EVE Search - Gunnery vs Missiles : skilltree

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Gunnery vs Missiles : skilltree

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Tennotsukai Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.15 23:15:00 - [91] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Audrea Stuff. And you wanted to prove exactly what ? well to me it proves first of all you don't need to train any of the support skills to be able to use T2 Cruise launchers and missles... But you need some of the supports skills as prereq's for T2 large rail guns and the ammo.. plus at the end of the day.. T2 cruise launchers and cruise missles take less time to train for then t2 rails and its ammo. Just out of interest why are you so against the missles being put into skill trees once the heavy assault missles come out or having the turrets skill tree reduced to be in line with the missle skill trees? (oh and people still trained for T2 guns when T2 ammo wasn't in game due to the little bit of extra damage you get over t1 guns in the same way T2 cruise launchers have a better RoF then T1... so your comment about no t2 ammo = no reason to train t2 guns is totally wrong.)
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.08.16 00:08:00 - [92] Train both and be quite. Wherever you went - here you are.
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.08.16 00:11:00 - [93] Originally by: Tennotsukai Just out of interest why are you so against the missles being put into skill trees once the heavy assault missles come out or having the turrets skill tree reduced to be in line with the missle skill trees? because right now missile users have more skills to train. doing either of the things you say would imbalance it even more towards gun users Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.16 06:09:00 - [94] Originally by: Apertotes Originally by: Tennotsukai Just out of interest why are you so against the missles being put into skill trees once the heavy assault missles come out or having the turrets skill tree reduced to be in line with the missle skill trees? because right now missile users have more skills to train. doing either of the things you say would imbalance it even more towards gun users O really... why is there like 45% eve population caldari and why is 75% new players caldari. Must be underpowered missiles and sh1tty ships. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
FinrodFelagund	Posted - 2006.08.16 07:09:00 - [95] Originally by: LUKEC O really... why is there like 45% eve population caldari and why is 75% new players caldari. Must be underpowered missiles and sh1tty ships. That's kind of near sited. Caldari are obviously good for pve, and while i doubt any of the new players know exactly what to expect, the achura bloodline has the best stats in the game. (and if they know or were introduced to eve by a current player, i think they would probably be told to use caldari ships due to their ease for pve and low skill point requirements to be 'effective') Methinks it has more to do with achura then caldari specifically... (But thats a whole new thread so lets leave it out of here). Anyway, is this thread supposed to be about missle/gunnery balance, or is it about the skill tree's and the training time. Maybe I made the mistake of thinking it was about the tree's and training time.
Alex Tremayne Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.16 07:32:00 - [96] Originally by: FinrodFelagund That's kind of near sited. Caldari are obviously good for pve, and while i doubt any of the new players know exactly what to expect, the achura bloodline has the best stats in the game. (and if they know or were introduced to eve by a current player, i think they would probably be told to use caldari ships due to their ease for pve and low skill point requirements to be 'effective') Bah. I never tell new players to fly Caldari. I tell them if they want to keep any self respect they should fly Minmatar. :)
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.16 07:33:00 - [97] Originally by: FinrodFelagund Originally by: LUKEC O really... why is there like 45% eve population caldari and why is 75% new players caldari. Must be underpowered missiles and sh1tty ships. That's kind of near sited. Caldari are obviously good for pve, and while i doubt any of the new players know exactly what to expect, the achura bloodline has the best stats in the game. (and if they know or were introduced to eve by a current player, i think they would probably be told to use caldari ships due to their ease for pve and low skill point requirements to be 'effective') Methinks it has more to do with achura then caldari specifically... (But thats a whole new thread so lets leave it out of here). Anyway, is this thread supposed to be about missle/gunnery balance, or is it about the skill tree's and the training time. Maybe I made the mistake of thinking it was about the tree's and training time. Most new chars are alts. Then go figure. If you cannot beat them, join them. I was whining alot about caldari, raven and missiles and how uber they are. Now i have caldari alt and care no more. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.08.16 07:45:00 - [98] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: FinrodFelagund Originally by: LUKEC O really... why is there like 45% eve population caldari and why is 75% new players caldari. Must be underpowered missiles and sh1tty ships. That's kind of near sited. Caldari are obviously good for pve, and while i doubt any of the new players know exactly what to expect, the achura bloodline has the best stats in the game. (and if they know or were introduced to eve by a current player, i think they would probably be told to use caldari ships due to their ease for pve and low skill point requirements to be 'effective') Methinks it has more to do with achura then caldari specifically... (But thats a whole new thread so lets leave it out of here). Anyway, is this thread supposed to be about missle/gunnery balance, or is it about the skill tree's and the training time. Maybe I made the mistake of thinking it was about the tree's and training time. Most new chars are alts. Then go figure. If you cannot beat them, join them. I was whining alot about caldari, raven and missiles and how uber they are. Now i have caldari alt and care no more. i hope you have a better argument than that. first, as has been said, new players now nothing about missiles, turrets, tracking and skill trees. they choose caldari for the looks, the background history, stats and because they are the first race on the screen. second, achura alts reason isnt missiles, but stats, cause maybe you dont know, but you dont have to start a new character to train for missiles. you can do that with every character of every race. no need to start again to do it. still, my point stands. missile users have more skill points to train than gun users. Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Audrea Widowmakers Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2006.08.16 07:59:00 - [99] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Audrea Originally by: Hugh Ruka My points still stand. Without t2 ammo, he does not need to care about all the prereqs, he simply trains large guns to 4 and all the relevant range and electronics skills. He's ready to go. No t2 guns needed. Suddenly we have no problem with training times. WRONG. here are the proofs, for your convinience: 1)425mm Railgun II 2)Spike L a)Cruise Missile Launcher II b)Cruise Missiles T2 Hopefully now you seee why its unbalanced, in the scenario I mentioned. EDIT: Fixed width :) And you wanted to prove exactly what ? There is no point to repeat what I and others have said again.. just take a look at the requirements for the missiles against turrets in my example. if you cant get it, u never will. Quote: still, my point stands. missile users have more skill points to train than gun users. Perhaps, but I dont think its a good justification for them to get T2 torps/cruise first! Beside, if its so important to you - perhaps you should attribute the extra skillpoints for the easier PVE that missiles allow, instead of easier skilltree ------------------ Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.08.16 09:07:00 - [100] Originally by: Audrea Quote: still, my point stands. missile users have more skill points to train than gun users. Perhaps, but I dont think its a good justification for them to get T2 torps/cruise first! i think is justification enough. but there is also the fact that turret users got a 5 million start to next weapon system. Originally by: Audrea Beside, if its so important to you - perhaps you should attribute the extra skillpoints for the easier PVE that missiles allow, instead of easier skilltree yes, cause PVE is the goal of this game Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Tennotsukai Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.16 13:14:00 - [101] Originally by: Apertotes Originally by: Tennotsukai Just out of interest why are you so against the missles being put into skill trees once the heavy assault missles come out or having the turrets skill tree reduced to be in line with the missle skill trees? because right now missile users have more skills to train. doing either of the things you say would imbalance it even more towards gun users But no matter how much spin you put on it the fact is... To train for t2 torps or cruise takes less time and skills then it does to train for T2 large guns. You can keep on about "You need the support skills.." but you don't in the intial training of the skills, unlike turret users, so a new player can be using t2 torps and cruise missles while training his support skills..long before a new player wanting to use only T2 large guns. So the Inbalance as you like to speak of is in favour of the missle users..
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.16 14:12:00 - [102] Why does EVERYONE look at this argument with one eye closed? YES It's quicker to get to T2 Torps if that is all you want to do. But without the support skills they will SUCK. WITH the support skills, missile users have to train more. To MAXIMISE damage, Missile users have to train more IF a turret user wants to switch from Hybrids to lasers (or projectiles, or from one turret to any other) he has the benefit that the support skills are already trained. A missile user has to start from scratch all over again, training the support skills for the turret weapons. So: Choose turrets for: Greater choice Less overall training time Slower start Choose missiles for; Faster start More overall training time Less choice --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Tennotsukai Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.16 15:34:00 - [103] Originally by: Grey Area Why does EVERYONE look at this argument with one eye closed? YES It's quicker to get to T2 Torps if that is all you want to do. But without the support skills they will SUCK. WITH the support skills, missile users have to train more. To MAXIMISE damage, Missile users have to train more IF a turret user wants to switch from Hybrids to lasers (or projectiles, or from one turret to any other) he has the benefit that the support skills are already trained. A missile user has to start from scratch all over again, training the support skills for the turret weapons. So: Choose turrets for: Greater choice Less overall training time Slower start Choose missiles for; Faster start More overall training time Less choice The same can be said about the missle users arguing against either the introduction of missle skill trees that are like the gunnery ones or the reduction of gunnery skill to trees to match the missle ones. Turrets also suck without support skills.. plus you need to train some support skills as prereqs for the large turret specs. The fact is a person can be using T2 torps or cruise long before they can use T2 large turrets, reguardless of the support skills as the turret users is forced to train small and med guns plus specs. No-one has given a real reason why it would be a bad thing for either the missle skill trees to match the turret ones or for the turret skill trees to be reduced to match the missle ones. Going on about missles need the support skills, or missle suck during fleet ops are not valid reasons, its like saying well missle always hit and missle users can still fire when jammed, turret users need all their support skills as well and tracking disrupters don't affect missle users as counter arguments.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.16 15:51:00 - [104] Edited by: Grey Area on 16/08/2006 15:52:00 Tenn, I'll quote it again... Originally by: Grey Area Choose turrets for: Greater choice Less overall training time Slower start Choose missiles for; Faster start More overall training time Less choice if you change the missile tree to be like gunnery, or the gunnery tree to be like missiles you get; Quote: Choose turrets for: Greater choice Less overall training time Choose missiles for; Less choice More overall training time i.e. All positives for turrets, all negatives for missiles. And it has NOTHING to do with missiles always hitting, or turrets doing wrecking hits...it's just about the skills you train and the weapons it gives you access to. THAT is why it should not be changed. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.16 16:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Apertotes Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: FinrodFelagund Originally by: LUKEC O really... why is there like 45% eve population caldari and why is 75% new players caldari. Must be underpowered missiles and sh1tty ships. That's kind of near sited. Caldari are obviously good for pve, and while i doubt any of the new players know exactly what to expect, the achura bloodline has the best stats in the game. (and if they know or were introduced to eve by a current player, i think they would probably be told to use caldari ships due to their ease for pve and low skill point requirements to be 'effective') Methinks it has more to do with achura then caldari specifically... (But thats a whole new thread so lets leave it out of here). Anyway, is this thread supposed to be about missle/gunnery balance, or is it about the skill tree's and the training time. Maybe I made the mistake of thinking it was about the tree's and training time. Most new chars are alts. Then go figure. If you cannot beat them, join them. I was whining alot about caldari, raven and missiles and how uber they are. Now i have caldari alt and care no more. i hope you have a better argument than that. first, as has been said, new players now nothing about missiles, turrets, tracking and skill trees. they choose caldari for the looks, the background history, stats and because they are the first race on the screen. second, achura alts reason isnt missiles, but stats, cause maybe you dont know, but you dont have to start a new character to train for missiles. you can do that with every character of every race. no need to start again to do it. still, my point stands. missile users have more skill points to train than gun users. Your point is: there is more skillpoints in missiles than in turrets. Maybe it is time to split missile launchers into categories and give each race its own or something. Because we are talking apples and oranges here. Same skills are for typhoon and for raven. While there are not same skills for megathron and tempest. Yes, support skills are same, but not "main" skills. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.16 16:49:00 - [106] Originally by: Vathar You missed the "except when level 5 is required" ... IIRC, T2 missiles don't require a single missile support skill to 5. So you can be a decent missile user by having all skills but rockets, torps, light, heavy and cruise missiles to 5 and everything else to 4. T2 missiles require missile launcher operation V ("support" skill?) and then the type of missiles you're going to use to V. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Win a Cynabal for 10ml!!!
Tennotsukai Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.16 16:49:00 - [107] Originally by: Grey Area Edited by: Grey Area on 16/08/2006 15:52:00 Tenn, I'll quote it again... Originally by: Grey Area Choose turrets for: Greater choice Less overall training time Slower start Choose missiles for; Faster start More overall training time Less choice if you change the missile tree to be like gunnery, or the gunnery tree to be like missiles you get; Quote: Choose turrets for: Greater choice Less overall training time Choose missiles for; Less choice More overall training time i.e. All positives for turrets, all negatives for missiles. And it has NOTHING to do with missiles always hitting, or turrets doing wrecking hits...it's just about the skills you train and the weapons it gives you access to. THAT is why it should not be changed. I know what your trying to say mate, but you have to look at it from the flip side. But first of all the greater choice argument is flawed.. as if your going to add that once you have trained up for lets say T2 large rails, training up for T2 large arts is easier as you don't have to train the prereq support skills then lets add all the turrets together under the same banner reguardless of type... now missle users can't use the more skill points required argument as turret users have far more skill points to train for to be able to use all turrets. But you have to remember there are people that just want to specilise in Battleships or cruisers.. yet they are forced to train for something they don't want.. Where missle users are not. Also if the turrets skill trees was changed to that of the missles then you can't use the greater choice argument.. thus leaving it in the realms of more or less overall skill training time.. which in itself is balanced by the overall pros and cons of each weapon system.
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.08.16 18:04:00 - [108] Originally by: Tennotsukai Also if the turrets skill trees was changed to that of the missles then you can't use the greater choice argument.. thus leaving it in the realms of more or less overall skill training time.. which in itself is balanced by the overall pros and cons of each weapon system. you really dont understand do you? if tech 2 large turret requirements were the same as tech 2 torps requirement, the argument about grater choice not only is still valid, but even more. you would be able to train any turret type so fast it wouldnt even be funny. you want it like missiles? great, lets make 3 different gunnery trees, one for rails, one for projectiles and one for lasers, with its own independant secondary skills. then you can train for tech 2 large guns without training for tech 2 medium and small guns. oh, and raise the secondary skill points by 2 million. happy? Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Isonkon Serikain Gallente Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.16 18:19:00 - [109] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: MrRookie Actually since some people probably had large pulse spec at 5 when missile users had 12 more skills slapped in their face, I think it's right at it's place that turret specs takes a few days longer. True. But 90% of new players are caldari because of this. Maybe it would be smart to remove tree from turrets? I trained med. hybrids to 5 to use large... now tell me about those 22mil sp in missiles when i have 7 on alt and CBA to train anything else there. And from my experience 7M in missiles is plenty to pwn... whereas you can have 10 in gunnery and still wish for more... Pity the fool
Tennotsukai Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.16 18:30:00 - [110] Originally by: Apertotes Originally by: Tennotsukai Also if the turrets skill trees was changed to that of the missles then you can't use the greater choice argument.. thus leaving it in the realms of more or less overall skill training time.. which in itself is balanced by the overall pros and cons of each weapon system. you really dont understand do you? if tech 2 large turret requirements were the same as tech 2 torps requirement, the argument about grater choice not only is still valid, but even more. you would be able to train any turret type so fast it wouldnt even be funny. you want it like missiles? great, lets make 3 different gunnery trees, one for rails, one for projectiles and one for lasers, with its own independant secondary skills. then you can train for tech 2 large guns without training for tech 2 medium and small guns. oh, and raise the secondary skill points by 2 million. happy? No... you fail to understand it wouldn't.. Being as you wouldn't have the prereq's that you already need in training up t2 large turrets.. you wouldn't have access to the small and medium specs that you need. Look at the skill reqs for t2 torps ... then imagine lets say t2 large blasters having a skill tree that looks like it... Now you tell me how that gives a greater choice for only turret users? It doesn't, if anything it give a greater choice to everyone both missle users and turret users.. that way people can pick and choose what they want to train for.. so missle users who want to say use the rokh can do so without having to train for all the rail specs. Being as it is you can train for any type of missle launcher faster then the equiv turret at the moment.. As you DON'T need to train the support skills first. It has nothing to do with that you need the skills.. you don't need them in the intial training of the skill.. unlike T2 large turrets where some support skills are prereqs. So far you have failed to give any real reason why either missles should recive skill trees like turrets once assault missles are introduced or that turret skill trees should become like missle skill trees. all you have gone on about is the skill points but failed to understand that this balances out the pro and cons of the weapon systems in general which in itself is another argument.
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.08.16 19:13:00 - [111] Originally by: Tennotsukai Originally by: Apertotes Originally by: Tennotsukai Also if the turrets skill trees was changed to that of the missles then you can't use the greater choice argument.. thus leaving it in the realms of more or less overall skill training time.. which in itself is balanced by the overall pros and cons of each weapon system. you really dont understand do you? if tech 2 large turret requirements were the same as tech 2 torps requirement, the argument about grater choice not only is still valid, but even more. you would be able to train any turret type so fast it wouldnt even be funny. you want it like missiles? great, lets make 3 different gunnery trees, one for rails, one for projectiles and one for lasers, with its own independant secondary skills. then you can train for tech 2 large guns without training for tech 2 medium and small guns. oh, and raise the secondary skill points by 2 million. happy? No... you fail to understand it wouldn't.. Being as you wouldn't have the prereq's that you already need in training up t2 large turrets.. you wouldn't have access to the small and medium specs that you need. Look at the skill reqs for t2 torps ... then imagine lets say t2 large blasters having a skill tree that looks like it... Now you tell me how that gives a greater choice for only turret users? It doesn't, if anything it give a greater choice to everyone both missle users and turret users.. that way people can pick and choose what they want to train for.. so missle users who want to say use the rokh can do so without having to train for all the rail specs. Being as it is you can train for any type of missle launcher faster then the equiv turret at the moment.. As you DON'T need to train the support skills first. It has nothing to do with that you need the skills.. you don't need them in the intial training of the skill.. unlike T2 large turrets where some support skills are prereqs. So far you have failed to give any real reason why either missles should recive skill trees like turrets once assault missles are introduced or that turret skill trees should become like missle skill trees. all you have gone on about is the skill points but failed to understand that this balances out the pro and cons of the weapon systems in general which in itself is another argument. dude, you are thick. when we say that turret users have easier choices we dont refer to large-medium-small but to hybrids-projectiles-lasers sharing their secondary skills. and its got nothing to do with tech 2 large guns prerequisites. anyway, i see that you didnt even want to comment my proposal about dividing gunnery tree into 3. i guess that doesnt look so good, does it? Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Lumel Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.08.16 19:23:00 - [112] At first I was going to reply with thoughts and details. Then I read more posts and pages and so on and I realized something. Everyone's really just yelling and gesturing at an invisible man somewhere just a bit behind the monitor. Almost no one seems to be listening to anyone else's points. And everyone is trying to compare apple pie to orange sherbet. --- Knowledge won't help us understand
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.16 19:27:00 - [113] Tenn, you are REALLY not getting this mate... Originally by: Tennotsukai But first of all the greater choice argument is flawed.. as if your going to add that once you have trained up for lets say T2 large rails, training up for T2 large arts is easier as you don't have to train the prereq support skills then lets add all the turrets together under the same banner reguardless of type... now missle users can't use the more skill points required argument as turret users have far more skill points to train for to be able to use all turrets. Stupid argument. Look at it this way...I have trained all missile skills to level 5. I can't get any better, and I am tired of using the Raven. I want a change. So I have to train for ANOTHER set of support skills. Now let's assume I was a turret player to start with. I have trained enregy weapons to level 5, and am bored with the Apoc. I want a change. I can train Hybrids OR Projectiles WITHOUT having to train any associated support skills. NOW do you see what we mean about flexibility? Originally by: Tennotsukai But you have to remember there are people that just want to specilise in Battleships or cruisers.. yet they are forced to train for something they don't want.. Where missle users are not. That is right. It is the price turret users pay for having LESS skill points in the overall skill tree and MORE flexibility in their ability to switch between hybrids/lasers/projectiles with greater ease. Originally by: Tennotsukai Also if the turrets skill trees was changed to that of the missles then you can't use the greater choice argument.. thus leaving it in the realms of more or less overall skill training time.. which in itself is balanced by the overall pros and cons of each weapon system. I'm sorry, but if the skill restriction on gunnery is REMOVED, then turret users get even MORE choice without restriction...you would be able to simply train LARGE Hybrids, Lasers AND Projectiles in a matter of a few months. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Azerrad	Posted - 2006.08.16 19:27:00 - [114] We're too far down the road to change anything anyways...
Tennotsukai Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.16 19:28:00 - [115] Originally by: Apertotes dude, you are thick. when we say that turret users have easier choices we dont refer to large-medium-small but to hybrids-projectiles-lasers sharing their secondary skills. and its got nothing to do with tech 2 large guns prerequisites. anyway, i see that you didnt even want to comment my proposal about dividing gunnery tree into 3. i guess that doesnt look so good, does it? Why was i so expecting you to reply with an insult... maybe becuase you can't come up with a vaild reason why it would be so wrong therefore had to make a person attack. You fail once again to come up with any form of valid reason why either the missles get a proper skill tree like turrets have or have the turrets skill trees cut back to match that of the missle ones. I guess its time for you to find a new post to troll.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.16 19:31:00 - [116] Originally by: Azerrad We're too far down the road to change anything anyways... No, we are not. The DEVS COULD conceivably remove skill requirements for turret specialisation. It is my devout hope that they do NOT. I don't care about the length of posts on the subject, as long as all views are aired. I trust the devs (honest) to make the right decision (oh, okay, I trust them to get close to the right decision and then patch things to adjust the imbalance a few weeks later) Remember..."whines" is an anagram of "he wins". --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.08.16 19:36:00 - [117] Originally by: Apertotes dude, you are thick. when we say that turret users have easier choices we dont refer to large-medium-small but to hybrids-projectiles-lasers sharing their secondary skills. and its got nothing to do with tech 2 large guns prerequisites. anyway, i see that you didnt even want to comment my proposal about dividing gunnery tree into 3. i guess that doesnt look so good, does it? What you fail to understand is that the missle skills are universal. You do not have a "caladri" torp or a "minmatar" torp. If the missle skill tree would be like the gunnery skill tree you wouldn't have a "standard missle" skill, but a "minmatar standard missles" one for the exp damage missles, a "caldari standard missle" skill for the kin damage missles...I think you get the idea. When a minmatar pilot switches to caldari he has to train new skills for gunnery, but zero zip zilch new ones for missles.
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.08.16 20:27:00 - [118] Edited by: Apertotes on 16/08/2006 20:31:07 Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Apertotes dude, you are thick. when we say that turret users have easier choices we dont refer to large-medium-small but to hybrids-projectiles-lasers sharing their secondary skills. and its got nothing to do with tech 2 large guns prerequisites. anyway, i see that you didnt even want to comment my proposal about dividing gunnery tree into 3. i guess that doesnt look so good, does it? What you fail to understand is that the missle skills are universal. You do not have a "caladri" torp or a "minmatar" torp. If the missle skill tree would be like the gunnery skill tree you wouldn't have a "standard missle" skill, but a "minmatar standard missles" one for the exp damage missles, a "caldari standard missle" skill for the kin damage missles...I think you get the idea. When a minmatar pilot switches to caldari he has to train new skills for gunnery, but zero zip zilch new ones for missles. it doesnt matter. we are not talking about races here. we are talking about weapon systems. we got 5 of those. missiles, drones, hybrids, projectiles and lasers. its clear we got 5 and not 3 because there are 5 different bonus to weapons. i mean, we got missile's bonus, drones' bonus and we dont have turret's bonus in general, we have bonus to any one of the 3 kinds of turrets there is. so, out of those 5 weapon systems, 3 of them are sharing 5 million sp. it doesnt matter that when switching to minmatar from caldari you dont have to train another tree for missiles. what matters is that when you switch from a missile ship (be it caldari, minie, gallente or amarr) to a gun ship (again, it doesnt matter what race) you have to start from 0. instead, when switching from one gun ship to another gun ship, you have already 5 million sp trained. Originally by: Tennotsukai Originally by: Apertotes dude, you are thick. when we say that turret users have easier choices we dont refer to large-medium-small but to hybrids-projectiles-lasers sharing their secondary skills. and its got nothing to do with tech 2 large guns prerequisites. anyway, i see that you didnt even want to comment my proposal about dividing gunnery tree into 3. i guess that doesnt look so good, does it? Why was i so expecting you to reply with an insult... maybe becuase you can't come up with a vaild reason why it would be so wrong therefore had to make a person attack. You fail once again to come up with any form of valid reason why either the missles get a proper skill tree like turrets have or have the turrets skill trees cut back to match that of the missle ones. I guess its time for you to find a new post to troll. look, all throughout 4 pages you failed to grasp anything at all. i am not going to bother any more with you. i already gave the most fair solution to you, which you didnt even comment. if you really want guns to be like missiles, so be it. 3 different and complete gunnery trees. and you can train your tech 2 large guns without training for medium and small. i would be very ashamed of your last post, really. it shows you havent understood anything at all. Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.08.16 22:18:00 - [119] Originally by: Tennotsukai No-one has given a real reason why it would be a bad thing for either the missle skill trees to match the turret ones or for the turret skill trees to be reduced to match the missle ones. Going on about missles need the support skills, or missle suck during fleet ops are not valid reasons, its like saying well missle always hit and missle users can still fire when jammed, turret users need all their support skills as well and tracking disrupters don't affect missle users as counter arguments. Two very easy reasons why a change to the current system would be bad (oh and im argueing against caldari all the time) 1)If you would add "requirements" to the missile tree to bring it enpar with turrets you would stealthnerf minmatar ships since now i.e. the typhoon would require ALL t2 missiles, t2 drones and t2 guns, same for the tempest and cruisers/hacs. -> more training time for the most skill intensive race in eve would be bad. 2)if you would decrease turret requirements it would be a stealth buff to the existing caldari population because it would be even easier for them to use missiles and guns "on some ships" while peeving off existing gun users who "wasted" trainingtime already. I personally think there is no easy fix to it, like always when skills and attributes (and hence already spend gametime/investions) are involved.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.08.16 22:43:00 - [120] Apertotetes, you are wrong with your assumptions. Those skillpoints which are "shared" by all turret skills have to be trained first aswell. Since missileskills are trained faster (if u dont go for 5 on everything) you will be "faster" anyways so i really hope someone with more time would fire up evemon and check how much time it takes for a new char to train up supportskills (both missile and guns) to 4, train for torp spec 4 and large hybrid spec(s) 4 (with sharpshooter 5 and motion prediction 5 ofc) and compare it to a Gunnery user training hybrids and projectile spec(s) to 4 each. Im not even talking about adding advanced weaponupgrade 4 to 5 to it since apart from projectiles noone really needs it.

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.