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Chan Man
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Posted - 2006.08.10 19:52:00 -
[31]
Good idea I think the fee should be based on how old you are (character wise). for older ppl it sould be 10 mil a pop to dock n launch, 40 mil a pop to jump. The fee for jumping should be multiplied aginst the system security lvl. docking and undocking fees should be multipied aginst the age of the character. If you're 1 day old then its 100k, 2 day old 200k and so on. the fees should also be further multiplied aginst your character sec rating. If you are -10, then it cost you 500 mil to dock or undock and twice that to jump from system to system. This is an outstanding plan M8, i like your way of thinking. where were you when they first created this game. 
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Nicholai Pestot
Gallente
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.10 20:04:00 -
[32]
I fully endorse docking fees based on ship type, with a scailing that favours traders (low costs for industrial ships).
As long as CCP gives us better POS functionality for refining and recycling loot.
/me strokes his POS
________________
What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete |
Olexia
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Posted - 2006.08.10 21:50:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Alexi Borizkova
Secondly, lost ships is not truly an isk sink. Players mined the minerals, were paid for hte minerals by the builder, the ship was built, and the person losing it recieved an insurance payout. Actually, isk ENTERS the game when a dread is lost.
When the term "isk sink" is used it is not referrign to wanting your personal walelt t ogo down, really, it isn't about loss of isk from your personal one woman economy. it is about the grand scheme.
Every day out in 0.0 billions of isk enters the game from thin air via rat bounties. Mission rewards bonuses and bounties likely account for even more.
This is isk that just magically enters circulation. When you spend it, it goes to the pocket of another player, who spends it. it doesn't magically dissapear.
The issue is that over time, if enough isk enters the economy it becomes devalued. This is called "inflation".
The idea behind the isk sink is to have money leaving the economy, permanently. This has to be done in an amount sizeable enough to offset the massive amounts entering daily. POS fuel components and towers helps, sure, but.... Just looking at the numbers of one man rating in 0.0, it makes me worried about the amount of isk in circulation.
you have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
isk enters game only from 4 places:
1. bounties
2. insurance (i'd say generally for PVPers, for mission runners is prolly an isk sink)
3. agent rewards
4. selling to NPCs - stuff leaves game
'stuff' enters game from:
1. loot
2. mining
3. agent rewards
4. buying from NPC - isk leaves game
isk and 'stuff' exit game:
1. taxes (for isk) production or refining ineficeinces (for 'stuff')
2. destroyed /consumed stuff
3. insurance
so a dread destroyed is an isk sink, as it is any ship destroyed, any implant or clone lost.
I don't need to hear from you what is a isk sink needed for. Nor do I need to hear what inflation does.
I was asking on what basis do you claim that 'more isk sink are needed'. Do you have any data to justify your claims? Have you heard any DEV being worried about this?
I don't necessarely disagree but on the data we have at this time I can claim just as well that there are too many isk sinks (just to be clear- I don't).
I can't see inflation on the market. On some products the prices decreased a lot, you can buy billions of T1 stuff for less than the production price, minerals decreased a lot in the last months. On more usefull stuff the price stayed the same in the last period. There are products hugely overpriced but this is not necessarly because of the excess money inflation: a price can increase because of the scarcity of the product (ie T2 items), because of market colusion and monopolies (T2 again), because an item is very used /usefull (Cerberus, T2 shield stuff, T2 drones, T2 BCU, T2 etc, some faction items).
If you have time this might be a good read http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html you'll see EVE managed to overcome a lot of these problems.
In a game like EVE where things get destroyed fast it might be quite easy for CCP to keep inflation in leash.
As long as items keep getting destroyed at a constant rate there will be no inflation. As much as you may not like it as long as the pirates and wars exists and have targets you shouldn't worry about inflation in EVE. I hate to say it but really one DEV was right: PvPer are the 'heroes' of EVE, they keep the economy running smoothly.
So , at least I have some data to claim there is no inflation... but I don't want to do this. I just don't understand the constant whining, the miriad of solutions targeted to nonproblems and the fact that you base your entire foundation on nothing more than words pulled from i don't know where: 'more isk sink are needed'... let's hammer the database with as much useless stuff we can think of.
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Olexia
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Posted - 2006.08.10 21:53:00 -
[34]
Chan Man FTW
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.08.10 21:57:00 -
[35]
I think they should introduce a rule to ban people like you from the forum - people who are so illiterate that they write "new" when they actually mean "my new idea."
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Sonos SAGD
Minmatar
Its a Secret to Everybody
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Posted - 2006.08.10 22:43:00 -
[36]
and what happens if you cant offord to dock or to jump and you are stuck in space with no ammo ?
they would have to sel destruct to get isk to dock
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I lost 5 sp of skill trainning time during the last patch an i demand that ccp refund it to me |
tORNFISH
Caldari
ZiTek
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.11 00:44:00 -
[37]
hmmm intersting post this think i will sit on the FENCE not to sure i want to encorage ccp to start taxing us all even thow i could be done in some very intresting ways
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Sul Sonic
Caldari
Viper Intel Squad
Pure.
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Posted - 2006.08.11 00:47:00 -
[38]
how about no.
I like docking in stations and not having to pay for it.
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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.08.11 01:06:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Chan Man
[sarcasm]Good idea I think the fee should be based on how old you are (character wise). for older ppl it sould be 10 mil a pop to dock n launch, 40 mil a pop to jump. The fee for jumping should be multiplied aginst the system security lvl. docking and undocking fees should be multipied aginst the age of the character. If you're 1 day old then its 100k, 2 day old 200k and so on. the fees should also be further multiplied aginst your character sec rating. If you are -10, then it cost you 500 mil to dock or undock and twice that to jump from system to system. This is an outstanding plan M8, i like your way of thinking. where were you when they first created this game. [/sarcasm]
You forgot something so I added it. Fixed.
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Win a Cynabal for 10ml!!! |
CB Cyrix
GeoTech
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Posted - 2006.08.11 08:41:00 -
[40]
If it was scaled on standing then pirates would have to pay alot to dock, but its all relative.
Scaled on ship type means that noobs wouldnt pay alot really, and if it was known with a undocking popup:
"Warning, you are about to undock from station, this will require a docking fee to enter again."
Or something, hay its just an idea.
Docking fees are one of them isk sinks that would make people want to earn isk to live, which a mining ship dont have to do, just mine and refine. 100% Profit, no running costs.
Its the running cost of docking and jumping that needs to be added, it will give some living costs that we should really have for every player.
-Taking his YARR Pills Since 2003-
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CB Cyrix
GeoTech
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Posted - 2006.08.11 08:42:00 -
[41]
Edited by: CB Cyrix on 11/08/2006 08:45:07
Originally by: Sonos SAGD
and what happens if you cant offord to dock or to jump and you are stuck in space with no ammo ?
they would have to sel destruct to get isk to dock
Kill rats, or if its a 0.9 or 1.0 then there are no fees.
Its more to highlight running costs, even if there were some stations that were free in random systems, if your stuck in a 0.5 with zero isk then you 'could' be stuck, sure, but maybe it could introduce a small overdraft to isk, like 250k or something, ONLY used for docking/jumping fees.
Then if they want to buy stuff they better get back into positive numbers.
-Taking his YARR Pills Since 2003-
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Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2006.08.11 09:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: CB Cyrix
Docking fees are one of them isk sinks that would make people want to earn isk to live, which a mining ship dont have to do, just mine and refine. 100% Profit, no running costs.
Why does everything need to have running costs? Lets compare:
Activity 1: Each unit of activity costs you 100 isk to perform, and you get paid 200 isk for the finished unit. You make 100 isk per unit
Activity 2: Each unit of activity is free to perform, and you get paid 100 isk for the finished unit. You make 100 isk per unit.
You can't make any more with activity 2 than activity 1, so why does activity 2 need a running cost added?
But lets see what happen if you add a 100isk running cost to Activity 2, to "balance" it with Activity 1.
No-one's going to do Activity 2 if they still only get paid 100 isk, so the output of that activity is going to increase in price. In order to get back to the same volume of activity there was before, Activity 2 would end up paying 200isk per unit. Which is going to be bad for whoever's buing that output.
Now consider that Activity 1's running costs are buying the output of Activity 2. Because you put the running cost on activity 2, the running costs of activity 1 rise to 200isk. Again, no-ones going to bother to do activity 2 if the reward stays at 200isk, so the price of activity 1's output is going to rise to around 300isk.
You've done nothing to nerf the raw income of either activity, but have initiated a global price increase that will leave everyone worse off.
And of course, high end mining already does have a running cost though mining crystals. The difference between those and this suggestion is that paying the crystal running costs gives them increased income to offset it. This tax wouldn't.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Rashmika Clavain
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Posted - 2006.08.11 09:26:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 11/08/2006 09:27:42
Initially I was unimpressed with this idea, but docking fees for pod pilots who have a negative standing to that corp scaled upon ship type are an interesting idea.
Afterall, a corporation wouldn't want to encourage its rivals business capabilities 
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Olexia
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Posted - 2006.08.11 11:18:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CB Cyrix
Or something, hay its just an idea.
but WHY, WHY, WHY?
you just want to have an idea for the beauty of it? just to be original?
try thinking about new content if you really want something original; heck, even complaints about nerf raven or nerf caldari are more constructive.
if we really need so bad an isk sink just reduce the damn loot or bounty with 1-5%. It will make more of an impact and less stress on the database and anything.
so again: WHY?
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CB Cyrix
GeoTech
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Posted - 2006.08.11 13:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Olexia
Originally by: CB Cyrix
Or something, hay its just an idea.
but WHY, WHY, WHY?
so again: WHY?
Why not?
-Taking his YARR Pills Since 2003-
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Olexia
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Posted - 2006.08.11 14:58:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Olexia on 11/08/2006 15:00:56
Originally by: CB Cyrix
Why not?
I just told you but here you go again:
- we don't know if more isk sinks are needed;
- it is less usefull as an isk sink, it is faster/better to reduce the inputs, if really economy is in pain;
- it just adds to the database transactions.
and the most important problem I have with this idea is expressed again in your last post: "Why not?"
You propose something, that doesn't add anything constructive to the game play and that doesn't fix anything, just because "why not?" 
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Asharin
Caldari
DN EVE Chapter
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Posted - 2006.08.11 15:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: CB Cyrix
We all pay rent for our houses, so why dont we in eve? (im not talking about storage rent like offices or hangers) Im talking cost of living.
Actually I own my house and the land it's on
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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.08.11 16:02:00 -
[48]
If all the isk goes into my wallet...
/signed
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Win a Cynabal for 10ml!!! |
Dr Slaughter
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.11 16:05:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CB Cyrix
Edited by: CB Cyrix on 10/08/2006 16:06:08
I think we should introduce a small docking fee to ALL empire stations that are NPC owned. Much like the 0.0 fee's that are in place.
This will introduce a earn to survive aspect to the game, and will make players who just float around, need to earn some isk to dock.
The amounts are minimal to a normal player, BUT it will mean that doing your day to day jobs require isk. Rather than the 100% profit that some jobs have.
We all pay rent for our houses, so why dont we in eve? (im not talking about storage rent like offices or hangers) Im talking cost of living.
After all the market is taxed, so this should be taxed too. Not skill related, scale the amount of standings and ship type/size.
This could also work for jump gates, meaning HUGE ships light freighters should pay a conjection charge on highway systems. It will make smaller traders not gimped but the large traders who are killing the trade have to pay to jump that fat ship.
Dont just flame NO NO NO, give reasons and keep this clean and mature.
Your comments?
-- select * FROM posts (nolock) where clue > 0 --
0 rows returned
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Olexia
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Posted - 2006.08.11 16:29:00 -
[50]
...and when we die the char dies for good and you need to make another one
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