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Heavy vs. Assault missile launchers?

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Naxor	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Naxor on 08/08/2006 16:00:12 Trying to see the real difference here. Why are heavy missiles less effective against fast moving frigates? Also, why are assault launchers better than standard ones since they use the same ammo? This is related to the other thread I posted, but the topic has changed since the title so ... N
Guile D'Verde	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:10:00 - [2] Heavies often don't hit for full against fast moving targets, but catch them with splash damage instead. Assault launchers are better then standard launchers due to a significantly improved rate of fire.
Reithan Caldari Dark Planet Ventures	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:35:00 - [3] If you look at the math behind missile damage though, size of target affects missile damage much more than target speed...theoretically. Unless your target's going upwards of 2km/s speed shouldn't be a big damage factor. That being said, if you look at the "explosion radius" of a heavy missile and light missile (Which assualts fire...until Kali, anyway) versus the "signature radius" of a frigate...you'll see why assualt launchers are better against frigates. Also, there's a guide to missile damage in the Player Guide. It's good info. DOWN WITH THE TECH2 LOTTERY!!!
Caleb Paine Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:46:00 - [4] There's a few variables when it comes to missile damage, and it's in relation to the target. One is explosion velocity; if the target moves faster than the explosion velocity of the missile it'll do less damage. The other is explosion radius. If the signaaure radius of the target is smaller than the explosion radius of the missile you do less damage. Bigger missiles have a slow explosion velocity and a bigger explosion radius. The MOST IMPORTANT thing is that the begigger the missile the less 'efficient' it becomes, the base damage related to the expl. velocity and radius is less good. Because of this you can now state that if the missile used is 'too big' you'll do a lot less damage. For ease of use just remember that if you can't fit it on the shipclass you're attacking it's not gonna hit for full damage. ----------------- Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
Naxor	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:53:00 - [5] Edited by: Naxor on 08/08/2006 16:54:24 Well, against those Gallente Navy Support Vessels I noticed that I was able to do some decent damange to them while at range (~38km). But when they got in close, webbed me, then starting circling around my ship ... my heavy missiles did very little damage. So by the "ship size" calculations, I shouldn't have done any more damage to them based on distance. But based on "ship speed" calculations, seems like that was the deciding factor. Perhaps it also has to do with trajectories? When they're chasing me, they are moving in a straight line. So they don't move far out of the blast radius. But when they're circling around me, they tend to move completely out of the blast radius. I'll try with the assault launcers just to see. But my hunch is that they won't do much damage either when the ships have me webbed and are circling around. There is a minor inconsistency here. If "speed" is the issue, then I should do the same amount of damage regardless of how far away they are. And it is indeed "speed" or "trajectory" that I'm noticing makes the biggest difference. N
Reithan Caldari Dark Planet Ventures	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:56:00 - [6] Don't forget the sheer random factor. Within the damage calculation there is a bit of random "play". So, perhaps you just got lucky while you were at range, then crapped out when they got close? Or it could be some unknown complication. Also, missiles, like ships, have a certain acceleration and agility. So those HEAVY missiles are less agile than your light missiles the assualt would fire and thus accelerate and track targets better. Perhaps that's the discrepancy? DOWN WITH THE TECH2 LOTTERY!!!
Naxor	Posted - 2006.08.08 16:59:00 - [7] Well, they both have the same stats in terms of acceleration. But agility may be the key. That would explain how when firing "head on" towards an enemy chasing me from behind, they do more damage. It's not random. I can consistently do a ton of dmg to them at around 40km. It's when they get in under 5km that my heavys seem useless. Will be fun to test later tonight. The rockets are cool, but require getting in a bit "too close" for me. N
Guile D'Verde	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:02:00 - [8] Quote: I'll try with the assault launcers just to see. But my hunch is that they won't do much damage either when the ships have me webbed and are circling around. Seriously, I think you'll find assualt launchers much more effective against frigates. It's really night and day difference.
Reithan Caldari Dark Planet Ventures	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Naxor Well, they both have the same stats in terms of acceleration. They may have the same "Max Velocity" stat, but that doesn't mean they accelerate at the same rate. It takes heavies longer to get up to max speed than a light, or even a rocket. You wanna see a slow, low acceleration, EXTREME example of this? Get someone to show you a Torpedo...the slug of the missile world. The things just sort of OOZE out of your missile tube, crawl for a bit, then eventually get up to a brisk walk to the target. And sometime a few years in the future they impact. DOWN WITH THE TECH2 LOTTERY!!!
Naxor	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:15:00 - [10] Originally by: Guile D'Verde Quote: I'll try with the assault launcers just to see. But my hunch is that they won't do much damage either when the ships have me webbed and are circling around. Seriously, I think you'll find assualt launchers much more effective against frigates. It's really night and day difference. Even more effective than my dandy little rocket launchers? I've grown fond of those little tykes. ;-) Seriously though, if the assaults do work better I'll be happy. It would make much quicker work. N
Jobie Thickburger Gallente Miner Guide to the Galaxy	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:20:00 - [11] Edited by: Jobie Thickburger on 08/08/2006 17:21:54 Originally by: Naxor Edited by: Naxor on 08/08/2006 16:54:24 Well, against those Gallente Navy Support Vessels I noticed that I was able to do some decent damange to them while at range (~38km). But when they got in close, webbed me, then starting circling around my ship ... my heavy missiles did very little damage. So by the "ship size" calculations, I shouldn't have done any more damage to them based on distance. But based on "ship speed" calculations, seems like that was the deciding factor. Perhaps it also has to do with trajectories? When they're chasing me, they are moving in a straight line. So they don't move far out of the blast radius. But when they're circling around me, they tend to move completely out of the blast radius. I'll try with the assault launcers just to see. But my hunch is that they won't do much damage either when the ships have me webbed and are circling around. There is a minor inconsistency here. If "speed" is the issue, then I should do the same amount of damage regardless of how far away they are. And it is indeed "speed" or "trajectory" that I'm noticing makes the biggest difference. N The assault launchers will hit the frigs for the same amount of damage. The reason you got the good hits off on the frigs to start was because the missiles hit them head on, so they did (near) full damage, once they started to orbit you up close, your missiles wern't able to hit for full damage since the missiles were "grazing" them, rather than hitting them dead-on. I run into the same effect when ratting BSs in my Thorax, If I fly strait towards them, the missiles hit my sheilds for around 300dmg, if I fly at an angle, I get hit for about 250. If you picture the missile and the ship in your head, And have em crash nose-nose, it'll make sense. Then picture the missile blowing up beside the frig. Does damage, but not as much. When you get to the smaller, "standard" missiles, you'll notice that they hit less than your heavies, at first, but will continue to hit for the same damage, because they are a smaller, more manuverable missile, and are able to hit the smaller targets better ADD--- As for rockets, they will do more damage vs frigs, but you try and get in range with rockets in a caracal... Also, remember this is for Frigates, those heavies will work wonders on a Cruiser! CEO - MGTTG
Guile D'Verde	Posted - 2006.08.08 17:23:00 - [12] Quote: Even more effective than my dandy little rocket launchers? Of course rocket launchers will do higher dps at close range, but it didn't occur to me you would fit rocket launchers on the same rig as heavy launchers. Most people agree that spreading your setup between ranges is not ideal.
Pang Grohl Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.08 18:01:00 - [13] Think of it this way. When your target is flying straight at you and your missile the target is also flying into the blast front of your missile. When the target is flying away from the missile it can go faster than the blast front. Light missiles have 1750 m/sec explosion velocity Heavy missiles have 750 m/sec explosion velocity A frigate going 800 m/sec will be caught in the explosion of the light missile no matter if it's flying to or from the missile. With a heavy missile if the frigate is flying to the missile it will run face first into the explosion. If the frigate is flying away from the missile, the explosion doesn't catch the frigate. This signature is a tribute to the greatest signature of all time. It's not the greatest signature ever, it's just a... Tribute!!
Xia Winters THANATOS REEPERS	Posted - 2006.08.08 18:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Naxor Well, against those Gallente Navy Support Vessels I noticed that I was able to do some decent damange to them while at range (~38km). But when they got in close, webbed me, then starting circling around my ship ... my heavy missiles did very little damage. Normally these are "tackler" type ships with better than average resists, web / scram ... and an MWD. The reason you were doing decent damage from 38km was because they were MWD'ing towards you, increasing the size of their signature and makes them absorb more damage than they would normally. Once they were closer the MWD can be turned off, reducing their signature and making them harder to damage. The trick with these (and good missile skills) is to focus your fire on them while they MWD - if you're lucky you can kill / cripple them while they're inbound. When their MWD clicks off you can either keep firing to finish them yourself or use drones to speed the process up. Mostly it depends your ship and whether you consider them a major threat, or whether they're just a nuisance. --- Overkill. Because there's no prize for second place.

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