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Anasur	Posted - 2006.08.06 09:27:00 - [1] Please give it a missile rate of fire bonus instead of kinetic damage. We have enough ships with kinetic damage, take a note from the raven, lol. Besides, RoF at 5% reduction per level works out to 33% damage at lvl 5. Considering other races current BCs have a 25% boost and armor tanking, if the new BC for Caldari only gets that same 25% boost and no tanking boost(as you implied) then it would still be an inferior boat. This boost could be carried over to the Nighthawk too, which could then get its 25% kinetic damage boost on top of that, as the double damage bonus all those command ships get. Oh, and a thought. Since these ships won't have the same extra tanking as do the current BS, you suggested that they would be easy prey for battleships. Might I suggest simply giving them a lower sig radius compared to the current BCs? It wouldn't affect their damage against cruiser and smaller, but would give them a bit more surviveability against the battleships. Thanks
Merv Tring GeoTech	Posted - 2006.08.06 09:35:00 - [2] So, wait... you're worried that the missilespamming pwnmobile of DOOM will do too little damage? Hate to break it to you, but this ship will probably be able to utterly destroy anything BC sized and down.
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.06 09:36:00 - [3] Edited by: HippoKing on 06/08/2006 09:36:50 Originally by: Merv Tring So, wait... you're worried that the missilespamming pwnmobile of DOOM will do too little damage? Hate to break it to you, but this ship will probably be able to utterly destroy anything BC sized and down. Hate you break it to you, but... no? edit: take a look at the DPS of the ferox or nighthawk compared to their counterparts, if you don't believe me Normal HippoKing service resumed; world no longer ending.
Eximius Josari Shadow Reavers	Posted - 2006.08.06 09:51:00 - [4] Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.06 09:54:00 - [5] Don't worry. Tuxford's said they are looking like they'll be more ganky than tanky, and that'd mean it'll either get a) -5% rate of fire and +10% missile velocity or b) +10% kinetic missile damage and +5% EM, TH, and EXP missile damage. Most likely it'll not reverse-inherit from the Nighthawk, inspite of being extremely similar. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.06 09:58:00 - [6] Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Normal HippoKing service resumed; world no longer ending.
Eximius Josari Shadow Reavers	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:07:00 - [7] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Comparing the caracal DPS to the rupture or thorax comes up pretty unfavourable too. Not certain on the amarr ones. Normal HippoKing service resumed; world no longer ending.
Eximius Josari Shadow Reavers	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:14:00 - [9] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Comparing the caracal DPS to the rupture or thorax comes up pretty unfavourable too. Not certain on the amarr ones. True, but Missile Monkey Ships are not DPS ships...they are multi role combat tactical damage dealers that have an easier time figuring out how much they can do in any given situation, and still have a nice alpha. That alone should be enough of an advantage to warrant not having the best DPS. Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
Ross Ice Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:18:00 - [10] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Comparing the caracal DPS to the rupture or thorax comes up pretty unfavourable too. Not certain on the amarr ones. LOL! Thorax DPS can be much higher than a caracal but you have to consider it only does that dmg within a very limited range, while missiles have numerous advantages over turrets which cover the lack of not being the DPS king.
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Comparing the caracal DPS to the rupture or thorax comes up pretty unfavourable too. Not certain on the amarr ones. True, but Missile Monkey Ships are not DPS ships...they are multi role combat tactical damage dealers that have an easier time figuring out how much they can do in any given situation, and still have a nice alpha. That alone should be enough of an advantage to warrant not having the best DPS. Yeah, I know. The whole tree started because someone was trying to imply that missile ships have excellent DPS. I was pointing out his fallacy. Normal HippoKing service resumed; world no longer ending.
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:33:00 - [12] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Comparing the caracal DPS to the rupture or thorax comes up pretty unfavourable too. Not certain on the amarr ones. A rupture or thorax with short range guns? Vs. a caracal with heavy missiles(long range weapon)? Of course caracal will do less damage, compare it with 720's or 250mm railgun not short range weapons. - "I wish CONCORD would scream "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" when they turn up to blob you. " -_ Twilight Moon
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Reatu Krentor Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Comparing the caracal DPS to the rupture or thorax comes up pretty unfavourable too. Not certain on the amarr ones. A rupture or thorax with short range guns? Vs. a caracal with heavy missiles(long range weapon)? Of course caracal will do less damage, compare it with 720's or 250mm railgun not short range weapons. The missile boats do less damage than the long range turrets, too. But this is mostly because one tend to use high damage ammo for the turrets, never taking into account that missiles are decidedly longer ranged than that. I'm afraid that this range advantage will not be shown until something is done about turret ranges, especially with Spike and similar ammo loaded. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Gorgons Caldari Phantom Squad	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Reatu Krentor Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Comparing the caracal DPS to the rupture or thorax comes up pretty unfavourable too. Not certain on the amarr ones. A rupture or thorax with short range guns? Vs. a caracal with heavy missiles(long range weapon)? Of course caracal will do less damage, compare it with 720's or 250mm railgun not short range weapons. True, and this is why we need the close range high damage assault missiles. Well actually we've been missing those for the last 3 years, but better late than never i guess ---------------------------------- It says Snippy. E-mail us with any questions. -ReverendM OMG! what does it say...
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:44:00 - [15] Dont worry... soon there will be assault missiles and Caldari will pwn short range as well. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:47:00 - [16] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Reatu Krentor Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Comparing the caracal DPS to the rupture or thorax comes up pretty unfavourable too. Not certain on the amarr ones. A rupture or thorax with short range guns? Vs. a caracal with heavy missiles(long range weapon)? Of course caracal will do less damage, compare it with 720's or 250mm railgun not short range weapons. The missile boats do less damage than the long range turrets, too. But this is mostly because one tend to use high damage ammo for the turrets, never taking into account that missiles are decidedly longer ranged than that. I'm afraid that this range advantage will not be shown until something is done about turret ranges, especially with Spike and similar ammo loaded. and, of course, missile ships cannot change their range in any way, while turret users can fit tracking mods, or change ammo. Normal HippoKing service resumed; world no longer ending.
operated Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:57:00 - [17] caracal does more damage than the ferox Ever faced a blasterferox ? I assure you it does way more damage then caracal .
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2006.08.06 10:57:00 - [18] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Reatu Krentor Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Eximius Josari Maybe the Caracal is a better comparo than the Ferox, which has too many launchers as it is. caracal does more damage than the ferox Exactly, the Ferox is not a missile boat, regardless of how people use it. It has 3 too many launchers. Comparing the caracal DPS to the rupture or thorax comes up pretty unfavourable too. Not certain on the amarr ones. A rupture or thorax with short range guns? Vs. a caracal with heavy missiles(long range weapon)? Of course caracal will do less damage, compare it with 720's or 250mm railgun not short range weapons. The missile boats do less damage than the long range turrets, too. But this is mostly because one tend to use high damage ammo for the turrets, never taking into account that missiles are decidedly longer ranged than that. I'm afraid that this range advantage will not be shown until something is done about turret ranges, especially with Spike and similar ammo loaded. and, of course, missile ships cannot change their range in any way, while turret users can fit tracking mods, or change ammo. Which is needed imo, missile users need those too imo, I call it 'Guidance Computer'(spiffy, eh?), of course it would get a counter in the 'Guidance Disruptor'(which would be amarr ew) so we can get rid of the abomination that are defenders. For the rest if a turret ship would want to match the range of caracal currently it will have to use its lowest damage ammo and as you said caracal will do more damage in that case... (T2 ammo I don't count, it exists outside the serene area of balance). Apologies for lashing out like that but i'm extremely allergic to people claiming inferior dps comparing a ship that can hit past 50km with relative ease with ships that have trouble hitting even past 10-15km . Wait for the assault missiles or compare with turret ships that can match that range. - "I wish CONCORD would scream "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" when they turn up to blob you. " -_ Twilight Moon
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.06 11:08:00 - [19] Begun, the quote wars have. At the OP... where exactly did you get this info from on the bonuses? ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3
Clytamnestra Jazz Associates R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.06 11:48:00 - [20] Just wanted to add a little something to the mix. A blaster-equipped thorax controlling a fight versus a missile ship will do more dps. But with a missile ship controlling the fight versus a blaster thorax, the opposing ship will do no damage. That's worth taking into consideration. --
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.06 11:58:00 - [21] don't compare missile dps with turret dps, since the effective dps is as you guys know way closes to eachother due to the difference in how both weapon systems work
Jimmy Doe Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.08.06 12:10:00 - [22] the ferox is a turret boat, please use as such stop putting missiles on it anydamn how. You look at me and you laugh at the noob, you look at your wallet and see that insurance the SCC just paid
Max Thunderstorm	Posted - 2006.08.06 12:19:00 - [23] Originally by: Deathbarrage don't compare missile dps with turret dps, since the effective dps is as you guys know way closes to eachother due to the difference in how both weapon systems work thats a massive crock of shiat right there. turrets can easliy dish out more dps than missile boats, again i will say this, i have never had consecutive 1000+ hits from a raven but i have many times from pests and geddons. f.ex if i fire 6 cruise missile at a target 75km away, and each missiles hits dealing (avg) 300 dmg thats 1800dmg. using my current rof of 7.1 secs (yes implants) thats 253 dps. now a sniping pest landing average hits of 500+ (yes i have faught these) every 7 secs from 6 turrets is 3500 dmg in 7 secs. avg dps 500. thats alot more, and we arent even considering a "wrecking hit" here that can easily go over 1000 dmg, which i have not been able to accomplish using missiles. lets not even talk about travel time to target. take all the launchers off, give the rox a bit more grid and call it a day. done.
Merv Tring GeoTech	Posted - 2006.08.06 18:02:00 - [24] Edited by: Merv Tring on 06/08/2006 18:05:12 Edited by: Merv Tring on 06/08/2006 18:02:49 Even with the coming ECM nerf the Drake will be very powerful. Assault missiles will allow it to do very respectable damage at close range, while sporting either a heavy tank or a big ECM rack thanks to only needing a single non-tank midslot module, that being a warp disruptor. Armor tank and ECM or tank-and-gank, I see this becoming a very common ship in the PvP arena. I do retract my statement that it'll kill anything it's own size and smaller. As we all know, a competent pilot can kill most ships with most ships, allowing for class, of course.
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.06 18:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Merv Tring Edited by: Merv Tring on 06/08/2006 18:02:49 Even with the coming ECM nerf the Drake will be very powerful. Assault missiles will allow it to do very respectable damage at close range, while sporting either a heavy tank or a big ECM rack thanks to only needing a single non-tank midslot module, that being a warp disruptor. Armor tank and ECM or tank-and-gank, I see this becoming a very common ship in the PvP arena. It wont become that common of a ship if it can get pwmnd by battleships easy. And heres the thing a lot of people tend to forget about the assault missiles. If they have a 15km range how in the world are you going to get into range? Fitting a mwd and a web which is going to suck with caldari's overnerfed mass. Besides heavy rockets arnt in game yet and there are no stats on them, so dont say anything about them. THey may come out pregimped.

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