quoting myself.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:49:00 - [235] Originally by: Anille Kole but the average statement you give tends to be just for the sake of propaganda, not truth. ?[/quote Bull**. Don't sit there hiding behind an empire-corp alt and accuse me of saying things that aren't true. I stand by the truth of every single word I've said. SA is a different community, and the jokes we make in our community have a different context. Outsiders who don't understand that context will often find them offensive. But they usually aren't intended as such. There are times when we do go out of our way to offend people (XZH local the other night was a sad example of this), but those are rare, and usually (as in the case of XZH local) the result of prompting. By that point, BoB was basically begging to be insulted and **ed off, so some goons decided to oblige. That's very different from claiming there was an ongoing culture that deliberately intended to offend people outside our membership, which just isn't true.
Sexual Chocolate Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:50:00 - [236] Originally by: Nova Cygni Quoting myself. Thats pretty vain man, gbt fyad, kthx la~
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:50:00 - [237] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Joerd Toastius Please use more line breaks :) To adopt your definitions and characterisations (though not to support them entirely) I'm afraid I will have to ask you for further clarification. Please correct my misconceptions: You're saying that the depth of interaction in eve (I believed you referenced teamspeak ealier in the thread) allows for ones eve-persona to become congruent enough with the mundane-persona that the actions of another eve-persona can affect anothers mundane-persona. To whit; what you're saying reduces to that what you say in game can upset someone in real life. Now, if you're going to associate the feelings of eve-personas with mundane-personas so very closely, do you think that it is healthy, social, and appropriate for anyone to "wage a war of elimination" upon someone elses eve-personas? How can you defend anyone who wants to cause that much real-life suffering (my eve-persona and mundane persona are congruent enough that hurting my eve persona upsets me). It seems to me that you lose either way. If eve is "real" than it is unacceptible to fight and cause misery ingame - for the same reasons that it is unacceptible in mundane life. You're hurting real people, and to glory in it means you're likely psychotic. If eve isn't real and war and fighting in eve are entertainment, then it is inadequate and insulting to seek vengance for real life pain in a virtual world. (this is my position) no? Quote: This is, in almost all cases, not justified - at least some aspects of the presented persona will be drawn directly from the "real" persona, and thus interactions involving those elements will effectively be interactions between the two "real" personas, to some degree at least I'm not postulating a uniform scale of congruence, whereby personas become more congruent in all respects equally along a scale, I'm postulating congruence where some elements are far closer to the "real" persona than others. Where the elements of the persona that you're interacting with include those which are very similar to the real person, it's likely that you'll be causing the person some degree of discomfort or pain IRL, depending on how well they separate personas. This isn't necessarily a "bad" thing, but it is I'd suggest "morally undesirable" at least where you've got good grounds to believe that the similarities, links and dependencies in question exist. In other words, if there's good reason to believe that you're attacking an aspect of an eve persona which corresponds very close to their real persona, then you effectively have good reason to believe that you're attacking the real persona more-or-less directly. In the vast, overwhelming majority of Eve players, the bit of the persona you attack by declaring war on them in the normal way is obviously nothing to do with their real persona, for the simple reason that most people do not fly space ships in real life. If, however, you know that there's overwhelming evidence that the part of someone's eve persona which claims that they care a lot about a guy they knew IRL and who was killed tragically is entirely representative of that aspect of their RL persona, then by attacking that element of their eve persona you're clearly and knowingly launching an attack on their RL persona and they're fully justified in being upset about it IRL. Clear yet?
Agent Kenshin Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:53:00 - [238] Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 28/07/2006 20:54:28 GF dont seem to understand how the EVE community operates. How many of you have been to a Fanfest or other EVE gathering? How many of you have met the Devs? How many of you have met players from other alliances? Met the people in your own alliance? And im talking about actually sitting down outside of the game at a pub or bar and actually talking to them over a few beers and some food. It appears to me that this SA forum you belong too is nothing like EVE. I doubt you guys have gatherings of players to meet and have fun outside of your games. Thats the thing about EVE its not like other games in anyway. The community is the game. And more so EVE isnt a game that you can play like these other million subscriber games. Originally by: MAXSuicide only carebears call pvpers 'greifers' ehehehh....
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:55:00 - [239] Originally by: Agent Kenshin It appears to me that this SA forum you belong too is nothing like EVE. I doubt you guys have gatherings of players to meet and have fun outside of your games. Thats the thing about EVE its not like other games in anyway. The community is the game. And more so EVE isnt a game that you can play like these other million subscriber games. The hillarity of this post has no bounds. Goons dont have meets, you see! That is where we fail! Ruh roh.
Sexual Chocolate Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:55:00 - [240] Originally by: Agent Kenshin Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 28/07/2006 20:54:28 GF dont seem to understand how the EVE community operates. How many of you have been to a Fanfest or other EVE gathering? How many of you have met the Devs? How many of you have met players from other alliances? Met the people in your own alliance? And im talking about actually sitting down outside of the game at a pub or bar and actually talking to them over a few beers and some food. It appears to me that this SA forum you belong too is nothing like EVE. I doubt you guys have gatherings of players to meet and have fun outside of your games. Thats the thing about EVE its not like other games in anyway. The community is the game. And more so EVE isnt a game that you can play like these other million subscriber games. SA has an entire forum devoted to goonmeets.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:55:00 - [241] Originally by: Sochin GoonSwarm seems to be taking the postion that "its teh Interweb, and nothing on teh intarweb matters1!!". Then 2000 of them zerg the forums up all upset about the fact that we're attacking them, talking about how unfair it is, ect. You all seem pretty worked up over something that doesn't matter. "e-rage", right? Stop repeating this. We are not upset about you attacking us. We have eagerly been expecting it. It is the ultimate challenge in Eve, in-game respect intended. That's what we seek. We are upset about you involving us, unjustly, with the mockery of a person's death. The guys that harvest intel for you know this perfectly well. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Anille Kole Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:56:00 - [242] Originally by: Calenth Originally by: Anille Kole but the average statement you give tends to be just for the sake of propaganda, not truth. ? Bull**. Don't sit there hiding behind an empire-corp alt and accuse me of saying things that aren't true. I stand by the truth of every single word I've said. SA is a different community, and the jokes we make in our community have a different context. Outsiders who don't understand that context will often find them offensive. But they usually aren't intended as such. There are times when we do go out of our way to offend people (XZH local the other night was a sad example of this), but those are rare, and usually (as in the case of XZH local) the result of prompting. By that point, BoB was basically begging to be insulted and *ed off, so some goons decided to oblige. That's very different from claiming there was an ongoing culture that deliberately intended to offend people outside our membership, which just isn't true. And you likewise shouldn't hide behind a cropped quote. However, continuing my accusation of propaganda, in which I generalized most of the GS PR, not you specifically*, right now you are skimming close to lies by completely ignoring everything but the one small comment that you can expand into a "frothing rage"-based paragraph. In effect, propaganda. While much of what you say can't even be considered a lie, because it is opinion, you are shifty, and don't "follow the rules". They aren't seeking to properly inform people without bias; they're seeking to convince them to think how you'd like them to because you completely ignore any opposing evidence while focusing on any single point or half-truth you can twist in your favor. ________________________________ Lovable alt. <3
Jazz Bo Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:03:00 - [243] Originally by: Marko Debreault Originally by: Avernus The Goons seem to take some pride in being an insular community. They're coming off as some kind of club that is here with us but playing a different game. Goonswarm are an elitist group who seem to say they don't care what we think because of their out of game relationships and history. Isn't this exactly what BoB have been telling us all along? That they are "different" from all the others. They are so special they carefully choose who they ask to join their glorious ranks. That they are miles ahead of everyone else in skill, strategy and sheer will power. And haven't we been told how BoB can never be broken "because the leaders are RL friends"? And how many times have we been told that "Bob don't care what we think" of this and that? A thousand? Ten thousand perhaps? So... the two are not that different after all. Quote: People who have won the forum wars are groups like Burn Eden, who kill a ton and use ECM and stabs, and so are easy to hate, but post intelligently and with humor - so you begin to respect the player on the other side of the internet. Erm... post intelligently and with humor... people like Fragm and co. ? Respect? Are you on drugs?
Toffles GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:07:00 - [244] BoB, you are sick twisted people. You say we crossed the line but the second you started making threats to drive over to our houses and physically harm us you cross a much BIGGER line. The fact that you publicly state that 90% of bob will be contemplating "leveling" us at the next eve convention is far worse than the fact that 1 retard did something tasteless to be "edgey". The fact that you think it is okay to talk about driving over to our houses to physically assault us is taking things WAY TO FAR. I know of at least one person who is not going to the next eve convention due to fearing he will be attacked by BoB members. If you think this is acceptable in any way you have some serious issues to sort out. It's one thing to be the biggest bully in eve, but when you start trying to be a bully in real life you will find the consequences are far worse. You have done something worse than what Tetsujin did. I want to watch you try and defend this. How you think hurting someone's feelings is worse than hurting someone physically. How you think you have any right to intimidate ANY eve player out of attending an eve convention.
Agent Kenshin Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:08:00 - [245] Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 28/07/2006 21:12:31 Originally by: Nova Cygni Originally by: Agent Kenshin It appears to me that this SA forum you belong too is nothing like EVE. I doubt you guys have gatherings of players to meet and have fun outside of your games. Thats the thing about EVE its not like other games in anyway. The community is the game. And more so EVE isnt a game that you can play like these other million subscriber games. The hillarity of this post has no bounds. Goons dont have meets, you see! That is where we fail! Ruh roh. Yes and they still fail to see how badly every post they make does them no justice. I mainly posted to find out exactly what happens in there. Have to be curious. Fact of the matter is the EVE community is tighter knit than the SA/GF community is and your trying to assimilate your way into this community and its not working out very well. EDIT- Not so much the above statement but trying to merge 2 communities doesnt work very well. Originally by: MAXSuicide only carebears call pvpers 'greifers' ehehehh....
Andre Carnegi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:12:00 - [246] Originally by: Agent Kenshin Originally by: Nova Cygni Originally by: Agent Kenshin It appears to me that this SA forum you belong too is nothing like EVE. I doubt you guys have gatherings of players to meet and have fun outside of your games. Thats the thing about EVE its not like other games in anyway. The community is the game. And more so EVE isnt a game that you can play like these other million subscriber games. The hillarity of this post has no bounds. Goons dont have meets, you see! That is where we fail! Ruh roh. Yes and they still fail to see how badly every post they make does them no justice. I mainly posted to find out exactly what happens in there. Have to be curious. Fact of the matter is the EVE community is tighter knit than the SA/GF community is and your trying to assimilate your way into this community and its not working out very well. This is silly. "My community is more tightly knit than your community!" But you've never been to goonmeet, which are a lot of fun, and really great activities. So I don't think you should make these kinds of comparisions. Especially in light of the fact that you don't know very much about the SA forums, other than that it's the point of origin for GF. I imagine EVE events are a lot of fun too, but this week has shown that there's too much passion and not enough humour among the bigger EVE players.
Agent Kenshin Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:13:00 - [247] Not at least when it comes to certain things. Originally by: MAXSuicide only carebears call pvpers 'greifers' ehehehh....
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:20:00 - [248] Edited by: Crivens on 28/07/2006 21:23:58 Originally by: Joerd Toastius In the vast, overwhelming majority of Eve players, the bit of the persona you attack by declaring war on them in the normal way is obviously nothing to do with their real persona, for the simple reason that most people do not fly space ships in real life. If, however, you know that there's overwhelming evidence that the part of someone's eve persona which claims that they care a lot about a guy they knew IRL and who was killed tragically is entirely representative of that aspect of their RL persona, then by attacking that element of their eve persona you're clearly and knowingly launching an attack on their RL persona and they're fully justified in being upset about it IRL. Clear yet? No, actually i'm rather unsure how what you wrote is a response to me. From the above paragraph i'm understanding that you're arguing that by smoske jokes (usual disclaimers about being made by a minority, were not actually smoske jokes but rather responses to the continued dredging up of smoske in every goon thread apply) goon upset bob (lets just talk about two individuals here, goon and bob) Bob was upset "IRL" because of the congruence between his eve persona where he flew with smoske (I really wish I knew his real name - it seems disrespectful of me to talk about this eve characted as if it were a real person who is dead)and his mundane-persona. I think I can agree with that. Bob has a close congruence with his online persona and not-online persona (or as goons would have it: he takes the internet too seriously) but I think we can both agree your terminology sounds nicer. But I allowed this possibility in my response: by your definitions (and possibly the reality, I don't know bob to ask) bob is genuinely upset, how is it adequate or appropriate for him to express this hurt by a genocide on goon - who is much less congruent with his online persona, to the extent that whatever happens to goon does not affect the person controlling goon. If bob does try to express this real life hurt in an arena where goon CANNOT be hurt. Bob is just impotent and pathetic - seemingly lashing out ineffectually and childishly, whilst claiming the moral high ground for his hurt. Whilst I can offer no a prori argument, I think most adults would agree that no impotent attempt to hurt another as a display of real life hurt is appropriate, respectful of the dead, or mature. And to glory in the attempt is pathetic. To reword: You yourself state that only some aspects of the eve-persona can be said to be really congruent with the real-persona. Hence you avoid the "psychotic" conclusion. But by this very argument you must admit the possibility that goons are not at all congruent with what happens to their eve-persona: to the extent that blowing up their ships and taking their space can afford real-life hurt. Goons do not, real life, care what bob does to their eve characters. Thus carrying out these actions in an attempt to cause real life hurt makes bob impotent, inappropriate and immature. Unless i'm missing something, using your definitions the only two conclusions I can reach starting from the assumption that bob is real life hurt is that he is either psychotic or impotent. If he is not real life hurt, then he is using his friends dead body for cheap e-political gain, all the while accusing goon of being disrespectful. Psychotic, impotent or using his friends real and very final death for cheap virtual gain. Which? (edited for spelling, some clarification and rewording. I'm aware some of this post is not crystal clear.)
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:21:00 - [249] I get worked up about it and they laugh at me too. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Mikhailov GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:21:00 - [250] Honestly the majority of Goons playing this game are laughing at all of you for getting so worked up about all of this. You're giving us tons of attention with your poorly typed forum rantings and in-game actions. We're loving it. Please keep it up!! There is no such thing as negative attention in a game. Its all just attention. Even BoB knows that.
Ouabain GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:25:00 - [251] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Still waiting for the Goons to demonstrate how they're going to win this little fight :P I've been thinking about this and I'm going to try and answer as best I can, having played for only 2 months. Goons will never quit, our loyalty to our corp won't waver, because we have nowhere else to go. When a normal player starts playing EVE, he has to work himself into a corp and slowly climb the ladder, when a Goon joins EVE, he goes straight into the highest level of the game and gets to fight with the big boys, blow up dreads, posses and T2 ships right from the start. I know from non Goon friends who play that starting as a newbie with no friends is nowhere near as enjoyable as this. Being a target for the most powerful alliance in the game is scary, but it's more fun than being a total nobody, we are recognised, even if that recognition is hatred, and this makes playing fun. No matter how many times we die, how much we are chased, how much money we lose, we will keep fighting for the swarm. We will be a constant occupation for our enemies, making them vulnerable to anyone else who wants a piece, and we will show everyone that it is better to fight, win or lose, than to not fight at all. We make EVE interesting with our prescence. And while we may not be the most powerful corp in the game we grow in strength every day. The thousand people in crusiers and frigates now will be in battleships next year, and then no-one will be our superior. Those who want to be our friends know that we are loyal, we don't stab people in the back for realpolitik. The more we grow, the more friends we will have, because those who play with us know they can trust us, and know our strength and how it can benefit them. But our biggest advantage, the one that will ensure that we will be the dominant force in EVE, is that we have a recrutiment pool which no other alliance can even dream of, non-EVE Goons. A pool of nearly a hundred thousand, hundreds of which join every single time we have a recruitment drive. The growth of our alliance since I played a trial several months back has astounded me, and yet this is nowhere near what our final strength will be. And this pool doesn't work like any other big alliances recruitment, we take on people from all walks of life, people with every day jobs, but also people from jobs with the expertise to help us. People from the military, to help our war strategy, people in politics, to help our negotiations, programmers, to design useful software to aid our efforts, accountants, to run our finances, speechwriters, to inspire us, artists, to design propoganda posters, musicians, to give us cool tunes, administrators, to administrate, and countless other fields which we can use. The recruitment pool for any other major alliance, and I'm going to generalise here, are mostly nerds, people who exist to play EVE. Finally, we have an incredible level of organisation, because of all of the above. I am absolutely sure that no other alliance has the discipline and shared knowledge of the mechanics of the game that we do. Yes we might act like jerks sometimes, but that's not how we treat each other and our friends, it's Goon humor, and it's here to stay. We may lose this battle we are in, we may lose 10, or 100, but we will win the war, because we are Goons and we have a community that no one can equal. Fear us, for we are the destroyer of the galaxy as you know it. Wet Dog
Pr1at Bunny	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:27:00 - [252] Some people just dont learn ... dont they .
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:30:00 - [253] Originally by: Anille Kole Besides, haven't most of you PR types for GS been spouting that "GS/SA has a different type of humor, blah blah, we think it's funny to laugh at people dying"? Close, but no. A better definition would be that goons in general laugh at the kind of people who get angry when other people joke about people dying (and make fun of people who take the internet 'seriously' - something I have already mentioned I hate). I guarantee the only reason any goons might have been mentioning anything in the past few days is because they know that it winds you all up. They are trolling you deliberately because they know it winds you up. I can also guarantee, more importantly, that Tetsujin would not have had that signature, and that nobody in goonfleet would even mention it, not to say know about it, if the subject was not brought up in every single thread about goonfleet/remedial by someone trying to make a cheap shot against us, with an incident that happened way before we were formed. These cheap shots are what insult the memory of your friend. Remember happy times, and not just bring it up as a battle cry. How would you feel if people made wars in a virtual space game over your name after you died (I myself, would be horrified at the prospect). Also, making light of death certainly isn't anything new, or much to get offended about. See, Darwin Awards. If you have read the darwin awards and found them amusing, then you are completely hypocritical getting righteous about people making light of another purely because you happened to know them. Everybody has friends, even people you don't know. In fact if you can't make light of death years after it has happened I'd be worried. Despite these points I agree that people have been going over the top and making many inappropriate remarks that shouldn't have. I have no problem with Bob going to war with us - it means that we don't have to go back to repetitive mining ratting for an unspecified length of time. Wars are what makes this game interesting - without anything to do I'd probably get bored and quit within a month/few weeks. I just think it's a slightly unhealthy excuse for doing so. I would have respected much more a post saying 'We are bored, so we are attacking x' (incidentally much like the reason we initially invaded NORAD space)
Jazz Bo Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:30:00 - [254] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Blacklight In game we are going to kill you. Except BoB is making threats to harm goons in real life on their forums. You guys have serious issues and don't have a clue about keeping it "in game". Proof please. Got quotes? How about your own post on the previous page? Quote: I think with the revenue generated from that you could afford a decent and painless euthanisia (I hear helium is good) to end yourself and furhter prove darwins theory. You may not be technically threatening to harm them, but even insinuating that they should kill themselves in real life is way out of line. PS. I used to like when you were still in FE although we were at war, you were calm and had a sense of humor. What happened? PPS. All of you, Bob and Goons should just take a step back and take it ingame. It'll be more fun for both of you.
deadEd	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:31:00 - [255] Edited by: deadEd on 28/07/2006 21:31:37 Originally by: Ouabain Finally, we have an incredible level of organisation, because of all of the above. I am absolutely sure that no other alliance has the discipline and shared knowledge of the mechanics of the game that we do. You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it.
fmercury Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:34:00 - [256] Originally by: Ouabain Finally, we have an incredible level of organisation, because of all of the above. I am absolutely sure that no other alliance has the discipline and shared knowledge of the mechanics of the game that we do. Hahaahahah, you can't be serious.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:34:00 - [257] Originally by: Crivens Stuff Firstly, by characterising it as "taking the internet too seriously", you're missing the point. The bits that are being taken seriously are the bits which extent beyond the internet - to the bits from teamspeak, which is an order of magnitude more "real" (in your terminology) than textual interaction, and the bits from actual face-to-face interaction, which are as "real" as they can get. The internet bits are largely irrelevant - the only important bits are the bits which are left when you strip away all the elements of the persona which are only manifested on the "internet" (ie text chat). As to what BoB are doing, GF's online personas have caused BoB's RL personas pain, so BoB's RL personas have decided to eradicate GF's online personas in their entirety. The degree to which this hurts GF's real personas is exactly proportional to the degree of similarity between their real and online personas, and thus to the degree to which their real personas are both responsible for the actions in question and will feel pain from BoB's answering actions. If you treat BoB's war as simply one of eliminating something which they find unpleasant and are no longer prepared to tolerate, then it's entirely rational and justified. Basically, they've decided that they don't want to deal with the Goon personas in game any more so they've decided to remove them from the game. I see no problem with this or any particular reason to view this decision in a negative light. Everything else is just spin and propaganda, as far as I can see. @ Oubain that was a throwaway comment to explain why I've got time to write all this, but if you want to take it seriously, I ask you a simple question: how effective are you going to be when you're respawning from Syndicate (which will be camped by BoB) every time you die?
Eloryan Persago Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:34:00 - [258] All I have to say is the following: The following Alliances/Corporations have attempted to attack us in Syndicate: 1. Black Reign Syndicate 2. Supremecy 3. NBSI Where are these alliances now _________________________________________ Anything posted by this character does not represent Goonfleet and/or Goonswarm, anything said which may offend you was probably said because I meant it
Wodin Drukvik GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:35:00 - [259] Edited by: Wodin Drukvik on 28/07/2006 21:35:26 Originally by: deadEd You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. Don't worry, it is just the newbies.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:36:00 - [260] Edited by: DB Preacher on 28/07/2006 21:36:03 rofl, Save your false indignation fools and hurry up removing your pos out of XZH. We're waiting. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:36:00 - [261] Originally by: Anille Kole And you likewise shouldn't hide behind a cropped quote. However, continuing my accusation of propaganda, in which I generalized most of the GS PR, not you specifically, right now you are skimming close to lies by completely ignoring everything but the one small comment that you can expand into a "frothing rage"-based paragraph. In effect, propaganda. While much of what you say can't even be considered a lie, because it is opinion, you are shifty, and don't "follow the rules". They aren't seeking to properly inform people without bias; they're seeking to convince them to think how you'd like them to because you completely ignore any opposing evidence while focusing on any single point or half-truth you can twist in your favor. If you spin things any faster we could hook you up to a turbine and solve California's energy problems. Nothing I've said has been in any way a lie, and every word you've spewed has been dribbled forth from behind the empire-alt mask of someone too ashamed of what they say to do so with an actual character.
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:37:00 - [262] Edited by: Xgkkp on 28/07/2006 21:38:15 Originally by: deadEd You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. Yes, there is a lifecycle in goonfleet, that begins as a newbie, and ends in a 'Bitter Vet (tm)' that explodes in a puff of drama and leaves the corp. The trick is, can we get enough new players in faster than the older ones leave. Hmm, I wonder what the half-life of a goonfleet member is. Originally by: DB Preacher rofl, Save your false indignation fools and hurry up removing your pos out of XZH. We're waiting. Didn't you hear? Syndicate is where alliances come to die.
Arath Veduran Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:38:00 - [263] Originally by: deadEd Edited by: deadEd on 28/07/2006 21:31:37 Originally by: Ouabain Finally, we have an incredible level of organisation, because of all of the above. I am absolutely sure that no other alliance has the discipline and shared knowledge of the mechanics of the game that we do. You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. We have players on trial accounts in major ops. We have 1-2 month guys leading gangs. We have people spending their very first day in Eve in 0.0 space. Do you know of any other corps or alliances that even come close to this?
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:40:00 - [264] Originally by: Agent Kenshin EDIT- Not so much the above statement but trying to merge 2 communities doesnt work very well. We were perfectly happy off in our own little preserve, until BoB trolls forcibly merged the two communities to cause drama and stage a pretext for a video game war.
Ouabain GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:41:00 - [265] Edited by: Ouabain on 28/07/2006 21:43:18 Originally by: deadEd You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. Even if it isn't true, it doesn't matter, because everything else we have going for us will mean we will win in the end. If it's foolhardy bravado so be it, better to be a brave fool than a smart coward. Wet Dog
deadEd	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:41:00 - [266] Originally by: Arath Veduran You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. We have players on trial accounts in major ops. We have 1-2 month guys leading gangs. We have people spending their very first day in Eve in 0.0 space. Do you know of any other corps or alliances that even come close to this? I don't know of any other meaningful corps/alliances that would even bother recruiting trial account players, so it's really kind of a moot point. Also having 1-2 month old guys leading fleets isnt really something to brag about.
John Moscroft GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:41:00 - [267] Edited by: John Moscroft on 28/07/2006 21:41:43 Originally by: Xgkkp Edited by: Xgkkp on 28/07/2006 21:38:15 Originally by: deadEd You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. Yes, there is a lifecycle in goonfleet, that begins as a newbie, and ends in a 'Bitter Vet (tm)' that explodes in a puff of drama and leaves the corp. The trick is, can we get enough new players in faster than the older ones leave. Hmm, I wonder what the half-life of a goonfleet member is. The lifecycle of a Goonswarm member: 1. Newbie 2. The Ninja Miner 3. Frigate 4. FC 5. SPYAD Posting FC Who Steals Loot Instead of Placing It in the Taxes Hangar 6. FMercury
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:43:00 - [268] Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 28/07/2006 21:36:03 rofl, Save your false indignation fools and hurry up removing your pos out of XZH. We're waiting. dbp The idea that, after the antics of BoB trolls and leaders over these forums over the past few days, you could call our indignation "false" is either hilarious or pathetic.
deadEd	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:43:00 - [269] Originally by: Ouabain Even if it isn't true, it doesn't matter, because everything else we have going for us will mean we will win in the end. If it's foolhardy bravado so be it, better to be a brave fool than a smart coward. The only way you'll always 'win' is if your victory conditions are 'still having accounts that play'. Isn't that the same train of thought you guys used to make fun of NORAD for having?
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:43:00 - [270] Originally by: Arath Veduran Originally by: deadEd Edited by: deadEd on 28/07/2006 21:31:37 Originally by: Ouabain Finally, we have an incredible level of organisation, because of all of the above. I am absolutely sure that no other alliance has the discipline and shared knowledge of the mechanics of the game that we do. You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. We have players on trial accounts in major ops. We have 1-2 month guys leading gangs. We have people spending their very first day in Eve in 0.0 space. Do you know of any other corps or alliances that even come close to this? I'll tell you this, I've not seen any group go from being treated "indifferently" to being treated with hostility as fast as you guys have.
Arath Veduran Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:44:00 - [271] Edited by: Arath Veduran on 28/07/2006 21:45:04 Originally by: deadEd Originally by: Arath Veduran You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. We have players on trial accounts in major ops. We have 1-2 month guys leading gangs. We have people spending their very first day in Eve in 0.0 space. Do you know of any other corps or alliances that even come close to this? I don't know of any other meaningful corps/alliances that would even bother recruiting trial account players, so it's really kind of a moot point. Also having 1-2 month old guys leading fleets isnt really something to brag about. It is when they're doing as well as the 1-2 year old guys. Edit: also, please include your corp and alliance under your name.
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:44:00 - [272] Edited by: Xgkkp on 28/07/2006 21:45:22 Originally by: John Moscroft The lifecycle of a Goonswarm member: I think by the time they get to stage 4 they usually have a more realistic perspective. Originally by: deadEd The only way you'll always 'win' is if your victory conditions are 'still having accounts that play'. Isn't that the same train of thought you guys used to make fun of NORAD for having? News at 10 Goons can be hypocritical too. Come off it, every single person who posts on these forums can be accused of the same. Is it bad to believe that you are better than others? (Evidently, unless you are Bob, it is)
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:44:00 - [273] Originally by: Calenth Originally by: Agent Kenshin EDIT- Not so much the above statement but trying to merge 2 communities doesnt work very well. We were perfectly happy off in our own little preserve, until BoB trolls forcibly merged the two communities to cause drama and stage a pretext for a video game war. More tears. Buhu. I thought u guys were meant to be less wet than anyone else?
Tholarim Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:45:00 - [274] Originally by: Xgkkp Edited by: Xgkkp on 28/07/2006 21:38:15 Originally by: deadEd You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. Yes, there is a lifecycle in goonfleet, that begins as a newbie, and ends in a 'Bitter Vet (tm)' that explodes in a puff of drama and leaves the corp. The trick is, can we get enough new players in faster than the older ones leave. Hmm, I wonder what the half-life of a goonfleet member is. Originally by: DB Preacher rofl, Save your false indignation fools and hurry up removing your pos out of XZH. We're waiting. Didn't you hear? Syndicate is where alliances come to die. Then hurry up in comming back allready.
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:46:00 - [275] Originally by: Tholarim Then hurry up in comming back allready. Come help us crush D2 in XZH then we'll hurry back quicker
Ouabain GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:46:00 - [276] Edited by: Ouabain on 28/07/2006 21:47:04 Originally by: Dianabolic I'll tell you this, I've not seen any group go from being treated "indifferently" to being treated with hostility as fast as you guys have. It was going to happen sooner or later, we've pretty much angered the entire internet, hostility from those more powerful than us is nothing new or worrying. Wet Dog
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:46:00 - [277] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Basically, they've decided that they don't want to deal with the Goon personas in game any more so they've decided to remove them from the game. Impotent then, and likely stupid too. If bob doesn't want to cause hurt but rather remove goon from the game because goon upsets them, they will find themselves unable to remove the goons from game (as another player cannot force another from the game - only make it more attractive for them to leave the game themselves). Stupid because they will likely - even if they somehow force goonfleet to disband - find some goons quite happy to put alts in the npc stations owned by bob and tell off colour jokes in local whilst they browse SA - thus they have not stopped goons from hurting them, and will rather find the problem exacerbated. I'm also going to go with pathetic: consider they want to remove goon from the game. A game. That's like Manchester United breaking the legs of Bolton's players to remove them from the game. Adults don't "remove people from the game" - especially not people who have just as much right to play and garner enjoyment from the game as they do - especially not nearly 3000 people for the actions of less than 5.
Anille Kole Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:46:00 - [278] Originally by: Calenth Originally by: Anille Kole And you likewise shouldn't hide behind a cropped quote. However, continuing my accusation of propaganda, in which I generalized most of the GS PR, not you specifically, right now you are skimming close to lies by completely ignoring everything but the one small comment that you can expand into a "frothing rage"-based paragraph. In effect, propaganda. While much of what you say can't even be considered a lie, because it is opinion, you are shifty, and don't "follow the rules". They aren't seeking to properly inform people without bias; they're seeking to convince them to think how you'd like them to because you completely ignore any opposing evidence while focusing on any single point or half-truth you can twist in your favor. If you spin things any faster we could hook you up to a turbine and solve California's energy problems. Nothing I've said has been in any way a lie, and every word you've spewed has been dribbled forth from behind the empire-alt mask of someone too ashamed of what they say to do so with an actual character. You're accusing me of spin? That's laughable at best. Accusing me of being ashamed of my opinion because I post with an alt is no better. I post with an alt because, as with many organizations within EVE, no group wants to be poorly represented by random members, and as such impose restrictions on posting in this type of forum. By posting with an anonymous character, I can not only avoid being instantly judged to be biased for or against something, but I can avoid tarnishing my organization in the minds of anyone who may be against what I say. A word of warning, though: The discussion between us seems to be progressing towards conduct liable to get deleted, so I suggest toning things down. ________________________________ Lovable alt. <3
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:48:00 - [279] Originally by: Dianabolic . I'll tell you this, I've not seen any group go from being treated "indifferently" to being treated with hostility as fast as you guys have. there have always been a few people out there with a hardon for raging about how horrible goonfleet was, and some of them have been in BoB for a long time. Those people just staged a Troll Attack that a lot of BoB members fell for. We could've all been snow-white virgin nuns and there would still have been people in the "super vet" alliances like BoB that had sand in their ass over the idea of newbie corps taking conquerable space -- it's no coincidence at all this is happenning the weekend GS was about to finish establishing our first hold over conquerable space. As soon as we moved into the "big leagues," the long-term grudge holders started dredging up whatever they could from months in the past to get everyone ****ed off and try to chase us back down again.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:49:00 - [280] Originally by: Anille Kole You're accusing me of spin? That's laughable at best. Accusing me of being ashamed of my opinion because I post with an alt is no better. I post with an alt because, as with many organizations within EVE, no group wants to be poorly represented by random members, and as such impose restrictions on posting in this type of forum. By posting with an anonymous character, I can not only avoid being instantly judged to be biased for or against something, but I can avoid tarnishing my organization in the minds of anyone who may be against what I say. A word of warning, though: The discussion between us seems to be progressing towards conduct liable to get deleted, so I suggest toning things down.[/quote Nice alt post.
Ouabain GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:50:00 - [281] Edited by: Ouabain on 28/07/2006 21:50:21 Originally by: Tholarim Then hurry up in comming back allready. We're not going to come back just because you're there, we have things to do elsewhere and we're doing them, we'll deal with you when we have to. Wet Dog
Tak Yahsho GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:51:00 - [282] Apparently step 1 in making our alliance die is camping my production alt in the station Pro-tip: she doesn't undock Goons are in XZH if you haven't noticed Or this may be the build-up to the "HARRR! WE DROVE THE GOONS FROM SYNDICATE!!!" thread
NOObbody Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:52:00 - [283] Originally by: Tak Yahsho Goons are in XZH if you haven't noticed That story in over now.
arjun	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:52:00 - [284] Edited by: arjun on 28/07/2006 21:52:36 mr calenth. maybe i repeat myself here but u were not about to finish your first foothold in conquerable space. you failed and bob has nothing to do with it.
Jon Ominor Magellanic Itg GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:53:00 - [285] Edited by: Jon Ominor on 28/07/2006 21:53:56 Originally by: Dianabolic More tears. Buhu. I thought u guys were meant to be less wet than anyone else? That's an awful lot of consonants for so few words. But we're not the ones crying over "merging" into the "EVE community". You guys are crying over it. You are the ones who are crying here, not us.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:53:00 - [286] Originally by: Eloryan Persago All I have to say is the following: The following Alliances/Corporations have attempted to attack us in Syndicate: 1. Black Reign Syndicate 2. Supremecy 3. NBSI Where are these alliances now AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh man you're going to be suprised Nemo me impune lacessit
Arath Veduran Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:54:00 - [287] Originally by: NOObbody Originally by: Tak Yahsho Goons are in XZH if you haven't noticed That story in over now. Whether it takes a week, a month, or a year, we will have XZH.
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:54:00 - [288] Originally by: Dianabolic I thought u guys were meant to be less wet than anyone else? I am totally wet right now :licks:
Marko Debreault 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:56:00 - [289] Right now the Goons are creating the perception that they have an "us vs. the rest of the EVE community" mentality. I guess I am glad its out in the open.
Eloryan Persago Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:56:00 - [290] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Eloryan Persago All I have to say is the following: The following Alliances/Corporations have attempted to attack us in Syndicate: 1. Black Reign Syndicate 2. Supremecy 3. NBSI Where are these alliances now AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh man you're going to be suprised I like suprises! Do not ruin it for me..... IS IT A PUPPY?! _________________________________________ Anything posted by this character does not represent Goonfleet and/or Goonswarm, anything said which may offend you was probably said because I meant it
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:57:00 - [291] Originally by: NOObbody Originally by: Tak Yahsho Goons are in XZH if you haven't noticed That story in over now. What? That story in over now.That story in over now. That story in over now.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:57:00 - [292] Originally by: Eloryan Persago Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Eloryan Persago All I have to say is the following: The following Alliances/Corporations have attempted to attack us in Syndicate: 1. Black Reign Syndicate 2. Supremecy 3. NBSI Where are these alliances now AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh man you're going to be suprised I like suprises! Do not ruin it for me..... IS IT A PUPPY?! Actually, its an Emu. Its sort of like an Ostrich, but lays cooler eggs. Nemo me impune lacessit
Rapturea Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:57:00 - [293] Instead of sifting through 10+ pages of muck, can someone give a tldr version? When I was a kid my favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. After school we'd all go play in his cave, and every once in a while he would eat one of us. It wasn't until later that I found out that Uncle Caveman was a bear. -jack handy
Anti Derivative Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:58:00 - [294] Originally by: FATE LOL That story in over now.That story in over now. what happen
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 21:58:00 - [295] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Calenth Originally by: Agent Kenshin EDIT- Not so much the above statement but trying to merge 2 communities doesnt work very well. We were perfectly happy off in our own little preserve, until BoB trolls forcibly merged the two communities to cause drama and stage a pretext for a video game war. More tears. Buhu. I thought u guys were meant to be less wet than anyone else? It's BooHoo. That story in over now.
DeadDuck Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:00:00 - [296] Originally by: Arath Veduran Whether it takes a week, a month, or a year, we will have XZH. Wasnt supposed to be this weekend ?
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:00:00 - [297] Originally by: Anti Derivative Originally by: FATE LOL That story in over now.That story in over now. what happen I dunno. That story in over now.
News Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:01:00 - [298] This has got to be the biggest and longest 'oh noes people are coming for us' whine I've ever seen on these forums. Give it a rest already, not even a million posts on these forums are going to help you with this one. Saying how unfair/hypocritical/paranoid/great/wonderful/whatever it is, isn't going to change the fact that BoB are out to get you. Oh, and make sure that not all of you hide deep in an NPC station in 0.0. Bring some cannonfodder up to empire, don't disappoint our pilots by not giving them anything to shoot at.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:02:00 - [299] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Arath Veduran Whether it takes a week, a month, or a year, we will have XZH. Wasnt supposed to be this weekend ? Haven't you heard? That story in over now. That story in over now.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:02:00 - [300] Originally by: Marko Debreault Right now the Goons are creating the perception that they have an "us vs. the rest of the EVE community" mentality. I guess I am glad its out in the open. I love our allies dearly. OC, SMASH,TFC, DPG, LOVEU, VIDEO.... they're all really really great people. 3FA are great neighbours, and really came through for us with style considering that in its inception goonfleet was not good to 3fa. BOS will, I imagine, forever only ever have to ask to have hundreds of goons happy to die for them. I wish we didn't have to fight DICE, you guys were great. We have loads of fun playing this game, we'd love it for you to play it with us :)
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:03:00 - [301] Originally by: Anti Derivative Originally by: FATE LOL That story in over now.That story in over now. what happen someone set you up the bomb! Nemo me impune lacessit
fmercury Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:03:00 - [302] Originally by: John Moscroft 1. Newbie 2. The Ninja Miner 3. Frigate 4. FC 5. SPYAD Posting FC Who Steals Loot Instead of Placing It in the Taxes Hangar 6. FMercury Hahah, if you're going to dredge up this bull***, you might as well get your facts straight. Since day one of me being in goonfleet the loot going in the taxes hangar was for "re-embursing PVP losses" 7 months later, nobody had seen a cent. So I took it into my own hands. On ops where I was FC, I would distribute loot to whoever lost a ship based on the value, and keep whatever was left for myself. Now besides all that, by the words of your directorate (of which I was a part, don't forget), loot from "non-corp" ops, (i.e., pretty much anything that wasn't a "mandatory defense op" )did not belong to the corp. So, I was under no compunction to put it in the taxes hangar to begin with. What other *** have they been accusing me of since i left? I could use a laugh.
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:04:00 - [303] Originally by: Sochin someone set you up the bomb! Oh dear god AYB references please tell me that wasn't posted seriously.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:04:00 - [304] Originally by: deadEd I don't know of any other meaningful corps/alliances that would even bother recruiting trial account players, so it's really kind of a moot point. Also having 1-2 month old guys leading fleets isnt really something to brag about. I love it, and I really dislike the other players that look down their noses at players who haven't gathered enough skillpoints. The average Eve player's first words on Teamspeak is "is omber worth more than plagioclase?" or "is the red cross a pirate? I think it's shooting at me". WhiteHowler's first words on Teamspeak was "two points on the Moros", eight days into his trial. I wish I, and any Eve player, got that introduction to the game. 0.0 would be everything it was supposed to be. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Eloryan Persago Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:04:00 - [305] Edited by: Eloryan Persago on 28/07/2006 22:04:31 Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Eloryan Persago Originally by: Sochin Originally by: Eloryan Persago All I have to say is the following: The following Alliances/Corporations have attempted to attack us in Syndicate: 1. Black Reign Syndicate 2. Supremecy 3. NBSI Where are these alliances now AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh man you're going to be suprised I like suprises! Do not ruin it for me..... IS IT A PUPPY?! Actually, its an Emu. Its sort of like an Ostrich, but lays cooler eggs. Awesome, can you stuff it so I can be like Rod Hull http://www.comedykings.co.uk/panto/87pic5.jpg _________________________________________ Anything posted by this character does not represent Goonfleet and/or Goonswarm, anything said which may offend you was probably said because I meant it
Ouabain GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:05:00 - [306] Edited by: Ouabain on 28/07/2006 22:05:11 Edited by: Ouabain on 28/07/2006 22:04:57 Originally by: Marko Debreault Right now the Goons are creating the perception that they have an "us vs. the rest of the EVE community" mentality. I guess I am glad its out in the open. We're not against the EVE community, just those who are picking on us, you seem to think we are against everyone in EVE because we are not kowtowing to those who have chosen to attack us. Just because they are powerful and many does not make them the EVE community. Wet Dog
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:06:00 - [307] Originally by: Ouabain We're not against the EVE community, just those who are picking on us, you seem to think we are against everyone in EVE because we are not kowtowing to those who have chosen to attack us. I don't think you understand, this is Bob we are talking about here. They don't need to do anything, all they need to do is post a single word and empires will fall at their command.
Anille Kole Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:06:00 - [308] Originally by: Calenth Originally by: Anille Kole You're accusing me of spin? That's laughable at best. Accusing me of being ashamed of my opinion because I post with an alt is no better. I post with an alt because, as with many organizations within EVE, no group wants to be poorly represented by random members, and as such impose restrictions on posting in this type of forum. By posting with an anonymous character, I can not only avoid being instantly judged to be biased for or against something, but I can avoid tarnishing my organization in the minds of anyone who may be against what I say. A word of warning, though: The discussion between us seems to be progressing towards conduct liable to get deleted, so I suggest toning things down. Nice alt post. This is exactly what I have been talking about. You cannot win in a battle of logic or facts, so you simply state nonsensical things, half-truths, or in comments that try to reduce the credibility of the poster. However, here is the flaw in your logic: I'm not referring to anything that this character has personally done ingame. I'm only using logic and examples from within the forum. There's no reason to discount my arguments simply because of that. ________________________________ Lovable alt. <3
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:07:00 - [309] Originally by: fmercury What other **** have they been accusing me of since i left? I could use a laugh. Uh... hate to bust your ego bubble, but i havent even heard anyone mention you for, what? Months? Then you apparently decided that trolling these threads was a great idea. I guess anything for internet fame.
Dolvich GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:08:00 - [310] This whole situation is laughably pathetic. If you really cared about someone's memory, the last thing you would want to do is drag it onto an internet forum knowing full well a dramabomb would ensue. And hey look, thats exactly what happened. The adult mature thing to do would have been to keep the matter private as opposed to running to the forums like the little tattle tale everyone hated in school. Even if this twisted form of vengeance is your real reason for attacking us, which I highly doubt, you still shouldn't have brought it to these forums. And to be honest, its a pretty lame and childish reason, especially considering this is a VIDEO GAME. Its like me saying I want to kill D2 because they're all Germans and my great aunt died in a concentration camp.
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:08:00 - [311] Originally by: Anille Kole This is exactly what I have been talking about. You cannot win in a battle of logic or facts, so you simply state nonsensical things, half-truths, or in comments that try to reduce the credibility of the poster. Isn't this what everybody on this forum does, I must have seen thousands of good alt-poster points dismissed my everyone (especially bob) purely on the basis that it is an alt posting it.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:08:00 - [312] Originally by: fmercury Hahah, if you're going to dredge up this bull***, you might as well get your facts straight. Since day one of me being in goonfleet the loot going in the taxes hangar was for "re-embursing PVP losses" 7 months later, nobody had seen a cent. So I took it into my own hands. On ops where I was FC, I would distribute loot to whoever lost a ship based on the value, and keep whatever was left for myself. Now besides all that, by the words of your directorate (of which I was a part, don't forget), loot from "non-corp" ops, (i.e., pretty much anything that wasn't a "mandatory defense op" )did not belong to the corp. So, I was under no compunction to put it in the taxes hangar to begin with. What other * have they been accusing me of since i left? I could use a laugh. Hahahahahaha oh fmerc. Nobody so far, including all the evegoons superstar, have made a better bitter vet than you. Originally by:** Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Deidranna SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:09:00 - [313] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Arath Veduran Whether it takes a week, a month, or a year, we will have XZH. Wasnt supposed to be this weekend ? goon camp with 50 bubbles in XZH today after a few mins... 1.0 and 2.0 d GM Eldini > Hi, behaving are we?
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:11:00 - [314] Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Joerd Toastius Basically, they've decided that they don't want to deal with the Goon personas in game any more so they've decided to remove them from the game. Impotent then, and likely stupid too. If bob doesn't want to cause hurt but rather remove goon from the game because goon upsets them, they will find themselves unable to remove the goons from game (as another player cannot force another from the game - only make it more attractive for them to leave the game themselves). Stupid because they will likely - even if they somehow force goonfleet to disband - find some goons quite happy to put alts in the npc stations owned by bob and tell off colour jokes in local whilst they browse SA - thus they have not stopped goons from hurting them, and will rather find the problem exacerbated. I'm also going to go with pathetic: consider they want to remove goon from the game. A game. That's like Manchester United breaking the legs of Bolton's players to remove them from the game. Adults don't "remove people from the game" - especially not people who have just as much right to play and garner enjoyment from the game as they do - especially not nearly 3000 people for the actions of less than 5. I think BoB will probably be happy just to have Goonswarm disband and its members cast to the four winds. They presumably think they can do it, and they might be right. We'll see. If they can make the game un-fun for Goons, by your own arguments said Goons will have no reason to log in. As to calling them names, well, that's your subjective value judgement I guess. They think they've got the ability, they've got the motivation, the rules of the game seem to allow it, so... why not? Your analogy is fatally unsound, for the simple reason that football doesn't allow you to break peoples' legs. Eve does allow you to wipe out other alliances, and the "referees" generally encourage it provided it's done fairly. It's just part of Eve being Eve. This is all, of course, a totally seperate discussion to both your original question and your follow-up, but that's to be expected I guess. Why stick to a particular topic when you can stay one jump ahead by abandoning positions every time they look under threat?
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:13:00 - [315] Originally by: Xgkkp I'm not quite sure 'after a few minutes' means 30, and 57 respectively. This happened in D2s primetime, so obviously I petitioned the timezone exploit, still waiting for a response. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Xgkkp GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:13:00 - [316] Originally by: Deidranna goon camp with 50 bubbles in XZH today after a few mins... 1.0 and 2.0 I'm not quite sure 'after a few minutes' means 30, and 57 respectively.
Vulcyrik Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:14:00 - [317] Edited by: Vulcyrik on 28/07/2006 22:15:12 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Arath Veduran Originally by: deadEd Edited by: deadEd on 28/07/2006 21:31:37 Originally by: Ouabain Finally, we have an incredible level of organisation, because of all of the above. I am absolutely sure that no other alliance has the discipline and shared knowledge of the mechanics of the game that we do. You can't be serious. That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have, and I hope for the sake of your entire alliance that it's only you 1-2 month guys that have it. We have players on trial accounts in major ops. We have 1-2 month guys leading gangs. We have people spending their very first day in Eve in 0.0 space. Do you know of any other corps or alliances that even come close to this? I'll tell you this, I've not seen any group go from being treated "indifferently" to being treated with hostility as fast as you guys have. Most Goons consider this fact to mean we are doing this right. Understand that and you will have a better understanding of what motivates most of GS. Most of us aren't here because we really wanted to play EVE (although it is a lot of fun, and for all the bugs CCP made a really fun game) and make Trillions of isk or become uber or something, we are here to be "Goons in Space!" I'm sure someone will reply with yet another tired retort of us not 'getting' the community aspect of the game, but frankly you have to live with us or try to kill us. And we welcome either action, just be open about your true motivation and come at us with a good attitude and looking for a good fight. Because a good fight you will have... (assuming the node server doesn't melt first "I'm fairly sure they think we are all absolutly insane. And I'm fairly sure they are right."
vladdy2 VentureCorp CORE.	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:17:00 - [318] soooo other than Imran and Zimi fixing to "harm" each other nothing new in this thread today huh? From the 4 yesterday that went "poof" that aboot sums it up? oh and.... More Imran and Zimi!!!! (what you guys doing neway dont tell me your pewpew'n out there) Hurry up and post ffs. --------------------------------- another VNTR member with no sig by Vaevictus :(
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:20:00 - [319] This turn of events calls for a new sig. ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:20:00 - [320] Originally by: Xgkkp Originally by: Deidranna goon camp with 50 bubbles in XZH today after a few mins... 1.0 and 2.0 I'm not quite sure 'after a few minutes' means 30, and 57 respectively. well a 'few minutes' is a better estimation than your '100 hour gatecamp in XZH' and btw - friday 11:00 can hardly be described as D¦ primetime ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:21:00 - [321] Originally by: Xgkkp I'm not quite sure 'after a few minutes' means 30, and 57 respectively. It means an outnumbered force broke your pathetic camp in less than an hour. Pulling a "BoB and ASCN in EC-" doesn't just mean "stack the gate with bubbles", you know. After the last few days of watching Goons on forums, I actually want you out of the game. I don't want your alliance "broken" and the members scattered to other corps, as commonly happens in Eve. No, I despise your entire culture. I have two RL friends that are members of Goonfleet and I'm asking them to grow up and leave it, or lose my respect and friendship permanently. One of them is doing so; the other is wavering because half his "social life" has been online via SA for so long. I suggest others that know goons IRL do the same. I'm quite sure I'm not alone in this feeling. /sm
Whiskey Juvenile GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:22:00 - [322] Originally by: Vulcyrik Most of us aren't here because we really wanted to play EVE (although it is a lot of fun, and for all the bugs CCP made a really fun game) and make Trillions of isk or become uber or something, we are here to be "Goons in Space!" I'm sure someone will reply with yet another tired retort of us not 'getting' the community aspect of the game, but frankly you have to live with us or try to kill us. And we welcome either action, just be open about your true motivation and come at us with a good attitude and looking for a good fight. I never understood this tremendous Eve community meme floating around here that apparently includes having various corps and alliances flame and troll each other on these forums for a slong as I can remember. Basically, by "Eve communities," they're, of course, referring to "BoB and its supplicants."
Deidranna SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:22:00 - [323] Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: Xgkkp I'm not quite sure 'after a few minutes' means 30, and 57 respectively. This happened in D2s primetime, so obviously I petitioned the timezone exploit, still waiting for a response. well, i really dont want to start arguing about timezones (again) but 8 in the morning isnt really our primetime but anyway, good luck with your petition d GM Eldini > Hi, behaving are we?
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:23:00 - [324] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: Xgkkp I'm not quite sure 'after a few minutes' means 30, and 57 respectively. It means an outnumbered force broke your pathetic camp in less than an hour. Pulling a "BoB and ASCN in EC-" doesn't just mean "stack the gate with bubbles", you know. After the last few days of watching Goons on forums, I actually want you out of the game. I don't want your alliance "broken" and the members scattered to other corps, as commonly happens in Eve. No, I despise your entire culture. I have two RL friends that are members of Goonfleet and I'm asking them to grow up and leave it, or lose my respect and friendship permanently. One of them is doing so; the other is wavering because half his "social life" has been online via SA for so long. I suggest others that know goons IRL do the same. I'm quite sure I'm not alone in this feeling. /sm I....I...I want to drink you. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:25:00 - [325] ANYONE WHO POSTS UNDERNEATH THIS LINE IS FAT ----------------------------------------------------
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:25:00 - [326] Originally by: Deidranna well, i really dont want to start arguing about timezones (again) but 8 in the morning isnt really our primetime but anyway, good luck with your petition d Thank you for getting my cruel joke about D2's constant petitioning of anything that opposed them. Oh wait, you aren't part of D2, you are part of the guys that D2 was going to sell down the river if they could only save some forum honor. Good luck! Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:30:00 - [327] Originally by: fmercury Originally by: Cvuos Hahahahahaha oh fmerc. Nobody so far, including all the evegoons superstar, have made a better bitter vet than you. I'm having a grand old time in this thread, riling up my former corpmates is a hoot. Just one thing, I keep seeing the phrase "bitter vet" thrown around. Now, I won't deny that I dislike goonfleet pretty strongly, which seems to be the qualification needed for being a "bitter vet". I also won't deny i'm a vet, at least by goonfleet's standards. But, here's the thing: what do I have to be bitter about? I quit goonfleet under no pressure from anyone, on my own terms. Then, for laughs, I blew up nearly 140 of you in 3 or 4 days, without losses. After that, I joined a great corp full of great guys. I've had more entertaining PvP, i've made far more isk, and I've generally enjoyed EVE a lot more since i've been in Contraband. Sour grapes for me, huh? Either way, this line of conversation is utterly irrelevent to this thread. What, you don't feel bad that you backstabbed your EVE friends which is just like backstabbing IRL friends? I mean, you like killed your IRL friends with space lasers and things like that. You are a MURDERER! That story in over now.
Alan Mills	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:31:00 - [328] Edited by: Alan Mills on 28/07/2006 22:34:04 Edited by: Alan Mills on 28/07/2006 22:33:02 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: Xgkkp I'm not quite sure 'after a few minutes' means 30, and 57 respectively. It means an outnumbered force broke your pathetic camp in less than an hour. Pulling a "BoB and ASCN in EC-" doesn't just mean "stack the gate with bubbles", you know. After the last few days of watching Goons on forums, I actually want you out of the game. I don't want your alliance "broken" and the members scattered to other corps, as commonly happens in Eve. No, I despise your entire culture. I have two RL friends that are members of Goonfleet and I'm asking them to grow up and leave it, or lose my respect and friendship permanently. One of them is doing so; the other is wavering because half his "social life" has been online via SA for so long. I suggest others that know goons IRL do the same. I'm quite sure I'm not alone in this feeling. /sm You will stop being friends with someone in real life because of the actions of some other people in a 2000+ anonymous group? Ok, before I thought all the "snap out of the game and back to reality" post people were making were a little too far out but I'm begining to agree. If your friendship is that fragile in the first place you're doing your 'friends' a favor. To keep this from just being a flame, this kind of talk about how we are all scum in real life is what is angering the average goon, not war decs. Edit: Crap, sorry didn't mean to alt post. My main is Vulcyrik - GoonSwarm, I just posted on the other page.
Mikhailov GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:31:00 - [329] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: Xgkkp I'm not quite sure 'after a few minutes' means 30, and 57 respectively. After the last few days of watching Goons on forums, I actually want you out of the game. I don't want your alliance "broken" and the members scattered to other corps, as commonly happens in Eve. No, I despise your entire culture. I have two RL friends that are members of Goonfleet and I'm asking them to grow up and leave it, or lose my respect and friendship permanently. One of them is doing so; the other is wavering because half his "social life" has been online via SA for so long. I suggest others that know goons IRL do the same. I'm quite sure I'm not alone in this feeling. /sm Hahahhaah. This is seriously rich. Definitely worth of a copy paste into the "hilarious" file.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:32:00 - [330] Originally by: fmercury I'm having a grand old time in this thread, riling up my former corpmates is a hoot. Just one thing, I keep seeing the phrase "bitter vet" thrown around. Now, I won't deny that I dislike goonfleet pretty strongly, which seems to be the qualification needed for being a "bitter vet". I also won't deny i'm a vet, at least by goonfleet's standards. But, here's the thing: what do I have to be bitter about? I quit goonfleet under no pressure from anyone, on my own terms. Then, for laughs, I blew up nearly 140 of you in 3 or 4 days, without losses. After that, I joined a great corp full of great guys. I've had more entertaining PvP, i've made far more isk, and I've generally enjoyed EVE a lot more since i've been in Contraband. Sour grapes for me, huh? Either way, this line of conversation is utterly irrelevent to this thread. You quit with a thread akin to qqqqqq, you keep trolling Goonfleet threads here and on SA, sorry you are a bitter vet. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:33:00 - [331] The following people are fat: FATE LOL John Moscroft Ouabain fmercury (fat and desperatly wants people to look at him) Xgkkp Mikhailov Alan Mills Cvuos
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:33:00 - [332] Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:33:19 Originally by: Mikhailov Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: Xgkkp I'm not quite sure 'after a few minutes' means 30, and 57 respectively. After the last few days of watching Goons on forums, I actually want you out of the game. I don't want your alliance "broken" and the members scattered to other corps, as commonly happens in Eve. No, I despise your entire culture. I have two RL friends that are members of Goonfleet and I'm asking them to grow up and leave it, or lose my respect and friendship permanently. One of them is doing so; the other is wavering because half his "social life" has been online via SA for so long. I suggest others that know goons IRL do the same. I'm quite sure I'm not alone in this feeling. /sm Hahahhaah. This is seriously rich. Definitely worth of a copy paste into the "hilarious" file. Has there been any posts on your forum about how "I'm leaving because my IRL says I need to leave you people because you are big potty-heads?" If so, cut and paste that here. That story in over now.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:34:00 - [333] Originally by: Nova Cygni The following people are fat: FATE LOL John Moscroft Ouabain fmercury (fat and desperatly wants people to look at him) Xgkkp Mikhailov Alan Mills Cvuos You forgot Nova Cygni, because you posted below that line as well Fatty McCupcakes. That story in over now.
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:35:00 - [334] Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Nova Cygni The following people are fat: FATE LOL John Moscroft Ouabain fmercury (fat and desperatly wants people to look at him) Xgkkp Mikhailov Alan Mills Cvuos You forgot Nova Cygni, because you posted below that line as well Fatty McCupcakes. ohcrap.
fmercury Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:35:00 - [335] Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: fmercury I'm having a grand old time in this thread, riling up my former corpmates is a hoot. Just one thing, I keep seeing the phrase "bitter vet" thrown around. Now, I won't deny that I dislike goonfleet pretty strongly, which seems to be the qualification needed for being a "bitter vet". I also won't deny i'm a vet, at least by goonfleet's standards. But, here's the thing: what do I have to be bitter about? I quit goonfleet under no pressure from anyone, on my own terms. Then, for laughs, I blew up nearly 140 of you in 3 or 4 days, without losses. After that, I joined a great corp full of great guys. I've had more entertaining PvP, i've made far more isk, and I've generally enjoyed EVE a lot more since i've been in Contraband. Sour grapes for me, huh? Either way, this line of conversation is utterly irrelevent to this thread. You quit with a thread akin to qqqqqq, you keep trolling Goonfleet threads here and on SA, sorry you are a bitter vet. Qqqqq? Q qqqq, qqqqqq qqqqqqq... qqq! Qqqq, qqqq! qqqqqq, qqq. Qqqqq, qqq qqqqqqqq! Qqqqqq, qqq. qqqqq?
dantes inferno Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:38:00 - [336] holy mother of god....ive seen some drivel on these forums but this GS/Bob stuff takes the bait. whole problem we have here with the smoske situation is a lack of respect on both sides. Goonsquad: the fact you allow firstname and that other nub in your alliance is enough of a reason for most of eve to treat you with contemp. no one here will really give two damns about you SA culture..guess what this aint SA but eve, if you play this game and not respect OUR culture...dont be to suprised when you are "picked on". you have every right to make any joke you want on your own forums..but dont be suprised when people see it and get P%^sed, bob are taking action against you ingame as it is the only recourse they have to vent their rage against you. some of your posts are slightly amusing...but on a whole you are a obnoxious group who deserve to be wiped out for your atittude alone (and to those who cry that all 2000 should not be accused for the actions of a few...well mabye the rest of you should do something about this few and it will not be a problem now will it. your as guilty as the rest through omiting any action to stop them). BOB: though your anger is understandable, briging this issue to the public forums as justification for your destruction of GS shows a total lack of respect for any of smokes friends/family who may be reading the eve forums or playing the game..you have dreged up painful memories in a way many people would not like. imagine some one pulling this stunt with one of your dead realitives..would you like it? i sure as hell wouldnt. but saying that, ive made my dislike of your alliance clear on many occasions...mainly due to the attitude of your more profilic forum goers,but on this occasion i wish you good hunting. i wouls rather the arrogant p^icks bob are to the obnoxious pr^cks that goonsquad is. _____ They were monsters. They rode across the world we knew and brough terror, and death. Where they were, life ceased. They were without mercy. They were without fear - They were MASS
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:39:00 - [337] Edited by: Cvuos on 28/07/2006 22:40:44 Edited by: Cvuos on 28/07/2006 22:39:23 Originally by: Nova Cygni The following people are fat: FATE LOL John Moscroft Ouabain fmercury (fat and desperatly wants people to look at him) Xgkkp Mikhailov Alan Mills Cvuos I am going to kill you irl. edit: also fmerc, pubbie emoticons looks good on you Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:41:00 - [338] Originally by: Mikhailov Hahahhaah. This is seriously rich. Definitely worth of a copy paste into the "hilarious" file. /me shrugs. You're a bunch of revolting puerile adolescents, and people can either choose to be friends with me, or you. p.s. the internet is a real communications medium, where real human beings communicate. "Dude it's a game"? At the foul level you people operate at, it's not. It's personal. /sm
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:41:00 - [339] Originally by: dantes inferno holy mother of god....ive seen some drivel on these forums but this GS/Bob stuff takes the bait. whole problem we have here with the smoske situation is a lack of respect on both sides. Goonsquad: the fact you allow firstname and that other nub in your alliance is enough of a reason for most of eve to treat you with contemp. no one here will really give two damns about you SA culture..guess what this aint SA but eve, if you play this game and not respect OUR culture...dont be to suprised when you are "picked on". you have every right to make any joke you want on your own forums..but dont be suprised when people see it and get P%^sed, bob are taking action against you ingame as it is the only recourse they have to vent their rage against you. some of your posts are slightly amusing...but on a whole you are a obnoxious group who deserve to be wiped out for your atittude alone (and to those who cry that all 2000 should not be accused for the actions of a few...well mabye the rest of you should do something about this few and it will not be a problem now will it. your as guilty as the rest through omiting any action to stop them). BOB: though your anger is understandable, briging this issue to the public forums as justification for your destruction of GS shows a total lack of respect for any of smokes friends/family who may be reading the eve forums or playing the game..you have dreged up painful memories in a way many people would not like. imagine some one pulling this stunt with one of your dead realitives..would you like it? i sure as hell wouldnt. but saying that, ive made my dislike of your alliance clear on many occasions...mainly due to the attitude of your more profilic forum goers,but on this occasion i wish you good hunting. i wouls rather the arrogant p^icks bob are to the obnoxious pr^cks that goonsquad is. Don't use his name in vain please. That story in over now.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:43:00 - [340] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: Mikhailov Hahahhaah. This is seriously rich. Definitely worth of a copy paste into the "hilarious" file. /me shrugs. You're a bunch of revolting puerile adolescents, and people can either choose to be friends with me, or you. p.s. the internet is a real communications medium, where real human beings communicate. "Dude it's a game"? At the foul level you people operate at, it's not. It's personal. /sm So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? /sm That story in over now.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:44:00 - [341] Originally by: Crivens I'm also going to go with pathetic: consider they want to remove goon from the game. A game. That's like Manchester United breaking the legs of Bolton's players to remove them from the game. Adults don't "remove people from the game" - especially not people who have just as much right to play and garner enjoyment from the game as they do - especially not nearly 3000 people for the actions of less than 5. If you are supposed to be good at arguing over the internet you can't submit the most ridiculous RL analogy ever onto these forums y'know... In EVE that's what happens. When people get fed up with others polluting their ingame environment they drive them out of the game or force them to spend their time mining in Jita in a noobcorp. Your choice.
Adohan Zefyr Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:45:00 - [342] Oh shut up.
DeadDuck Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:46:00 - [343] Originally by: Xgkkp Originally by: Shiraz Merlot It means an outnumbered force broke your pathetic camp in less than an hour. Pulling a "BoB and ASCN in EC-" doesn't just mean "stack the gate with bubbles", you know. An hour does not equal a few minutes. And they seemed rather afraid to attack it until numbers were dwindling. This exact same thing has been going on for weeks - D2 controls the system during the day, Goons during the night. I'm not arrogant enough to suggest that every D2 camp we break up every night is a massive achievement. Originally by: Shiraz Merlot After the last few days of watching Goons on forums, I actually want you out of the game. I don't want your alliance "broken" and the members scattered to other corps, as commonly happens in Eve. No, I despise your entire culture. This is exactly how many members of goonfleet want you to think. Well I'm tired of listening your bull**** in this forums ... You control XZH about 5/6h day the rest of the day is from D2/RZR/YW allies... You were suposed to be sealing the system for 100h straight ... hmmm guess it was bubled only 7 h... those 56 med bubles lasted for no more then 7/8 hours... and with them more then 100 goons died vs no more then 10 in our side ... a gang member managed to reach 40 kills during this action ... At this moment we are in the same gate that you were supposed to be camping, as usual you are in pos and warping to station and warp away as soon as we warp on you ... dam the action is so big that I'm writing in here while camping the gate... Do the fight in the game not in here Seee you in XZH
John Moscroft GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:47:00 - [344] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: Mikhailov Hahahhaah. This is seriously rich. Definitely worth of a copy paste into the "hilarious" file. /me shrugs. You're a bunch of revolting puerile adolescents, and people can either choose to be friends with me, or you. p.s. the internet is a real communications medium, where real human beings communicate. "Dude it's a game"? At the foul level you people operate at, it's not. It's personal. Seriously, you threatened to stop being a friends with someone because they're in an alliance you don't like in an Internet space game. I'm not big on D2 but if my best friend was running around with CE I wouldn't say "QUIT YOUR ALLIANCE OR I'M NOT YOUR FRIEND ANYMORE!" That's a little..er..I don't even know.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:48:00 - [345] A goon actually partied with a D2 guy not long ago. I'm not sure the pictures are appropriate for the forums but laffo. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:48:00 - [346] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Xgkkp Originally by: Shiraz Merlot It means an outnumbered force broke your pathetic camp in less than an hour. Pulling a "BoB and ASCN in EC-" doesn't just mean "stack the gate with bubbles", you know. An hour does not equal a few minutes. And they seemed rather afraid to attack it until numbers were dwindling. This exact same thing has been going on for weeks - D2 controls the system during the day, Goons during the night. I'm not arrogant enough to suggest that every D2 camp we break up every night is a massive achievement. Originally by: Shiraz Merlot After the last few days of watching Goons on forums, I actually want you out of the game. I don't want your alliance "broken" and the members scattered to other corps, as commonly happens in Eve. No, I despise your entire culture. This is exactly how many members of goonfleet want you to think. Well I'm tired of listening your bull** in this forums ... You control XZH about 5/6h day the rest of the day is from D2/RZR/YW allies... You were suposed to be sealing the system for 100h straight ... hmmm guess it was bubled only 7 h... those 56 med bubles lasted for no more then 7/8 hours... and with them more then 100 goons died vs no more then 10 in our side ... a gang member managed to reach 40 kills during this action ... At this moment we are in the same gate that you were supposed to be camping, as usual you are in pos and warping to station and warp away as soon as we warp on you ... dam the action is so big that I'm writing in here while camping the gate... Do the fight in the game not in here Seee you in XZH 5/6 8/9 2/1 4/5 6/1 5/4 What are you trying to say? That story in over now.**
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:49:00 - [347] Look, everyone who posted past that line is fat. Thats a fact and none of you can argue. So seriously shut up. Everyone. Why? Because nobody likes it when a fatty talks. Fatty fat. Topic over.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:50:00 - [348] Originally by: FATE LOL 5/6 8/9 2/1 4/5 6/1 5/4 What are you trying to say? Fraction warfare is coming in Kali. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:53:00 - [349] Originally by: Nova Cygni Look, everyone who posted past that line is fat. Thats a fact and none of you can argue. So seriously shut up. Everyone. Why? Because nobody likes it when a fatty talks. Fatty fat. Topic over. But I love you Fatty McCupcakes! That story in over now.
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:53:00 - [350] Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:55:00 - [351] Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:55:14 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow, "subhumans" so do you want to put them in camps after you drive them out of EVE? /sm That story in over now.
super gunna	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:55:00 - [352] with the goons being cut off from their money supply (syndicate) beacuse of bob being there Goons wont maintain a offense for much longer in cloud ring as their members lose ships and cant replace them from their headquarters, soon they wont have enough money to keep supplying all those POS's Goonswarm your end is near.
Adohan Zefyr Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:56:00 - [353] Edited by: Adohan Zefyr on 28/07/2006 22:56:02 Oh man I'm rich Hey gunna, no alts in this forum.
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:56:00 - [354] Originally by: FATE LOL Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:55:14 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow, "subhumans" so do you want to put them in camps after you drive them out of EVE? /sm why havent you gotten banned yet?
Adohan Zefyr Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:57:00 - [355] Originally by: Hast why havent you gotten banned yet? Awwwww diddums
Talos Darkhart	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:57:00 - [356] So how many ppl have war dec the goonies?
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:58:00 - [357] Originally by: Hast Originally by: FATE LOL Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:55:14 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow, "subhumans" so do you want to put them in camps after you drive them out of EVE? /sm why havent you gotten banned yet? One could ask you the same question /sm That story in over now.
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:59:00 - [358] Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Hast Originally by: FATE LOL Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:55:14 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow, "subhumans" so do you want to put them in camps after you drive them out of EVE? /sm why havent you gotten banned yet? One could ask you the same question /sm why are you signing your post the same way as the octavian vanguard poster?
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 22:59:00 - [359] Fred0 this is for you, i honestly spent five minutes hitting "quote" to your post only to find myself quoting someone else so I gave up. Yes, it was a pretty laffo analogy. You're quite correct when you and the others say that bob might not be able to make us quit the game, but can make it un-fun for us to play. They failed with NORAD and FA and stain, so we're not too scared - hence their posturing and so on seems a little silly. But what do I know, maybe they will. At least then i'll get my free time back! (p.s. bob is going to rue this horribly in about six months time)
Adohan Zefyr Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:00:00 - [360] Originally by: Hast Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Hast Originally by: FATE LOL Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:55:14 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow, "subhumans" so do you want to put them in camps after you drive them out of EVE? /sm why havent you gotten banned yet? One could ask you the same question /sm why are you signing your post the same way as the octavian vanguard poster? Why not? /sm
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:00:00 - [361] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow - you have a lot of anger. Can I offer you a hug? /sm goodbye.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:00:00 - [362] Originally by: Crivens Fred0 this is for you, i honestly spent five minutes hitting "quote" to your post only to find myself quoting someone else so I gave up. Yes, it was a pretty laffo analogy. You're quite correct when you and the others say that bob might not be able to make us quit the game, but can make it un-fun for us to play. They failed with NORAD and FA and stain, so we're not too scared - hence their posturing and so on seems a little silly. But what do I know, maybe they will. At least then i'll get my free time back! (p.s. bob is going to rue this horribly in about six months time) Thread over and won. I declare GoonSwarm the winners because they use the word "RUE" /sm That story in over now.
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:00:00 - [363] Hey fatties, you are still talking. Your angry sausage fingers are still probing that XL keyboard to put your anger in text form. Do i have to tell you again? You are fat and nobody likes to watch fat people talk. So stop talking all of you.
CaptainButts GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:01:00 - [364] Edited by: CaptainButts on 28/07/2006 23:01:27 this thread and all threads like it AND CONSEQUENTLY ALL POSTERS IN IT BOB AND GOONSWARM ALIKE are buffoons buffoooooooooooooooooons quote this if ur down ___________________________________________ if you think what a lil old bee like me posts is any official manifestation of corporate or director policies you're pretty dumb or something
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:01:00 - [365] Originally by: Hast Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Hast Originally by: FATE LOL Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:55:14 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow, "subhumans" so do you want to put them in camps after you drive them out of EVE? /sm why havent you gotten banned yet? One could ask you the same question /sm why are you signing your post the same way as the octavian vanguard poster? I thought it was some kind of secret code word or something. Like "Peace Out" /sm That story in over now.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:02:00 - [366] Originally by: CaptainButts Edited by: CaptainButts on 28/07/2006 23:01:27 this thread and all threads like it AND CONSEQUENTLY ALL POSTERS IN IT BOB AND GOONSWARM ALIKE are buffoons buffoooooooooooooooooons quote this if ur down im down bra /sm Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Adohan Zefyr Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:02:00 - [367] Edited by: Adohan Zefyr on 28/07/2006 23:02:09 Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Hast Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Hast Originally by: FATE LOL Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:55:14 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow, "subhumans" so do you want to put them in camps after you drive them out of EVE? /sm why havent you gotten banned yet? One could ask you the same question /sm why are you signing your post the same way as the octavian vanguard poster? I thought it was some kind of secret code word or something. Like "Peace Out" /sm Thats a pretty huge pyramid right there. /sm
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:04:00 - [368] Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: CaptainButts Edited by: CaptainButts on 28/07/2006 23:01:27 this thread and all threads like it AND CONSEQUENTLY ALL POSTERS IN IT BOB AND GOONSWARM ALIKE are buffoons buffoooooooooooooooooons quote this if ur down im down bra /sm Quotin' dis cuz im down too homee /sm
Adohan Zefyr Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:05:00 - [369] Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: CaptainButts Edited by: CaptainButts on 28/07/2006 23:01:27 this thread and all threads like it AND CONSEQUENTLY ALL POSTERS IN IT BOB AND GOONSWARM ALIKE are buffoons buffoooooooooooooooooons quote this if ur down im down bra /sm Quotin' dis cuz im down too homee /sm What do the aztecs, the inca and egyptians have in common? /sm
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:06:00 - [370] Originally by: Adohan Zefyr Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: CaptainButts Edited by: CaptainButts on 28/07/2006 23:01:27 this thread and all threads like it AND CONSEQUENTLY ALL POSTERS IN IT BOB AND GOONSWARM ALIKE are buffoons buffoooooooooooooooooons quote this if ur down im down bra /sm Quotin' dis cuz im down too homee /sm What do the aztecs, the inca and egyptians have in common? /sm They were all destroyed by BoB /s Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:06:00 - [371] Originally by: Adohan Zefyr Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: CaptainButts Edited by: CaptainButts on 28/07/2006 23:01:27 this thread and all threads like it AND CONSEQUENTLY ALL POSTERS IN IT BOB AND GOONSWARM ALIKE are buffoons buffoooooooooooooooooons quote this if ur down im down bra /sm Quotin' dis cuz im down too homee /sm What do the aztecs, the inca and egyptians have in common? /sm Advanced medical tools? /sm That story in over now.
CrestoftheStars GoonFleet	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:09:00 - [372] fmerc do you really hate goons
fmercury Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:10:00 - [373] Originally by: CrestoftheStars fmerc do you really hate goons No. I hate goonfleet. There's a difference
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:10:00 - [374] Originally by: John Moscroft I'm not big on D2 but if my best friend was running around with CE I wouldn't say "QUIT YOUR ALLIANCE OR I'M NOT YOUR FRIEND ANYMORE!" That's a little..er..I don't even know. Strong? Extreme? Such is the depth of revulsion Goonfleet engenders. /sm
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:11:00 - [375] Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: Adohan Zefyr Originally by: Factor Benz Originally by: Cvuos Originally by: CaptainButts Edited by: CaptainButts on 28/07/2006 23:01:27 this thread and all threads like it AND CONSEQUENTLY ALL POSTERS IN IT BOB AND GOONSWARM ALIKE are buffoons buffoooooooooooooooooons quote this if ur down im down bra /sm Quotin' dis cuz im down too homee /sm What do the aztecs, the inca and egyptians have in common? /sm They were all destroyed by BoB /s They painted on walls? /sm That story in over now.
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:12:00 - [376] I still love you fmerc
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:12:00 - [377] Seriously, you are some defiant fatties. But i guess if you had self control you wouldnt be so fat. Jesus your fat. You disgust me. Stop Posting
Cutie Chaser	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:12:00 - [378] Originally by: FATE LOL Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:55:14 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow, "subhumans" so do you want to put them in camps after you drive them out of EVE? /sm The SA community once delegated a portion of their commmunity to a single forum refered to as a 'Concentration Camp', marked them with yellow stars under their names, then banned them later. So glad we have such a community joining us in eve, and I hope the irony of your statement is apparent.
Adohan Zefyr Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:15:00 - [379] Originally by: fmercury hey guys let's spam the thread, THAT'LL get em on our side! Thats our aim exactly.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:16:00 - [380] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: John Moscroft I'm not big on D2 but if my best friend was running around with CE I wouldn't say "QUIT YOUR ALLIANCE OR I'M NOT YOUR FRIEND ANYMORE!" That's a little..er..I don't even know. Strong? Extreme? Such is the depth of revulsion Goonfleet engenders. /sm You need to take a step into the real World missy. How about you go work with child molesters then come back and talk about "revulsion". /sm That story in over now.
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:17:00 - [381] Originally by: Cutie Chaser The SA community once delegated a portion of their commmunity to a single forum refered to as a 'Concentration Camp', marked them with yellow stars under their names, then banned them later. So glad we have such a community joining us in eve, and I hope the irony of your statement is apparent. Hey, i hear we can take things wildly out of context in here? Oh hay, i hear that SA hates Jewish people and that none of the moderators are Jewish. Thats what i heard. Jesus your fat. PS sorry you got banned from SA :(
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:18:00 - [382] Originally by: Nova Cygni Seriously, you are some defiant fatties. But i guess if you had self control you wouldnt be so fat. Jesus your fat. You disgust me. Stop Posting You're just afraid of making love to a real woman. Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:18:00 - [383] Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: John Moscroft I'm not big on D2 but if my best friend was running around with CE I wouldn't say "QUIT YOUR ALLIANCE OR I'M NOT YOUR FRIEND ANYMORE!" That's a little..er..I don't even know. Strong? Extreme? Such is the depth of revulsion Goonfleet engenders. /sm You need to take a step into the real World missy. How about you go work with child molesters then come back and talk about "revulsion". /sm wtf does anything he said have to do with child molesters? You people have the wierdest logic... Nemo me impune lacessit
Nova Cygni GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:19:00 - [384] Originally by: Sochin You people You people? YOU PEOPLE! YOU RACIST. Seroiously you are just fat. Huge fat. I dont really think you are a racist. Maybe you are though. I wouldnt know. I do know your fat, because you posted after the line, and that means you should stop posting. Stop Posting
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:19:00 - [385] If by "moderators" you mean "admins"
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:20:00 - [386] Originally by: Cutie Chaser Originally by: FATE LOL Edited by: FATE LOL on 28/07/2006 22:55:14 Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: FATE LOL So how bad would you feel if your friend said "Your friendship isn't worth me leaving my corp."? If that's who they really are, I don't wish to know them any further, and they are become a nobody to me. What would I feel? A sense of disappointment. Many Eve players are in corporations that have histories far pre-dating Eve - e.g. I play with a group that's played WoW, JumpGate, Planetarion, CoH, TeamFortress, CTF together for years. The so-called "somethingawful" people are the first to truly disgust me with their subhuman antics. All your members are tarred with this brush, by continued association. /sm Wow, "subhumans" so do you want to put them in camps after you drive them out of EVE? /sm The SA community once delegated a portion of their commmunity to a single forum refered to as a 'Concentration Camp', marked them with yellow stars under their names, then banned them later. So glad we have such a community joining us in eve, and I hope the irony of your statement is apparent. SA did that? They really threw people into a camp and killed them? I've heard about people rewriting history, but this takes it to a new level! /sm That story in over now.
FATE LOL Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:21:00 - [387] Originally by: Sochin Originally by: FATE LOL Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Originally by: John Moscroft I'm not big on D2 but if my best friend was running around with CE I wouldn't say "QUIT YOUR ALLIANCE OR I'M NOT YOUR FRIEND ANYMORE!" That's a little..er..I don't even know. Strong? Extreme? Such is the depth of revulsion Goonfleet engenders. /sm You need to take a step into the real World missy. How about you go work with child molesters then come back and talk about "revulsion". /sm wtf does anything he said have to do with child molesters? You people have the wierdest logic... "Us people" You have a problem with Jews? You racist loser, I hope you get banned. /sm That story in over now.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:21:00 - [388] Originally by: Nova Cygni Originally by: Sochin You people You people? YOU PEOPLE! YOU RACIST. Seroiously you are just fat. Huge fat. I dont really think you are a racist. Maybe you are though. I wouldnt know. I do know your fat, because you posted after the line, and that means you should stop posting. Stop Posting I like this guy. Why can't more GoonSwarm people be like him. At least what he says makes sense! Nemo me impune lacessit
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:22:00 - [389] Originally by: Sochin wtf does anything he said have to do with child molesters? You people have the wierdest logic... The point is that /sm was talking about revulsion towards 2800 people based on maybe less than 100 of them posting on the eve forums or something. Maybe because they made dead people jokes. Wheras in the real world we reserve our revulsion for people who molest children, murder innocents, *****- that sort of thing.
CaptainButts GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:23:00 - [390] this thread is retarded seriously what's a guy gotta do to get a lock in here there's no meaningful discussion or anything ___________________________________________ if you think what a lil old bee like me posts is any official manifestation of corporate or director policies you're pretty dumb or something
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:24:00 - [391] Arguing on the internet and all that. Please keep posting, it gives me something to read while I'm waiting for programs to run at work. ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.
Adohan Zefyr Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:25:00 - [392] The new muse album is pretty cool but the last 2-3 tracks really let it down.
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:26:00 - [393] Originally by: CaptainButts this thread is retarded seriously what's a guy gotta do to get a lock in here there's no meaningful discussion or anything u wanna wage war? Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
Fatty McBlubberCakes GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:28:00 - [394] hey now I'm the only one that has the right to call other people fat dag namit
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:31:00 - [395] Edited by: Sochin on 28/07/2006 23:31:52 Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Sochin wtf does anything he said have to do with child molesters? You people have the wierdest logic... The point is that /sm was talking about revulsion towards 2800 people based on maybe less than 100 of them posting on the eve forums or something. Maybe because they made dead people jokes. Wheras in the real world we reserve our revulsion for people who molest children, murder innocents, ****- that sort of thing. You guys have this wierd habit of taking arguements to completely ridiculous places just to try and win them. One guy was talking about he is revolted by Goon's behavior, so a Goon posts something about how people should only be revolted by child molesters? Not only does that not make any sense, it also has nothing to do with the actual topic at hand. I would personally agree that "revulsion" is somewhat a strong word, but people are "revolted" by different things. You have to remember this isnt SomethingAwful. We didn't all pay $10 for the right to behave in a socially unacceptable manner consequence free (to paraphrase the words of someone else). EVE is a mini-society, and like any other society if you don't conform to the social mores and folkways you will be sanctioned. Forgive my sociology termininology, took a class on Social Deviance last semester. Nemo me impune lacessit*
Anille Kole Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:32:00 - [396] Apparently the new Goon fad is to spam threads until they get locked or deleted once they've fired off their round or two of propaganda. My post isn't helping, but I'm trying to be stylish! ________________________________ Lovable alt. <3
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:33:00 - [397] Edited by: Cvuos on 28/07/2006 23:33:06 ^^^ and girl, you are succeeding! Wooof! Originally by: Sochin You guys have this wierd habit of taking arguements to completely ridiculous places just to try and win them. And you guys have a habit of not responding to the properly phrased arguments, but stick to quipping at the short ones. I wrote a few long, harsh, honest ones a few pages back, noone bothered addressing the actual issues. So why bother? Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.
ProphetGuru Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:35:00 - [398] I thought you guys were supposed to be like, really good at this forum whoring thing? lol. You have Calenth (omg I can say machivellian!!!11) posting the same thing over and over again, and 423 goons spouting random stuff that noone but eachother find remotely amusing. Hell, even the quality of your insults is subpar. (No I don't give lessons) You even have a goon member pointing out spelling errors ffs lmao! Since the initial decision was made by BoB leadership, you have been, and are still being played like puppets. It's kinda funny to be honest. Some random goon that I don't feel searching for in the last few threads stated something to the effect that "goon never lose a forum battle". ROFL. You can't win anything when you are being led by the nose by your opponents. Now, I am quite sure their will be 27 goon posts isolating 1 sentance I said, and using it to try and make me look like I said something I didn't and that's fine tbh. Every time you guys do that you simply dig a deeper whole, and it's nothing anyone who has read these forums for long hasn't seen 1000 times before. You guys need to pick up your game. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Cutie Chaser	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:35:00 - [399] Originally by: Nova Cygni Originally by: Cutie Chaser The SA community once delegated a portion of their commmunity to a single forum refered to as a 'Concentration Camp', marked them with yellow stars under their names, then banned them later. So glad we have such a community joining us in eve, and I hope the irony of your statement is apparent. Hey, i hear we can take things wildly out of context in here? Oh hay, i hear that SA hates Jewish people and that none of the moderators are Jewish. Thats what i heard. Jesus your fat. PS sorry you got banned from SA :( Never been a member, know people who are. Out of context? I dunno it seemed to follow directly from what was being said, was relevent to the discussion of 'community', and I feel that the irony was rather obvious. If it was too subtle, then I apologies. There have been had pages of Goons who seem surprised at the amount of hatred that they seem to get for no reason, or over what they consider a long-ago incident. I am merely saying that maybe looking back over your history, you shouldn't be so suprised? Alot of people don't care for SA for one reason or another, and that surely helped everything come to a head here.
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:36:00 - [400] Originally by: Cvuos Edited by: Cvuos on 28/07/2006 23:33:06 ^^^ and girl, you are succeeding! Wooof! Originally by: Sochin You guys have this wierd habit of taking arguements to completely ridiculous places just to try and win them. And you guys have a habit of not responding to the properly phrased arguments, but stick to quipping at the short ones. I wrote a few long, harsh, honest ones a few pages back, noone bothered addressing the actual issues. So why bother? This is like the 5th thread on this whole incident. I've replied to the same arguements way to many times. Now I just ignore ones I've already answered and look for new stuff. I had a mean analogy all prepped, but im trying to be nicer today then I was yesterday. Nemo me impune lacessit
Cvuos GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:38:00 - [401] Originally by: Sochin We didn't all pay $10 for the right to behave in a socially unacceptable manner consequence free (to paraphrase the words of someone else). I forgot to mention, SA is about the most consequence-filled forum there is. Everyone on this forum would get banned for posting like they do, including me like I've done in this thread, but particularly the "lol tbh ffs" guy above. (see I didn't even I have to quote anything) Originally by: Dianabolic If you guys really think you can keep eve seperate from rl with all the politics and oog coordination that goes on then you really are deluded.

Vanamonde	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:39:00 - [402] Locked for a short de-alt'ing session. [Read the Rules!] \| [[email protected]] Vanamonde: by Arthur C. Clarke

Grayton GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 23:50:00 - [403] For once I'm going to make a serious reply Ever since GF was formed, all we've ever gotten is insulted and put down on these forums. We move into Syndicate and everyone calls us "lol t1 noobs come back when you aren't mining slaves". We officially join an alliance and everyone says "lol t1 noobs you'll never clear out Syndicate". We, with the help of our amazing allies, drive off NBSI, BRS, Galactica Aurora, and a couple others, and pretty much secure Syndicate in ways it hasn't been for a long time, with only occasional pirate gate camps like any other region, and everyone here says "lol t1 noobs come back when you do something important like take someone else's space." So we invade Outer Ring, have many a good fight with NORAD, and heavily, heavily contest it, and everyone says "lol t1 noobs come back when you've taken conquerable space." So next up is, of course, our accidental early invasion of Cloud Ring. We held sov for weeks, and even though the fight has never been over, we were doing pretty freaking good considering. And what does everyone here say? "lol t1 noobs you only win using cheap tactics and exploits and cheating and you could have never done it without your allies and they didn't even want that system anyway they aren't devoting all of their forces to it come back when you have something worthy to brag about." I'm pretty sure that even if we bought or trained up 50 dread pilots, singlehandedly took over the entire North by ourselves without any allied support, established sov in 100 systems and put up 50 outposts, we'd come back on here and still just hear "lol t1 noobs come back when you've accomplished something important". And you know what this has taught us? That the Eve-O corp forums aren't worth anything. The people on it are just out to flame us and make us look bad no matter what we accomplish. Sure, we may get a "good going" here and there, but they are few and far between compared to all of the "lol t1 noobs u suck". So Rem unleashed the flood gates and allowed us to post, because frankly, we don't care anymore. We don't care who we ** off on here anymore because we have realized that no matter what we do, no matter what we say, no matter how civil or nice we are or how ruthless and cruel we are, the people on these forums will always react the same way. I'm not saying I agree with everything some of our members post. I'm not saying I agree with the ways all of our members act. All I'm saying is that you all can blame us all you want for the forum *dom as much as you want. You all helped shape the way we think towards these forums just as much as our own background and internet culture did. And because of this, we have no problems anymore with **ing off as many of you as possible. Afterall, you've been doing the exact same to us for nine straight months.

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