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Fley Allstar
Amarr
M. Corp Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.16 09:36:00 -
[1]
Hi folks,
I'm training for amarr frig V now (FINALLY) and was just wondering which of these 2 assault frigs would be better for pve and pvp in general.
Any thots from those amarrian AF pilots out there?
Cheers,
Fley
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Evelyn Lavi
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Posted - 2006.08.16 09:45:00 -
[2]
My alt is just about to achieve the same thing, and I'd love to get some insights.
The Vengeance looks undisputably cooler, and the Retribution has that "one medium slot" issue that really, really sucks. Yet the Retribution seems to have a lot more armor, lower signature, higher speed...
It's as if CCP wants people to choose between the "meh" yellow-and-red uber T2s, or the "cool but crappy" black Khanid ships.
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Turiya Flesharrower
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.16 09:58:00 -
[3]
Amarrian Assault Frigates are not generally used in solo PvP, so the single mid-slot of the Retribution is a little more forgivable when it's in a gang support role. On the other hand, the Vengeance's extra mids mean extra tackling power whoch can be quite handy. For PvP in general, both ships are competant; the Retribution puts out more raw damage and can sustain more but the Vengeance is more versatile. For PvE, however, the Retribution is king due to its zero ammo needs and insane tanking abilities. It basically comes down to personal preference and scenario.
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Antodias
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.16 09:58:00 -
[4]
Basically:
Retribution = PvE Pwnage
Vengeance = PvP Pwnage
The Retribution can tank NPCs well due to it's low slots and high damage output, but can't do much in solo PvP due to it's horrible tackling ability. It can however, work as a PvP damage dealer if the target is pinned down by a tackler.
The Vengeance is good for solo PvP and pirating because of it's midslots and excellent tackling ability, and nowadays it can do quite a bit of damage aswell.
I'd get them both eventually tbh, because they work so well in very different roles.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.08.16 10:07:00 -
[5]
Anyone who thinks the 1 med slot on the retribution limits it's abilities in pvp are simply wrong. Yes you will have have problems pvping solo but that's true of most ships anyway in one respect or another.
The vengeance is an ok frigate, I havn't flown it recently since it had its bonuses changed however overall I still feel the retribution is the better of the 2 simply becuase of the raw damage you can get out of it.
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
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Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.08.16 10:13:00 -
[6]
I dont fly these two often (tbh not at all), but i played a bit in the Fitting Screens and had some training against other Dudes.
Vengeance is a Ishkur without Drones, fact. Just ignore it, its fitting is a nightmare if you want anything exceptionally cool or out of the box, it just doesnt fit. The only workable setup is Closerange Takler with decent tank and damage. You will loose to a standard crow. You will win vs most close range ceptors and Caldari AFs if you up your resis and use nos or rockets because EM/Therm on frigs plain sucks. Use only "Stay at Range" when using T2 Ammo, because orbiting fast will screw your tracking and get you killed.
The Retribution is better at not sucking so much. It can field better Guns and Tank but is stuck with EM/Therm, has a useless Higslot and only one med slot so its the most annoying thing to choose what you want there. It will probably win vs other Frig Class Ships because it both outtanks and outdmg them, but only if you can convince them to kindly stay at your optimal with zero speed.
Both are Gang Ships (Veng gets killed far too easy for solo), both are mediocre at being that. They are not broken or unusuable, i have some decent setups, but:
Ishkur will pwn both  Worst Lineup of the 4 Races by far.
Excuse me, ive to train Gallente Frig 5 now, thx.
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Calisto Cody
Minmatar
The Black Swan Society
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Posted - 2006.08.16 10:35:00 -
[7]
Retri PVE
vengence i have just found, people said it wasnt very good, and even though it has 3 turrets, i can get 2 dmg mods on, never have cap issues generally unless heavily nossed due to its cap 5% cap recharge per lvl, at lvl 4 its like having a free cap charger, at 5 its like 25% cap recharge,. i think its mean tbh
What makes a man?
Is it the woman in his arms?
Just 'cause she has big *******
Or is the way
He fights everyday?
No, it's probably the ******* |
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.16 11:08:00 -
[8]
The Vengeance itself is not such a bad ship anymore after the recent unnerfing, but compared to the Retribution it is still pretty bad.
Especially since despite the Retri having more weapons, more armor, more cap, more grid and MUCH more structure (which is a tremendous bonus if you fit a damage control), it is also faster and weighs less than the Vengeance.
Now if they made the Vengeance fast and light, that might offset the disadvantages, but as it is right now, it is totally inferior to the Retri except in looks and for solo work.
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Ysolde Xen
Minmatar
Liberal Trading Co
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2006.08.16 13:05:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Now if they made the Vengeance fast and light, that might offset the disadvantages, but as it is right now, it is totally inferior to the Retri except in looks and for solo work.
I agree. I recently turned my frigate prowess towards the Amarr AFs and the Vengance surprised me by actually being slower and less agile than the Retribution. I was sure they must have it the wrong way around.
As it is the Vengeance is an utter pig to fit, damage is poor and tank is OK but not as good as the Retri. Despite the 1-mid pullava with the Retri I'd still choose it over the Vengenace for most circumstances. Pity, I was hoping the Vengeance would be more like the Jaguar.
Retri is the bees knees for PvE and provided tackling is not an issue (either not needed or someone else is doing that), it's pretty devastating in PvP.
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It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong. |
Ubad
Minmatar
Mars Security
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Posted - 2006.08.16 14:14:00 -
[10]
I love Amarr AF and spend a lot of time flying them for PvE and missions. I've even managed some of the easier lvl 4 missions in them (Rogue Drones Harasment is great fun, and i've finished off the odd NPC Raven and Apoc in them).
With Advanced weapons upgrade 2 you can fit the following to the Veng :
3 x Medium pulse II
1 x Arbalest rocket launcher
1 x 1mn Ab II
1 x Webber
1 x Named cap recharger
1 x CPR
2 x Heat sink II
1 x SAM II
If you need some thermal resistance swap a HS II for a passive hardener.
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inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.16 14:24:00 -
[11]
I'd rather be in a Malediction for PvP. Well, actually I'd rather be in another race's interceptor for PvP but that's a different story. 
The Vengeance is so fat and slow - or nigh impossible to fit with an MWD bolted on - that I can usually do more in a T1 cruiser. The Retribution isn't a bad choice for PvE if you're fighting NPCs with favourable resists, though.
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Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.08.16 14:37:00 -
[12]
Both suck.
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Savion Mercarte
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Posted - 2006.08.16 14:52:00 -
[13]
Retribution is good for PvE missions and solo ratting because it can tank decently while putting out some good damage. It's not for solo PvP, but gang PvP yes if someone else tackles.
Vengeance is just a bad ship, plain and simple. If you want to do DPS pick Retribution, or something larger. If you want to tackle, you might as well get a Malediction or Taranis.
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Laythun
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.08.16 14:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Perry
stuff
I suggest u fly them before u comment...
Anywho..As wild rho said,
Retribution > vengence for both pvp and pve.
the single med slot is a pain in the ass but this is easily solved by a mate in a ceptor. the vengence isnt that hard to fit, but its a pain to get the most from it, whereas (should u ignore the 5th utility high) the retribution is a joy to fit and fly (especially with mwd II  )
See You In Space Cowboy |
Calisto Cody
Minmatar
The Black Swan Society
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Posted - 2006.08.16 15:05:00 -
[15]
i just bought 4 vengence, still cant sell the retri :X
What makes a man?
Is it the woman in his arms?
Just 'cause she has big *******
Or is the way
He fights everyday?
No, it's probably the ******* |
Kalek Astroth
Amarr
The Electrocuted
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:44:00 -
[16]
retri is a good choice in small af gang , carryng out the same firepower of a t1 cruiser with better mobility
veng is the af i actualy fly , its a nice ship i use it as a fat and tanked ceptor , its also very effective against caldari stuff ...
for all the amar frigs advanced weap upgr is a must as well af at least at 4 and t2 weap ... if not is better to fly a t1 cruiser in pvp
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