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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:09:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Reggie Stoneloader on 08/08/2006 22:14:41
We can't get away from the need for instas, because they're so ingrained in how the galaxy works. Without them, travel times and vulnerability would ruin everyone.
Bookmarks weren't originally intended to be used as instas, and so they aren't structured in a way that's conducive to it. In order to have gate-to-gate instas, you sometimes need to have six bookmarks near one gate, to accomodate the different directions from which you could be coming. That's where a large number of the surplus bookmarks come from.
So how about this: Let ships warp to manually created bookmarks at 1km.
Instead of cruising 12km past the gate in every relevant direction and making a mark, you just fly right up next to it, well within the jump radius, and create a bookmark that'll work from any direction. If you just right-click on the overview and bookmark the stargate from 45AU away, that bookmark will behave as though you were warping to the stargate, and won't let you drop closer than 15km, so you can't make an insta real quick to dodge out of enemy territory. The 1km minimum warp would only work on marks that had been created using the "add bookmark" button.
Gate instas, station instas and instas to GSCs full of ammo and whatnot would be easier to make, and would require fewer individual bookmarks to be stored.
The only real gameplay implication I can think of is that you'll be able to get around bubbles by warping to a planet, then to the gate, and still have the insta effect. I'm not sure how many times that aspect of the current system has ever been absolutely crucial to a tactical situation. I've never had it come up.
Edit: I'm thinking of this in conjunction with codepic's excellent corporate bookmarks idea, so that you can have a reasonable number of them and the naming and use will be simpler.
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Guillame Herschel
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Posted - 2006.08.09 19:55:00 -
[2]
I have a method for bookmarking that uses less bm (very often MUCH less) than g-t-g and station-to-gate insta methods, except in systems with only one or two gates.
Example: system has 3 gates, 2 stations, 1 safe spot bm. None of the gates, stations or safe spots are close to each other or aligned well enough to share any gate instas.
G-T-G bms: 9
Safe-To-Gate bms: 3
Station-To-Gate bms: 6
Station insta bms: 2
Safe spot bm: 1
Total bms for G-T-G method: 21
My method:
gates: 6 bm
stations: 2 bm
safe spot: 1 bm
Total bm for my method: 9
I leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out what my method is.
 Quote:
The only real gameplay implication I can think of is that you'll be able to get around bubbles by warping to a planet, then to the gate, and still have the insta effect. I'm not sure how many times that aspect of the current system has ever been absolutely crucial to a tactical situation.
A properly deployed warp bubble at a gate will catch a pilot coming from any direction who intends to land within the gate's activation range.
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.08.09 22:48:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
I leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out what my method is.
Don't be a jerk. What's different between your idea and mine from the first post in this thread? None of us have such brilliant, self-evident ideas that it's anything but a consescending cop-out to present it in the form of a riddle.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.10 02:06:00 -
[4]
I'd just produce a insta by "scanning" the gate, which brings you out at say 5m from it. (to avoid the bump issue). Then you need one "insta" per object, and all instas for the same object...are the same.
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.10 02:59:00 -
[5]
This is actually a pretty good and cheap-to-implement solution. It leaves gameplay almost exactly as-is, but reduces the database demands of instas by a large factor.
One more suggestion along these lines, can we make insta-copying happen in 'batch mode' somehow? In other words if I want to copy a folder of 600 instas, I throw them into some kind of slot, come back two hours later and deliver my copied instas. Much better than sitting there waiting.
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.08.10 07:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I'd just produce a insta by "scanning" the gate, which brings you out at say 5m from it. (to avoid the bump issue). Then you need one "insta" per object, and all instas for the same object...are the same.
This would be good, and you could even make a module for it, then give CovOps ships a bonus for that module that replaces their silly combat bonus.
With regard to "Batch" copying, how does downtime work? Could you conceivably put a bunch of instas in a "Copy Queue" that would generate a duplicate set and put them in your hangar during server downtime? I don't know what the servers are doing during that hour, but if there are no hotfixes or tweaks going on, I've got to think they could dedicate five minutes to doing some high-priority bookmark copying.
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Galan Amarias
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Posted - 2006.08.10 07:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
I have a method for bookmarking that uses less bm
Are you sure you don't have 3 gate BM, 1 for each, and not 6? After all it looks like you have all of your instas keyed to work from your single SS.
As for the rest, an "insta" built into the game for gates that works from any direction would reduce several BM for systems you spend a lot of time in, namely ones where you mine or rat or live since you'll need to get to the gate from all those different vectors but it still leaves the hundreds gathering dust in yours and everyone elses folders for the systems they only might travel through or don't visit often.
Please take a look at the "Ovuer her is your solution" thread, which addresses instas and a possible new dynamic for camps and interdiction, then you can see what a really long winded person I really am  and it;ll give the thread a nice bump.
-Galan
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.08.10 08:44:00 -
[8]
When shamelessly plugging your own thread, it's considered good manners to provide a link.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:00:00 -
[9]
Use factories to copy BM. That shifts the issue of copying entirely away from the Eve real-time system into the seperate server which handles the factory system.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.10 15:18:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 10/08/2006 15:19:06
Originally by: Galan Amarias
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
I have a method for bookmarking that uses less bm
Are you sure you don't have 3 gate BM, 1 for each, and not 6? After all it looks like you have all of your instas keyed to work from your single SS.
I bet he has 1 outgrid observation point for each gate for 2000km directional scanning and jumping from diffrent direction then espected bubble :)
Good system but normally those sets are not on market ;)
But using it nicely reflects the "safe vs fast" Oveurs design requirement :)
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Matrim Acoma
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Posted - 2006.08.11 06:44:00 -
[11]
Ellaine,
Can you explain what you mean by an 'outgrid' observation point? I'm a n00b, and haven't done much bookmarking.
The 1 SS & 2 Station make sense, I'm just trying to figure out how the 6 gate marks would be used.
The idea of going Gate to SS to Gate make sense, meaning 2 jumps to get through a system. I'm assuming the 'outgrid' BM is 2000km away from the gate, so instead of going from SS to Gate, you would go from Gate to SS to Observation Point, then back to SS then to Gate? That's alot of jumps to go gate to gate.....
I'm sure I'm missing something pretty simple, but it's late....
- Mat
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Flo Unda
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Posted - 2006.08.11 07:48:00 -
[12]
I agree with this poster. Instas are ingrained. They are also how people who don't want to pvp can avoid it. It works for everyone the same as soon as you have them. Besides the warp to 1km option, just warping directly on top of gates seems a fine option too. If you want to set up a gate camp for a war (or pirating) use bubbles (I know they only work in 0.0 but wars should be there mostly anyway, that is the space you are trying to control). You can't remove bookmarks totally or "Dude, where's my giant secure can?" becomes a local cry.
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