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Easier way to copy Bm's? (from char to char)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Jaro Koresh	Posted - 2006.08.11 03:24:00 - [1] Edited by: Jaro Koresh on 11/08/2006 03:24:50 Can we just copy a data file on my ccp directory? instead of copying each BM.. and trading... Got 1 guy with alotta insta's and another one with none... would like to share the insta's but not sit and spend an hour+ on copying them lol. (basically i have 2 accounts & 4 chars and would like to all have the insta's.)
Sigurd Ross	Posted - 2006.08.11 03:56:00 - [2] Let me thank you in advance for adding to the server's overhead and database problems. When EVE gets extra downtime every other day and unexpected shutdowns because of a saturation of bookmarks, you're doubling your weight and putting it on another character.
Johnathan Roark Caldari Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.08.11 04:01:00 - [3] Originally by: Sigurd Ross Let me thank you in advance for adding to the server's overhead and database problems. When EVE gets extra downtime every other day and unexpected shutdowns because of a saturation of bookmarks, you're doubling your weight and putting it on another character. Where did you see a dev post that was the problem? Corporation Management Improvement
Sigurd Ross	Posted - 2006.08.11 04:11:00 - [4] I can make my own observations on the matter, thank you. Did it ever make you wonder why it took so long to copy a set? Did you ever ask yourself just how much active memory it must take to categorically keep track of each and every XYZ coordinate "bookmarked" on each character? Remember, these things have to be kept in active memory at all times for immediate recall, thus making them database hogs. When you read about all the "database issues" that are making EVE crash day in and day out, it's not hard to see the writing on the wall. Unless of course you're an insta junkie and damn anyone who says anything against them. Sort of like yuppies who will lash out at anyone who snickers at their bloated, gas-guzzling SUV parked at Starbucks.
Evelyn Lavi	Posted - 2006.08.11 04:16:00 - [5] Why do I read this thread and get reminded of the United States Government? "There is no conclusive evidence that fossil fuel emissions are contributing to global warming." Server's choking like never before, and curiously enough, insta copying from alt to alt is on the rise. Since the advent of T2 ammo and gank-camps in lowsec, instas have become all but "necessary." And we wonder why the server chokes and dies and needs "refreshing" all the time.
Jaro Koresh	Posted - 2006.08.11 04:16:00 - [6] heh insta junkie... Heck i just got 2 set's of 500 and it takes forever to copy. 0.0, for newbs.. need insta's =/ I dont drive a suv.. but i do have a mustang.. i assume i waste gas in that... yea.. I race light to light.. sounds cooler.. =/
Evelyn Lavi	Posted - 2006.08.11 04:34:00 - [7] Originally by: Jaro Koresh heh insta junkie... Heck i just got 2 set's of 500 and it takes forever to copy. 0.0, for newbs.. need insta's =/ I dont drive a suv.. but i do have a mustang.. i assume i waste gas in that... yea.. I race light to light.. sounds cooler.. =/ You're not a baby-killer or a baby-eater (at least as far as I know). I know that instas are all but necessary in the current T2 ammo gankfests at lowsec gates. Still, I agree with Sigurd about where all the extra downtime and server crashes are coming from.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.11 07:35:00 - [8] Copying bookmarkes takes that long because the devs artificially slow it down to discurage copying - without success. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.08.11 08:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Tachy Copying bookmarkes takes that long because the devs artificially slow it down to discurage copying - without success. QFT. The server lag/database load stuff is pure tinfoil hats.
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.11 08:22:00 - [10] On eve tv Oveur himself quoted there were approximatly 100 MILLION bookmarks. Good odds there are alot more as well given the amount that are copied daily. The devs have stated they are looking into alternate methods but finding one that doesn't cause problems for both the server and game balance isn't as easy as you'd think (just do some searching for the number of "solution to insta's" threads there are). WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro

Makaylah Caldari Infinite Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.11 08:29:00 - [11] Actually, the copy problems we have nowadays isn't because you lag the server while copying. CCP made BM copying intentionally slow and cumbersome to PREVENT BM copying from lagging the server. ---------- Trading is my game, if you need something contact me.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.08.11 08:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Wild Rho On eve tv Oveur himself quoted there were approximatly 100 MILLION bookmarks. Good odds there are alot more as well given the amount that are copied daily. The devs have stated they are looking into alternate methods but finding one that doesn't cause problems for both the server and game balance isn't as easy as you'd think (just do some searching for the number of "solution to insta's" threads there are). Really? OK then, I stand (sit) corrected That's a lot of BMs, over 3000 per person playing EVE! And I only have about 100, that must mean someone out there has over 10,000! Whoever it is, dude, delete some, thanks!
Kanuo Ashkeron Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.11 08:38:00 - [13] Edited by: Kanuo Ashkeron on 11/08/2006 08:39:57 Edited by: Kanuo Ashkeron on 11/08/2006 08:38:48 Originally by: spurious signal Really? OK then, I stand (sit) corrected That's a lot of BMs, over 3000 per person playing EVE! And I only have about 100, that must mean someone out there has over 10,000! Whoever it is, dude, delete some, thanks! There are (or maybe it should be a ) And it is not only one, but maybe all the 0.0 population. And they cannot delete it, because you are not competetive anymore out there, if you do it.
Angry Sheep Amarr Aur0ra	Posted - 2006.08.11 09:04:00 - [14] Here is a thread on an idea for removing this problem Quote: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=376321&page=1#8 essentially make copying BM to your list or from your list a station service that runs at DT... It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Eleni Shakira School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.08.11 09:10:00 - [15] You shouldn't be able to copy them at all. ~ES
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.08.11 09:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron There are (or maybe it should be a ) And it is not only one, but maybe all the 0.0 population. And they cannot delete it, because you are not competetive anymore out there, if you do it. Dude i was joking
Hub Quantum Dark Synergy Inc. Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.11 09:27:00 - [17] Edited by: Hub Quantum on 11/08/2006 09:28:31 Originally by: Sigurd Ross I can make my own observations on the matter, thank you. Did it ever make you wonder why it took so long to copy a set? Did you ever ask yourself just how much active memory it must take to categorically keep track of each and every XYZ coordinate "bookmarked" on each character? Remember, these things have to be kept in active memory at all times for immediate recall, thus making them database hogs. When you read about all the "database issues" that are making EVE crash day in and day out, it's not hard to see the writing on the wall. Unless of course you're an insta junkie and damn anyone who says anything against them. Sort of like yuppies who will lash out at anyone who snickers at their bloated, gas-guzzling SUV parked at Starbucks. How is it his fault he is using a mechanic the game provides? Maybe we should be lashing out at you for using the bug prone, tremendously laggy forums and contributing to the problems the forum has? The database issues (as well as the forums) are their programmers fault, if a singular feature is causing the game to crash (as you seem to think) then they should fix it or remove it. It has nothing to do with the consumer; if you buy a car, you are going to drive it. If you buy a bottle of liquor, you are going to drink. If you buy a program, you are going to do what the program was coded for you to do. Bookmarks are not an exploit or a bug, CCP wrote the code for you to create, manipulate, trade, organize and use them.
Sigurd Ross	Posted - 2006.08.11 10:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Hub Quantum Edited by: Hub Quantum on 11/08/2006 09:28:31 Originally by: Sigurd Ross I can make my own observations on the matter, thank you. Did it ever make you wonder why it took so long to copy a set? Did you ever ask yourself just how much active memory it must take to categorically keep track of each and every XYZ coordinate "bookmarked" on each character? Remember, these things have to be kept in active memory at all times for immediate recall, thus making them database hogs. When you read about all the "database issues" that are making EVE crash day in and day out, it's not hard to see the writing on the wall. Unless of course you're an insta junkie and damn anyone who says anything against them. Sort of like yuppies who will lash out at anyone who snickers at their bloated, gas-guzzling SUV parked at Starbucks. How is it his fault he is using a mechanic the game provides? Maybe we should be lashing out at you for using the bug prone, tremendously laggy forums and contributing to the problems the forum has? The database issues (as well as the forums) are their programmers fault, if a singular feature is causing the game to crash (as you seem to think) then they should fix it or remove it. It has nothing to do with the consumer; if you buy a car, you are going to drive it. If you buy a bottle of liquor, you are going to drink. If you buy a program, you are going to do what the program was coded for you to do. Bookmarks are not an exploit or a bug, CCP wrote the code for you to create, manipulate, trade, organize and use them. What you fail to understand is that "instas" are an exploit that CCP didn't anticipate with the "bookmark" system. You see, the 15km arrival limit at jumpgates was put there for a reason. Like it or not, gates in lowsec were meant to be risky business (Not instalock, instapop bullcrap with T2 ammo, but that's another story). Using instas the way they are used now is like buying paint from a Home Depot then huffing it to get high. Sure, go ahead and say "the paint was legally sold to me." Fact remains it's not the intended purpose.
Jubal Moab	Posted - 2006.08.11 11:29:00 - [19] Whether they're intended for their current use or not is irrelevant. They are being used today to make transit faster and safer. Until another mechanism is put into the game to replace that function the players will continue to use them and instas will continue to multiply. Calling them an exploit is insignificant. They're effective and in play. Let's deal with that.

Xorus Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.08.11 11:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Jaro Koresh Edited by: Jaro Koresh on 11/08/2006 03:24:50 Can we just copy a data file on my ccp directory? instead of copying each BM.. and trading... Got 1 guy with alotta insta's and another one with none... would like to share the insta's but not sit and spend an hour+ on copying them lol. (basically i have 2 accounts & 4 chars and would like to all have the insta's.) In answer to this question no, all the BM's are stored serverside, the BM folders are stored locally but that doesn't help you with this problem, the BM's used to be stored clientside at one point but people started editing them so they fixed it, so unfortunately if you want to copy those BM's you have to do it the long way. ---


Sigurd Ross	Posted - 2006.08.11 11:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Jubal Moab Whether they're intended for their current use or not is irrelevant. They are being used today to make transit faster and safer. Until another mechanism is put into the game to replace that function the players will continue to use them and instas will continue to multiply. Calling them an exploit is insignificant. They're effective and in play. Let's deal with that. An exploit, even if validated with popularity, is still an exploit. That is, an unexpected use of in-game mechanics, in this case a loophole to bypass the 15km arrival point at stargates. To use my example above, huffing paint, even if the paint was bought legally, is not legal. But I suppose the reason tobacco is still legal is the sheer popularity of that brand of lung poison.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.08.11 12:06:00 - [22] If you had to travel the 15km by standard sublightspeed engines (I got to use the word! I am now a Star Trek Geek) I think many people would quit after getting tired of watching space pass by for the thenth-thousand time - and the ones that were left would be devided into two camps. The Gate Gankers: staying at 15 km where they warped in with their Battleships, packed with webbers The travelesrs: Transporting nothing bigger than an afterburner in their interceptors fitted with MWDs, speed mods and WCSs to oblivion. Trading would be forever gone and everyone wouold live in Jita and Oursulaert Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Jubal Moab	Posted - 2006.08.11 12:18:00 - [23] The original post addresses my biggest objection to insta-bookmarks. I'm fine with the fact that they're in game and players are using them. I would also be satisfied if CCP would remove them all from the game and we had to slow boat everywhere. What annoys me to death is the punishing method CCP has installed for copying the things. Do you think they could have created a more opaque, user hostile, tedious and irritating means of copying? I don't believe so. Bookmarks are necessary. Copying them is painful. The situation is intolerable. CCP, please address this issue. Sometime this year.
Tomic	Posted - 2006.08.11 14:04:00 - [24] Originally by: Sigurd Ross What you fail to understand is that "instas" are an exploit that CCP didn't anticipate with the "bookmark" system. Have you not noticed that CCP don't punish exploits anymore? If you really want to see databse lag/exploits etc. maybe you should pay RAT/COL a visit.
Andargor theWise Disbelievers of Fate	Posted - 2006.08.11 14:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Tomic Originally by: Sigurd Ross What you fail to understand is that "instas" are an exploit that CCP didn't anticipate with the "bookmark" system. Have you not noticed that CCP don't punish exploits anymore? If you really want to see databse lag/exploits etc. maybe you should pay RAT/COL a visit. Hunh? Explain. -
Tsavong Lah Caldari Solar Storm Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.11 14:48:00 - [26] imo, there are way too many copies of BMs on the server.. currently when someone joins a 0.0 corp they are encouraged to get bms for their local space.. surely this would be easier if there was a "shared" corp/alliance directory of bookmarks? these could be protected so only directors/ceos can copy from the "archive" as it were. this would probably save shedload of cpu time/database space (as there'd be less copied needed) I got a jar of dirt!
Sophia Germain Gallente Fluxion	Posted - 2006.08.11 14:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Sigurd Ross I can make my own observations on the matter, thank you. Did it ever make you wonder why it took so long to copy a set? Did you ever ask yourself just how much active memory it must take to categorically keep track of each and every XYZ coordinate "bookmarked" on each character? Remember, these things have to be kept in active memory at all times for immediate recall, thus making them database hogs. Did you ever thought CCP might have put in some sort of a sleep-function on purpose for bookmark copying, making you wait X seconds before every copy? This could be something done to discourage the use and copying of instas in the first place. The result of this? Even if people still try to copy as many instas as before, the frequency of copying is a lot slower due to the enforced sleep-pauses. Keeping something accessible doesn't require keeping the data in active memory, keeping them in the database would be just fine. For each system a user jumps to, the database could be queried once for the instas the user has to that single system. There's no need to keep everything in memory in any given situation.
Xianthar Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.11 15:00:00 - [28] removing BM's would be the end of eve as we know it, no one would use BS's, no one, everyone would be in hacs and otehr small fast ships causing the prices to get even more rediculous. ever tried to slow boat an itty V to a gate during a mining op when there are rats on that gate? mining in 0.0 would change, refueling POS's would change, thus changing the economy in eve. removing BM's would send ripples throught eve that would upset everything, no way to even tell all the implications of it. create a skill that at lvl 5 lets you warp within 2.5km of an object...that will kill 99% of bookmarks, all that will be left are SS bookmarks. or a skill that has a probability based setup, i.e. at lvl 5 you have a 90% chance of landing within 2.5km. -xian
DrakeStone Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.11 15:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Sigurd Ross Originally by: Hub Quantum Edited by: Hub Quantum on 11/08/2006 09:28:31 Originally by: Sigurd Ross I can make my own observations on the matter, thank you. Did it ever make you wonder why it took so long to copy a set? Did you ever ask yourself just how much active memory it must take to categorically keep track of each and every XYZ coordinate "bookmarked" on each character? Remember, these things have to be kept in active memory at all times for immediate recall, thus making them database hogs. When you read about all the "database issues" that are making EVE crash day in and day out, it's not hard to see the writing on the wall. Unless of course you're an insta junkie and damn anyone who says anything against them. Sort of like yuppies who will lash out at anyone who snickers at their bloated, gas-guzzling SUV parked at Starbucks. How is it his fault he is using a mechanic the game provides? Maybe we should be lashing out at you for using the bug prone, tremendously laggy forums and contributing to the problems the forum has? The database issues (as well as the forums) are their programmers fault, if a singular feature is causing the game to crash (as you seem to think) then they should fix it or remove it. It has nothing to do with the consumer; if you buy a car, you are going to drive it. If you buy a bottle of liquor, you are going to drink. If you buy a program, you are going to do what the program was coded for you to do. Bookmarks are not an exploit or a bug, CCP wrote the code for you to create, manipulate, trade, organize and use them. What you fail to understand is that "instas" are an exploit that CCP didn't anticipate with the "bookmark" system. You see, the 15km arrival limit at jumpgates was put there for a reason. Like it or not, gates in lowsec were meant to be risky business (Not instalock, instapop bullcrap with T2 ammo, but that's another story). Using instas the way they are used now is like buying paint from a Home Depot then huffing it to get high. Sure, go ahead and say "the paint was legally sold to me." Fact remains it's not the intended purpose. I think it is you who fail to understand the reality of the situation. It is not an exploit. Do you know what an exploit is? It is a circumvention of gaming mechanics that goes against the rules as set by the entity that created the game. As this is not the case, let's shed the use of this word in this context. And before you say that it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't the intended purpose, neither was the current escrow system or a host of other examples. It's called evolution, and most of said evolution in this game and other areas of life, are unintended. This does not make them inherently bad, or more to the point, an exploitation. You are respectfully, drawing a conclusion based in ignorance, that this is the reason for the lagging of the server. You have no clue if this is the reality or not. Perhaps a better angle would be for you to argue that, perhaps as a pirate, it is difficult to now catch people. That is valid. Your sweeping assumptions are not. So after all that, we are left with the fact that people believe that people shouldn't do it for the better good of the other players on the server. And to that I say: how about you mark your goods down by 10% on the next resell and do more good for the players, too. As you see, that is an arguement you will never win.
Twilight Moon Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.11 15:59:00 - [30] Originally by: spurious signal That's a lot of BMs, over 3000 per person playing EVE! And I only have about 100, that must mean someone out there has over 10,000! Whoever it is, dude, delete some, thanks! err... Its a bad thing when I saw that "3000" and thought "is that all," isn't it? ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.



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