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Abyss Jack Serial Chill3rz	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:27:00 - [1] i'll keep it simple dmg output = crap (10% less than cerberus) dmg on frigs = worthless to train CS on 5 for it tbh, so crap too pvp factor = crap (it should crush cruisers, not frigs) npc factor = crap (except tank ofc, but missiles to slow, defenders kill most of the missiles) ye i know the tank is realy good, but i wish it would have same stats as cerberus instead request more <3 for this caldari ship
Flaming sambuka IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:29:00 - [2] Command ships arnt meant to do uber damage (even though most do) the nighthawk is fine, it tanks like a mofo and gives surport, exactly what it should be doing. stop whining.
Abyss Jack Serial Chill3rz	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:31:00 - [3] so astarte is meant to do support jobs? and absolution? sleipnir too right?
HappyKitten Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:32:00 - [4] Tux has said they will most likely lose their TNP bonus. My idea of what the nhawk bonuses should be: BC: 5% kin damage, 5% shield resist per level. CS: 5% ROF, 10% velocity per level. I am unlikely to get that, but this doesnt' seem to much to ask: BC: 5% kin damage, 5% shield resist per level. CS: 5% ROF, 10% GMP per level.
Flaming sambuka IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Abyss Jack so astarte is meant to do support jobs? and absolution? sleipnir too right? yes
HappyKitten Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:33:00 - [6] As for the other command ships, either nerf them, or boost the nhawk. You can't justify an inbalance between the races as "it's doing what it's role is, just as well as the others. It's just the others WTFPWN as well, but that's OK, because that isn't their role"
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:43:00 - [7] Edited by: welsh wizard on 05/08/2006 11:44:16 Originally by: Flaming sambuka Command ships arnt meant to do uber damage (even though most do) the nighthawk is fine, it tanks like a mofo and gives surport, exactly what it should be doing. stop whining. Go away Gallente *****, we all know why you're here. :P Seriously though the Nighthawk is ridiculously poor compared to the others. If they're not gonna change it, it's base price should be reduced drastically! That might not work of course, coz its the bloody people buying them that dictate the price. :( edit: Hopefully these new assault missiles will improve its ability somewhat.
HellsRazor Caldari FACTA NON VERBA Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.05 11:47:00 - [8] another NH threat ;p to much to read.... 6 x t2 heavy launchers using fury ammo + 3 ballistic control t2 level 4 heavy missile spec.- level 5 heavy missiles- level 5 rapid fire - level 5 warhead for me is like 391.00 max kinitic damage against 0 resist at 6.46 rof per missile using no implants and now add the 5 t2 light drone damage that Cerberus can't use. i like the Nighthawk :) but sure FIX it CCP :)
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.08.05 12:19:00 - [9] Originally by: HellsRazor another NH threat ;p to much to read.... 6 x t2 heavy launchers using fury ammo + 3 ballistic control t2 level 4 heavy missile spec.- level 5 heavy missiles- level 5 rapid fire - level 5 warhead for me is like 391.00 max kinitic damage against 0 resist at 6.46 rof per missile using no implants and now add the 5 t2 light drone damage that Cerberus can't use. i like the Nighthawk :) but sure FIX it CCP :) So what you are saying is that you max out at 360 dps without drones with close to maxed out skills and uber damage ammo. Now please do the same calculations with the other command ships, and compare the dps..
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.05 12:23:00 - [10] Don't mix up field and fleet command ships. Only the latter gets a bonus to command modules - that's a support ship - the field variant is meant to be a heavy damage dealer.
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.05 12:58:00 - [11] What do the boni 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level do excactly? Reduce the damage reduction from speed and small sig radius? Mind control and tin hats
HappyKitten Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Laboratus What do the boni 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level do excactly? Reduce the damage reduction from speed and small sig radius? yup
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:04:00 - [13] Originally by: HappyKitten Originally by: Laboratus What do the boni 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level do excactly? Reduce the damage reduction from speed and small sig radius? yup So it can use the high damage Fury missiles effectively? Against cruiser+ sized targets? And with the persicion heavies it shoots everything interceptor up? Mind control and tin hats
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Laboratus And this makes it a bad ship because? Because? Because you dont know what your talking about I am going to answer. Anyone with good missiles skills already can use furies to good effect against other cruisers. What these bonuses do is help against frigs. A big slow and clumsy battlecruiser doesnt need any frig bonuses. Only a stupid frig pilot will get in range. Wherever you went - here you are.
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Laboratus And this makes it a bad ship because? Because? Because you dont know what your talking about I am going to answer. Anyone with good missiles skills already can use furies to good effect against other cruisers. What these bonuses do is help against frigs. A big slow and clumsy battlecruiser doesnt need any frig bonuses. Only a stupid frig pilot will get in range. See, this is why I asked? See? Anyways. Whats the dps on that baby with furies? Mind control and tin hats
TheUltimateAlt	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:54:00 - [16] You can have a boost to your nighthawk when the raven will be nerfed
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:58:00 - [17] Originally by: TheUltimateAlt You can have a boost to your nighthawk when the raven will be nerfed psssh, alts aren't cool any more
babylonstew Caldari Caldari Scouting and Intel Group	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:59:00 - [18] Originally by: HellsRazor another NH threat ;p to much to read.... 6 x t2 heavy launchers using fury ammo + 3 ballistic control t2 level 4 heavy missile spec.- level 5 heavy missiles- level 5 rapid fire - level 5 warhead for me is like 391.00 max kinitic damage against 0 resist at 6.46 rof per missile using no implants and now add the 5 t2 light drone damage that Cerberus can't use. i like the Nighthawk :) but sure FIX it CCP :) shame my cerburus, you know, the next ship DOWN the line can do that damage with a betterrof on LEss skills. Forum advice Linkage
Hakera Minmatar Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:08:00 - [19] Edited by: Hakera on 05/08/2006 14:08:26 wait for the new assault missiles then comment
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Hakera wait for the new assault missiles then comment It isn't even just about pure figures. It is about being the only one with worse DPS than it's HAC counterpart. All the others have significantly (40-50%) more DPS than it's HAC counterpart. Nighthawk has about 10% less. That's screwed. Normal HippoKing service resumed; world no longer ending.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:16:00 - [21] I think the Nighthawk can tank better than everyone else? Except maybe the Vulture.. =) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:20:00 - [22] Originally by: Jim McGregor I think the Nighthawk can tank better than everyone else? Except maybe the Vulture.. =) Not if it wants to scramble as well. It did, of course, tank amazingly in the Tournament (better than the eagle in many cases) because it had no requirement to scramble, and it has a huge cargo hold for booster 800s. Normal HippoKing service resumed; world no longer ending.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:26:00 - [23] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Jim McGregor I think the Nighthawk can tank better than everyone else? Except maybe the Vulture.. =) Not if it wants to scramble as well. It did, of course, tank amazingly in the Tournament (better than the eagle in many cases) because it had no requirement to scramble, and it has a huge cargo hold for booster 800s. Well, I dont think command ships are meant for solo pvp. Even though im sure it would be fun to swing a nighthawk around. =) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:28:00 - [24] Edited by: HippoKing on 05/08/2006 14:28:35 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Jim McGregor I think the Nighthawk can tank better than everyone else? Except maybe the Vulture.. =) Not if it wants to scramble as well. It did, of course, tank amazingly in the Tournament (better than the eagle in many cases) because it had no requirement to scramble, and it has a huge cargo hold for booster 800s. Well, I dont think command ships are meant for solo pvp. Even though im sure it would be fun to swing a nighthawk around. =) I'll agree they aren't designed for solo PvP. I just want some fricking DPS edit: and I meant to say "better than the vulture in many cases" Normal HippoKing service resumed; world no longer ending.
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Jim McGregor I think the Nighthawk can tank better than everyone else? Except maybe the Vulture.. =) Not if it wants to scramble as well. It did, of course, tank amazingly in the Tournament (better than the eagle in many cases) because it had no requirement to scramble, and it has a huge cargo hold for booster 800s. Well, I dont think command ships are meant for solo pvp. Even though im sure it would be fun to swing a nighthawk around. =) Well actually the other command ships tanks just as well or close to the nighthawk, they just also have atleast double the dps.
Rocc0	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:30:00 - [26] Edited by: Rocc0 on 05/08/2006 14:30:20
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:30:00 - [27] Originally by: HippoKing Edited by: HippoKing on 05/08/2006 14:28:35 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Jim McGregor I think the Nighthawk can tank better than everyone else? Except maybe the Vulture.. =) Not if it wants to scramble as well. It did, of course, tank amazingly in the Tournament (better than the eagle in many cases) because it had no requirement to scramble, and it has a huge cargo hold for booster 800s. Well, I dont think command ships are meant for solo pvp. Even though im sure it would be fun to swing a nighthawk around. =) I'll agree they aren't designed for solo PvP. I just want some fricking DPS edit: and I meant to say "better than the vulture in many cases" Im not sure which race has the one with dps... gallente I suppose. As usual. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Jim McGregor Im not sure which race has the one with dps... gallente I suppose. As usual. When I last ran figures on them, I came out with something like this: Sleipnir: around 910 DPS Absolution: around 920 DPS Astarte: around 1150 DPS Nighthawk: around 400 DPS Those might not be totally accurate, they are just from memory, and they were calculations using quickfit for speed. I'll run them properly at some point again. Normal HippoKing service resumed; world no longer ending.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:33:00 - [29] I wish there was some sort of tanking calculations too. Naughtyboy were working on it... but he had problems with making the GUI friendly. The math was easy... =) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.05 16:27:00 - [30] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Jim McGregor Im not sure which race has the one with dps... gallente I suppose. As usual. When I last ran figures on them, I came out with something like this: Sleipnir: around 910 DPS Absolution: around 920 DPS Astarte: around 1150 DPS Nighthawk: around 400 DPS Those might not be totally accurate, they are just from memory, and they were calculations using quickfit for speed. I'll run them properly at some point again. The nighthawk cant tank much better than the other command ships, and actually with the proper gear the sleipnir tanks better. And 400dps is like on no resists with a couple of Estamel BCU's. Its freaking pathetic. But there is a 20 page thread about this here. I really hope they plan on changing the Target Navigation Prediction AND the guided missile precision bonus. TBH this ship could use a kestrelesqe type damage bonus and a RoF bonus and it would be at proper damage level. And yes, it would still be below all the others, like it should be because theyre missiles, but it wouldn't be gimped to crap.

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