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Kernel Dagger
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kernel Dagger on 08/08/2006 22:29:35
The current state of EVE PvP seems to revolve almost entirely around gate camping in 0.0, or tanking sentries in lowsec. You enter a system, and either there's a camp there or not. Depending on the quality of the camp, and whether or not you have stabs or they have bubbles, you may or may not make it out alive... but your fate was sealed as soon as you hit the Jump button in the previous system. Due to incomplete or out of date information on the map, this is extremely frustrating to experience, and it's almost always outside your control.
The goal of the following changes is to move the survivability of a camp out of the entrance to a system, where your fate is sealed before you act, and move the camp to the exit, making whether or not you can survive into a contest of pilot skills, rather than a lack of proper information.
- Give warp bubbles scramble strength, and make them respect stabs.
- Remove bookmarks. All of them.
- Change the distance at which you enter the system to 50km from the gate, rather than 15km.
- (Possibly) Immediately after decloaking in a system, provide a brief signature radius bonus.
By making bubbles respect stab strength, you're actually making blockade runners useful outside of 0.0.
With ships appearing 50km away from the gate, you no longer have the ability to drop a bubble at the entrance, or park with multiple 20km scrambles on the gate. At this point, you still have to maybe deal with sniping camps... which is possibly combated by the last change: the brief sig radius bonus after decloaking. This change, while not completely necessary, will still help move the camp away from the entrance.
The most important change, by far, is removing bookmarks as we know them. By removing bookmarks, you can completely redefine life in eve. This will touch all walks of life... Combat, and carebear alike. In addition to simply relieving thousands to millions of database entries for bookmarks, it gives being present in hostile territory some actual meaning.
-By removing instas, you make it possible for alliances to actually secure their borders, if they so chose to protect them.
-By removing instas, you make it necessary for slow moving vessels to work together with faster ones in order to cover many jumps quickly. (This will change the current freighter trade-blitz culture as well.)
-By removing safespots, it becomes possible for competent players to actively hunt for prey that is on the run, and give them a real chance to catch them. And it forces the players being hunted to actually fear idling.
-Without safespots, probes need to change to be more useful in general, and be more useful for catching people who choose to log out in space. POS's are your true only "safe spots" now.
These changes don't reduce the effectiveness of a gate camp. In fact, they make gate camping more effective than ever. Howver, by providing possible escapes to a camp, it will definately require a more rounded, better organized force if the plan is to catch all comers.
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coldplasma
Killson Corp
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: coldplasma on 08/08/2006 22:31:20
Removing bookmarks also means removing safe spots. Insta's also won't be removed, people will get ****ed if they can't get from A to B. Nice one.
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AIIIIIR |
5hakey
The Led Zeppelins
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:31:00 -
[3]
No!
Firstly, eve pvp doesn't just revolve around gatecamps. Secondly, the map information is extremely useful. Try looking beyong average pilots in space or ships killed, try looking at jumpes in last hour between neighbouring systems nd stuff like that. Thirdly, low sec is not safe, and should be made to be, if anything, more dangerous imho.
So if u wanna experience pvp, try looking beyond the gates, believe me it doesnt start and end at them. And if you wanna avoid gatecamps, either use the map to its full effect, or simply dont visit lowsec.
Cryin' won't help you, Prayin' will do you no good |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:31:00 -
[4]
Heh good luck with this, the flames shall ensue. you goto realize most of the people who expected REAL pvp in eve and piloting matter in combat have long gone, what is left are the players who think gate camping is fun and that it take massif skills and extreme courage... these are the people you need to convince that gate camping is a sign of how broken eve is and you know what? THEY DISAGREE 
Any changes would be welcome but your changes don;t solve gate camping jsut chang ethe dynamics of it ,and you wont get away with just stabs tryin to haul ass in from 50km lol. I mean you can travel outside the bubble and warp, problem is they load up with dps and you cannot surive long enough most times to get out of the bubble now try to imagine needing to travel 50km instead of 15km to get away hahah.
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Deja Thoris
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:32:00 -
[5]
Put bluntly, your ideas suck.
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coldplasma
Killson Corp
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:33:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Deja Thoris
Put bluntly, your ideas suck.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
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AIIIIIR |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:34:00 -
[7]
"So if u wanna experience pvp, try looking beyond the gates, believe me it doesnt start and end at them. And if you wanna avoid gatecamps, either use the map to its full effect, or simply dont visit lowsec."
HEh not exactly alot of pvp in high sec space... Personally I have trouble beleiving you that much pvp occurs beyond gates, literally 90% of the pvp i see occurs at gates the rest occurs at belts where people gank miners and ratters...beyond that there is little pvp in eve except fleet battles which are an entirely different story.
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Ching Chongchang
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Any changes would be welcome but your changes don;t solve gate camping jsut chang ethe dynamics of it ,and you wont get away with just stabs tryin to haul ass in from 50km lol. I mean you can travel outside the bubble and warp, problem is they load up with dps and you cannot surive long enough most times to get out of the bubble now try to imagine needing to travel 50km instead of 15km to get away hahah.
I never said I was solving gate camping. The whole point of this post is to change the dynamics of it. And at no point did I say you will you have to haul ass anywhere from 50km. You still warp to objets at 15km. The only time you are 50km from anything is when you decloak from the gate you just came through.
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coldplasma
Killson Corp
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
"So if u wanna experience pvp, try looking beyond the gates, believe me it doesnt start and end at them. And if you wanna avoid gatecamps, either use the map to its full effect, or simply dont visit lowsec."
HEh not exactly alot of pvp in high sec space... Personally I have trouble beleiving you that much pvp occurs beyond gates, literally 90% of the pvp i see occurs at gates the rest occurs at belts where people gank miners and ratters...beyond that there is little pvp in eve except fleet battles which are an entirely different story.
Have you ever been in a 200 man fleet battle? 100 a side, pure madness. The crazy thing is there are much bigger battles happening all the time.
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See you in 0.0 kids... |
5hakey
The Led Zeppelins
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:41:00 -
[10]
Empire wars, belt piracy, fleet battles, station skrmishes. Theres a whole multitude of arenas where pvp occurs in eve, it just seem you keep getting blown up at the gates.
Oh nd btw, I dnt gatecamp 
Cryin' won't help you, Prayin' will do you no good |
Kernel Dagger
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:43:00 -
[11]
Originally by: coldplasma
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
"So if u wanna experience pvp, try looking beyond the gates, believe me it doesnt start and end at them. And if you wanna avoid gatecamps, either use the map to its full effect, or simply dont visit lowsec."
HEh not exactly alot of pvp in high sec space... Personally I have trouble beleiving you that much pvp occurs beyond gates, literally 90% of the pvp i see occurs at gates the rest occurs at belts where people gank miners and ratters...beyond that there is little pvp in eve except fleet battles which are an entirely different story.
Have you ever been in a 200 man fleet battle? 100 a side, pure madness. The crazy thing is there are much bigger battles happening all the time.
Aside from having nothing to do with the topic at hand, 200 ship fleet battles hardly count as pvp. It's just a fancier, laggier way to waste your ships and your time. I appreciate that that's a good way to churn through alot of ships and keep the economy rolling, but it's an extremely shallow way to approach the whole pvp experience given the depth of opportunities afforded by all that Eve has to offer.
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coldplasma
Killson Corp
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kernel Dagger
Aside from having nothing to do with the topic at hand, 200 ship fleet battles hardly count as pvp
Your credibility has now been reduced to nothing more than the size of a frozen corpse.
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See you in 0.0 kids... |
Ching Chongchang
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Posted - 2006.08.08 23:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: coldplasma
Originally by: Kernel Dagger
Aside from having nothing to do with the topic at hand, 200 ship fleet battles hardly count as pvp
Your credibility has now been reduced to nothing more than the size of a frozen corpse.
Considering that nothing you have said in this thread has hinted at any degree of reading comprehension on your part, I'm not sure I am too concerned about what you think of my credibility.
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coldplasma
Killson Corp
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.08 23:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ching Chongchang
Originally by: coldplasma
Originally by: Kernel Dagger
Aside from having nothing to do with the topic at hand, 200 ship fleet battles hardly count as pvp
Your credibility has now been reduced to nothing more than the size of a frozen corpse.
Considering that nothing you have said in this thread has hinted at any degree of reading comprehension on your part, I'm not sure I am too concerned about what you think of my credibility.
Oh I'm sorry if I'm not up to your standards of 'reading comprehension', but the 'possible changes' you have suggested are purely wrapped around you, designed only for your own benefit. Did you not think about the rest of the EVE universe that considers gate camping and insta use as an integral part of the game?
Sure, insta's and such may seem lame to you, but there are already plenty of ways to counter their use.
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See you in 0.0 kids... |
Nicholas Barker
Caldari
Rampage Eternal
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Posted - 2006.08.08 23:32:00 -
[15]
50km from gate? atleast if i was 15km i could try to tank and mwd to the gate before dying, if it's 50km people will just want 50km bubbles. Making the chance of survival less.
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Xelios and his uber skillz |
Militis Kolosok
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.08 23:36:00 -
[16]
Removing bookmarks does not solve anything as safe spots and mining locations would be gone also.
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Sfynx
The Arrow Project
The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.08.08 23:47:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sfynx on 08/08/2006 23:51:52
Edited by: Sfynx on 08/08/2006 23:48:02
Originally by: Kernel Dagger
-By removing instas, you make it necessary for slow moving vessels to work together with faster ones in order to cover many jumps quickly. (This will change the current freighter trade-blitz culture as well.)
It will change for sure. No one will want to do a freighter op anymore since it would be required to take a day off to do it. You can have faster ships next to it, but that won't speed up its approaching ;)
edit: nvm... I forgot you can of course put an inty 11 km behind the gate as a living insta bookmark... I need sleep.
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Guillame Herschel
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Posted - 2006.08.09 00:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kernel Dagger
-By removing instas, you make it necessary for slow moving vessels to work together with faster ones in order to cover many jumps quickly. (This will change the current freighter trade-blitz culture as well.)
No it won't. The frieghter pilot will just logon an alt, station the alt 13km beyond the gate, and warp to him, which lands the freighter right on the gate, same as before. All this will do is make more people create alts, and log them on at the same time as their main. More lag, can't wait.
Quote:
-By removing safespots, it becomes possible for competent players to actively hunt for prey that is on the run, and give them a real chance to catch them. And it forces the players being hunted to actually fear idling.
I've been busted at a safe spot, idling. It's totally doable, and skilled players can do it astonishingly quickly.
Quote:
-Without safespots, probes need to change to be more useful in general, and be more useful for catching people who choose to log out in space. POS's are your true only "safe spots" now.
Nah. I'll just warp around from planet to belt to planet, at varying distances. You'll need a tackler at every warpable object to catch me.
Quote:
These changes don't reduce the effectiveness of a gate camp. In fact, they make gate camping more effective than ever. Howver, by providing possible escapes to a camp, it will definately require a more rounded, better organized force if the plan is to catch all comers.
I never met a gate camp that patience and timing was unable to bust through. People who get caught at gate camps are just in too much of a hurry.
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Price Watcher
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Posted - 2006.08.09 01:18:00 -
[19]
If you want to take the bookmarks out, then full strength T2 gate and station guns must be implemented galaxy-wide, including 0.0.
Without bookmarks the game would be everything for griefers and nothing for honest players and shortly griefers would be the only ones paying for accounts.
The servers would shut down pretty soon after that as there are not enough griefers to keep the game running without honest players.
Earth First! We will strip-mine the other planets later. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:01:00 -
[20]
The current insta system sucks.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Terraform
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.09 08:01:00 -
[21]
solve gatecamping? increase sentry-damage and range by 500% so they can't be tanked and can't be sniped. Yea... this will probably make people cry (again).
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Alliaanna Dalaii
Gallente
Does Not Compute
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Posted - 2006.08.09 08:04:00 -
[22]
Ive got about 14 ship kills, 3 ransoms and a couple of pods in the last 2 nights ive played.
NONE of which where at gates/stations 
So I guesse your theory and idea suck, eh ?
Alliaanna
DNC Treasure Hunt !!
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Alliaanna Dalaii
Gallente
Does Not Compute
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Posted - 2006.08.09 08:09:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Alliaanna Dalaii on 09/08/2006 08:10:05
Double post 
Lions go RooooAaaAaAaRRRrrRrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Alliaanna
DNC Treasure Hunt !!
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.09 08:11:00 -
[24]
I, for one, find your ideas interesting, but wonder if there was a policy change while I was gone whereby all insta-related topics are now put in General Discussion rather than Features and Ideas Discussion.
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Boonaki
Caldari
Suffoco Noctis
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.08.09 08:17:00 -
[25]
How about making bubbles work in low sec, have the sentries shoot at the bubble. To keep it alive you must shield/armor xfer it?
Fear the Ibis of doom! |
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