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On Matari formal address

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Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.08.04 10:40:00 - [1] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 04/08/2006 10:42:09 This is a very light topic compared to the events in space around us, but bear with me, it's something that has been bothering me for two years now... Where I come from, it is not usual to address anyone but family/clan, most honored people of one's own tribe, and close personal friends as "brother" or "sister". Other people are addressed as "Mr." or "Ms." So-and-so, by clan or family name, or by given/nick name in informal situations between friends. It was very odd to me and still jars a bit when in space pilots of different tribes call each other brothers and sisters upon first meeting, which to my ears often sounds arrogant, and sometimes even people of other races adopt the custom, something that would at home be perceived as an insult. I do not of course, talking to people outside of my own home area, and moving in multitribal and multiracial circles, take my home customs as the norm, but instead try to take the addresses as they are intended and adopt to the "local" custom. But I am still curious - how does it look like to others, is this wide-spread use of the formal "brother" or "sister" a new pilot custom, or is something that is usual somewhere else on Matar, or the colonies, and has become the norm of space too? Peace in a pod - Liberty Network Gradient is not hiring
Corin Raven Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.04 11:31:00 - [2] The term Brother and Sister came about more or less out of the fires of battle. Seperated by tribes we became one unified family for a common cause, the fight for freedom. In short we became brothers and sisters in arms. Family, Clan and Tribe are important constructs of our people, ancestory and blood shared on the battlefield now ties us closer together, since then the address has stuck, though today it saddens me that more or less the original meaning is now somewhat lost on today's lethargic Republic. ------------------------------- Proud Captain of the CRS Loki-II (Rupture Class)
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.04 11:43:00 - [3] There are a few different reasons for this behaviour. Firstly there are many Matari who would like to see all the tribes united under one banner. I myself am one of these. We would still be many distinct tribes but one people, strong in both our diversity and our solidarity. A powerful combination but there is much to do before that day can dawn with so many of our people yet to taste freedom. Those of us with this mindset often refer to each other as Brother to put emphasis on the bond between us as Matari rather than the social and political bonds that would sometimes set us at odds. Secondly there is a fraternity between those who fight side by side in a common cause. Brothers in arms if you will. Put your clone on the line each day with the same men and women and there will grow a bond as strong as family. He who will fight and die by my side shall be my Brother. This is not limited to Matari, there are even Amarrians who fight openly against slavery who I call Brother. I must admit I never thought I'd see the day but when the course is true who is to tell the ship how she flies. In fact the term Brothers in Arms can be extended to a respected enemy. Normally amongst the tribe militias for our people. Even though you must kill each other you only do it at the behest of your leaders, therefore you are both in the same boat and Brothers in Arms, albeit on opposing sides. Of course this can never apply to an outlaw like me, I fight the slavers through choice. I respect their fighting abilities the same way one respects the weather but that is as far as it goes. As for offworlders using the term, some are loyal to the Ushra'Khan. Some support us in non-military ways. There are some misguided diplomats and such who mistake it for a term of address and there are of course the legions of token rebels who pay lip service in this way. They listen to Brutor beats and wear t-shirts with freedom fighter logos on it but few of them will ever see the business end of a high calibre rifle. Their hearts are in the right place, I can't ask more than that of anyone. The life I have chosen is not the easiest but in many ways it is deeply rewarding when you can give freedom to thousands of your people in one fell swoop. It should be noted also that many of the clans along the Mioar-strait used to refer to each other and strangers as Brother or Sister. It is a friendly and endearing term. A custom I think our tribe could use more of in the north. Do not take it as an insult Diplomat Rhiannon, it is not meant as one. I like to think that if someone is being insulted by a Matari they are in no doubt of that fact. >> RECRUITING <<
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.08.04 11:44:00 - [4] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 04/08/2006 11:44:55 Quote: though today it saddens me that more or less the original meaning is now somewhat lost on today's lethargic Republic. As ever, to U'K every topic is about bashing the Republic? This is how you still continue to honor your "Unity"? Peace in a pod - Liberty Network Gradient is not hiring
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.04 11:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 04/08/2006 11:48:44 Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 04/08/2006 11:48:07 Quote: though today it saddens me that more or less the original meaning is now somewhat lost on today's lethargic Republic. As ever, to U'K every topic is about bashing the Republic? This is how you still continue to honor your "Unity" tag? Quote: Do not take it as an insult Diplomat Rhiannon, it is not meant as one. I like to think that if someone is being insulted by a Matari they are in no doubt of that fact. As I said, Pilot Telemicus Thrace, I don't. I should hope I am professional enough to understand customs vary. What matters is the true meaning behind the words. When a Sebiestor member of U'K calls me a sister while insulting my nation, it is definitely more of an insult than when a Caldari flying by my side does. I was just curious as to from where this custom has came to among pilots. Ahhh, fiery as ever Sister. Not all critisism is an insult either. Anyway, there are legions of my Brothers and Sisters in chains and I cannot rest until they are free. I have been cleared to undock and the war beckons. For the record it is Commander Thrace, although even the lads in the engine room call me Tel. >> RECRUITING <<
Corin Raven Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.04 12:00:00 - [6] Edited by: Corin Raven on 04/08/2006 12:02:00 Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon As ever, to U'K every topic is about bashing the Republic? This is how you still continue to honor your "Unity" tag? The truth is paramount. And more to the point it hurts. How can the Republic dare to use the term Brother and Sister when so many of their so called "brothers and sister" are still in the bonds of slavery? I do not bash the Republic, I attack it's basic batrayal of all it once stood for. The Matari family as a whole. ------------------------------- Proud Captain of the CRS Loki-II (Rupture Class)
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.08.04 12:22:00 - [7] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 04/08/2006 12:22:29 I am not going to answer to the old bickering here; it has been said and proven enough times already the U'K "Unity" and "people as a whole" does not extend to those of us who believe in the Republic. My apologies, Commander Thrace, I am really not up to date about your current position and doings. To get back on track, any other comments on the original question? Peace in a pod - Liberty Network Gradient is not hiring
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.04 12:52:00 - [8] Edited by: Ethidium Bromide on 04/08/2006 12:53:29 oh it warms my heart to see that finally you have risen from the mudslinging and start to use your little brains for some philosphy exercise! i have pity on you little ones so let me help you with some wise words to think about! Ethidium Bromide puts on his glasses, crosses his legs sitting in an easychair in front of an open fire place and uses his mildest and sweetest voice talking as if to children 'brothers in arms' i like that a lot nevertheless you should see the light and become brothers and sisters in faith! one day when i have crushed those little rebellious tendencies in you and MY brothers and sisters have helped me in enlightening you all and the rest of the dressed animals out there we will all be HIS children and therefore take our hands and walk singing and joyous among HIS stars till the end of days and our all ascension to HIS side! repent sooner than later and sooner than later you can see the light as i do and become my brothers and sisters in faith! Ethidium Bromide folds his hands, nods benevolent and smiles screen fades to black _________________________________ just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean i'm not following!
AsheRaven Minmatar Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.04 12:52:00 - [9] I once used to use the term brother lightly. Then I saw the blood, and I saw that only a few were worthyu of the title brother. The Blood showed me the way to true family, true bonds that neither Minmitar or family could reveal. ---------------------------------
AsheRaven Minmatar Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.04 13:07:00 - [10] The blood and flesh of you and your "brothers and sisters" will make a fine addition to my "Redemption", my old enemy. Sorry for the interuption, please continue ---------------------------------
Rana Ash Minmatar Aeon Trinity	Posted - 2006.08.04 16:04:00 - [11] A long time ago i stopped reffering to other matari as brothers and sisters. I felt that it was loosing it's meaning, i use peoples names which is better i feel. There are few people i would call brother or sister, but many more i call Friend. ¦on Trinity is recruting, inquire within for details lyret dedreen
Takitoo Ebon Phoenix	Posted - 2006.08.04 17:44:00 - [12] Coming from a largely military background myself, I prefer to be called Captain, Ms., Sir, or Pilot. The Gallente "Ma'am" irks me as well. Calling an officer "Ma'am" gets my students a few laps around the courtyard, with combat packs on. "Sister" implies ties that don't exist and in my opinion is comparable to calling a stranger "friend". In short, it's a pretentious lie. I value honestly over politeness. Of course all that changes in an informal environment. ___________________________
Kaleigh Doyle Rho Dynamics	Posted - 2006.08.04 17:51:00 - [13] While I've not had any formal education on the hierarchy of Matari customs, I've had the opportunity to work and live alongside enough to understand the usage of brother or sister as an acknowledgement of racial unity. I think in many ways the Matari people are searching for identity, reacquainting themselves with their heritage free from the oppression of the Empire, and thus far found a common bond with those of their own race. Perhaps the meaning behind the phrase is losing its value as the term is increasingly abused by politicians and pundits who wish to sap this good will for their own personal gain. It's unfortunate because the Republic, now more than ever in lieu of recent events, needs such unifying phrases if they wish to retain a coherent governing body.
Mr Vapor Minmatar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.08.05 02:08:00 - [14] Edited by: Mr Vapor on 05/08/2006 02:08:36 The use of familiar bond words such as "brother" or "sister" can immediately be used to your tactical advantage. The reaction from the adressee can determine whether they are potentially hostile or they should be welcomed with guarded, but open, arms. They are psychological "trigger" words that can be used to your advantage. On a more common note, for all the Matari that I've met, it's usually a way to establish a bond of friendship or an endearing term for a "blood brother or sister." As a pod pilot organization, it is up to the command chain to establish whether they want a formal address system or a more open, friendly one. Typically, I've found that most Minmatar led corporations hold a disdain for titles that put power over others to be used in common conversation. We have Admirals in SRS but rarely to we refer to them as Admiral. It's just a little too much like "master." I'm sure you can see where that might cause a bit of distrust within a corporation of former slaves or people for whom slavery is a large part of their heritage.
Hakera Minmatar Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:48:00 - [15] It is a generic term meaning 'of same blood' detailing a bond shared. It is not specific to Matari but seen applied across the galaxy where any relationship is detailed by a special bond. Matari are named by their lineage and position. But we adopt easier names for outsiders and as outside influence has grown through the last millenia most are known only by their 'simple names'. Within your clan it is acceptable to call the equals and lower caste as brother and sister unless your reference is to Matari as a whole. I would never be insulted unless it be a Nefanter who calls me so. A brother who turns his back on another is no longer a brother.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.05 15:28:00 - [16] Edited by: Archbishop on 05/08/2006 15:30:28 We are all children of God so in that respect we could all be "brothers". Still there are different levels of children. The good children who worship, respect, know their place. And the bad children who vandalize, commit crimes, commit blasphemy and all sorts of other actions. Just as in a strong family structure the good wise children should try to help the weak bad children. This is what the Amarr do for the Minmatar. While they deny it its clear they need us to Enlighten them for their own good. Bad children generally reject attempts to help them so is it with the Minmatar. Rest assured though knowing your place is just as important and I would never dream of calling one of these heathens "brother". After all they are the product of sin, inbreeding and all other manner of crime. God has spoken on this already and while we all come from "Earth" of ancient times the course we follow now is clear. "Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good. Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land. The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood. But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God. Thus they were saved and became God's chosen one." ## The Scriptures. Book II. We are the chosen children of God. We must save the Minmatar from their own incompetence and show them the true plan for them. Service and Enlightenment is their only hope as they have wasted their lives and their chance already. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Dak Hakin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.08.05 16:44:00 - [17] Originally by: Archbishop Edited by: Archbishop on 05/08/2006 15:30:28 We are all children of God so in that respect we could all be "brothers". Still there are different levels of children. The good children who worship, respect, know their place. And the bad children who vandalize, commit crimes, commit blasphemy and all sorts of other actions. Just as in a strong family structure the good wise children should try to help the weak bad children. This is what the Amarr do for the Minmatar. While they deny it its clear they need us to Enlighten them for their own good. Bad children generally reject attempts to help them so is it with the Minmatar. Rest assured though knowing your place is just as important and I would never dream of calling one of these heathens "brother". After all they are the product of sin, inbreeding and all other manner of crime. God has spoken on this already and while we all come from "Earth" of ancient times the course we follow now is clear. "Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good. Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land. The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood. But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God. Thus they were saved and became God's chosen one." ## The Scriptures. Book II. We are the chosen children of God. We must save the Minmatar from their own incompetence and show them the true plan for them. Service and Enlightenment is their only hope as they have wasted their lives and their chance already. Archbishop I think perhaps the Minmatar are the saviors of the Amarr. We are the ones that are trying to "educate" the Amarr to give up their sinful ways. Slavery, sodomy, vanity, wrath, pride... And the Amarr say the Minmatar need to be educated? _______________________________________________ I am the devil, and I'm here to do the devils work.
Vera Nosfyu Minmatar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.08.06 05:58:00 - [18] Miss Rhiannon (And speaking of address, I'll have to start remembering to say 'Mrs.' soon enough), I think the differences between the use of "brother" and "sister", like much else, can be traced back to our heritage. For someone such as yourself who has had the blessing of a rich cultural history, an intimate family, even a clan to call your own, you have a very clear definition of who 'counts' as a brother or sister. However, try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Take me, for example. I never met my parents and there is no clan Nosfyu. As far as I know I am the first to ever bear the name; I gave it to myself in the tedious hours of shuttle flight to free space after killing the one who called himself my master. If I have no children I will also be the last to have this name. Stormriders is the closest thing I have ever had to a true family. Can you understand how someone in a situation like mine, and I'm sure I'm not alone, calling fellow freedom fighters brother and sister is a way to make up for that true family which we have been deprived of. I do not mean to scold you, nor do I wish for your pity. But please do not take offense at these terms as we do not all have the good fortune of a proper clan and upbringing. ----------------------------------------------------------- "Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:10:00 - [19] Vera, it was not my intention to condemn this pilot practice. I was just interested in its origin. Yes, I am indeed blessed in my clan and family. Peace in a pod - Liberty Network Gradient is not hiring

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