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Benco97
Gallente
On Ravens Wings
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Posted - 2006.08.15 13:21:00 -
[1]
Hey all, sorry if this has come up before but i've just noticed that the Hound is considerably heavier than it's Tech I equivalent, why is this? surely being lighter would give it fast align -> warp times which is a good thing on a SB?
Is this true of the others, have they also increased in weight?
Snug Radio - Fart like a Pirate |
Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.08.15 13:56:00 -
[2]
/Signed ftw.
My Nemesis, in addition to needing a mapc just to fit the 2 cruise launchers it's required to use (even with eng 5 and awu 3) it aligns slower than most cruisers (even with evasive maneuvering 5).
Give all stealth bombers a significant reduction in mass.
And give the Nemesis more pg.
Make it so number one!
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! |
Lickity Split
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:27:00 -
[3]
all of the bombers need a mass reduction. the gall, amarr, and min all need either another launcher or some good bonus to bring them on par with the caldari one.
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Benco97
Gallente
On Ravens Wings
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:31:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Lickity Split
the gall, amarr, and min all need either another launcher or some good bonus to bring them on par with the caldari one.
I agree about the mass reductions but I think the Caldari one should be the only one with three launchers because to be fair they ARE missile specialists (even if I don't like them) I'm really quite happy with my hound I just think they could all do with a mass change.
Improving them other than that is a debate for another thread frankly ;p
Snug Radio - Fart like a Pirate |
Savion Mercarte
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:37:00 -
[5]
/signed
Caldari has the only good bomber. All the masses are way too high, and the prices on cloaking devices make it to where there's really no reason to use a bomber.
Originally I believe bombers were going to have a good 4-5 missle launchers but they changed it.
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Lord Azraiel
Minmatar
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:41:00 -
[6]
I fly both the manti and the hound. The reason they are so heavy is because they are fitted with cruise launchers. It's a balance thing.
"I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!" |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:59:00 -
[7]
and bring out a cruiser sized version so its useful solo :D |
Celedris
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.15 15:20:00 -
[8]
The Manticore actually has worse agility than a Prowler (Min T2 Industrial).
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Dr Happy
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Posted - 2006.08.15 15:31:00 -
[9]
you know what would be cool? give the miine SB ARt's :-P
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Xantina
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.08.15 15:32:00 -
[10]
On top of the mass reduction they could do with more warp range. A stealth bomber in a gang is a drag, they just need 2 jumps when the rest of the fleet needs one, and if the pilot don't have his own g2g instas he will have the gang wait again while he's crawling towards the gate from 15 km.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.15 15:45:00 -
[11]
They need to be clumsy, slow warping etc because of their DPS combined with their cloak...
(Gimmick, gimmick!)
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Lickity Split
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Posted - 2006.08.15 15:46:00 -
[12]
if the others dont get a extra slot since they are not caldari then they need to make the bonuses so good on the others that they come close to the caldari one. from what i understand the gall one cannot fit anything on it almost. the amarr one has a bonus to small guns? what is that? steath bombers at a range that small lasers can be used means stealth bomber dead. and stupid cloak is gone. not to get off on a rant about cloaks, hell they are one of the main problems with bombers. a purifier you can buy for like 3million but hell who is going to fly a ship with weak damage and a mod on it that cost 10x the ship.
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.15 15:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dr Happy
you know what would be cool? give the miine SB ARt's :-P
You win the thread!
why are all the SB's cruise missile based? great for caldari but what about the rest?
Give minni 1400mm bonus, amarr megabeam bonus, gallente 350mm bonus :D!!!
BRILLIANT |
Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.15 15:58:00 -
[14]
You could at least quote consistant weapon classes...
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Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.08.15 16:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Benco97
Originally by: Lickity Split
the gall, amarr, and min all need either another launcher or some good bonus to bring them on par with the caldari one.
I agree about the mass reductions but I think the Caldari one should be the only one with three launchers because to be fair they ARE missile specialists (even if I don't like them) I'm really quite happy with my hound I just think they could all do with a mass change.
Improving them other than that is a debate for another thread frankly ;p
I dont know, give all races sb 4 highslots, 3 launchers and 1 utility(cloack).
keep frig bonus for gal/mini/amar the way theye are, give caldari 7.5% bonus to cruise missile damage(all types, gives effectifly 4.1 launchers against 3.75 for others if theye use racial damage.).
replace the turret/grid bonus from cov op skills with missile velocity bonus, maybe bit bigger for caldari one and 96-100% reduction in cov op cloak cpu req
boost grid/cpu where needed, maybe agi, mass and definetly warp range boost. anti frig/cruiser roll.
then another t2 destroyer or cruiser for the roll of heavy stealth bomber with 4 or 5 torpedo launchers fo anti bc/bs/(cap ship?) roll would be nice as well
- It is much more efficient to talk to yourself in person than via the chat system.
Now imagine the unimaginable |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.15 16:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: eLLioTT wave on 15/08/2006 16:26:13
Edited by: eLLioTT wave on 15/08/2006 16:24:41
Originally by: Maya Rkell
You could at least quote consistant weapon classes...
you could at least contribute to the thread 
BTW which one wasnt consistent? afaik they are all the smallest Large long range weapon of each race... no?
edit, meant to say 1200mm in original, not 1400 (woah thats a HUGE error the sky is falling now?) |
Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.15 16:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/08/2006 16:26:21
Okay, you want a longer comment? It's a terrible idea. Not only are you quoting inconsistant weapons classes (and thus creating balance issues), guns add allsorts of extra gank issues which missiles do not (ability to strike instantly from range, etc.)
I would move Bombers (no stealth) to using 3-4 heavy rocket launchers, and make their tanks AF-like.
(And no.. the problem is that Arty only has 1200mm and 1400mm)
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.15 16:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: eLLioTT wave on 15/08/2006 16:32:44
wha? you want me to include a turret that doesn't exist yet then? wow you really are hard to get along with...
how about instead of "your idea sucks i propose something that has nothing to do with this thread" providing feedback that is useful and on topic?
Perhaps even the cruiser sized guns would be good, Amarr heavy beams, Minmatarr 720mm, caldari cruise (heavy missiles instead kinda breaks it?), Gallente 250mm
With optimal range bonuses, these would be like mini harpys, no ones very afraid of a sniper harpy now r they... |
Nidhoggur
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Posted - 2006.08.15 16:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I would move Bombers (no stealth) to using 3-4 heavy rocket launchers, and make their tanks AF-like.
Sounds OK. Not inspired, but makes them more useful then they are now.
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Merin Ryskin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.15 17:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
wha? you want me to include a turret that doesn't exist yet then? wow you really are hard to get along with...
how about instead of "your idea sucks i propose something that has nothing to do with this thread" providing feedback that is useful and on topic?
Don't be surprised, this is Maya Rkell. He's nothing but a troll with some bizarre hatred of stealth bombers and a determination to kill them at all costs, whatever dishonest debating tactics it requires.
By the way Maya, I'm still waiting for the answer to my questions:
1) How much damage will each rocket do?
2) What rate of fire will the launchers have?
3) What explosion radius and velocity will the rockets have?
4) What velocity and flight time will they have?
5) What bonuses will the bomber get?
6) Are these the same as the new assault missiles which are in development, or are they an entirely new bomber-only weapon? Can they be fitted on other ships, and if so, with what fitting requirements?
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As for bombers, the solution is to fix their stealth. Real-world stealth bombers aren't heavy anti-ship aircraft, they're designed to hit strategic targets. But EVE's can't accomplish that goal, as their inability to warp while cloaked and presence in local chat kill their stealth. They can't sneak through enemy territory to hit miners/transports/etc, because they'll be dead at the first gatecamp they run into.
Solution:
1) FIX THE GRID/CPU. Cruise launcher fitting requirements were increased to balance battleships, without fixing their fitting on bombers. So now you have ships that NEED a MAPC just for the most basic setup, and are insanely tight in general.
2) Fix the warp distance. They're frigates, but they can't fill the long-range fire support role in frigate gangs until they can keep up with the gang in warp. The slow warp speed and high cap use mean they'll be taking multiple jumps while the rest of the group is already in the next system. And this isn't even a controversial thing, the crippled warp range isn't a balance factor, it's just something that annoys a lot of pilots.
Those two are the easy ones, I don't think anyone can make a legitimate protest against them. The next two, however...
1) REMOVE CLOAKED SHIPS FROM LOCAL. It's just absolutely stupid how this works, you're hidden completely... except for broadcasting your presence so people can chat with you about the latest baseball game. With cloaked ships out of local, a bomber squadron could actually engage a target without them logging off at the first sight of hostiles in local.
2) Give stealth bombers covert ops cloaks, but not with enough CPU available to fit both cruise launchers and scan probes. They need to get to a target undetected, and the delay between appearing on overview and the first missiles hitting is enough for an alert pilot to just warp out.
3) Since that would harm the role of covert ops ships, give them an extra bonus. Either the ability to target while cloaked and activate scanning modules, or the ability to launch cloaked scan probes while cloaked. Either one would be a priceless intelligence-gathering bonus that would keep covert ops frigates a useful ship.
Once those changes are made, we can see what might need to be done about damage/etc.
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Lord Azraiel
Minmatar
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.15 17:38:00 -
[21]
I feel that the SB isnt really a covert ops ship because it lacks the ability to fit the covert ops cloak. I agree with that aspect. Locking while cloaked I like, but I dont see that happening really. Though its not to much of a bother to uncloak and lock. I think your on scanner for 1.5 sec before you can lock. Another thing that bothers me about the SB is it horrible scan radius before you even put the cloak on. It's scan radius is worse than its tech 1 counterpart. I have to fit multiple sensor bootser 2's to even get close to an interceptor's or AF's locking time. All in all there fun ships to fly, but they do need a little love.
"I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!" |
Foulis
Minmatar
Chosen Path
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Posted - 2006.08.15 18:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Benco97
Originally by: Lickity Split
the gall, amarr, and min all need either another launcher or some good bonus to bring them on par with the caldari one.
I agree about the mass reductions but I think the Caldari one should be the only one with three launchers because to be fair they ARE missile specialists (even if I don't like them) I'm really quite happy with my hound I just think they could all do with a mass change.
Improving them other than that is a debate for another thread frankly ;p
I aggree, I find the damage from the hound is better than the manticore because of it's stat advantages.
Also, FFS GIVE THEM LONGER WARP RANGE.
----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Cathath > Imaran - Cathath
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Thician Sinner
Caldari
Templar Republic
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Posted - 2006.08.15 19:21:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Thician Sinner on 15/08/2006 19:22:54
_______________________________________________
Wake Up An Smell Your Bloodline.
Fool be The Caldari least prepared for War. |
Thician Sinner
Caldari
Templar Republic
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Posted - 2006.08.15 19:22:00 -
[24]
Yes the bombers are slow and slugish...but putting a gun on a bomber kinda defeats the purpose of it being a bomber then doesn't it...there is alot of ships in this game that could do with a tweak here and a tweak there..but whining that cald's get the best ship don't make anything right..Gallente get the best drone bays..each race gets the best of something...plus the world isn't fair get over it..and if you've ever flown the manti is beyond a pain in the arse to fit without a ton of isk..
_______________________________________________
Wake Up An Smell Your Bloodline.
Fool be The Caldari least prepared for War. |
Taurgil
Balanced Unity
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Posted - 2006.08.15 22:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Benco97
Originally by: Lickity Split
the gall, amarr, and min all need either another launcher or some good bonus to bring them on par with the caldari one.
I agree about the mass reductions but I think the Caldari one should be the only one with three launchers because to be fair they ARE missile specialists (even if I don't like them) I'm really quite happy with my hound I just think they could all do with a mass change.
Improving them other than that is a debate for another thread frankly ;p
This argument is flawed. Anyway, Caldari (as the missile experts) should get a missile bonus (at least as long the gall carrier has a drone bonus), but not an additional launcher. Now, everyone (except an i***t) spends the few days (9?) and trains up Caldari Frig V and buys a manticore and this cannot be the intent  of inventing 4 bombers.
CCP: Fix this.
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Auldare
S.A.S
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Posted - 2006.08.16 00:13:00 -
[26]
I dont think the weight of the bombers is the problem, as far as i can see they are meant to be used as point defense of a particular area, all slow cant warp cloaked etc. the main problem is there are other ships that can do this more effectively.
Maybe an idea is to have a special type of low r.o.f bomb, torpedo which moves slowly and has a build up timer when near target before it explodes. warping out or jumping trough a gate stops it. When the bomb/torp goes off it hurts big time, i mean BIG time.
This will make the stealth bomber a more psychological weapon used in defense. but hey its only an idea, i know people will hate it
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