I actually wouldn't mind this..

yeah, more off-grid faggotry, thats exactly what we need...

Unfortunately, the lack of frigate/destroyer sized link boats will not make for a link less fight. It just results in only the home team having links. The home team already has a tremendous advantage in what they can bring to the fight. As such a destroyer or frigate sized command boat would be appreciated.

Frigate Command Ship!

As some that spent the time to get the SP to fly a Command Ships and all the skills to support it, this is a terrible idea.

You don't give things to those that have less invested in this game. Let's get an idea that promotes vets to stay, rather than benefitting the noobs.

If you want frigates go to low-sec & try faction warfare.

Frigate Command Ship!

no. eve has a problem retaining noobs. anything that helps them stay while not hurting the "vets" to much is good.

and this wouldn't hurt you at all, these would probably require the same leadership skills and provide less boosts.

i actually agree with that last part though

you understand me, i like you.

Um you joined in 2013... I don't think you know what keeps players.

My hauler alt has more SP than your main.

If you want the benefits skill up or get out! Not everyone gets the trophy for showing up.

Um you joined in 2013... I don't think you know what keeps players.

My hauler alt has more SP than your main.

If you want the benefits skill up or get out! Not everyone gets the trophy for showing up.

People that are saying "just get rid of them" need to wake up. CCP will keep whatever it wants. Make positive suggestions to move it forward or GTFO.

To people that say we don't need to aim for newbies, I say you're wrong. Almost every other skill progression has multiple levels of usefulness, usually with points of mastery. Like generally when training guns someone will probably get T2 small before they move up. They don't HAVE to , but it's more common than not.

As such, I suggest that there be some sort of destroyer command ship option, but it should be maxed out with just the basic warfare skills, and maybe a mindlink. Don't allow the specializations to apply to the boat, and don't give it too much % bonus to skills on the hull. This would make something that people could use to enable frig fleets to be just a bit more competitive. Home field advantage will still be very steep, but this will help some.

What we should be aiming for, IMHO, is to help frig gangs realistically attack people who are running home sites, including capital escalations, without needing 100+ people. I'm not sure what a more realistic number would be, but it would be nice to buff frigs a bit.

Of course, this buff would also mean that roaming frig gangs would be much more powerful, assuming that they weren't using command ship links before. That said, most of K-space would just use command ships because they already are and they'd still be better. They command destroyer concept therefore would be strictly for high-mobility roams, newbies, and WH roams.

I think this idea might actually be quite reasonable and not upset too much of the rest of the game.

Oh, could you make this new ship be built with WH loot please? Maybe that would bump up prices a bit. Write some lore about "sleeper gang assistance technology found by bla bla bla Sleepers bla bla bla Talocan bla bla etc."

Just like, my opinion, man.

What we should be aiming for, IMHO, is to help frig gangs realistically attack people who are running home sites, including capital escalations, without needing 100+ people. I'm not sure what a more realistic number would be, but it would be nice to buff frigs a bit.

Of course, this buff would also mean that roaming frig gangs would be much more powerful, assuming that they weren't using command ship links before. That said, most of K-space would just use command ships because they already are and they'd still be better. They command destroyer concept therefore would be strictly for high-mobility roams, newbies, and WH roams.

I think this idea might actually be quite reasonable and not upset too much of the rest of the game.

Oh, could you make this new ship be built with WH loot please? Maybe that would bump up prices a bit. Write some lore about "sleeper gang assistance technology found by bla bla bla Sleepers bla bla bla Talocan bla bla etc."

Just like, my opinion, man.

People who are too scared to come out of their POS are people who I don't care about. Choosing to not play makes you irrelevant.

Herrbert, that's a fun idea, but then I'd just jump my T3 "boosting ship" fleet in, and then refit inside back to DPS murder. Not a good fix. Love the out of the box thinking though.

People who are too scared to come out of their POS are people who I don't care about. Choosing to not play makes you irrelevant..

Tbh I dont think we can afford to rate anyone as irrelevant, because last time I checked wspace isn't flowing over of active players. Imho players need to be encouraged to play in wspace. More active players playing, more interaction between them.

The food chain need all kinds to thrive.

Yeah, but if you're too scared of the monsters in the dark then you're irrelevant. I know that wormholes are hard and dangerous, but that's what I like about them. I don't want to make them less of either. Rather, I'd like them to be/remain very hard so they reward people with more diligence/experience/understanding.

I think that my proposal supports that.

Greed and entitlement of the carebear are infinite.

As some that spent the time to get the SP to fly a Command Ships and all the skills to support it, this is a terrible idea.

You don't give things to those that have less invested in this game. Let's get an idea that promotes vets to stay, rather than benefitting the noobs.

If you want frigates go to low-sec & try faction warfare.

Destroyer command ships are a good idea. And its not as if you wont have to train all the same skills as for a BC CS also the dieas thrown around on F&I about this theorized they would have not as good bonuses.

Destroyer command ships are a good idea. And its not as if you wont have to train all the same skills as for a BC CS also the dieas thrown around on F&I about this theorized they would have not as good bonuses.

I m working on a project for "highlighting the pros and cons" hopefully its gonna be good .. kinda nervous about it :)

Unfortunately, the lack of frigate/destroyer sized link boats will not make for a link less fight. It just results in only the home team having links. The home team already has a tremendous advantage in what they can bring to the fight. As such a destroyer or frigate sized command boat would be appreciated.

Whatever do you mean?

If you want people to "do stuff" in wormholes, there's a food chain effect. I can't PVP if there's nobody in the chains. Bears provide targets for gankers which makes them the plankton of this ecosystem.

Or maybe you think everybody just goes around yelling "PVP for the PVP BOB!" and we come running?

I mean those comments that demand increasing rewards in wormholes, or reducing risks.

100-120mil/hr in C3s, +200mil/hr in C4s, minimum 250mil/hr and higher in C5/C6s. Not sure how little people make in C2s, but the ships required to run there are yet cheaper again. IMHO demanding higher rewards is absurdly greedy.

Pre-Hype bears only ran sites in sealed holes, these days they claim to stay possed up or logged off. There's very little difference to the net effect of their existence, except that rib prices are slowly recovering.

Regardless of who you are in wspace, bear, pvp'er or something in between, everyone need isk to feed their habbits. You do not make 100-120m/hr in a c3 solo. The more people you add to the party the less cut a share.

Best of the combat anoms in a c3 is the Outpost Frontier Stronghold it drops 32.5m in blues + salvage. The time and risk it take to do solo (if you bring your alts, its not solo tbh). Incursion and level 4 missions have better payout than this for time and effort spent.

If reward should match the risk and effort, the rewards should be greater in wspace than high sec right? So boost wspace or nerf high sec?

No, I haven't ran C3s solo, those figures are what we made in C3s with our team setup, per pilot. I'm not sure why you think solo income is relevant in wormholes, 99% of all inhabitants are members of corporations.

Incursions and L4s require a much higher ship and gear investment to reach the same income levels as C3 sites.

Rewards match the risk and effort pretty nicely in w-space, if you think hisec makes better money, by all means make your choices based on your own preferences. There's many of us who don't really care about ISK that much, and make our choices based on other criteria. Like for example having fun while playing.

Why people still keep quoting per hour figures when talking about wormhole sites is beyond me... It only applies to isk sources that are renewable!

Which is exactly what wormhole anomalies are. Clean a system, roll the next one. Cap escs at home obvious exception.

Frig holes need an actual small wormhole that has 2 exits and only such smalls can fly in it. NO home advantage, system for purely frig fights. Otherwise its completely useless connection that only annoys people.

I second this. Once I got over the frig hole blues it seems there are some great opportunities for CCP to turn this into a popular win. If they would offer some incentive for frigs to actually enter a WH in the first place this could work into a nice feature. Think about it, if the rewards are high enough to mitigate some of the risk you could get a fair amount of pew AND have a chance to run some new content. There are days when there is no way in heck you would run sites, not enough folks, connection to a crappy part of K space, whatever. We all have those days for a number of reasons. So why not add some solo or very small gang frig only deadspace type pockets where you are limited to frigs only with really nice rewards. T3's tend to be king in W space simply because they are the correct tool for the job in most instances. I can't help but think that adding content to wormholes as a draw to newer players would be a good thing.