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Tiger Tesla
Periphery Bound
Dominatus Atrum Mortis
40
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Posted - 2014.09.09 12:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now that Matias Otero has resigned and Asayanami Dei has taken his place (link), will wormholers have the amount of representation that we need in order to have our voices heard?
Personally I am not sure that representation is the issue, as we already have a CSM representative that seems to really understand the wormhole community. Maybe it is possible that having more than one voice on the CSM makes the issues of wormholers seem more legitimate.
It really bothered me during the alliance tournament when I heard them talking about how they would be changing 0.0, and that they were bringing it up now to start the dialog going so that they could work out the best direction to go with players. CCP kept emphasizing how the key is to take time to make sure the change is the right change. I can't help but think that if the wormhole community had as much representation that they might have approached the wormhole changes in the same way. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
810
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 12:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't think CSM representation is the issue though it won't hurt to have someone with Asayanami's experience there.
I think to a certain degree it could be that CCP is too stretched to focus on both wormholes and nullsec (and other stuff), unlike other areas we don't really have someone from CCP who is more actively engaged with the community here and with all due respect when CCP community representatives have jumped into the topic(s) they appear to be playing catch up on what is going on and not really fully upto speed. |
Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
16
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 13:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
meh possibly.
Corbexx has done an outsanding job so far, another rep may be useful to help out with research, but decisions still comes down to ccp.
I'd take AT coverage with a huge grain of salt. It is mainly null corps who submit teams, so it makes sense their coverage addresses that audience. However, as someone who has done a fair amount of SOV warfare, I'd be curious how they are going to approach null. Changing a few stats here and there is not going to cut it with that crowd. |
Bronya Boga
Isogen 5
463
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 13:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
I am on a large belief, based on interviews and recent posts by Asay, that he might actually make things move slower because his views are very polarized with corbexxs. At least from what I have observed.
Host of Down The Pipe-áIngame Channel DTP Podcast
www.downthepipe-wh.com
GÇïIsogen 5 is recruiting. Check us out
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Billy Hardcore
Jaded.
155
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 15:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bronya Boga wrote:I am on a large belief, based on interviews and recent posts by Asay, that he might actually make things move slower because his views are very polarized with corbexxs. At least from what I have observed.
Agreed.....
#BillyFleet |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1814
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Posted - 2014.09.09 15:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's good to have a new perspective so ultimately yes, it will help.
Don't forget that the CSM are not making the decisions, their job is to provide feedback and represent the community. Any "slowing of the process" is on CCP.
+1 |
Abbie Rova
Dracos Dozen
20
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Posted - 2014.09.09 16:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bronya Boga wrote:I am on a large belief, based on interviews and recent posts by Asay, that he might actually make things move slower because his views are very polarized with corbexxs. At least from what I have observed.
While this may seem like the case at first glance.
I am of the opinion that it wont slow the process down, but add to the process.
what we dont need is more yes men. And having 2 wh CSM members with opposing views is a good thing.
Take for example the new frig wh's, and jump mass distance.
Now CCP is going to implement anything they want to, CSM or no CSM.
But if say corbexx was all for more frig whs, and increased distance from the wh based on mass, and asay was for less frig whs and decreased distance based on mass. surely this would help balance the arguments on both sides and allow CCP to come up with a compromise or just ignore the CSM suggestions.
TLDR. more WH CSM are good because hopefully we dont have more yes men and creating more serious internet spaceship discussions |
Bronya Boga
Isogen 5
470
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 16:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Abbie Rova wrote:Bronya Boga wrote:I am on a large belief, based on interviews and recent posts by Asay, that he might actually make things move slower because his views are very polarized with corbexxs. At least from what I have observed. While this may seem like the case at first glance. I am of the opinion that it wont slow the process down, but add to the process. what we dont need is more yes men. And having 2 wh CSM members with opposing views is a good thing. Take for example the new frig wh's, and jump mass distance. Now CCP is going to implement anything they want to, CSM or no CSM. But if say corbexx was all for more frig whs, and increased distance from the wh based on mass, and asay was for less frig whs and decreased distance based on mass. surely this would help balance the arguments on both sides and allow CCP to come up with a compromise or just ignore the CSM suggestions. TLDR. more WH CSM are good because hopefully we dont have more yes men and creating more serious internet spaceship discussions
Based on evidence(NDA things aside) CCP implemented the Hyperion changes regardless of what corbexxs said(if they ran it by him which we don't know because of NDA). If you think Corbexx is a yes man you have yourself fooled.
Host of Down The Pipe-áIngame Channel DTP Podcast
www.downthepipe-wh.com
GÇïIsogen 5 is recruiting. Check us out
|
Abbie Rova
Dracos Dozen
20
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 16:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bronya Boga wrote:Abbie Rova wrote:Bronya Boga wrote:I am on a large belief, based on interviews and recent posts by Asay, that he might actually make things move slower because his views are very polarized with corbexxs. At least from what I have observed. While this may seem like the case at first glance. I am of the opinion that it wont slow the process down, but add to the process. what we dont need is more yes men. And having 2 wh CSM members with opposing views is a good thing. Take for example the new frig wh's, and jump mass distance. Now CCP is going to implement anything they want to, CSM or no CSM. But if say corbexx was all for more frig whs, and increased distance from the wh based on mass, and asay was for less frig whs and decreased distance based on mass. surely this would help balance the arguments on both sides and allow CCP to come up with a compromise or just ignore the CSM suggestions. TLDR. more WH CSM are good because hopefully we dont have more yes men and creating more serious internet spaceship discussions Based on evidence(NDA things aside) CCP implemented the Hyperion changes regardless of what corbexxs said(if they ran it by him which we don't know because of NDA). If you think Corbexx is a yes man you have yourself fooled.
No no dont think corbexx is a yes man at all. i just dont see how having multiple views will slow the process down, i think it will add an opinion that we wouldnt normally have with just corbexx.
Based on evidence yes they did jsut implement the wh changes without listening to much feedback, but because of NDA we dont know how much or little they did listen to, we can just hope they did listen even a small bit.
I just believe having 2 opposing views from the wh CSM members is a good thing, and not as much of a detriment as you initially think |
Xtrah
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
180
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 16:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
As far as I've heard from podcasts, I am a bit worried our new CSM will not represent the community as much as his own views. No offence Asay, but making w-space harder is not going to attract more/new people.
http://www.youtube.com/NoHolesBarredEVE |
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Peter Moonlight
Aperture Harmonics
No Holes Barred
58
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Posted - 2014.09.09 17:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm not too happy that Asayanami is the new CSM member, simply because I think hes view on some things are very very different from what most of comunity thinks, and if I'm not mistaking they are different from corbexx'es.
Hes a good guy overall, but just might not be the right guy for this job at this moment, but hope we are all wrong, the time will show. |
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
701
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 18:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Xtrah wrote:As far as I've heard from podcasts, I am a bit worried our new CSM will not represent the community as much as his own views. No offence Asay, but making w-space harder is not going to attract more/new people.
And you're basing your opinion on 6 months old data and assume one can not change his opinion in the mean time, considering all that has happened since? That sounds like a lot of fun.
Like I said in the other thread (why are there so many?) give me some time to get my bearings, this whole situation escalated very quickly and there are a lot of things that need to be sorted out before anything can be said or done.
Corbexx, for one, is super helpful so far, and it's only been a couple of hours for me. I honestly think we're off to a pretty good start.
I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I-- THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/asayanami
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Asayanami
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/Asayanami
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DaReaper
Net 7
The Last Brigade
927
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 20:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
I really never understand why people seem to think the CSM has all this power. They are the equivlant of a viceroy, advisor, or in the us' case a Tzar to the President/Dictator.
CCP is the dictator.
They make a decision and go 'hey CSM how does this look to you?"
The CSM looks at it, and based on what they know of the people they represent they can go 'that looks good!" or "No that is garbage here is why" or "you know if you tweeked it this way it would be better"
CCP has final say, they can agree or tell the CSM "too bad, this is how we are doing it" end of discussion.
The point of the CSM is for two fold. 1) Because due to the T20 incident, they made a group of players to act as a kind of watch dog on CCP. If anything funny happens, the players tend to know ti first, and can use the CSM to make CCP aware of misconduct and other issues.
And 2) Because going though hundreds, and hundreds of pages of forum post to get a feel for how people think is a PITA. Its easier to turn tot eh "wh rep" and go 'hey we want to do this, what do you think of this and how will it be received"
That's it. They do nothing else. Have no power, no say. Unless CCP says 'this is a project we want you guys to work on and give direct feed back, we will change it based on what you say." Then the CSM is nothing but a dude who stands there and goes 'I told you so' when the Dictator buys 'invisible' clothes.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
Winthorp
2701
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Posted - 2014.09.09 21:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Asayanami Dei wrote:Xtrah wrote:As far as I've heard from podcasts, I am a bit worried our new CSM will not represent the community as much as his own views. No offence Asay, but making w-space harder is not going to attract more/new people. And you're basing your opinion on 6 months old data and assume one can not change his opinion in the mean time, considering all that has happened since? That sounds like a lot of fun. Like I said in the other thread (why are there so many?) give me some time to get my bearings, this whole situation escalated very quickly and there are a lot of things that need to be sorted out before anything can be said or done. Corbexx, for one, is super helpful so far, and it's only been a couple of hours for me. I honestly think we're off to a pretty good start.
I am basing my view that you will have a very negative impact on WH space on the fact that post CSM election you have barely made a post on WH forums.
In all of the debate on Hyperion you have barely got in on any discussion on it at all. You are one of those CSM politicians that makes a few posts before election and never to be heard of after election. I guess you better think up some opinions now your on CSM.
Sore looser much. |
Moloney
Faceless Men
141
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 21:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
So in short, ccp kicked out an inactive csm so they could take on another that will side with them in this bullshit patch.
I really hope this post can be Tldr'd with "rabble rabble".. we'll see. |
CivilWars
Rolled Out
Triumvirate.
164
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 21:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
I expect to see everyone calling Asayanami out on the ballet next election season. Not saying he is going to do a single thing to affect CCP's decisions, but clearly you guys could have all done a better job.
We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun. |
CivilWars
Rolled Out
Triumvirate.
164
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 21:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Moloney wrote:So in short, ccp kicked out an inactive csm so they could take on another that will side with them in this bullshit patch.
I really hope this post can be Tldr'd with "rabble rabble".. we'll see.
How do you even have any tears left at this point?
We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun. |
Xtrah
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
182
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 21:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Asayanami Dei wrote:Xtrah wrote:As far as I've heard from podcasts, I am a bit worried our new CSM will not represent the community as much as his own views. No offence Asay, but making w-space harder is not going to attract more/new people. And you're basing your opinion on 6 months old data and assume one can not change his opinion in the mean time, considering all that has happened since? That sounds like a lot of fun. Like I said in the other thread (why are there so many?) give me some time to get my bearings, this whole situation escalated very quickly and there are a lot of things that need to be sorted out before anything can be said or done. Corbexx, for one, is super helpful so far, and it's only been a couple of hours for me. I honestly think we're off to a pretty good start.
I am very happy we got another wormhole CSM, don't get me wrong, but the 6 month old data back then is pretty much the same as it is now, excluding the last two weeks, so it isn't obvious to me that you would have changed your mind.
If things are as good as you say and you will be working with corbexx, I am looking forward to the coming months, as I think corbexx (without sounding too biased as we're alliance-mates) has been our best CSM since Two step. Especially as I can see first hand how much time he spends on it, and how highly he cares and wants to succeed.
http://www.youtube.com/NoHolesBarredEVE |
Ahost Gceo
Rolled Out
Triumvirate.
219
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Posted - 2014.09.10 04:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
It has become more apparent over time that the CSM has been used increasingly less and less by CCP for monitoring the wishes of the EVE playerbase. I truly feel sorry for CSM and ex-CSM members because I'm sure that those who read this may acknowledge it with a begrudging sigh of approval.
And I'm not just talking about Hyperion, of which corbexx has repeatedly supported those who have vehemently spoken out against CCP and its brazen ignoring of feedback. Things that have meant a lot to the playerbase at large in terms of quality of play such as the "fixing" of sov mechanics in null, POS changes, and new unique content that have been requested many times over have been largely ignored by CCP in favor of adding "content" that is a rehashing of existing elements and mechanics with a new skin and name. CSM members in the past have also forwarded these bigger projects that we truly want and need, now look where we are. Nothing is really different from the way the game was when I started playing a few years ago.
I have all the warmest wishes for Dei, and sincerely hope I am proven wrong, but I do not forsee anything changing because of CCP's method of operating.
CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense. |
Mister Tuggles
Faceless Men
101
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 08:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hell, you could have monkeys flinging **** at a dartboard instead of CSM members. It doesn't much matter. CCP does what CCP wants.
Our community is like that 18 year old, first time ever drunk girl at the CCP frat party. They are going to have their way with us no matter what we say, or do. |
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O'nira
United System's Commonwealth
39
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Posted - 2014.09.10 10:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mister Tuggles wrote:Hell, you could have monkeys flinging **** at a dartboard instead of CSM members. It doesn't much matter. CCP does what CCP wants.
Our community is like that 18 year old, first time ever drunk girl at the CCP frat party. They are going to have their way with us no matter what we say, or do.
they will be surprised when they realize we are only 16 |
AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
261
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 11:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Abbie Rova wrote:
I just believe having 2 opposing views from the wh CSM members is a good thing, and not as much of a detriment as you initially think
Derp quote of the week?? What you're saying if applied to RL terms is it is better to have two presidents (One Republican and One Democrat) or whichever country's political structure you want to apply it to, with polarized views (I'm not saying Asay has polarized views just commenting on the comment) instead of just one??? 
Congrats
The Nexus 7's
What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1815
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 11:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:Abbie Rova wrote:
I just believe having 2 opposing views from the wh CSM members is a good thing, and not as much of a detriment as you initially think
Derp quote of the week?? What you're saying if applied to RL terms is it is better to have two presidents (One Republican and One Democrat) or whichever country's political structure you want to apply it to, with polarized views (I'm not saying Asay has polarized views just commenting on the comment) instead of just one??? Congrats
No, what he's saying is the democracy is better that a dictatorship.
+1 |
AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
261
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 11:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:Abbie Rova wrote:
I just believe having 2 opposing views from the wh CSM members is a good thing, and not as much of a detriment as you initially think
Derp quote of the week?? What you're saying if applied to RL terms is it is better to have two presidents (One Republican and One Democrat) or whichever country's political structure you want to apply it to, with polarized views (I'm not saying Asay has polarized views just commenting on the comment) instead of just one??? Congrats No, what he's saying is the democracy is better that a dictatorship.
Where's the dictatorship? Corbexx ran, got elected (mostly by us in W-space) and is very careful on sounding out everyone before he represents. That's democracy no? Opposition comes from the backbenchers (us) if needed and is weighed.
I see no benefit in handing CCP another reason to belittle/ignore/set aside by having two representatives who can't seem to agree on anything (not saying that is the case yet).
The Nexus 7's
What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity |
HerrBert
V0LTA
Triumvirate.
507
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 12:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hum? Wasn't he next in line anyway? Doesnt that mean he has the appropiate fellowship but it lacked "voice" during the real run?
First off the changes are here. CCP made clear that they wont go back, so deal with it, well thats kinda of the M.O.
Is Hyperion good? In my twisted and confused mind the only people that are complaining are the people that know how much work it is to do anything in Wormholes. I do have to admit that the average Person had way to much Solo ability to do most of the things in Wormholespace, lets just go through some of the activities I know for a fact you were able to do with one guy partially drunk.
- Rage rolling (pre Hyperion) was one of the easiest thingys you could do if you had 3 active accounts... 1 Dread 1 Orca and 1 Scanner. Easy!
- Sieging: Now this game has completly changed, kinda... but thats need some explanation.
As proofen on my Youtube Channel (shameless plug) you can Siege a small corp with just some mental warfare and 72 hour easy hole control. Here some insight of the Timeschedule of Player activity during that siege:
Day 1: Inserting and hiding dreads, prepping Tower and Equitment in Highsec
Day 2: 2 Dreads RF the tower, Orca constantly on the other side of the static ready to crash
Day 2.5: The Locals try to run we call in 5 Treci Boys for support they stick around for a couple of hours
Day 3: LOOT ALL THE THINGS
During that time we even managed to scare the locals from not using their capitals (they had 10 we 2),,,, aaaaannyway Sieging is too easy. Now the #whenIm40offthehole + Frigate holes mechanics are a great way to help against one of the biggest shitstorms ... The Podexpress. (Funfact i was rage scanning yesterday for a wormhole to stain because Quantum Explosion was farming with an open Frigate hole, sadly ... didnt find a connection. But trust me MY FRIGATES WOULD HAVE BLOCKED OUT THE SKY!)
Anyway Hyperion helped every oversized carebear to feel a little more safer with the downside of requiring more "Teamwork".
Which brings me to the next issue scaling:
A Big Problem of this Forum is the "Can I solo that schei+ƒ with this schei+ƒ?"-Threads
As far as scaling goes Wormholespace was always rather simple. The problem comes with Highskilled players, i dont know the exact number but i expect the average player to be at 20m SP. Which in terms of scaling wormholes sounds more then reasonable. So the option of "Solo-ing" a c4 is kinda not in the scale in fact you could be considered professional. The higher the class the more Teamwork would be required by scaling, with the top of the C6 Space that required at least 5-7 Players being a good team. Dont get me wrong "Solo-ing" is still a thing buuuut it has more work to it. Which is not a problem in a purely teambased enviroment.
Thing is that most "Skeleton Crews" are 1-2 players (that was the **** BU and QE were hunting). With the Ribbon prices in the toilet these skeleton crews would never care how low they dropped becaue the payout is still sufficent, while for lowclass operations or medclass crews the payout which they were sharing would completly tank. Which is a completly new definition on bringing Solo back.
Thank Bob solo got harder.
And now going for my favorite Topic:
DEAR BOB WHY DO I HAVE SO MANY WORMHOLES? Be motherfucking happy about it.
Lets skip back to 2011 when i started having a C6>C3. We had some Issues with hole control back then, since we had to have constantly h probes out and a "guy" on the open holes we couldnt close. That was fairly "player" intense. We had some wierd ideas about hiring a mining crew that could "keep" constant eyes out. So they could mine while we defend and they are our eyes in the Homesystem. (Synergy between Industry and PvE) We even found some miners that were up to it but he died 3 times because he fell asleep. Kinda bad when your security system is busy of dreaming to make out with Jessica Alba.
With alot of patching and changing these "ideas" kinda got obsolete but the "difficulty" had more effect at "thinking outside" the box then the current wormholes with condoms.
Since 2011 all what CCP did was making it easier and easier to a point where you cannot find anyone from the old guard actually going for a "pure" Wormhole expierence (dont wanna **** off noho, but even aharm knows that most of the old players from back then moved out or went afg). Hyperion was the first addon that made it a little bit more inconvinient and I HAVE No problem with that if that means you shitheads have to work more with each other instead of bitching on the forums about how "SMALL CREWS have it hard". (MaxDel would argue that the API Removal did that but i play the ACTUAL FIRST API REMOVAL of the Jumps per system, at least you knew that **** was going with that)
Lets now introduce a scaling methode for you guys that the Average Player for Wormholes CAN UNDERSTAND. I give you the Player indicator for wormhole classes aka Class n. (n = Number of players you need for a decent expierence)
Lets see if you are in Class 1 system, that would mean n = 1 so you need one player.
Class 3, that would mean 3 players. Simple. What ships justify this? I would say Fozzies Hard-On for Cruisers.
So you have a simple reminder on how many players your team needs to actually run the class of wormhole space you inhabit. (Friendly reminder Class 6 would mean 6 Players, if some confusion comes up) (Warning Player does not mean ACCOUNTS)
If you cant motivate your Players to do the things that are required to be in Wormholes it should be at a time for you to move.
But here we come against one of the biggest problems. EVERYBODY is a big fat loot pinata and "moving" to richer hunting grounds is never possible. Or admitting that maybe downscaling a class is an option.
TL:DR "I ve lived here for years" is one of the sadest statements for a community that gets praised for its adaption.
Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me.
http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism
Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 13:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Asayanami Dei wrote:Xtrah wrote:As far as I've heard from podcasts, I am a bit worried our new CSM will not represent the community as much as his own views. No offence Asay, but making w-space harder is not going to attract more/new people. And you're basing your opinion on 6 months old data and assume one can not change his opinion in the mean time, considering all that has happened since? That sounds like a lot of fun. Like I said in the other thread (why are there so many?) give me some time to get my bearings, this whole situation escalated very quickly and there are a lot of things that need to be sorted out before anything can be said or done. Corbexx, for one, is super helpful so far, and it's only been a couple of hours for me. I honestly think we're off to a pretty good start.
If you can sort out your differences with Corby and get behind a unified platform for w-space that can get community support you'd be off to a great start. |
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