TVP have finally produced a counter( http://thevalhallaproject.info/news.html ) to the ISN proposal. Neither crosses the divide between the two differing incursion philosophies and are probably doomed to fail.

However, could this be what TVP are aiming for? Strange thing to say, you might think, but read on and judge for yourself.

The none-to-subtle approach by the TVP team shows a classic approach to propaganda and manipulation. Will the other communities realise this or will they just see the chance to get back to making iskies? Will they care?

There is nothing new in the recent TVP proposal, it is a rehash of the old differences that have been splitting incursion unity for over 2 years. What is interesting, though, is its insidious nature that seeks to enable TVP to GÇ¥controlGÇ¥ incursions by restricting freedom of other incursion communities. Who do you think will want to lead this expansion of control of incursions? There may be much denial of this but history shows this to be a classic approach.

TVP have been pretty canny with this proposal. I believe they have set it up to fail. Clear in knowledge that it will probably be unacceptable to ISN, TVP are banking on the other incursion communities believing it is a reasonable proposal (dangling the isk-making carrot in front of them, again?).

Why is this important? Well, TVP are desperate to maintain the claim to have the support of the entire incursion community (excluding ISN of course). This is line they constantly repeat in their channel. However, this does not seem to reflect reality.

What is actually behind all of this? Well, more than one of the other incursion communities has indicated that TVP have strived, but ultimately failed, to match ISN. They theorise that this inferiority seems to be at the core of the problem. One suggested that TVP see ISN as their nemesis and this was the ultimate reason for their collective psychosis (his words, not mine).

Have TVP engaged in a great piece of propaganda manipulation to finally make themselves look better than ISN? They must know their proposal will be unpalatable to ISN but they must be hoping that the other incursion communities will not see this.

If they succeed they may be scratching that itch that is their nemesis. If they fail in this attempt, their psychosis could worsen.

Proposal for fellow Incursion Runners to consider
26.9.2014
TVP Leadership and the FC team

TVP would like to thank our pilots and the communities at large who helped us along in this long and hard road taken by us. We also would like to apologize to people who were drastically affected by this stance. We hope that this agreement establishes an honorable code of conduct for incursions to ensure a better future for all incursion communities. As history has taught us progress and evolution can't be made without strife. We also would like to thank the people who assisted our fleets during the DDoS attacks and helped in recovering the loot.

Moving forward we would like to present the agreement that we fervently hope will be acceptable for all the incursion communities.

1. The Kundalini Manifest is to be off limits to all groups until the time that the incursion hits withdrawal, unless all communities unanimously agree to kill the incursion to ensure a better spawn spread.

2. Following the previous line of thought we hope all the HQ capable communities are willing to accept a MOM rotation so that everyone gets a fair share. In the event that a community is not able to form up at withdrawal they can request help from other communities with the MOM loot going to the community whoGÇÖs turn it is.

3. To try and prevent overcrowding in HQ's nowadays it would help for communities to split themselves into 2 groups and farm those incursions separately. For example: communities that have been historically at odds separate themselves from each other to alleviate tension.

4. Expanding the currently existing channel from just leadership and diplomats to all fleet commanders from all the communities. This will help clear away a lot of confusion and misinformation with a much more open line of communication. In the event of a mass disconnect, this will also help with getting the necessary help to pilots who have lost their ship.

5. With the current contest-driven environment it is desired that contests be given a fair chance. But no community may follow a fleet around after winning a contest. The winning fleet will chose the next site and head out to it. The losing fleet may head to the same site with the understanding that they agree to be re-contested.

We at TVP hope that this agreement is deemed acceptable for all communities as it addresses most of the points that, historically, issues have stemmed from. We will strife to work together with all other communities in the future with a more open dialogue so that such misunderstandings do not reoccur.

It must be said that most of the other incursion communities hold little love for ISN. However, equally important to note is that whatever support for this action TVP thought they had, from other communities, appears to fast be evaporating.

You sure about that?


DMC

Valid points all.

A subject that certainly polarises opinion, for those that care about incursions anyway.

It must be said that most of the other incursion communities hold little love for ISN. However, equally important to note is that whatever support for this action TVP thought they had, from other communities, appears to fast be evaporating.

Ciper Jones: Your language strongly points to you being from the TVP channel. That is not a problem but there is a bias showing.

From Imperial Shipment... IS... Where are you hiding N?

When ISN started griefing Inncursion runners I wardec'ed them multiple times only to have them swap corps multiple times. TVP didn't want in on it and wasn't strong enough to win the contests. I was already flying with Summer most of the time, who was wining the contests Vs. ISN half of the time anyway, so ISN focused their griefing on TVP.

I don't believe in Karma but poetic justice prevails IMHO. Now they are all crying and making less money.

Oreos dipped in tears for the win.

..

What I find interesting now is the fact that during the DDoS attacks, ISN didn't get disconnected and used the attacks to steal a bunch of loot from destroyed player ships, then when everyone came back on line, gloated and bragged about it in local chat.

ISN did lose ships, substantially more valuable than tvp's. And yes ISN must be devs how else could they log in if no one else could.
T20 mk2

You do realize how a DDoS attack works right? Just because one group of players got DC'd doesn't mean all players get DC'd. It all depends on how the DDoS attack was orchestrated and what it targeted on the network. I've seen players DC during these while I was fine, and then have the situation reverse during the next event. Put the tinfoil hattery away.

..

You do realize how a DDoS attack works right? Just because one group of players got DC'd doesn't mean all players get DC'd. It all depends on how the DDoS attack was orchestrated and what it targeted on the network. I've seen players DC during these while I was fine, and then have the situation reverse during the next event. Put the tinfoil hattery away.

All ISN did was take advantage of a bad situation. Was it right? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares? It is just spaceship pixels. Once you start taking this game too seriously, then maybe it is time to step away from it for awhile.

Ciper Jones: Your language strongly points to you being from the TVP channel. That is not a problem but there is a bias showing.

I have no doubt that any ISN input would be just as biased from their perspective.

Really, it is the independent view that would be the most informative here. In reality, I doubt there are any truly independent views, but c'est la vie.

Just as an example of some differing perspectives:

TVP's view of griefing = ISN's view of contesting

TVPs' view of tears = ISN's view of discussions

Although,

TVP trolling = ISN trolling

Both communities are convinced the other is suffering most and losing more people.

you sound a lot like an ISN member.

Summer community was actually dead before ISN began doing HQ sites

First of all, if the situation was reversed both of you would obviously care and probably be demanding restitution.

Secondly, how do you know ISN suffered a lot more loss than TVP did from the DDoS attacks? The statements seem to indicate differently. Please link your proof.

Anyway it doesn't really matter. Obviously the server wasn't operating correctly so consequently that should negate any loss or gains acquired during that time for everyone game wide. Yes I agree this is a game. Games have rules and this one has rules against exploitation. Plain and simple, ISN exploited the situation when the server was under DDoS attack.

Personally I don't give a rats arse what either of you say. There's been way too many shady backroom deals done in this game to ignore so don't tell me to put the tinfoil hattery away. Now if you believe otherwise, then you're really naive. Seems to me you're the ones who need to step back from the game for a while.


DMC

For me it's amazing how TVP is still consider ISN an entity and "incursion community" despite ISN's newest ~0 ISK/month (!) income rate (more than a month passed since their last effective HQ farm). From the look of things ISN now isn't any more of incursion community than TEST for example - TEST also makes 0 ISK/month from incursions.

If incursions (and income from them) were actual points of ISN's existence then they'd reform and start to farm weeks ago but instead they prove on daily basis money isn't their goal, they look like dedicated griefing company rather than a business - and as long as they'll continue to provoke TVP I'll support TVP's sanctions (anyway I can make ISK in TVP fleets out of ISN's prime time hehe)

p.s. dear devs, how about 6-12 hours incursion respawn time instead of 12-36 hours?

I wouldn't count them out. The inside joke about this drama is "TVP: The Vacation Project" - ISN is still very much alive, and people are just relaxing if they don't need the ISK, and the few that might need it or want to fly are flying with every other community and adding to their ISK per hour with shiney fits... say what you will about ISN if you are a hater, they run good fleets and the pilots know their ****... I have seen that ISN pilots get a immediate pick-up in fleets wanting to make ISK in an evening... before, as they say "the TVPricks pop the mom again".

ISN is a band of people who run fleets and then there is a secondary that are in and out, but the primary... very, very much alive and relaxing it out.... sorry Juli, but fail again... hehe.

They were quite alive when ISN started contesting every site and popping moms.

For me it's amazing how TVP is still consider ISN an entity and "incursion community" despite ISN's newest ~0 ISK/month (!) income rate (more than a month passed since their last effective HQ farm).

Helix doesn't support it. WTM doesn't support it. DIN doesn't support it. I mean, I'm just listing off the three that come to mind, but even when I do I'm sure there are a lot more who haven't supported it, at all.

Unfortunately, at least one person named charadrass has posted publicly that DIN does support it.

Helix is officially neutral, with FCs and pilots allowed to speak their conscience, per Aeon. And while I don't speak entirely for helix, I do know you do NOT.

This all said, I'm pretty bummed about it personally, as traveling cuts into my BSing and drinking time.

Everyone knows that Charadrass is a bit weird and got this hard on for ISN ever since he was asked to leave/kicked out of the community. So everything against ISN, Carandrass approves, good thing too that he isn't speaking for the entire DIN community.

Official DIN STATEMENT:
We support the Incursion closing till ISN stops forming HQ.
We even support TVP in numbers for mom fleets if we're in the same focus.

so yes. there is drama, but we dont care.
noble ranger is currently paying pilots to join the HQfleet to get pilots together to force TVP to close it.
ISN FCs currently prefer flying vanguards or assaults to make money, Noble Ranger is the only FC trying to get an HQ up to cut his own pilots off the income.

dear isn pilots, if you like making isk with incursions, stay in vanguards / assaults or join another fleet.
everytime ISN HQ undocks, the incursion will die.

Do you really think people will let TVP dictate there gameplay?

Please go back to you're cave. Nobody wants you here with you're ideas that Noble is "paying" ISN pilots to come do HQ sites. And frankly this can be dragged for a VERY VERY long time and this isn't even the beginning on what can actually happen ... so relax go outside and enjoy the outdoors cos we don't play Incursions Online

TVP have finally produced a counter( http://thevalhallaproject.info/news.html ) to the ISN proposal. Neither crosses the divide between the two differing incursion philosophies and are probably doomed to fail.

However, could this be what TVP are aiming for? Strange thing to say, you might think, but read on and judge for yourself.

The none-to-subtle approach by the TVP team shows a classic approach to propaganda and manipulation. Will the other communities realise this or will they just see the chance to get back to making iskies? Will they care?

There is nothing new in the recent TVP proposal, it is a rehash of the old differences that have been splitting incursion unity for over 2 years. What is interesting, though, is its insidious nature that seeks to enable TVP to GÇ¥controlGÇ¥ incursions by restricting freedom of other incursion communities. Who do you think will want to lead this expansion of control of incursions? There may be much denial of this but history shows this to be a classic approach.

TVP have been pretty canny with this proposal. I believe they have set it up to fail. Clear in knowledge that it will probably be unacceptable to ISN, TVP are banking on the other incursion communities believing it is a reasonable proposal (dangling the isk-making carrot in front of them, again?).

Why is this important? Well, TVP are desperate to maintain the claim to have the support of the entire incursion community (excluding ISN of course). This is line they constantly repeat in their channel. However, this does not seem to reflect reality.

What is actually behind all of this? Well, more than one of the other incursion communities has indicated that TVP have strived, but ultimately failed, to match ISN. They theorise that this inferiority seems to be at the core of the problem. One suggested that TVP see ISN as their nemesis and this was the ultimate reason for their collective psychosis (his words, not mine).

Have TVP engaged in a great piece of propaganda manipulation to finally make themselves look better than ISN? They must know their proposal will be unpalatable to ISN but they must be hoping that the other incursion communities will not see this.

If they succeed they may be scratching that itch that is their nemesis. If they fail in this attempt, their psychosis could worsen.

Please go back to you're cave. Nobody wants you here with you're ideas that Noble is "paying" ISN pilots to come do HQ sites. And frankly this can be dragged for a VERY VERY long time and this isn't even the beginning on what can actually happen ... so relax go outside and enjoy the outdoors cos we don't play Incursions Online

For me it's amazing how TVP is still consider ISN an entity and "incursion community" despite ISN's newest ~0 ISK/month (!) income rate (more than a month passed since their last effective HQ farm). From the look of things ISN now isn't any more of incursion community than TEST for example - TEST also makes 0 ISK/month from incursions.

If incursions (and income from them) were actual points of ISN's existence then they'd reform and start to farm weeks ago but instead they prove on daily basis money isn't their goal, they look like dedicated griefing company rather than a business - and as long as they'll continue to provoke TVP I'll support TVP's sanctions (anyway I can make ISK in TVP fleets out of ISN's prime time hehe)

p.s. dear devs, how about 6-12 hours incursion respawn time instead of 12-36 hours?

To hell with propaganda, whoever performs better deserves the jackpot. If ISN can come in and contest a site and win it then they deserve it and TVP needs to stop acting like spoiled kindergardeners, and vice versa. FIght for it, screw talking it out. FIGHT FOR IT TO THE PAIN!!!

Lmao

I dont think you understand ISN at all, primary is more like a corp and the core of ISN more like a family than any community/group/allience/corp ive ever been in during all my years eve.


You cannot break us

to hell with propaganda, whoever performs better deserves the jackpot, if tvp can come into a mom site and win it isn needs to stop acting like spoiled kindergardeners.



then i dont understand your tears really. if it dont bother you and isn, then isn shouldnt even publish postings full of tears.

just stay unbroken till the end of the universe, cause you make like no money in HQ :)

Only tears I see being harvested are coming from TVP. You're being trolled and you don't even realize it. If ISN can undock only in ship hulls and you automatically form and pop the MOM, then they are owning you. They are forcing TVP into an action they would otherwise be unwilling to do in normal circumstances, and costing everyone their Incursion farming; not just ISN.

So the only kindergarteners I see here is TVP and their mentality of, "If you can't play my way, I will take the ball and go home."

You cannot break us

Made you hop corps 3 times with a one man corp. LOL.

Costing him about 0 isk, and you 150M. GJ.

When ISK is worth more than balls gimme a holler.

When you find an incursion guy who *doesnt* hop corp for a wardec, gimme a holler

Quick solutions stop whining and hire mercs.... You've got the money, otherwise unbunch your panties and get over it, its just a game.

This thread has been moved to Crime & Punishment.

I get that whiney, self-entitled incursion bears are a crime but do the upstanding citizens of C&P really have to be punished for it? Isn't there an incursion sub-forum or something? Failing that, how about the scariest darkest recess of the forum (intergalactic summit)?

No kidding. What did we do to make ISD Ezwal hate us this much?