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Insurance on ships. Easy button? Thoughts...

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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:32:00 - [1] I don't want this thread to turn into another high-sec ganking thread but it does have to relate to the situation so feel free to bring it up to make relevant suggestions. Idea: People pay for insurance in Eve based on their prior insurance history. Numerous high-sec kills will in turn raise your premium for the next ship your choose to insure. Shoot too many people? You might not be able to acquire insurance at all. This would only apply for kills made in (.5) and above. (.4) and below would not apply to insurance because the insurance company agents are panzies and won't go out there to inspect the wreckage anyways. In other words, they just take your word for it and pay the full amount. However, trends can be spotted and too many losses in lowsec may cause your insurance to rise. Have good insurance history? You might pay less on your next ship payment. Careless? Going AFK in a lvl III? You might want to pay more attention next time, because your insurance is on the rise. The numbers? I don't know, let CCP figure that out or just pay me to do it.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:34:00 - [2] Disagree. For one reason, it limits the freedom that is EVE.
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:37:00 - [3] since when has insurance agents been bothered to check peoples criminal records? all they check is your economy and if you got loads of money from blowing up other ships and is an active PvPer they'd probably be more than happy to have you as a customer, since you need insurance often for yourself, and you increase the demand for insurance by blowing up other people... It's not a question of ethics, it's all pure business. Nice idea tho, just not very functional.
LightMee	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Disagree. For one reason, it limits the freedom that is EVE. Removing insurance LIMITS the freedom? How?
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:39:00 - [5] Originally by: LightMee Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Disagree. For one reason, it limits the freedom that is EVE. Removing insurance LIMITS the freedom? How? If people think they won't get an insurance payout of it will cost them a hell of a lot more they won't risk losing their ship, thus limiting their gameplay. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:39:00 - [6] Remove insurance completely. Can't get fairer than that. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:42:00 - [7] Originally by: Terraform since when has insurance agents been bothered to check peoples criminal records? all they check is your economy and if you got loads of money from blowing up other ships and is an active PvPer they'd probably be more than happy to have you as a customer, since you need insurance often for yourself, and you increase the demand for insurance by blowing up other people... It's not a question of ethics, it's all pure business. Nice idea tho, just not very functional. Ummmm (if) the Eve insurance company was an actual company, they would be losing millions upon millions on suicide gankers. So no, that doesn't pan out. How much is insurance on a Caracal, and how much is the payout. Tell me HOW they are making money on these "PvPers" The only part of EVE this limits is really highsec non-consensual PVP. It in no way takes away the freedom of EVE.
Splagada Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:45:00 - [8] Edited by: Splagada on 02/08/2006 20:46:17 Insurance in eve is badly implemented we insure ships and done so what? as we can insure, why cant i do the following? i would like to insure my fitting i would like to insure my hauling contract with another corp i would like to insure, why not, my gang operation on some other corp? i would like to insure my pos (the day i have one lol) against a pirate attack i would like to insure my cargo i do not understand how an insurance will pay anything to those killed by concord or sentries. i would like, if i was owner of a big corp with much assets, to be able to act like an insurer in real life, whenever there is a risk, there is an insurance. sometimes it's stupid (some acress insuring their legs), most of the time it's useful (i want to insure my pos against an attack) i want the same in eve, insurance is not enough, or too much. i agree with the OP, the price should raise with the stupidness of the player - Looking for technetium delivery contracts
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Disagree. For one reason, it limits the freedom that is EVE. Please elaborate. Insurance has never given me "Freedom." If I lose my ship in a mission I say "phew" at least I can get some of my money back. If a ganker loses a ship in high-sec he laughs at the insurance company and takes out another caracal to go blow up. Seems like the dumbest damn insurance company in the world to me.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Avon Remove insurance completely. Can't get fairer than that. LOL, that might work for someone who is financially stable, and has easy access to big ISK. But that n00b who just got his Megathron and didn't quite expect Level 4 missions to be so hard, and don't have insurance, will see things quite differently.

UGWidowmaker Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:50:00 - [11] I always htought the insurance was a joke, however. its all good for new players and such. heres my idea on how to solwe the insurance and such.. While you are in war your insurance company will not pay out if u loose your ship to a cooperation you are in war with. this way wars would also have an end. atm wars are stupid. making stuff around insurance would help on this.. SO While in war = NO insurance. I will make u into biosource...
PeeWee Pee	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:55:00 - [12] insurance needs be player run not npc run. else you never getting a system that make sence. npc be like printing money for no risk.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:57:00 - [13] In RL insurance, people pay different premiums based on their previous claims. If someone makes lots of claims (i.e. often in a crash/etc), his premiums rise. Should be same in EvE. Bust instead of basing it on previous claims, base it on person's security standing =================================== Above comments are my personal views, and do not represent my corporation or alliance, unless otherwise indicated
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Avon Remove insurance completely. Can't get fairer than that. LOL, that might work for someone who is financially stable, and has easy access to big ISK. But that n00b who just got his Megathron and didn't quite expect Level 4 missions to be so hard, and don't have insurance, will see things quite differently. If you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it. The reason so many people complain about their losses is that they overstretch themselves, and put all their eggs in one basket. I can't remember the last time I insured a ship. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:58:00 - [15] lol, whatever player decided to take that task on would never make a profit. I've only had a few contracts expire of course I've never really PvP'd with this char either. If you made insurance run by players it would cost you 20ml to insure a 22ml Ferox. Even if you built up a reputation of not loosing ships, there would be a strong hesitance after you lost even one for the player running the insurance to re-offer insurance. Too much worrying, no one would take it on as a profession.
PeeWee Pee	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:04:00 - [16] Originally by: hydraSlav In RL insurance, people pay different premiums based on their previous claims. If someone makes lots of claims (i.e. often in a crash/etc), his premiums rise. Should be same in EvE. Bust instead of basing it on previous claims, base it on person's security standing you gotz to be kidding me dude. what does security standing have to do with how you fly. the best pilotz most have neg standings the pos ones are carebear stoopid pilotz that can be picked on easily. me thinks ccp make insurance run by players like player corp run. you decide to insure or not and what price. insurance corp must have nuff capitolz to back it up and sell shares. otherwise it be like printing money from npc insurance. make sure everyone buy insurance by concord give fines for those who get caught flying with no insurance just like RL. those who fly in empire must have insurance those in low sec and 0.0 can fly without. insurance only bought from player run insurance co
PeeWee Pee	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:05:00 - [17] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO lol, whatever player decided to take that task on would never make a profit. I've only had a few contracts expire of course I've never really PvP'd with this char either. If you made insurance run by players it would cost you 20ml to insure a 22ml Ferox. Even if you built up a reputation of not loosing ships, there would be a strong hesitance after you lost even one for the player running the insurance to re-offer insurance. Too much worrying, no one would take it on as a profession. easy dude like you sayz players can look into insurance buyer's vehicle records and see how many ships he lost and decide to insure or not like in RL. with no insurance player cannot fly in empire or risk get fined by concord. player who lose ships a lotz will be asked a higher price insurance. problem solved.
Reiisha Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:09:00 - [18] - Keep insurance as it is in 0.5+ - Halve it in 0.1-0.4 - Remove it in 0.0 - Void it with any self destruct When signing an insurance contract, the insurance company makes sure you're not going to risk it at risky places. You're not going to get life insurance if you commit suicide, which is the best example for this. (Of course, clonse are exempt from this for obvious reasons). So, why would an insurance company pay everything out in full when they know you're going to risk it in almost lawless space, no protection, fully knowing the risks there? Simple enough to understand.
PeeWee Pee	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Reiisha - Keep insurance as it is in 0.5+ - Halve it in 0.1-0.4 - Remove it in 0.0 - Void it with any self destruct When signing an insurance contract, the insurance company makes sure you're not going to risk it at risky places. You're not going to get life insurance if you commit suicide, which is the best example for this. (Of course, clonse are exempt from this for obvious reasons). So, why would an insurance company pay everything out in full when they know you're going to risk it in almost lawless space, no protection, fully knowing the risks there? Simple enough to understand. - 0.5+ must fly with insurance else concord give fines - 0.1-0.4 can fly with insurance with negotiate payz - 0.0 no insurance payout insurance must be issued by player corp with enuff capitolz from shareholders. there be insurance officer to determine whether insurance be sold or not based on player ship loss history. high risk offenders must be asked more or denied insurance. no npc insurance issue. you know you love it
wander about	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:16:00 - [20] Insurance means nothing after a year. Take a fully tech 2/faction fitted hac into a bad place and leap for joy at the 15mill insurance payout. So leave insurance alone; it helps new players, it keeps wars going, it allows early pvp, it means little at the top end. So I ain't signing this thread

Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Avon Remove insurance completely. Can't get fairer than that. LOL, that might work for someone who is financially stable, and has easy access to big ISK. But that n00b who just got his Megathron and didn't quite expect Level 4 missions to be so hard, and don't have insurance, will see things quite differently. If you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it. The reason so many people complain about their losses is that they overstretch themselves, and put all their eggs in one basket. I can't remember the last time I insured a ship. Well, you see - to an extent I agree with you, that there has to be negative consequence for lack of foresight, and I believe the fact that you cannot insure anything except from your ship is negative consequence enough. However, as far as removing insurance entirely, which you are proposing, I have to strongly disagree - as that would simply be too much for a lot of people, who learn by making mistakes. After all, as I was touching on before, this is an open-ended game with lot of opportunity, and compared to most MMORPG's there are a lot more negative consequences to eg. dying. The freedom I am talking about is the fact that you can perform "out of the box" actions that create a more alive universe (imo). Whereas the situation where everyone had to be damn cautious about keeping their ships intact, we would see a lot more players huddling in stations whenever they found a sign of trouble. At least now people dare take a bit extra chance in the game, which create more opportunities for pirates (such as me), and also for the miners (as perhaps some pirates would be too damn terrified of losing their ships). I like the fact that people go in battleships and gank people in hi-sec. Why? Becuase it makes the game a bit less predictible. Also, I believe that removing insurance would create an even bigger rift between the older (skillwise) characters, and the younger. Who the hell would fly around in a Tier 2 battleship, unless he had 20 Million skillpoints focused at keeping that battleship intact. The older players would rejoice, but the appeal for the younger audience would become even smaller. I think the insurance, as it is right now works well enough, paying 1/3 of your ship cost to get enough to buy a new ship, but losing all mods you had on it is punishment enough for most players.
ching'sta Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Avon Remove insurance completely. Can't get fairer than that. sounds good to me i forget to insure all the time anyway. Then there is like half of all ships not even worth insure for the low payout. Make insurens payout follow market value or just remove
Reiisha Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:19:00 - [23] Originally by: wander about Take a fully tech 2/faction fitted hac into a bad place and leap for joy at the 15mill insurance payout. So leave insurance alone; it helps new players, it keeps wars going, it allows early pvp, it means little at the top end. Good point indeed, almost forgot...
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:21:00 - [24] Originally by: wander about Insurance means nothing after a year. Take a fully tech 2/faction fitted hac into a bad place and leap for joy at the 15mill insurance payout. So leave insurance alone; it helps new players, it keeps wars going, it allows early pvp, it means little at the top end. So I ain't signing this thread I have a hard time believing that you and others replying to this thread have actually read the proposal at hand. I do not want to remove insurance. I want to limit the use of insurance as a means to pirate in high-sec. My proposal DOES help new players, it DOES keep wars going (Remember your insurance won't increase unless concord pops you for aggressing another player), and it DOES allow PvP. So, did ya'll read my damn post or what?
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:28:00 - [25] Originally by: PeeWee Pee Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO lol, whatever player decided to take that task on would never make a profit. I've only had a few contracts expire of course I've never really PvP'd with this char either. If you made insurance run by players it would cost you 20ml to insure a 22ml Ferox. Even if you built up a reputation of not loosing ships, there would be a strong hesitance after you lost even one for the player running the insurance to re-offer insurance. Too much worrying, no one would take it on as a profession. easy dude like you sayz players can look into insurance buyer's vehicle records and see how many ships he lost and decide to insure or not like in RL. with no insurance player cannot fly in empire or risk get fined by concord. player who lose ships a lotz will be asked a higher price insurance. problem solved. Do you know the margin that the NPC insurance companies now operate at? It'd be like an RL company insuring some greasy dudes Ferrari for $200 before he drove it into a destruction derby and them KNOWING that he was going to a DD.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:32:00 - [26] Real-life comparisons to a virtual game world are a bit sketchy. OMG! That person murdered someone! How can we tolerate it! We should ban everyone who kills someone! OMG!
loony zoon	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:33:00 - [27] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Idea: People pay for insurance in Eve based on their prior insurance history. Numerous high-sec kills will in turn raise your premium for the next ship your choose to insure. Shoot too many people? You might not be able to acquire insurance at all. This would only apply for kills made in (.5) and above. (.4) and below would not apply to insurance because the insurance company agents are panzies and won't go out there to inspect the wreckage anyways. In other words, they just take your word for it and pay the full amount. However, trends can be spotted and too many losses in lowsec may cause your insurance to rise. Have good insurance history? You might pay less on your next ship payment. Careless? Going AFK in a lvl III? You might want to pay more attention next time, because your insurance is on the rise. The numbers? I don't know, let CCP figure that out or just pay me to do it. I had been too stunned by the database implications of your idea Nice ideas, but a bit unrealistic. very few people would have a 'no-claims' bonus in eve. I also have to get selfish and think of the approx 3bill i have been paid out in BS insurance in eve
Antodias Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:35:00 - [28] No, no, please no. I already have to put up with Real life insurance, don't make EVE's insurance system complicated aswell. Additionally, it stops people taking more risks. Which is bad.
HostageTaker Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Avon Remove insurance completely. Can't get fairer than that. This man knows what he's talking about! I fully agree with this statement. I can't recall the last time I insured a ship... >>> EvE Online Wallpapers <<<
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.08.02 21:45:00 - [30] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Real-life comparisons to a virtual game world are a bit sketchy. OMG! That person murdered someone! How can we tolerate it! We should ban everyone who kills someone! OMG! However, some are very valid. You can't just say "well you can't relate a game to RL" sure you can. When we're talking about a business, such as an insurance company and how they make their money why can't we reference RL. Its essentially the same system. bottom line, player run insurance would not work. Who's going to manage 200,000 files for a loss of isk? Well then, yours isn't valid. It's outright poor. NPC:s run the insurance-company, the ISK is virtual, and since this is a game, the goal is not to make it as similar to reality as possible, but to make it fun in the long run (or you might as well not play it, and just stick with real life). To summarize: More options for a player on balanced terms = good. Less options due to "too realistic" features eliminating freedom = bad. Just tank your haulers better, and the battleship-ganks in hi-sec will prove to be quite ineffective.



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