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Neugeniko
Insight Securities
39
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Posted - 2014.09.29 11:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi S&I,
I've run a bunch of simulations for various combinations of mining ships/booster ships to get an idea of the setups with optimal isk per hour per account. If you have been reading my Jita Miners Indices thread you would be familar with the spreadsheet I use to do this. It takes into account things like overmining, losing boosts due to warping/docking and hauling ore from asteroid belt to npc/station or POS. Anyway here are the results, Isk per hour per account.
- Mackinaw - 17M
- Orca+Hulk - 19.4M
- Mackinaw+Hulk - 21.2M
- Orca+2Hulks - 24.1M
- Orca+3Hulks - 26.3M
- Orca+4Hulks - 27.4M
- Orca+5Hulks - 28.1M
Here are the simulations if you require further details. And to help those already using the spreadsheet with examples.
Mackinaw
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqV1bpYXPCoTdEFLTDlyZnFkYUFxWVQ2QWViclBzUFE&usp=sharing
Orca+Hulk
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqV1bpYXPCoTdHRvSVk4Uk8wOHdjWEdrQ0UxVlVmM2c&usp=sharing
Mackinaw+Hulk (This requires 2 spreadsheets, one for each mining ship. Note the cargo is split between spreadsheets)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqV1bpYXPCoTdHMxbmNydndFeWUxN0VGZFJxS21BTHc&usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqV1bpYXPCoTdC1yczBnMGNGeVpyUThYd3pLbnhjTEE&usp=sharing
Orca+2Hulks (Note I just increase the number of lasers and drones here)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqV1bpYXPCoTdDZIRllsTUtxN0s2OFZtSUFFYUFTX2c&usp=sharing
Orca+3Hulks (Note I just increase the number of lasers and drones here)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqV1bpYXPCoTdERWc2RXaVZUZlFVc3NOYkRzbFVGd1E&usp=sharing
Orca+4Hulks (Note I just increase the number of lasers and drones here)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqV1bpYXPCoTdGI4M2FfWmNLZHRkRm5zdUhLZ1M5NlE&usp=sharing
Orca+5Hulks (Note I just increase the number of lasers and drones here)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqV1bpYXPCoTdEhuSzRqSjIwbGdBX25BSVhhM2NveEE&usp=sharing
Cheers,
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
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Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
988
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 12:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Neat, thanks.
Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
I post on my main... shocking I know! |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
67
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 12:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
In other words, don't bother. There are a dozen better ways to spend your time in Eve. 28mil/hr? That's laughable.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager |
Wopasi
Wicoti
5
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Posted - 2014.09.29 13:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Across the 6 account example, 28.1 million per account is 168.6 million per hour total. Yes there are other ways to make isk, but some people like to mine.
Eve is open ended and there is no real way to pick who wins. If you like isk, then more isk wins for you; if you like to mine, then more ore is how you win. |
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
40
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Posted - 2014.09.29 13:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:In other words, don't bother. There are a dozen better ways to spend your time in Eve. 28mil/hr? That's laughable.
Yeah it's best considered supplemental income while you do other trade and industry things like station trading, managing research and manufacturing, selling products and chatting with corpies.
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
189
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Posted - 2014.09.29 13:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
I note you've ditched your quote of 37 million ISK p/h for mining Veldspar with an Orca & Hulk from your previous 'Jita Miners Indices' OP. That figure was so over the top.  |
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
40
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 13:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:I note you've ditched your quote of 37 million ISK p/h for mining Veldspar with an Orca & Hulk from your previous 'Jita Miners Indices' OP. That figure was so over the top.
Read to topic title, isk per hour per account.
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
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Marcus Tedric
Tedric Enterprises
The Star League
1
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Posted - 2014.09.29 16:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Why not consider Orca + Freighter + as many miners as you can get in range of the Orca's Fleet Hanger....
Minimal warping (and only to a temp POS); no loss of boosts; plenty of spare crystals handy; more time to relax and chew the cud.
The only real effort is continually emptying the Hanger - and watching for those evil gankers. |
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
40
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 22:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Why not consider Orca + Freighter + as many miners as you can get in range of the Orca's Fleet Hanger.... Minimal warping (and only to a temp POS); no loss of boosts; plenty of spare crystals handy; more time to relax and chew the cud. The only real effort is continually emptying the Hanger - and watching for those evil gankers.
I ran the numbers just for the hell of it.....:). Once you have 10 or more hulks with the orca, add a freighter. :)
Cheers,
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
|
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club
Biggby Coffee Fan Club
47
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Posted - 2014.09.30 12:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Why not consider Orca + Freighter + as many miners as you can get in range of the Orca's Fleet Hanger.... Minimal warping (and only to a temp POS); no loss of boosts; plenty of spare crystals handy; more time to relax and chew the cud. The only real effort is continually emptying the Hanger - and watching for those evil gankers.
Why use the hanger? Drop your ore and pick the cans up direct with the freighter. Set all your miners to KIR@1600m to the freighter. Don't even take the orca to the belt unless you need the room for crystals (except you have a nice cargohold now that has only one purpose)
Or for the lazy, mobile tractor unit, freighter KIR 1000m to it and stager your drops.
Why does your isk per hour not scale a little better the more hulks you use? Why only a 1.5m per hour increase going to the next hulk?
Realistically I have found mining with 4 skiffs, orca boost I can get more per hour than those numbers, not much more, but more. |
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Marcus Tedric
Tedric Enterprises
The Star League
1
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Posted - 2014.09.30 14:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
King Aires wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:Why not consider Orca + Freighter + as many miners as you can get in range of the Orca's Fleet Hanger.... Minimal warping (and only to a temp POS); no loss of boosts; plenty of spare crystals handy; more time to relax and chew the cud. The only real effort is continually emptying the Hanger - and watching for those evil gankers. Why use the hanger? Drop your ore and pick the cans up direct with the freighter. Set all your miners to KIR@1600m to the freighter. Don't even take the orca to the belt unless you need the room for crystals (except you have a nice cargohold now that has only one purpose) Or for the lazy, mobile tractor unit, freighter KIR 1000m to it and stager your drops. .....................
1 - Because unless it's changed since I last 'knew' - you can't pick up cans (nor tractor them, indeed) with a Freighter
however,
2 - Yes, you can use an MTU, but that still requires cans - which can be stolen from. A Fleet Hanger is completely secure.
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Neugeniko
Insight Securities
40
|
Posted - 2014.09.30 15:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
King Aires wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:Why not consider Orca + Freighter + as many miners as you can get in range of the Orca's Fleet Hanger.... Minimal warping (and only to a temp POS); no loss of boosts; plenty of spare crystals handy; more time to relax and chew the cud. The only real effort is continually emptying the Hanger - and watching for those evil gankers. Why use the hanger? Drop your ore and pick the cans up direct with the freighter. Set all your miners to KIR@1600m to the freighter. Don't even take the orca to the belt unless you need the room for crystals (except you have a nice cargohold now that has only one purpose) Or for the lazy, mobile tractor unit, freighter KIR 1000m to it and stager your drops. Why does your isk per hour not scale a little better the more hulks you use? Why only a 1.5m per hour increase going to the next hulk? Realistically I have found mining with 4 skiffs, orca boost I can get more per hour than those numbers, not much more, but more.
That's isk per hour per account as the topic and OP states.
Cheers,
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
|
Samwise Everquest
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
96
|
Posted - 2014.09.30 15:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
A post with info. A+ Despite not mining myself what I take away from this is the following.
If your a solo miner and not flying with an Orca buddy, you are dead wrong. 28 mil an hour aint bad if you are only running one account. Miners make friends or join a corp because its obvious you could be making a lot more with the same effort. |
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
40
|
Posted - 2014.09.30 17:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Samwise Everquest wrote:A post with info. A+ Despite not mining myself what I take away from this is the following.
If your a solo miner and not flying with an Orca buddy, you are dead wrong. 28 mil an hour aint bad if you are only running one account. Miners make friends or join a corp because its obvious you could be making a lot more with the same effort.
Excellent point. If you join a mining fleet with a orca, the isk you get just keeps getting better as the fleet size grows!
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
|
necro foxman
Brave Provisions
Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.09.30 21:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:King Aires wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:Why not consider Orca + Freighter + as many miners as you can get in range of the Orca's Fleet Hanger.... Minimal warping (and only to a temp POS); no loss of boosts; plenty of spare crystals handy; more time to relax and chew the cud. The only real effort is continually emptying the Hanger - and watching for those evil gankers. Why use the hanger? Drop your ore and pick the cans up direct with the freighter. Set all your miners to KIR@1600m to the freighter. Don't even take the orca to the belt unless you need the room for crystals (except you have a nice cargohold now that has only one purpose) Or for the lazy, mobile tractor unit, freighter KIR 1000m to it and stager your drops. ..................... 1 - Because unless it's changed since I last 'knew' - you can't pick up cans (nor tractor them, indeed) with a Freighter however, 2 - Yes, you can use an MTU, but that still requires cans - which can be stolen from. A Fleet Hanger is completely secure.
I think you can pickup cans with freighters now, but I could be wrong. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club
Biggby Coffee Fan Club
47
|
Posted - 2014.09.30 21:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:
I think you can pickup cans with freighters now, but I could be wrong.
Yes you can pick up cans now...
Also if you are worried about can stealers the offender would likely just bump your orca away from your fleet anyways, so the result is no mining until you warp out and back in.
I just find the micromanagement of handling 40k of cargo at a time worthless. If I were to bump operations to 10 miners that would be between 150k and 350k of ore at a time, which the freighter could take 3 to 7 times before needing to unload, and when he unloads he interrupts no mining as your orca still b
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Neugeniko
Insight Securities
40
|
Posted - 2014.09.30 22:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Request for input into simulation
In the simulation I assume all mining drones on grid are put on a single asteroid, the nearest one, approximately 3 seconds away.This generally is fine for 1-5 ship setups but starts to reduce the IPH by over 1% after that due drone overmining, lots of drones on a roid. You think its worth fixing this error. It is a bit of work and I don't have enough spreadsheet cells to do a mathematically correct solution for say when you have MINING SHIP MINING DRONES not a multiple of 5 and probably some other scenarios.
So the question I guess is should I forgo exactness for a better assumption of using drones that can't be mathematically simulated well?
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
|
Taerdais
Baaaah Baaa BAAAA
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 02:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Interesting, so 2 macks isn't more efficient then a hulk and an orca, given a long enough simulation. |
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 04:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Taerdais wrote:Interesting, so 2 macks isn't more efficient then a hulk and an orca, given a long enough simulation.
Yeah, thou I don't show the 2 Mack simulation results in the OP, just the solo mack. Generally people go mackinaw plus hulk (mackinaw mines and hauls) rather than 2 Mack's if their going for maximum isk on two accounts.
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
|
Dave Stark
7009
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 07:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:In other words, don't bother. There are a dozen better ways to spend your time in Eve. 28mil/hr? That's laughable.
correct. it's the great irony of eve. if you want ore/minerals, mining is the worst way to get it. |
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Neugeniko
Insight Securities
40
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Posted - 2014.10.01 08:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Added twin mackinaw to the list.
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
|
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club
Biggby Coffee Fan Club
47
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 23:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
In your other thread you have several miners who question the 37mil/hour a Hulk with booster gets. I too question that number but regardless there is a major problem with your numbers.
You have a Hulk and Orca in this simulation thread at 19+mil per account, but Hulk with boosts in your calculations and other thread is 37mil. 37/2 is not 19+
Also you have a solo mackinaw way under valued at 18mil, when in reality a solo mackinaw without boosts should be in the low 20's
Not sure where your math is wrong as I don't have time (or a need) for your spreadsheet, but wondered where the inconsistencies are coming from? |
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 01:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
King Aires wrote:In your other thread you have several miners who question the 37mil/hour a Hulk with booster gets. I too question that number but regardless there is a major problem with your numbers.
You have a Hulk and Orca in this simulation thread at 19+mil per account, but Hulk with boosts in your calculations and other thread is 37mil. 37/2 is not 19+
Also you have a solo mackinaw way under valued at 18mil, when in reality a solo mackinaw without boosts should be in the low 20's
Not sure where your math is wrong as I don't have time (or a need) for your spreadsheet, but wondered where the inconsistencies are coming from?
My simulations take into account hauling ore from asteroid belt to station/pos and overmining which accounts for the mackinaw being worse than using a simpler calculator. The aim of the simulator is too be more accurate than the common third party tools or manual calculation.
The discrepancy between threads is price change, the spreadsheets use eve central price data which changes regularly.
The simulator is wrong, but less wrong than other tools that don't take major inefficiencies into account.
Cheers,
Neug
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate
http://goo.gl/I1t9e8
Mining Simulator V2.7
http://goo.gl/uq4g4i
|
Erik Sokarad
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 17:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
mining is best viewed as an additional income source, or a way to build capital. your real money comes from using other skills to affect the market- buy, sell, contract, refine, manufacture, and so on. however most of these things require a minimal amount of interaction per day, and you can then spend the rest of your time online doing other activities. mining is one such option, as are mining missions.
the problem with most mining simulations in EVE, is that they often fail to account for Risk. while everyone knows that risk exists, many fail to consider the cost of a lost ship, or even the cost of insurance when a ship is not lost in that timeframe. |
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