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XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:12:00 -
[1]
ive recently begun training sheild skills and i have found that sheild tanking is about a million time better than armour tanking, and that the ships are all wrong and weird.
Caldari= missiles= click and shoot= no speed needed. amarr= guns= get close, orbit hit. needs speed and manuverability. armour tank= slows ur ship= guns harder to use, need more pg= caldari get automatic advantage sheild tank= less pg req= better missile launchers= more dps + a gd tank + ecm + gankage
so answer me this, and dont say " its balanced" cus its not why is it that caldari get the advantage of not needing manuverability yet they get sheilds, and amarr/ gallente get slower manuverability and we get armour... imho i think the sheild/ armour thing is wrong way round. guns need speed missiles need nothing. EXPLAIN! i like fire signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

Admiral Pelleon
Caldari United Territories Space Command
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:16:00 -
[2]
Caldari ships are weak at fleet. No alpha strike at range.
Shield tanks usually are stronger, however caldari ships don't have the same DPS output of another race. (within reason)
I like muffins too. However that has absolutly nothing to do with this topic. I'm sorry. _______________________________________________
* United Territories Space Command *
I fly a Succubus. Big ugly ships are no fun at all. :D |

BlackDragonShadow
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:23:00 -
[3]
Now I'm Caldari and Caldari speced i.e. shield tanking and missiles. However one thing that is kind of annoying is that armor tankers can repair damage faster in combat. And that bullets can't be shot out of the air on top of that is the fact that bullets can do wrecking damage.
I will say that the races are very well balanced however no one builds their ships to counter missiles.
That being said the two things that I find I really love about the Caldari is that when I shield tank the enemy has to get past my shield and my armor and my hull to kill me where as with an armor tank once the armor is gone they have to leave right away.
Also with missiles while they can't shoot the furthest they can shoot pretty far and do the same ammount of damage from 5m to 160KM (With skills trained of course).
As I've said the races are balance you just have to know how to work your race. The Caldari are EVE's "Easy Mode."
Touched by his noodly appendage.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster |

XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:23:00 -
[4]
^^ u rock  signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:26:00 -
[5]
i just thought, they should have armour peircing rounds like they reduce the enamys resistance by 5% or what ever sumthing really stupid and small and some sort of sheild version signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:27:00 -
[6]
if i made a rax with a sheild tank... would that make it uber leet? cus its got speed drones tank and guns? signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

Eximius Josari
Shadow Reavers
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow However one thing that is kind of annoying is that armor tankers can repair damage faster in combat.
O RLY?
Victory is the weakness of the enemy. |

BlackDragonShadow
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow However one thing that is kind of annoying is that armor tankers can repair damage faster in combat.
O RLY?
Yeah I'm pretty sure...
Touched by his noodly appendage.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster |

Negative Nancy
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:33:00 -
[9]
Repair over time using active tanking is the exact same. Passive shield tanking, well, IDK, but the shields also have a natural regen rate, so I guess you would have to add that on to the repair/time. Um...I guess that means shields repair faster. -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Chadawahee
Originally by: Neprox What is wow?
wow is what you say when you start up eve for the first time
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow However one thing that is kind of annoying is that armor tankers can repair damage faster in combat.
O RLY?
They can repair armor damage faster than a shield tank can. ;)
(I'm hilarious, I know)
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Eximius Josari
Shadow Reavers
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow However one thing that is kind of annoying is that armor tankers can repair damage faster in combat.
O RLY?
Yeah I'm pretty sure...
Single LArmor Rep II before skills: 53.33 hp/s
Single XL Shield Booster II: 120 hp/s
Single LArmor Rep II after skills: 71.11 hp/s
Victory is the weakness of the enemy. |

Eximius Josari
Shadow Reavers
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Testicular Testes
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow However one thing that is kind of annoying is that armor tankers can repair damage faster in combat.
O RLY?
They can repair armor damage faster than a shield tank can. ;)
(I'm hilarious, I know)
But he didn't specify 
Victory is the weakness of the enemy. |

XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:36:00 -
[13]
sheilds are better end of story u put 9 mil sp or what ever the max is in sheilds and what ever the max is in armour and those sheilds arnt guna break any time soon... signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

Captain Dragotahl
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:37:00 -
[14]
ok by DESIGN shields are meants to take a lot of damamge over a short period of times. Wheres armor tanks are meant to tank less damage but last for longer engagements. An apoc for example can run its tank nonstop with guns blazzing indefinately, but a raven with an equal amount of hp tanked cant hold that tank forever because cap will die. Now this doesnt mean that shield tanks cant be held indefinately, but it does mean that shield tankers cant keep their best tank running nonstop. Shield tanks are extremely cap sensative, and anyone who thinks that one is better then the other obviously doesnt have enough experience with either to know the difference. The only thing that I think is a little bit off balance is the amount of skills it takes for pure shield tanks to train up in comparison to the armor tankers out there, but the skills given to shield tankers were meant to balance it a bit since people were whining about amar ships being able to hold their tanks indefinately. I swear people dont remember things from the past if they seriously believe Caldari ships are so overpowered. This game is more balanced now then it has ever been, and I know ive been playing from the beginning.
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Hub Quantum
Dark Synergy Inc. Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:39:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Hub Quantum on 09/08/2006 02:38:46
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Caldari ships are weak at fleet. No alpha strike at range.
Shield tanks usually are stronger, however caldari ships don't have the same DPS output of another race. (within reason)
I like muffins too. However that has absolutly nothing to do with this topic. I'm sorry.
Um Caldari ships positively wreck at fleet battles. Thats why the scorpion is the primary target in any fleet battle, it's not because its "weak" its because it can tie up 2-3 BS without blinking. Moreover, the rokh is also on the plate... which is about to be the flagship of fleet damage.
You mean "missile boats" which all the races have, even the amarr.
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XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Captain Dragotahl ok by DESIGN shields are meants to take a lot of damamge over a short period of times. Wheres armor tanks are meant to tank less damage but last for longer engagements. An apoc for example can run its tank nonstop with guns blazzing indefinately, but a raven with an equal amount of hp tanked cant hold that tank forever because cap will die. Now this doesnt mean that shield tanks cant be held indefinately, but it does mean that shield tankers cant keep their best tank running nonstop. Shield tanks are extremely cap sensative, and anyone who thinks that one is better then the other obviously doesnt have enough experience with either to know the difference. The only thing that I think is a little bit off balance is the amount of skills it takes for pure shield tanks to train up in comparison to the armor tankers out there, but the skills given to shield tankers were meant to balance it a bit since people were whining about amar ships being able to hold their tanks indefinately. I swear people dont remember things from the past if they seriously believe Caldari ships are so overpowered. This game is more balanced now then it has ever been, and I know ive been playing from the beginning.
its not so much the fact that they do differnt things thats the issue... u can passive tank sheilds to the moon anyway if u get the bs with the lowest sheild regen time and then passive sheild tank it, thats guna take a while longer to kill than an apoc + apoc cant kill buggerall cus they are amarr... who suck signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:42:00 -
[17]
+ almost all sheilds require 1 mod and thats EM resistance which only takes 1 mod to do but armour needs about 3 to make it worth the hastle which means u have more room for the pancakes as a sheild tank signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

Captain Dragotahl
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Posted - 2006.08.09 02:55:00 -
[18]
again it all depends on what your doing and what your setting up for. Saying that amarr cant kill stuff and they suck is nonsense. Amarr are just as viable a race type as an any. Ive flown both types and can say from experience that your amar ships and tanks are going ot be a lot better when fighting certain npc's over caldari ships any day. And the same goes for pvp. Certain races are built to take down other race types and therefore are most effective. One race cant equally fight every other race, and it should be able to. If you think im wrong try taking a cerb against are friendly zealot and say goodbye to 230 mil. Caldari and shields have their benifits but so do their counterparts. Im glad that its not possible to fight every type of ship and every type of race equally with any race you choose. You have to study and know every race and every type to know what your going to run again and how you want to fight them before hand. Your best pvpers, npc hunters, you name it, know their oponents just as well as they know themselves.
Oh and saying that caldari only need to put an EM hardner on is dumb. With just that hardner on your gonna get killed by any vertern, especially veteran Raven pilots who know to use Exp in pvp.
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XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:01:00 -
[19]
still think its round the wrong way cus guns = dot and armour= survival of dot
where as missiles= huge dps slow rof and sheilds= huge sheilding over short time... so doesnt that mean sheilds are tanked at missiles and armour is tanked at guns? and i know u can change things around using mods nd stuff but for the base stats signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

Benglada
Central Defiance
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow However one thing that is kind of annoying is that armor tankers can repair damage faster in combat.
O RLY?
Yeah I'm pretty sure...
Single LArmor Rep II before skills: 53.33 hp/s
Single XL Shield Booster II: 120 hp/s
Single LArmor Rep II after skills: 71.11 hp/s
GOGO GADGET COMPARE CAP USAGE (im to lazy) ---------------------------
Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote.. 
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XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:09:00 -
[21]
with high sheild skills the cap use is about the same over time signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

Eximius Josari
Shadow Reavers
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Benglada
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow However one thing that is kind of annoying is that armor tankers can repair damage faster in combat.
O RLY?
Yeah I'm pretty sure...
Single LArmor Rep II before skills: 53.33 hp/s
Single XL Shield Booster II: 120 hp/s
Single LArmor Rep II after skills: 71.11 hp/s
GOGO GADGET COMPARE CAP USAGE (im to lazy)
XL Booster II: 72 cap/s
LArmor Rep II: 35.55 cap/s
Victory is the weakness of the enemy. |

Captain Dragotahl
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:15:00 -
[23]
lololol please tell me you did not just say that it was the same cap usage with both. Man i have both types with all skills at level 5 and im telling you shields take about double the amount of cap.
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XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:21:00 -
[24]
yah but they heal about double in half the time and since ur moaning about active tanking... use a passive 1 and u get speed + tank + fire power signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

Linavin
Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:22:00 -
[25]
Actually with the associated skills a shield tank is more cap efficent than an armor tank. The fact that an Apoc is better at sustaining its tank than a Raven is due to the ship, not the type of tank.
But as far as the claim that armor tank = slows your ship is simply ignorant. The only part of an armor tank that can reduce your speed at all are plates, and even then youre likley to expirience only a 10-20 m/sec reduction with an ab, which is totaly negligable when using your guns is concerned. The fact that plates increas your mass is Completly Negligable except with oversized plates on an intie which is invalid because the intie is not actually 'tanking' and because even caldari inties used plates. ---
Originally by: Boris A I found the rock music button!
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XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Linavin Actually with the associated skills a shield tank is more cap efficent than an armor tank. The fact that an Apoc is better at sustaining its tank than a Raven is due to the ship, not the type of tank.
But as far as the claim that armor tank = slows your ship is simply ignorant. The only part of an armor tank that can reduce your speed at all are plates, and even then youre likley to expirience only a 10-20 m/sec reduction with an ab, which is totaly negligable when using your guns is concerned. The fact that plates increas your mass is Completly Negligable except with oversized plates on an intie which is invalid because the intie is not actually 'tanking' and because even caldari inties used plates.
wheres the off button? 
but sheild tanking seems to be alot easier from what ive seen over last coupla weeks signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |

Captain Dragotahl
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:27:00 -
[27]
yes the heal amount is double, thus enforcing my ORIGINAL point. CCP made shield tanking to be a better tank over a SHORT period time. So in a gang fight if you get agro you can last longer then an apoc can so that your friends can take down the people attacking you. Armor tanking heals less, but is viable for a long term engagement. Each has their own benifits AND strenths. The fact that the shield tank cant be held indefinately like a armor tank can makes ALL caldari ships weak for long engagements when ships can tank your dps. If you cant get the dps to take down your opponent fast your going to lose since your tank wont last as long as theres. Which is the point since caldari ships have low dps in comparison. Its all in balance.
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Eilie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:28:00 -
[28]
OMG, Not another one of these threads... 
Please see this thread for my explanation of how they are balanced! 
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Linavin
Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Captain Dragotahl yes the heal amount is double, thus enforcing my ORIGINAL point. CCP made shield tanking to be a better tank over a SHORT period time. So in a gang fight if you get agro you can last longer then an apoc can so that your friends can take down the people attacking you. Armor tanking heals less, but is viable for a long term engagement. Each has their own benifits AND strenths. The fact that the shield tank cant be held indefinately like a armor tank can makes ALL caldari ships weak for long engagements when ships can tank your dps. If you cant get the dps to take down your opponent fast your going to lose since your tank wont last as long as theres. Which is the point since caldari ships have low dps in comparison. Its all in balance.
You don't know what your talking about. With skills shield tanking is more cap efficent than an armor tank. Along with the fact that a shield booster with an amp boosts more per second than a double rep tank make shield tanking better than a equivalent double rep tank. To repeat, a focused shield tank is both more cap efficent and repairs more hps/sec than an equivalent focused armor tank. Shield tanking is better for both short term engagements and tanking oriented long fights. The fact that an armor tank is more sustainable on an apoc or armor tanker than a shield tank on a caldari ship is due to differences in the ship, not the tank. Shield tanking is Superior ---
Originally by: Boris A I found the rock music button!
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Clone runner
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Posted - 2006.08.09 03:57:00 -
[30]
dont forget that the sheild equiv (ivunerability field?) of an ernergized adaptive nano has better resist bonus aswell 
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