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Amarr Citizen 1312151005
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
48
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 10:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Morganta wrote:there appear to be reports circulating stating a new game has been scraped and in the last 18 months eve lost 44 million bucks on R&D yet only makes about 6 million or less a year???
is there an existing discussion about this? is there official news? what got scrapped? should I just "not worry, it will be all right?"
is this just propaganda from the RSI people?
Your numbers are made-up and stupid. Your rumor-mongering deserves a lock. Contract all your stuff to me, and biomass your toons. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-15-ccp-drops-into-red-losing-USD21m-in-fy-2013
They spent 40 Million In R&D. So his numbers have some factual backing. Stop being a CCP fan boy and getting mad when someone says something mean about "your game"
I know you live and breath EVE but I could never understand why people take it as a personal attack when someone says something bad about EVE.
https://www.ccpgames.com/media/47381/ccp%20financial%20statements%20june%2030%202013.pdf
CCP does not make much profit at the end of the day so even a loss of 23M is a huge deal. and even after all the lay offs they were still in the RED.
Red means they had to spend money out of pocket to run the business for that year.
Do some damn research so someone else doesn't have to do it just to make you look like the idiot you are. |
Amarr Citizen 1312151005
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
52
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 10:31:20 -
[32] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Morganta wrote:there appear to be reports circulating stating a new game has been scraped and in the last 18 months eve lost 44 million bucks on R&D yet only makes about 6 million or less a year???
is there an existing discussion about this? is there official news? what got scrapped? should I just "not worry, it will be all right?"
is this just propaganda from the RSI people?
Your numbers are made-up and stupid. Your rumor-mongering deserves a lock. Contract all your stuff to me, and biomass your toons. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-15-ccp-drops-into-red-losing-USD21m-in-fy-2013
They spent 40 Million In R&D. So his numbers have some factual backing. Stop being a CCP fan boy and getting mad when someone says something mean about "your game"
I know you live and breath EVE but I could never understand why people take it as a personal attack when someone says something bad about EVE.
https://www.ccpgames.com/media/47381/ccp%20financial%20statements%20june%2030%202013.pdf
CCP does not make much profit at the end of the day so even a loss of 23M is a huge deal. and even after all the lay offs they were still in the RED.
Red means they had to spend money out of pocket to run the business for that year.
Do some damn research so someone else doesn't have to do it just to make you look like the idiot you are. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
856
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 10:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Don't worry, when EVE dies we can all go play Elite Dangerous multiplayer....
Also, posting in a stealth Goon troll thread....:)
grrr goons!!!
Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1018
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 10:36:46 -
[34] - Quote
Don't worry, when EVE dies we can all go play Elite Dangerous multiplayer....
Also, posting in a stealth Goon troll thread....:)
grrr goons!!!
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6573
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Posted - 2014.09.08 10:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Amarr Citizen 1312151005 wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Morganta wrote:there appear to be reports circulating stating a new game has been scraped and in the last 18 months eve lost 44 million bucks on R&D yet only makes about 6 million or less a year???
is there an existing discussion about this? is there official news? what got scrapped? should I just "not worry, it will be all right?"
is this just propaganda from the RSI people?
Your numbers are made-up and stupid. Your rumor-mongering deserves a lock. Contract all your stuff to me, and biomass your toons. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-15-ccp-drops-into-red-losing-USD21m-in-fy-2013They spent 40 Million In R&D. So his numbers have some factual backing. Stop being a CCP fan boy and getting mad when someone says something mean about "your game" I know you live and breath EVE but I could never understand why people take it as a personal attack when someone says something bad about EVE. https://www.ccpgames.com/media/47381/ccp%20financial%20statements%20june%2030%202013.pdfCCP does not make much profit at the end of the day so even a loss of 23M is a huge deal. and even after all the lay offs they were still in the RED. Red means they had to spend money out of pocket to run the business for that year. Do some damn research so someone else doesn't have to do it just to make you look like the idiot you are. You do realize they actually didn't spend or lose that money that year. What they did was scrap projects, that were a drain on their resources and marked the estimated value of those investments as a negative, since they weren't going to produce a profit. This reduces their expenses, their income stream didn't plummet and they get to put a big negative number on their balance sheet, which probably just allows them to reduce the amount of taxes they have to pay. So a stable amount of money still coming in and a reduction in expenses. All of it puts CCP in a much better position financially then they used to be. |
Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1404
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 10:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
Destination skill queue with the best answer in my mind
EVE is broken but we carry on paying and playing as we know they have the talent to fix it.
As with all good love affairs, the the good times will outshine the bad. *signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums* |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
5965
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 11:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'm guessing you're referring to this financial statement, and mangling the facts horribly.
CCP spent 56.6 million in R&D last year and so their total loss for the year was 21.3 million. That was 40 million more in R&D than the year before, so if they had spent the same as last year on R&D, how much would they have made this year?
And for the record, spending money on R&D is not 'losing' money. It is important for any company to continue to expand and diversify in products and technologies. Even if their bid into World of Darkness didn't work, there are no guarantees in the game development business and rolling the dice in the first place is what counts. You'll notice that it hasn't stopped them from getting right back up and giving it another go with Valkyrie. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
12411
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 11:16:29 -
[38] - Quote
I'm guessing you're referring to this financial statement, and mangling the facts horribly.
CCP spent 56.6 million in R&D last year and so their total loss for the year was 21.3 million. That was 40 million more in R&D than the year before, so if they had spent the same as last year on R&D, how much would they have made this year?
And for the record, spending money on R&D is not 'losing' money. It is important for any company to continue to expand and diversify in products and technologies. Even if their bid into World of Darkness didn't work, there are no guarantees in the game development business and rolling the dice in the first place is what counts. You'll notice that it hasn't stopped them from getting right back up and giving it another go with Valkyrie. |
Charax Bouclier
Emerald Drama Theatrics
66
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 13:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:I'm guessing you're referring to this financial statement, and mangling the facts horribly. CCP spent 56.6 million in R&D last year and so their total loss for the year was 21.3 million. That was 40 million more in R&D than the year before, so if they had spent the same as last year on R&D, how much would they have made this year? And for the record, spending money on R&D is not 'losing' money. It is important for any company to continue to expand and diversify in products and technologies. Even if their bid into World of Darkness didn't work, there are no guarantees in the game development business and rolling the dice in the first place is what counts. You'll notice that it hasn't stopped them from getting right back up and giving it another go with Valkyrie.
Yep.
CCP still has 67M of development costs sitting on the balance sheet as asset. If a project doesn't work out, they write off that asset as an expense (like what they just did), which is why you saw that blip.
If they were writing off all their development costs, THEN you might be concerned, but hopefully so,e of their projects WILL hit, generating some solid long-term profitability. It's expected that you will see some write-offs in the interim when they cancel stuff they are working on. Better to fail sooner and write it off than to keep throwing cash at it.
Basically, this isn't much of a story except for people who cannot read financial statements and fixate on a non-cash flow bottom line loss number. I guess there are a few trolls who revel in the "sky is falling" mantra.
Edit: Just to give you guys some perspective:
Cash flow from operations: $23.1M Cash spent on development: $26.6M Cash spent on financing (largely repayments): $2.6M
If the company flat out stopped development on new projects, they'd be bringing in a nice chunk of cash each year. |
Charax Bouclier
Silvershield Universal
141
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 13:41:37 -
[40] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:I'm guessing you're referring to this financial statement, and mangling the facts horribly. CCP spent 56.6 million in R&D last year and so their total loss for the year was 21.3 million. That was 40 million more in R&D than the year before, so if they had spent the same as last year on R&D, how much would they have made this year? And for the record, spending money on R&D is not 'losing' money. It is important for any company to continue to expand and diversify in products and technologies. Even if their bid into World of Darkness didn't work, there are no guarantees in the game development business and rolling the dice in the first place is what counts. You'll notice that it hasn't stopped them from getting right back up and giving it another go with Valkyrie.
Yep.
CCP still has 67M of development costs sitting on the balance sheet as asset. If a project doesn't work out, they write off that asset as an expense (like what they just did), which is why you saw that blip.
If they were writing off all their development costs, THEN you might be concerned, but hopefully so,e of their projects WILL hit, generating some solid long-term profitability. It's expected that you will see some write-offs in the interim when they cancel stuff they are working on. Better to fail sooner and write it off than to keep throwing cash at it.
Basically, this isn't much of a story except for people who cannot read financial statements and fixate on a non-cash flow bottom line loss number. I guess there are a few trolls who revel in the "sky is falling" mantra.
Edit: Just to give you guys some perspective:
Cash flow from operations: $23.1M Cash spent on development: $26.6M Cash spent on financing (largely repayments): $2.6M
If the company flat out stopped development on new projects, they'd be bringing in a nice chunk of cash each year. |
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1958
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 14:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
Amarr Citizen 1312151005 wrote: "spent" is totally different from "lost". It's not my fault his reading comprehension is bad.
Quote:Stop being a CCP fan boy and getting mad when someone says something mean about "your game" I'm not "fanboy'ing", I'm correcting willfully stupid misinformation. You should see me when someone says "vaccines cause autism".... it's a thousand times worse.
Quote:I know you live and breath EVE but I could never understand why people take it as a personal attack when someone says something bad about EVE. Actually, I spend more time wrenching on my project car and going to college than I do on EVE. So, insult fail.
Quote:https://www.ccpgames.com/media/47381/ccp%20financial%20statements%20june%2030%202013.pdf
CCP does not make much profit at the end of the day so even a loss of 23M is a huge deal. and even after all the lay offs they were still in the RED.
Red means they had to spend money out of pocket to run the business for that year. Are you an accountant? Furthermore, are you CCP's accountant? What are your qualifications to determine all of this? Right now, you sound like you just want to stir up a panic, which is what even makes me pissy to begin with. Stop rabble-rousing and either play the damn game, or leave.
Quote:Do some damn research so someone else doesn't have to do it just to make you look like the idiot you are. My research begins and ends with "subscription numbers are up and I can still log into the game". What more do I need to know? You mouthbreathers have been saying "EVE is dying" for 11 1/2 years, and it's going nowhere but up (except the Summer of Rage hiccup). So, kindly sit down, shut up, and leave the rest of us alone. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2281
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 14:43:14 -
[42] - Quote
Amarr Citizen 1312151005 wrote: "spent" is totally different from "lost". And that number is still highly exaggerated. It's not my fault his reading comprehension is bad. (Note: that written-off amount was accrued over the course of 5 years. Comprehension is your friend)
Quote:Stop being a CCP fan boy and getting mad when someone says something mean about "your game" I'm not "fanboy'ing", I'm correcting willfully stupid misinformation. You should see me when someone says "vaccines cause autism".... it's a thousand times worse.
Quote:I know you live and breath EVE but I could never understand why people take it as a personal attack when someone says something bad about EVE. Actually, I spend more time wrenching on my project car and going to college than I do on EVE. So, insult fail.
Quote:https://www.ccpgames.com/media/47381/ccp%20financial%20statements%20june%2030%202013.pdf
CCP does not make much profit at the end of the day so even a loss of 23M is a huge deal. and even after all the lay offs they were still in the RED.
Red means they had to spend money out of pocket to run the business for that year. Are you an accountant? Furthermore, are you CCP's accountant? What are your qualifications to determine all of this? Right now, you sound like you just want to stir up a panic, which is what even makes me pissy to begin with. Stop rabble-rousing and either play the damn game, or leave.
Quote:Do some damn research so someone else doesn't have to do it just to make you look like the idiot you are. My research begins and ends with "subscription numbers are up and I can still log into the game". What more do I need to know? You mouthbreathers have been saying "EVE is dying" for 11 1/2 years, and it's going nowhere but up (except the Summer of Rage hiccup). So, kindly sit down, shut up, and leave the rest of us alone.
(PS: reading conjecture-ridden biased blogs writ by basement-dwelling neckbeards who end their "journalism" entries with "#GamerGate", isn't research. That's called the rumor mill)
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Arla Sarain
73
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 14:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
WIS is coming! |
Arla Sarain
150
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 14:48:53 -
[44] - Quote
WIS is coming! |
Persifonne
Monkey Demons Of Narnia
39
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 06:02:26 -
[45] - Quote
What were they researching? How OP scorch is and that it needs a 2% nerf? |
Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
217
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 06:07:30 -
[46] - Quote
It lives again! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5743
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 07:56:24 -
[47] - Quote
There are only two things that rise from the dead.
And threads are one of them.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Persifonne
Monkey Demons Of Narnia
40
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 07:58:10 -
[48] - Quote
It was accident. Mistake. Mishap. Error |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1606
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 08:40:17 -
[49] - Quote
Lost or maby invested in R&D
Akrasjel Lanate
General Director(CEO) of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1414
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 08:51:13 -
[50] - Quote
Don't worry - literally every feature of EVE can be found in other spaceship MMO games now, often with higher quality. Except for territorial warfare - which isn't that much different from PvE grind.
Another reason not to worry - shutdown of WoD and Dust development has resulted in reanimation of EVE development. |
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2493
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 08:53:49 -
[51] - Quote
Don Aubaris wrote:And now serious : CCP just cleaned up their books. A lot of mismanagement and hot air got cleaned out. It doesn't mean they actually spend that money. They just scrapped money that wasn't there anymore anyway. Don't you just love bookkeeping. Basically, this.
Looking at the balance sheets from the outside, the impression is that CCP for the last years have made lots of money from EVE and spent it on other projects (WoD, Dust, etc.).
But WoD has been scrapped and Dust probably isn't making much money at the moment.
So, from the shareholders' point of view, they wasted money. That can happen to any company that is taking risks on new projects, especially in these troubled economic times. Only a high-level insider can know if, in CCP's case, it was more bad luck or bad management, or both.
OTOH, a large proportion of that money went to paying devs, so from the devs' point of view, it was money well spent while it lasted.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
828
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 09:10:16 -
[52] - Quote
Maybe they should have invested in PI... |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3323
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 10:09:19 -
[53] - Quote
Oh look, a necro.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
390
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 10:24:14 -
[54] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Oh look, a necro.
Yeah, nothing like a stale thread freshly dug from a grave. |
Serene Repose
1672
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 10:36:04 -
[55] - Quote
Yah, speaking Icelandic is my thing. After I learned that, I dove right into Icelandic corporate holdings reports! It was either that or the Icelandic phone book. I'd look for Eric The Red first, and if het's not there...what's Icelandic for pizza? *checks notes*
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
8712
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 11:16:20 -
[56] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Wasn't all the work done for World of Darkness written off under R&D? Yes. That is the bulk of the amount the OP is talking about. When you look at it that way, they actually have a pretty decent net gain, once they cut out all the pork.
I like Bacon.
Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap.
Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1414
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 11:31:38 -
[57] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Oh look, a necro.
And I thought it's Morganta returned to the forum... |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
171
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 14:19:05 -
[58] - Quote
Morganta wrote:there appear to be reports circulating stating a new game has been scraped and in the last 18 months eve lost 44 million bucks on R&D yet only makes about 6 million or less a year???
is there an existing discussion about this? is there official news? what got scrapped? should I just "not worry, it will be all right?"
is this just propaganda from the RSI people?
Its accurate. You see, CCP is terrible at making games other than Eve(which itself has a ton of flaws, but no real competition). THey have lost(and continue to lose) a ton of money off of trying to make other games. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
171
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 14:22:45 -
[59] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Well it seems the servers are still up, so I think I'll leave the financial issues to CCP and concentrate on playing the game.
When the server doesn't come up anymore, then I'll have a meltdown. The forums better still be open then. My thread-naught is going to be epic.
Even if CCP goes under its unlikely Eve is going to shut down(unless Eve itself starts losing serious money).
Most likely it will be sold off to another company like EA who will try to squeeze everything they can out of it. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
171
|
Posted - 2014.11.29 14:27:55 -
[60] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:I'm guessing you're referring to this financial statement, and mangling the facts horribly. CCP spent 56.6 million in R&D last year and so their total loss for the year was 21.3 million. That was 40 million more in R&D than the year before, so if they had spent the same as last year on R&D, how much would they have made this year? And for the record, spending money on R&D is not 'losing' money. It is important for any company to continue to expand and diversify in products and technologies. Even if their bid into World of Darkness didn't work, there are no guarantees in the game development business and rolling the dice in the first place is what counts. You'll notice that it hasn't stopped them from getting right back up and giving it another go with Valkyrie.
Expanding and diversifying is only a good idea if you can actually make profitable projects. Otherwise you are better off focusing on current projects and giving the profits to shareholders. |
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