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Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
66
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Posted - 2014.10.04 15:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since we are geting giant change to how we move in eve now, i think it's safe to buff titans back to make the usful on grid again.
So they will deal normal damage to sub caps and, to be good on grid dps platform again, Supers and caps will be mostly on local use, so let's make them usful .... like the awsome buff to mother ships.
Now it's time to Bring Titans back to been Giant Space Dic* insted of Giant Space Vagin*s ....
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Rage Arjar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.10.04 15:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
No one is sure how caps and super caps are gonna be used post patch; and since the patch is mainly based around long range movement, changing a specific ship's combat capabilities isn't a good idea. Also, buffing titan guns up to what they were pre-nerf is just a plain bad idea, tracking titans will pop back up and retake their place as the apex weapon. That isn't to say that they woun't need changes, it's just that change is a bad one, and now isn't the time for it. |
Nariya Kentaya
The Pulsar Innovation Surely You're Joking
1564
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Posted - 2014.10.04 15:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
I personally find it funny how restricted and weak supers are for ebing, well, supers. theres no terrifying feeling of dread when they are on field, because 90% of the time, theyll never be able to target your smaller ship.
However, until we start seeing these ships die en masse, they simply provide too much force multiplication to be buffed extensively. |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
70
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Posted - 2014.10.04 17:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:I personally find it funny how restricted and weak supers are for ebing, well, supers. theres no terrifying feeling of dread when they are on field, because 90% of the time, theyll never be able to target your smaller ship.
However, until we start seeing these ships die en masse, they simply provide too much force multiplication to be buffed extensively.
Eaven so, it's years of skill points, it's a coffin, cost like a good 80 BIL to build it and it can't kill sub caps aaaand not huge jump nerf and you have to use gates like other ships.
oh boy, they shpuld be able to defend the self ... no one is sayin infinite tracking. just basic normal one ... |
Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.10.04 20:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:I personally find it funny how restricted and weak supers are for ebing, well, supers. theres no terrifying feeling of dread when they are on field, because 90% of the time, theyll never be able to target your smaller ship.
However, until we start seeing these ships die en masse, they simply provide too much force multiplication to be buffed extensively. Eaven so, it's years of skill points, it's a coffin, cost like a good 80 BIL to build it and it can't kill sub caps aaaand not huge jump nerf and you have to use gates like other ships. oh boy, they shpuld be able to defend the self ... no one is sayin infinite tracking. just basic normal one ...
so true ... its pathetic how biggest ships which are in every second game trailer are also most useless ships itself ... like: i have 15km long ship but i cant use drones, but still i have 5M ship hangar ... i have t oask myself sometimes there if this is for real or just bad joke to every sci-fi fan ...
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Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
72
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Posted - 2014.10.05 00:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
They are still very powerful tool right now, but after the patch, not much of it will be left.
Thats way they should be able to work on it's one, at least to some deegre |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1448
|
Posted - 2014.10.05 01:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maybe get some of their drones back? I can't particularly remember if toes were a major problem before. |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
210
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Posted - 2014.10.05 01:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
I disagree with tracking changes, especially since we now how well that went last time However i do agree supers and titans need SOMETHING now that makes them worth anything anymore, I don't know what but whatever it is I hope they figure it out soon.
I dont see any real use in a drone bay, since fighters and bombers belong to carriers and super carriers, and heavy drones or even geckos dont add much to what a titan can do, although being able to launch EC-900's to jam off hictors in low sec would be invaluable.
Maybe give them something similar to bastion which greatly increases their ability to self tank and regenerate capacitor or something.
I dunno though im no titan pilot so my advice is probably shiet, im much more in the loop with carriers and supercarriers If you don't keep up to date on the upcoming changes, you may as well be living under a rokh.I would even Venture to say that was a good pun on my partStay beautiful o7 |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
210
|
Posted - 2014.10.05 01:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Maybe get some of their drones back? I can't particularly remember if toes were a major problem before.
It became a problem where they could literally use drones with their weapons to kill every class of ship, frigates just shooting at them for fun were butchered by light drones, cruisers were slaughtered by mediums, etc.
But honestly with all the drone changes lately maybe they should get them back, i mean titans wont be locking frigates to put drones on them so its more of a drones auto engage kind of deal. If you don't keep up to date on the upcoming changes, you may as well be living under a rokh.I would even Venture to say that was a good pun on my partStay beautiful o7 |
Austrene Kanenald
Pilots of Epic Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2014.10.05 07:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Uhm. No. That would make sub-cap attacks even harder, because titan could just sit there blapping them. Also, you say not infinite and just normal, but for guns that size, it is normal. |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
95
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Posted - 2014.10.05 11:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Eaven so, it's years of skill points, it's a coffin, cost like a good 80 BIL to build it and it can't kill sub capsoh boy, they shpuld be able to defend the self ... no one is sayin infinite tracking. just basic normal one ...
A. cost and SP are not balancing factors
B. they are fleet ships and as such are built with that in mind they don't have the on board tech to defend themselves from smaller ships because they are expected to have a fleet to support them in that.
This isn't WoW just because it's bigger costs more and you need to have more exp to fly it does not make it better then that frig you flew in your first week. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1315
|
Posted - 2014.10.05 11:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
If anything, supers should be shrinked into a decoration for the Captain's Quarter.
Not buffed. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking
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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
693
|
Posted - 2014.10.05 15:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Unbuff titan guns, need more destroyed sub-caps. Increases the demand for minerals, builds more T1 ships for fleets, alliances suddenly realize they need titans of their own, increase demand for minerals, hot and sweaty titan on titan action suddenly starts up, more demand to replace lost titans and build even more titans in paranoia....nothing wrong with a buff to the economy lubricated with the tears of whiney "Red 5" players in Rifters trying to shoot thermal vents on Titans when they assplode to another automobile sized projectile fired at them |
Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2014.10.05 21:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:This isn't WoW just because it's bigger costs more and you need to have more exp to fly it does not make it better then that frig you flew in your first week.
but it should ... whats the point of 80b ship u skill 3 years for when it cant kill ship u flew your first day of game? ... it should be more like fleets with logis should be able to beat titan, not few small ships just because he cant even touch them ... |
Ellendras Silver
The Scope Gallente Federation
150
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Posted - 2014.10.06 00:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zmikund wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:This isn't WoW just because it's bigger costs more and you need to have more exp to fly it does not make it better then that frig you flew in your first week. but it should ... whats the point of 80b ship u skill 3 years for when it cant kill ship u flew your first day of game? ... it should be more like fleets with logis should be able to beat titan, not few small ships just because he cant even touch them ...
bacause it is a fleet ship and it was never meant to fly solo Carpe noctem |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
238
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 00:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ok whether or not titans and supers were ever meant to be solo aside they still need something to make them worth the time that players spend learning to fly them and to make them worth the price tag.
I thought of 4 ideas while cooking a burger, again I can fly supers and have flown supers but cannot and probably never will be able to fly titans so here goes possibly very bad advice:
1. Titans become the only ship to fit T2 Capital weapons, nerf the T2 stats so specific ammos dont lead to uber tracking again but on the same token this VASTLY improves their damage application against other caps, particularly in low sec where doomsdays are not a viable option which gives them more combat application and thus some more worth.
2. Buff their jump range to 7.5 and bridge range to the same, incur slightly less jump fatigue but not to the point of jump freighters or rorqual stats of recovery. This allows them to bridge in a fleet, kill the target and either jump back away or get safe until they can jump away again. The fleet however may be stuck slightly longer, to avoid daisy hopping off titans as the new movement meta.
3. decrease doomsday recovery time to make it more viable when coupled with jump fatigue possibly fuel useage as well but thats nominal in most cases.
4. Buff the boosts they give to fleet members significantly, however make them only work like link modules so they cannot boost a fleet from inside a POS or while cloaked, but can still apply the bonus while in warp. For example the avatar amplifies cap regen by IIRC 5% per level? Increase it to 10% per level, make the boosts something worth jumping a titan into a fight just for those boosts. hard limit on 2 titans max applying boosts in any fleet to avoid mass dropping in titans to get all the boosts. If you don't keep up to date on the upcoming changes, you may as well be living under a rokh.I would even Venture to say that was a good pun on my partStay beautiful o7 |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.10 19:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:Ok whether or not titans and supers were ever meant to be solo aside they still need something to make them worth the time that players spend learning to fly them and to make them worth the price tag.
I thought of 4 ideas while cooking a burger, again I can fly supers and have flown supers but cannot and probably never will be able to fly titans so here goes possibly very bad advice:
1. Titans become the only ship to fit T2 Capital weapons, nerf the T2 stats so specific ammos dont lead to uber tracking again but on the same token this VASTLY improves their damage application against other caps, particularly in low sec where doomsdays are not a viable option which gives them more combat application and thus some more worth.
2. Buff their jump range to 7.5 and bridge range to the same, incur slightly less jump fatigue but not to the point of jump freighters or rorqual stats of recovery. This allows them to bridge in a fleet, kill the target and either jump back away or get safe until they can jump away again. The fleet however may be stuck slightly longer, to avoid daisy hopping off titans as the new movement meta.
3. decrease doomsday recovery time to make it more viable when coupled with jump fatigue possibly fuel useage as well but thats nominal in most cases.
4. Buff the boosts they give to fleet members significantly, however make them only work like link modules so they cannot boost a fleet from inside a POS or while cloaked, but can still apply the bonus while in warp. For example the avatar amplifies cap regen by IIRC 5% per level? Increase it to 10% per level, make the boosts something worth jumping a titan into a fight just for those boosts. hard limit on 2 titans max applying boosts in any fleet to avoid mass dropping in titans to get all the boosts.
oh boy ... nope!
the only need, is for them to hit sub caps again, rating/blap titans come back ....
make them worth looking at again! |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
73
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 10:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
bump |
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1602
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 18:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
The point isnt that Titans should be brougth back to being solo-pwnmobiles, it isnt that it should ever be solo, it isnt that it should win against subcaps easily, its that these thigns are MEANT to be flagships, the core of a fleet, something the fleet HAS to defend or risk losing a major force multiplier, at least the ability to beat A SMALL GANG OF CRUISERS should exist, as right now that small gang could just buzz around it indefinetly.
A battleship can fight a frigate, it just has to be careful, plan ahead, and be in the right position, it will be difficult, but its within the realm of possibility, right now, there is little a titan can do against a BATTLESHIP, its strictly an anti-capital ship, but with an anti-capital ability with such a cooldown adn limited target selection (single target, caps only), that its easier to just bring mass capitals to fight eachother, because they can still fight subcaps aswell. |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
73
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 08:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
times have changed, and a dread (not max dps fit) have twice the dps of a titan, and the ability to pop sub caps.
supercariers got buffed hard, but Titans didn't got any buff at all, they only got striped from the roles they were used for mostly, the brige witch can not be used as efective after the patch.
and the bombers are geting huge nerf witch is superb byff for supers, it will be much safer to use fighter drones now!
Dev's schould look at the titans too :| nerf the dmg to 75% per skill lvl and give the tracking back? |
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
433
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 09:00:32 -
[21] - Quote
Before you read my post, please understand that: 1) I've flown at least one Titan since 2007 2) I own multiple supercaps 3) I've personally built scores of supercaps for my alliance over the years
Titan weapons should not be buffed in this way
EVE does not need an I-win button, and that's precisely what Dominion Titans were. They acted as an apex force only beatable with more of the same, and with the upcoming jump changes that issue would only be exacerbated. Every ship class in EVE needs a weakness and with their high durability, Titans that are effective against battleships would counter everything able to damage them.
Do Titans need a balancing pass? Yes, absolutely. More importantly, they need a well-defined role. The idea of damage-dealer should be reconsidered in favour of ideas that support fleets. We already have a foundation for this with the strong fleet bonuses, jump portal and clone vat bay. Let's build on these and make Titans something every large fleet would find useful, but at the same time not a force solely in themselves.
If you want Titans to be exciting and useful, come up with a role more interesting than 'shoots everything'. |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 09:04:33 -
[22] - Quote
xttz wrote:Before you read my post, please understand that: 1) I've flown at least one Titan since 2007 2) I own multiple supercaps 3) I've personally built scores of supercaps for my alliance over the years
Titan weapons should not be buffed in this way
EVE does not need an I-win button, and that's precisely what Dominion Titans were. They acted as an apex force only beatable with more of the same, and with the upcoming jump changes that issue would only be exacerbated. Every ship class in EVE needs a weakness and with their high durability, Titans that are effective against battleships would counter everything able to damage them.
Do Titans need a balancing pass? Yes, absolutely. More importantly, they need a well-defined role. The idea of damage-dealer should be reconsidered in favour of ideas that support fleets. We already have a foundation for this with the strong fleet bonuses, jump portal and clone vat bay. Let's build on these and make Titans something every large fleet would find useful, but at the same time not a force solely in themselves.
If you want Titans to be exciting and useful, come up with a role more interesting than 'shoots everything'.
Thats a god point ... give them 7% per lvl for links?
make them "The Flag ship" ? |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
4679
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 12:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
xttz wrote:Before you read my post, please understand that: 1) I've flown at least one Titan since 2007 2) I own multiple supercaps 3) I've personally built scores of supercaps for my alliance over the years
Titan weapons should not be buffed in this way
EVE does not need an I-win button, and that's precisely what Dominion Titans were. They acted as an apex force only beatable with more of the same, and with the upcoming jump changes that issue would only be exacerbated. Every ship class in EVE needs a weakness and with their high durability, Titans that are effective against battleships would counter everything able to damage them.
Do Titans need a balancing pass? Yes, absolutely. More importantly, they need a well-defined role. The idea of damage-dealer should be reconsidered in favour of ideas that support fleets. We already have a foundation for this with the strong fleet bonuses, jump portal and clone vat bay. Let's build on these and make Titans something every large fleet would find useful, but at the same time not a force solely in themselves.
If you want Titans to be exciting and useful, come up with a role more interesting than 'shoots everything'.
Maybe just nerfing "shoots enything" would be sufficient? Why would you want a ship that can do a work by itself as good as 2 of them? Do everyone must train for Titan? There is a lot of fun flying other ships. Lat it be a King of Caps, but even in chess, King is not the strongest figure, rather most handicapped. Ideas to boost fun factor in Planetary Interaction. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
5004
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 12:34:10 -
[24] - Quote
xttz wrote:Before you read my post, please understand that: 1) I've flown at least one Titan since 2007 2) I own multiple supercaps 3) I've personally built scores of supercaps for my alliance over the years
Titan weapons should not be buffed in this way
EVE does not need an I-win button, and that's precisely what Dominion Titans were. They acted as an apex force only beatable with more of the same, and with the upcoming jump changes that issue would only be exacerbated. Every ship class in EVE needs a weakness and with their high durability, Titans that are effective against battleships would counter everything able to damage them.
Do Titans need a balancing pass? Yes, absolutely. More importantly, they need a well-defined role. The idea of damage-dealer should be reconsidered in favour of ideas that support fleets. We already have a foundation for this with the strong fleet bonuses, jump portal and clone vat bay. Let's build on these and make Titans something every large fleet would find useful, but at the same time not a force solely in themselves.
If you want Titans to be exciting and useful, come up with a role more interesting than 'shoots everything'.
Maybe just nerfing "shoots enything" would be sufficient? Why would you want 2 ships or even 3 ships of the same kind that can do a work by itself as good as 1 of them? Do everyone must train for Titan? There is a lot of fun flying other ships. Let it be a King of Caps, but even in chess, King is not the strongest figure, rather most handicapped, but you still have to keep it on the field to win.
Let there be a bonus to having it on the field, but not stackable, and going for a lot of same ships having the same bonuses would be unfeasible in a fleet because of price/effect ratio.
Recon makes them stronger
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Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 12:58:42 -
[25] - Quote
i think that would be cool to have this king on grid, as the ultimate comand ship, 7% pre lvl, with ratial bonuses.
Erebus skrimish and armour links etc.
they can fit links, but comand ships do it better, way not make titans the best, we have nerfer t3's allready. |
Stellar Tycoon
Krannon of Sherwood Carthage Empires
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Give Titans a +900% bonus to Large weapon damage, +100% range increase.
This is to give the titan the impression that it has a lot of guns. So 8 high slots = 80 guns.
Restrict the guns from being grouped. Only one turret module can be active per target ship, to stop them from 'Fck you butan' small ships, but gives them lots of defence vs small gangs.
This would allow them to be fielded as a large force on the battlefield for anti sub-cap. |
Stellar Tycoon
Krannon of Sherwood Carthage Empires
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:05:16 -
[27] - Quote
Give Titans a +900% bonus to Large weapon damage, +100% range increase.
This is to give the titan the impression that it has a lot of guns. So 8 high slots = 80 guns.
Restrict the guns from being grouped. Only one turret module can be active per target ship, to stop them from 'Fck you butan' small ships, but gives them lots of defence vs small gangs.
This would allow them to be fielded as a large force on the battlefield for anti sub-cap.
It would be a strong force multiplier on the field. Keep Doomsdays, but when a doomsday is fired, all weapons are on cooldown for X time (subject to balance, i dunno how DD's work tbh) |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
325
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:26:09 -
[28] - Quote
I think the most basic problem supers face is that at their very nature they are at odds with reality and are obsolete as actual military vessels. For example; IRL battleships and dreadnoughts have been phased out with the advent of missiles, and were already extremely vulnerable to airplanes; inherently large vessels like that suffer from a 'death star' problem, namely that the larger they are the larger and more apparent vulnerabilities become.
Even our largest weapons of war, aircraft carriers require an entire battle group of smaller ships fitting different roles to be around them to be relevant and effective. The only use titans have that makes them relevant is their ability to bridge fleets; sure they're the biggest guns on the block but any numbskull with half a brain and a calculator can tell you that it's more cost-effective to bring more smaller ships (if we can call dreadnoughts and battleships small) to get the job done. The reason this isn't seen more commonly is that since this is a game, pilots will always be a higher-value commodity than the ships they fly, since at the end of the day what wins a campaign is the number of people committed.
What turns the debate for capital and supercapital roles from simply a difficult problem to balance into a mind-wracking paradox is the fact that even though this game functions off of a free market, what is valued is completely opposite; there will ALWAYS be a shortage of labor in this game unlike we will ever see in real life for similar situations; inflation in the game has climbed steadily but actual value has dropped as low as it has because the biggest guns on the block, THE largest, strongest and hardest ship to get into is no more than an afterthought to the wallets in many of these power blocs and individuals. Their are no expenditures other than ship losses to cost us anything, and so at the most fundamental level, we cannot fix the superweapons we so value because they are no longer valuable. They are not monoliths of awe and wonder to behold in a battle; they are mass transit on your way to work. They are not doomsday weapons as so stated by their primary weapon; they are big guns that can take enough punishment to be useful.
Unless something is done along the lines of dramatically, MASSIVELY increasing their build costs as well as buffing their hp, damage and DD abilities, titans will likely continue their slide towards irrelevance and be as ubiquitous as any form of mass transit. |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 19:26:24 -
[29] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote: Unless something is done along the lines of dramatically, MASSIVELY increasing their build costs as well as buffing their hp, damage and DD abilities, titans will likely continue their slide towards irrelevance and be as ubiquitous as any form of mass transit.
increasing their build costs, oh boy, try to build a titan your self now, not eaven the isk, but the amout of work to haul the minerals and build the parts to make things happen, is just crazy :D
Now i see, that buffing hp / dmg / DD abilities will bring nothing good, beacuse bitter vets will abuse the **** out of.
(i allways loved the idea of ratting in titan) but it should not come true. Because the vets will abuse the shi* out of it, i was hoping for small warfare, but if titans were able to smash sub caps, a huge behemot would stampeed in null sec ( witch will happen any way, as soon as we will be able to destroy stations) ...
But back to the point, i think that we can bring titans back to light, for now there were mostly used as a remote stargate, with the patch inbound we should find them another meaningful role, Like the giant space comand ship, buff the bacis scan res to at least 100, and give it bonus % for links per skill lvl.
and they will be cool to use them in any fleet that is not in hi sec/wh space.
people will use them and "risk them" (giggles) on grid to better links and an FC that is hard to be head shot off the grid \o/ |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
74
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 19:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
If we all agree that we dn't like huge imortal killer things, way not to push them to be better support ships, that every one would like to have.
a super cool ship that can give 6 super cool links, DD things, can't be jamed and just can do stuff. and if you need, it can pull 6k+ dps against caps with out a sweat.
i think thats were Titas should go now, to be the ultimate, FC'ing boosting platform.
And hell, way not make them use DD aganst structures and eaven deal bonus damage.
if we can't se them head shothing ships, way don't let headshot structures
And let them dock .... and supercarriers too |
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