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kirjava Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.05 13:14:00 - [1] Last night i was doing a few sums on my calculator trying to figure out how well the Rokh would perform against the Hulk. Below are my calculations. Hulk: 3(540(1.25^2)(1.15^2)1.1) =3682m3 per cycle Rokh 8(60(1.25^3)(1.1))3 =3093m3 per cycle For the Rokh i used the value of 5 low slots (as the Raven has) for mining upgrades. This gives it the edge over the Apocalypse because the mid-slots are used for tanking on Caldari Ships. (Also the *3 at the end of the Rokhs calculation is because of the 3 miniute cycle strip miners have). I am hoping that such a (relatively) cheap ship that is also insurable will beat down the Hulks price somewhat when Kali comes out. I know that there is a 19% difference in yield, but given that 350M seeparates the gap, Hulk builders may see the market changing.
Yoshimako	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:00:00 - [2] By my calculations the hulk with modulated strip miner 2's and no mining upgrades will yield: 4502.493 per cycle.
kirjava Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:04:00 - [3] Did you use any of the implants though? Also I didnt use the crystal based lasers (deep core miner 2/ modulated strip miner 2) for either of my calculations. Could i get a copy of your sum please?
Yoshimako	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:06:00 - [4] Originally by: kirjava Did you use any of the implants though? Also I didnt use the crystal based lasers (deep core miner 2/ modulated strip miner 2) for either of my calculations. Could i get a copy of your sum please? As i said i used modulated strip 2's (requiring a crystal) no implants. Thats why its higher. Imho you dont spend all that isk on an exhumer and not run the best equipment.
kirjava Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.05 14:09:00 - [5] I tried my Hulk out in that setup a while back. When my computer got disconnected from the server, the Modulated strip miners had eaten up all of my cap, leaving none for the Gitsi sheild booster. Needless to say it was lonely in my egg looking at a can containing a few modules. I now use plain old Strip Miners. A bit less efficient but safer for crashes.
Shiner BockBeer Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt	Posted - 2006.08.05 18:39:00 - [6] Barges/exhumers recover cap very quickly, so you shouldn't ever have a problem maintaining cap as long as you stagger the miners. I don't recall ever running totally out. Also, if you're in a belt where the rats could conceivably kill you if your game crashes. keep combat drone flying around to draw them off.
Nobues Supero Omnia	Posted - 2006.08.05 20:15:00 - [7] Please dont try to do math its really isnt your storng point there m8. A battleship no matter what class it is, will not add up to a large barge no matter no bad your math is. I'm sorry, EVEN the "Rokh" will mine less than a large barge. and to even see it vs a hulk just made my day. sorry m8 You really need to do your math again. Thanks.l
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.06 02:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Nobues Please dont try to do math its really isnt your storng point there m8. A battleship no matter what class it is, will not add up to a large barge no matter no bad your math is. I'm sorry, EVEN the "Rokh" will mine less than a large barge. and to even see it vs a hulk just made my day. sorry m8 You really need to do your math again. Thanks.l It really depends on if you look at the big picture or not. Rokh mining in lowsec, after insurance a loss to pirates might = 40m lost Hulk mining in lowsec, after insurance a loss to pirates might = 400m lost Rokh able to afk tank 0.0 bs rats whilst mining in alliance space Hulk needing a dedicated tank for the same thing. If it had been 2 rokh's mining rather than 1 hulk + 1 defence, the rokh comes out the winner by a mile. Rokh also means that if you are attacked by pirates, your time of survival would likely be much better. Sure, you will only have a few drones as defence, but vs 1 pirate you may last out for 2-3 minutes and that could be time to have reinforcements come in and save your ass, compared to the hulk against one pirate battleship, which would last appromiately 30-60 seconds, even with the above mentioned gist shield booster. So, net yield definetly isn't everything when considering mining abilities. Insured Research and Production Services
Shiner BockBeer Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt	Posted - 2006.08.06 04:32:00 - [9] Edited by: Shiner BockBeer on 06/08/2006 04:33:50 Originally by: Ricdic So, net yield definetly isn't everything when considering mining abilities. But the original post only put it in terms of net yield. When it comes down to it though, the calculations above appear favorable towards the Rokh, but those numbers are with Tech1 strips and no crystals on the barge. When it comes to a real mining setup, the covetor/hulk are way ahead. And really honestly, if you want a 0.0 miner that can handle itself in a fight, you want a Dominix anyway. *edit And to put it back on the original poster's point for this discussion. I doubt this is going to make any real difference in hulk prices. Reason being that people have always paid a premium to have the very best. The only thing that will drive down the price of the Hulk over time is production outstripping demand.
kirjava Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.06 08:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Nobues Please dont try to do math its really isnt your storng point there m8. A battleship no matter what class it is, will not add up to a large barge no matter no bad your math is. I'm sorry, EVEN the "Rokh" will mine less than a large barge. and to even see it vs a hulk just made my day. sorry m8 You really need to do your math again. Thanks.l It really depends on if you look at the big picture or not. Rokh mining in lowsec, after insurance a loss to pirates might = 40m lost Hulk mining in lowsec, after insurance a loss to pirates might = 400m lost Rokh able to afk tank 0.0 bs rats whilst mining in alliance space Hulk needing a dedicated tank for the same thing. If it had been 2 rokh's mining rather than 1 hulk + 1 defence, the rokh comes out the winner by a mile. Rokh also means that if you are attacked by pirates, your time of survival would likely be much better. Sure, you will only have a few drones as defence, but vs 1 pirate you may last out for 2-3 minutes and that could be time to have reinforcements come in and save your ass, compared to the hulk against one pirate battleship, which would last appromiately 30-60 seconds, even with the above mentioned gist shield booster. So, net yield definetly isn't everything when considering mining abilities. Give the man a cookie. Whilst my sums are probably off, all they are trying to do is say that there is a ship that can tank those spawns that a Hulk can, AND mine a sizeable shung of what the Hulk can. In my experience it is best to go for the cheaper ships that can pay for themselves fastest, cos sooner or later its gona get popped by pirates.

Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.08.06 15:32:00 - [11] The most important difference: Hulk: 8000m^3 (~13k with 2 local hulls) Rokh: a lot less. less interface interaction allows you to mine semi-afk with multiple accounts. But your point (dont have time to check the math) still holds true - the rokh looks like the perfect mining battleship.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.07 13:31:00 - [12] Eos is the best non barge mining ship. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
mr passie Minmatar KHM Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.07 14:10:00 - [13] Sorry, but isn't a mealstrom (with one more low slot) still a better miner? ----------------------------------------------- I'm a reversed paranoid schizophrenic. I have voices in my head I just think I don't hear them
Ricdics Dreadnought Production INC	Posted - 2006.08.07 15:50:00 - [14] Originally by: mr passie Sorry, but isn't a mealstrom (with one more low slot) still a better miner? Can you make one tank 0.0 npc's while it mines? Or do you also need a ship for defence? If answer=2 then goto=no Insured Research and Production Services Queues
Rao Esek	Posted - 2006.08.07 23:06:00 - [15] quoted from devblog "we intend the Maelstrom to be a shield tanking artillery boat" so, answer would have to be 1 = yes. Maelstrom should be able to tank and fit mining upgrades, and lasers. The issue will obviously be fitting requirements. And I'd be surprised to find that the Maelstrom doesn't have a drone bay, if its consistent with many of the Minmatar ships.
Aqnes Sondra	Posted - 2007.06.19 08:09:00 - [16] with cristalstotal minernorm spe****ytotalwith max lasers strip miner II360 366.3726.3 2178.9 strop Deap II250254.375504.3751513.125 deep core II120122.1242.11936.8 cpupowerMAX MINERS CPU strip miner II180120.6012361.8 strop Deap II180120.6012361.8 deep core II180 801 640 powergridcpubonise to yeald Hulk35375 52.5% convertor3525015% Rokh15000975 Deep corestrip miner Hulk3101.906254412.2725 convertor2496.656253595.185 Rokh2905.2 at 8 miners 4 upgrades 1 cpu II 68.25 cpu left SKILS ARE 50% MINING YEILD FROM ALL SHIPS Mining laser upgrade 30 cpu 1 power 7.5% cpu pinty
Aqnes Sondra	Posted - 2007.06.19 08:11:00 - [17] Edited by: Aqnes Sondra on 19/06/2007 08:10:35 [ with cristalstotal miner norm spe****ytotal with max lasers strip miner II360 366.3726.3 2178.9 strop Deap II250254.375504.3751513.125 deep core II120122.1242.11936.8 cpupowerMAX MINERS CPU strip miner II180120.6012361.8 strop Deap II180120.6012361.8 deep core II180 801 640 powergridcpubonise to yeald Hulk35375 52.5% convertor3525015% Rokh15000975 Deep corestrip miner Hulk3101.906254412.2725 convertor2496.656253595.185 Rokh2905.2 at 8 miners 4 upgrades 1 cpu II 68.25 cpu left SKILS ARE 50% MINING YEILD FROM ALL SHIPS Mining laser upgrade 30 cpu 1 power 7.5% cpu pinty
Rusom Rokath Amarr 1m95	Posted - 2007.06.19 11:44:00 - [18] 2006 called. It wants its Hulk prices back.
mr bighelmet EnTech Pax Familia	Posted - 2007.06.19 11:57:00 - [19] 2006 miners say screw that. If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.06.19 12:58:00 - [20] Dear Aqnes Sondra, Thread Necro = Bad. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Shar Tegral> Some pew-pew at doo-doo for free-whee!!!!


lordharold Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.06.20 17:01:00 - [21] click Please do not necro old threads -Lord Harold forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website



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